HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 7/3) *Part IV*

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-17-2013, 09:17 AM
  #76
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Stepan is an elite defensive centerman. According to defensive Goals vs. Threshold, he had the best rating amongst forwards. Ahead of Selke candidates Datsyuk, Bergeron and Toews. If OL is that good defensively already, then what are we waiting for? He can nicely slot up in Beaver's spot.
I'm really curious, what's goals vs threshold and how is it calculated? I know he was #1 Goals for percentage, that doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
05-17-2013, 10:28 AM
  #77
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,602
vCash: 50
Awards:
Jyri Niemi signed with HPK in Finland.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
05-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #78
Punxrocknyc19*
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Jyri Niemi signed with HPK in Finland.
useless... there is no point of having these type of players in the AHL if they have no chance to play in the NHL.... and this was a waste of a contract spot...

Punxrocknyc19* is offline  
Old
05-17-2013, 10:20 PM
  #79
17futurecap
Registered User
 
17futurecap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 7,151
vCash: 500
Just looked at the box score for the first game of the Memorial Cup, London won 3-2 over Saskatoon.

Josh Nicholls had both goals for Saskatoon.

17futurecap is offline  
Old
05-17-2013, 10:22 PM
  #80
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,499
vCash: 500
Anybody know what's up with the Memorial Cup? It's usually shown on NHL network. They've stopped showing the whole tourney and just select games recently but I haven't heard anything about this year.

Championship* is offline  
Old
05-17-2013, 10:32 PM
  #81
White Plains Batman
Faceoffs? Faceoffs!!
 
White Plains Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,893
vCash: 500
Good to hear that Lindberg is contributing and getting playing time with Sweden. The more experience, the better.

It would be nice if he can come over and practice with the taxi squad, but it seems that they sent most of those guys home.

Going to be a very interesting offseason. Too many bodies like Powe, Pyatt, Dorsett, Asham, Clowe(?) and then of the rookies you have Miller, Kreider, Lindberg, Fast, Thomas, MSC, Hrivik, and Nicholls all fighting for spots.

It would appear the main two American kids and the two Swedes would be the front runners even if Bradley is bought out and some guy like Filpulla or Bozak is added. Torts is about adding kids and if Lindberg can play good defense and win faceoffs, he might be an asset too valuable to not keep on the big club.

White Plains Batman is offline  
Old
05-17-2013, 11:37 PM
  #82
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Lindberg, defensively was pretty much ready for the NHL last year. He has been in a defensive role for years in the SEL and has honed his craft. If I had to compare his STYLE of play, it would be Patrice Bergeron or Ryan O'Reilly like. Very good positioning. Strong on his skates for his size. Good on face-offs. Has tons of take-aways and makes a ton of little plays all over the ice.

Defense and faceoffs will not be a problem for OL. I am hoping his offense transitions to the smaller ice surface (I think it will) as he has 40-50 point upside to him which would be HUGE for a player who can be a top PKer, take important faceoffs and be a very good defensive center.
Bergeron is a tier above ROR and I don't think OL could reach that level. ROR is good for his peak, as you said.

Realistically, hopefully he plays a lot like Marcus Kruger of the Blackhawks. He's been bounced from lines 1-4 so far with the Hawks and has defined a role as a 4th line PK specialist and a very damn good one at the PK. As long as the defense comes, I have little doubt that he'll be a key player for the team down the road.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
05-17-2013, 11:40 PM
  #83
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I'm really curious, what's goals vs threshold and how is it calculated? I know he was #1 Goals for percentage, that doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about.
http://snyrangersblog.com/advanced-s...sus-threshold/

Kershaw is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 05:46 AM
  #84
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Bergeron is a tier above ROR and I don't think OL could reach that level. ROR is good for his peak, as you said.

Realistically, hopefully he plays a lot like Marcus Kruger of the Blackhawks. He's been bounced from lines 1-4 so far with the Hawks and has defined a role as a 4th line PK specialist and a very damn good one at the PK. As long as the defense comes, I have little doubt that he'll be a key player for the team down the road.
Lindberg is a lot more physical than Krüger though.

I've not watched him in the NHL, but in Sweden Krüger was a cerebral finesse player. Good defensively due to his IQ, racked up tons of assists, and hardly ever scored a goal. Lindberg is more in the ROR mould IMO if we are comparing playing styles.

I've been impressed by Krüger's transformation to defensive specialist, since I very much doubted that a small Swedish finesse center would stick as a bottom-6:er in the NHL.

But I agree that a Krüger-like impact is a realistic target. But Lindberg is more proven than Krüger was when he came over, so I'd say his ceiling as an NHL player is higher.

Blue Blooded is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 07:07 AM
  #85
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
A couple of things:

1) It takes into account offensive and shootout contributions too. Why are you using it to make the case for his defense? Maybe he's the best 2 way forward, not necessarily defensive forward (goals for percentage really show you may be right, it's a measure how good of a two way forward you are).

2) I don't like that shootouts are included. I'm sorry that has nothing to do with how good of a player you are. There are some scrubs that are great at the shootout (Sjostrom) and some great players that are awful at it (Jagr). Plus there's no shootout in the NHL.

3) Seems like there are A LOT of factors. When that happens it reduces the margin for error significantly. Especially if those factors are very specific. That's what I like about the goals for percentage. There are only 2 factors that are straight forward. Once you add factors and make them more specific and obscure, you're increasing the possibility of whacky stats that don't have great correlation to what you're looking for.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
05-18-2013, 07:18 AM
  #86
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Can someone break down Lindberg's offense? Shot, passing, vision, stickhandling?

I feel like this year we have had a deficit of defensive forwards. Last year we had a surplus of guys that brought defense and nothing else. Any chance Lindberg is a more offensively talented Boyle next year? Boyle has been very good in these playoffs but most of the season he's been bringing his line down. If we can get a Boyle like player that is not a black hole offensively and makes our 3rd line some sort of scoring threat that would be great.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:59 AM
  #87
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
A couple of things:

1) It takes into account offensive and shootout contributions too. Why are you using it to make the case for his defense? Maybe he's the best 2 way forward, not necessarily defensive forward (goals for percentage really show you may be right, it's a measure how good of a two way forward you are).

2) I don't like that shootouts are included. I'm sorry that has nothing to do with how good of a player you are. There are some scrubs that are great at the shootout (Sjostrom) and some great players that are awful at it (Jagr). Plus there's no shootout in the NHL.

3) Seems like there are A LOT of factors. When that happens it reduces the margin for error significantly. Especially if those factors are very specific. That's what I like about the goals for percentage. There are only 2 factors that are straight forward. Once you add factors and make them more specific and obscure, you're increasing the possibility of whacky stats that don't have great correlation to what you're looking for.
GVT for skaters is split up into OGVT, DGVT, and SGVT which represents the player's contributions offensively, defensively, and in the shootout. These are added together to measure a players all-round contributions; GVT.

Stepan led all forwards in DGVT. Bergeron led all forwards in DGVT/G. Stepan was 6th overall in GVT behind Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, P. Kane, and Kunitz.

Lindberg played well today in Sweden's win against Finland. Got kudos from the Swedish commentators who brought up how he has grown during the tournament. Mĺrts put him out for key defensive draws.

Blue Blooded is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 12:34 PM
  #88
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
GVT for skaters is split up into OGVT, DGVT, and SGVT which represents the player's contributions offensively, defensively, and in the shootout. These are added together to measure a players all-round contributions; GVT.

Stepan led all forwards in DGVT. Bergeron led all forwards in DGVT/G. Stepan was 6th overall in GVT behind Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, P. Kane, and Kunitz.

Lindberg played well today in Sweden's win against Finland. Got kudos from the Swedish commentators who brought up how he has grown during the tournament. Mĺrts put him out for key defensive draws.
This is my point with these stats. You get good not great players on great teams ranked highly.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
05-18-2013, 04:06 PM
  #89
Green Blob*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,257
vCash: 500
Does Josh Nicholls have any real legit chance to be an NHL player some day? Hes got decent size, and was 3rd in the WHL in goals this season (tho he was an overage player).

Green Blob* is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 05:05 PM
  #90
LetterJ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 887
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Does Josh Nicholls have any real legit chance to be an NHL player some day? Hes got decent size, and was 3rd in the WHL in goals this season (tho he was an overage player).
Nicholls scored two goals last night during the opening game of the Memorial Cup against London.

I just finished watching the game, and he was the Blades best offensive player (G Makarov stood on his head), IMO. Nicholls was interviewed just before the start of the third period. He interviewed well, and seems to be the leader of the Blades (though that should probably be expected as he's an overager). After the interview, the announcers commented that the Leafs (who drafted him in 2010) wanted Nicholls to buy into a nutrition and exercise regime, and that he did not buy in. It was for that reason that the Leafs did not sign him. The announcers further said that since the Rangers signed him, he has realized the importance of a regime to a pro athlete.

As you stated, he has decent size (6'2, 196 lbs). On the first goal, Nicholls started the cycle behind the net. And then wrapped around and, on a nice feed across the goal line from Ferland, buried the puck into a basically empty net. On his second goal, Nicholls broke in, created a scoring opportunity, and then out muscled Pitt D prospect Scott Harrington for the rebound and whacked the puck into the back of the net. The announcers said that the Blades as a team bought into a workout regime during their 51 days off between their elimination in the first round of the WHL playoffs and their starting game as the host team of the Memorial Cup and that had they not done so, Nicholls would not have scored the goal. (The second goal is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TURq2ACXgw)

Here's a little more about the game:
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/sports...843/story.html

I'll leave it to someone else to project whether he'll turn out to be an NHL player or not.

On another note, I thought Shane McColgan was pretty invisible, and then he got hammered on a shoulder-to-shoulder hit by Max Domi behind the net.


Last edited by LetterJ: 05-18-2013 at 05:37 PM.
LetterJ is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:48 PM
  #91
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Lindberg is a lot more physical than Krüger though.

I've not watched him in the NHL, but in Sweden Krüger was a cerebral finesse player. Good defensively due to his IQ, racked up tons of assists, and hardly ever scored a goal. Lindberg is more in the ROR mould IMO if we are comparing playing styles.

I've been impressed by Krüger's transformation to defensive specialist, since I very much doubted that a small Swedish finesse center would stick as a bottom-6:er in the NHL.

But I agree that a Krüger-like impact is a realistic target. But Lindberg is more proven than Krüger was when he came over, so I'd say his ceiling as an NHL player is higher.
Thanks for the info, I'll take your word for it as you constantly watch these players play. To be compared to ROR is certainly encouraging.

Can't wait to see him in Gold Medal game.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:49 PM
  #92
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
This is my point with these stats. You get good not great players on great teams ranked highly.
There is a myth that Kunitz is an average player.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:50 PM
  #93
3rd Guy High
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
vCash: 500
Anyone know if the Gold Medal game will be broadcasted in the US?

3rd Guy High is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 12:02 AM
  #94
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
There is a myth that Kunitz is an average player.
I don't think he's a top player in the league.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
05-19-2013, 12:07 AM
  #95
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I don't think he's a top player in the league.
But he was this past season.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 12:24 AM
  #96
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
But he was this past season.
Because he played with talent. If he played on the Rangers you wouldn't think so. Sorry, but this stat is too dependent on the talent around him it seems.

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Old
05-19-2013, 10:25 AM
  #97
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
There is a myth that Kunitz is an average player.
That's not a Myth. Guy was lost when Crosby went down.

Championship* is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 11:28 AM
  #98
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Thanks for the info, I'll take your word for it as you constantly watch these players play. To be compared to ROR is certainly encouraging.

Can't wait to see him in Gold Medal game.
I don't actually, mostly in WJC's and WCH's. But my friend has worked as a statistics counter for Djurgĺrden, so he has a lot of info regarding DIF players (like Krüger). But Lindberg is grittier and more 'forceful' in his play, while Krüger is basically all smarts; he is neither big nor a good skater, a hockey genius without physical gifts.

So Lindberg is closer to ROR in playing style than to Krüger was all I meant.

Blue Blooded is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 12:25 PM
  #99
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Because he played with talent. If he played on the Rangers you wouldn't think so. Sorry, but this stat is too dependent on the talent around him it seems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Championship View Post
That's not a Myth. Guy was lost when Crosby went down.
He had 8 pts in 12 GP after Crosby went down. He had higher PPG than Malkin, Iginla, Neal, etc. Penguins 2nd best forward this year.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
05-19-2013, 01:04 PM
  #100
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
SnowblindNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 20,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
He had 8 pts in 12 GP after Crosby went down. He had higher PPG than Malkin, Iginla, Neal, etc. Penguins 2nd best forward this year.
12 games is a pretty small sample and .75 PPG does not a top player in the league make. Still a lot of talent on the team without Crosby. Did he play on the PP? I'm not saying he's not good, I'm saying he's not so good that he's top 5 in a category measuring offense and defense. I'm sure there are plenty of better players that play on worse teams. (Though, that will always be the case with these stats).

SnowblindNYR is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.