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Kulemin was one of the best defensive forwards in hockey.

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Old
05-16-2013, 05:40 PM
  #26
agropop
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He's a gem.

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05-16-2013, 05:57 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Decent 3rd liner, PK guy. I'm not really a huge fan.
Elite 3rd liner.

I still think he can be a good top 6 pwf, he showed us that one season he has the offensive potential.

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05-16-2013, 06:10 PM
  #28
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He pissed me off when Bergeron got the shot through.

Good player but needs to learn to sacrifice his body. The way he blocks a **** from the point pisses me off. A stick on the ice, get as thin as possible.

Though I will admit he the best defensive winger we have and is a keeper. The way he knocks Lucic off the puck is amazing. He does need to improve on his coverage.
To be fair, he led the team and was top ten in the NHL in shot blocking. He had a huge block in the dying seconds of game six when he cleared the zone.

That said, I agree - he needs to work on his coverage.

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05-16-2013, 06:19 PM
  #29
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Also I don't know if it's just me but Kulemin is the one player on the Leafs that gets none, zero credit from the more casual fanbase. I watched with a lot of different people during the playoffs and most people were under the impression that Kulemin has little value to the team and brings nothing at all. No other player on the team was as overlooked as him. People around me would praise Komarov, praise Orr, praise McClement but when it got to Kulemin, people would just sour.

I have no idea why.

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05-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
Also I don't know if it's just me but Kulemin is the one player on the Leafs that gets none, zero credit from the more casual fanbase. I watched with a lot of different people during the playoffs and most people were under the impression that Kulemin has little value to the team and brings nothing at all. No other player on the team was as overlooked as him. People around me would praise Komarov, praise Orr, praise McClement but when it got to Kulemin, people would just sour.

I have no idea why.

Maybe because he's so quiet with what he does.
I mean if you really break it down.
Komarov - super pest, hits people
McClement: PPK hero.
Orr: the fighter.

Kulemin does his job super quietly too. He didn't score a lot this year, so that could be a reason too.

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05-17-2013, 02:14 PM
  #31
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It would be a huge mistake to let this guy go. Perfect 3rd liner able to fill in on the top 6.

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05-17-2013, 02:38 PM
  #32
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People get on him is the same as why devils fans get on clarkson. In the back of everyones mind they still holds him to the 30 goal kulemin, hoping for a bounce back.

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05-17-2013, 04:06 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BeLeaf1331 View Post
People get on him is the same as why devils fans get on clarkson. In the back of everyones mind they still holds him to the 30 goal kulemin, hoping for a bounce back.
The Devils won't be on Clarkson when:

a) He signs with another team and becomes a hugely valuable player for them again.

Or

b) Becomes yet another extremely overpaid flop of a free agent.

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05-17-2013, 05:26 PM
  #34
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He's a dumb defensive player. He works hard and grinds well but he makes a lot of defensive mistakes relating to coverage. He doesn't have a good idea when to attack or contain and he gets caught pick watching on a regular basis. His defensive value is hounding the puck carrier, so it's tough to say he's one of the leagues best defensive players. I wouldn't even say he was the best defensive player on the Leafs.
Somewhat agree.

He is one of the best defensive players on the Leafs because he's one of the best all around players on the Leafs.

His forte is not being a defensive player, but when he is better than everyone else they have available he'll take one for the team and do the job.

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05-17-2013, 05:38 PM
  #35
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Maybe he's one of the best defensive players on the Leafs, but that's not saying much, and their stats vs Boston are pretty bad, -9 for Kulemin and -10 for Grabo.
Like the guy, but he better not ask for a raise next time his contract is up.

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05-17-2013, 06:41 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by gordonshumway View Post
Maybe he's one of the best defensive players on the Leafs, but that's not saying much, and their stats vs Boston are pretty bad, -9 for Kulemin and -10 for Grabo.
Like the guy, but he better not ask for a raise next time his contract is up.
I'd like to see him traded.

Pittsburgh might have some interest.

Option is Detroit to play with Datsyuk.

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05-17-2013, 07:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by gordonshumway View Post
Maybe he's one of the best defensive players on the Leafs, but that's not saying much, and their stats vs Boston are pretty bad, -9 for Kulemin and -10 for Grabo.
Like the guy, but he better not ask for a raise next time his contract is up.
Do you really expect checking forwards to be plus players?

When Kulemin and Grabo are sent out on one of their usual defensive zone face offs vs the other teams top line what is a reasonable expectation? To me, a good 45 second shift would include winning possession, making a successful zone entry, and setting up an offensive zone face off for Kadri or Bozak to take, all while burning up an opposing top line shift. They get easier minutes and the ozone face off, the checkers do the heavy lifting.

Or, do we actually expect our checkers to out score the oppositions top line at evens while always starting about 150 feet away from any viable shooting position?

Interesting stat, McClements shot differential is better starting in the defensive zone with Grabovski than it is starting in the offensive zone with Orr and Fraser Mc.

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05-17-2013, 08:01 PM
  #38
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by agropop View Post
Do you really expect checking forwards to be plus players?

When Kulemin and Grabo are sent out on one of their usual defensive zone face offs vs the other teams top line what is a reasonable expectation? To me, a good 45 second shift would include winning possession, making a successful zone entry, and setting up an offensive zone face off for Kadri or Bozak to take, all while burning up an opposing top line shift. They get easier minutes and the ozone face off, the checkers do the heavy lifting.

Or, do we actually expect our checkers to out score the oppositions top line at evens while always starting about 150 feet away from any viable shooting position?

Interesting stat, McClements shot differential is better starting in the defensive zone with Grabovski than it is starting in the offensive zone with Orr and Fraser Mc.
I don't blame a player for playing a role he is less suited for than another role because the team management has failed to competently provide players more suited for the role.

If you are good enough to play the secondary role until management does their job and brings in the talent to handle those roles.

Funny, some people don't understand how the lack of depth forces players into less optimal situations, and if they are good enough they take that role and run with it, and easier jobs get high praise from shallow fans not seeing the difference.

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05-17-2013, 08:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I don't blame a player for playing a role he is less suited for than another role because the team management has failed to competently provide players more suited for the role.

If you are good enough to play the secondary role until management does their job and brings in the talent to handle those roles.

Funny, some people don't understand how the lack of depth forces players into less optimal situations, and if they are good enough they take that role and run with it, and easier jobs get high praise from shallow fans not seeing the difference.
Grabovski's new 'role' is really about accommodating Kadri. It's not Grabo's fault or decision to be utilized this way, he has, however acquitted himself quite well. Kadri's meatball minutes and qualcomp earlier this season were made possible by Grabo's heavy lifting.

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05-17-2013, 08:17 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by agropop View Post
Grabovski's new 'role' is really about accommodating Kadri. It's not Grabo's fault or decision to be utilized this way, he has, however acquitted himself quite well. Kadri's meatball minutes and qualcomp earlier this season were made possible by Grabo's heavy lifting.
Yep, give a player a majority of easy, safe, starts and you should expect him to look better on the surface.

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05-17-2013, 08:54 PM
  #41
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Kulemin is clearly a top six forward. He has shown that he can do work in the offensive zone. On the other hand, checking forwards don't have the attributes to work in the opposition zone.

More importantly, Randy isn't fielding two checking lines. Kulemin is either going to support Kadri on the depth scoring line or be used on a shut down line. The latter isn't a cross checking line, but a variation of a top six line.

First line
Shut down line
Depth scoring line
Checking/ Energy line

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05-17-2013, 10:31 PM
  #42
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Kulemin is awesome, a great defensive player. IMO he is an elite 3rd liner that can slot up into a top 6 spot. Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin was a pretty good line because Lupul isn't great defensively and Kulemin did all the board work and defensive players to keep them afloat.

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05-17-2013, 10:37 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Yep, give a player a majority of easy, safe, starts and you should expect him to look better on the surface.
I thought the Grabo-JVR-Kulemin line was fantastic against Boston. Had the offensive drive, gained the zone, changed momentum, and used their speed well to keep the Bruins on their heels.

In an offensive role, Grabo had a new mentality, and new spark to his game.

Kulemin was awesome MOST of the PO's.

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05-17-2013, 10:44 PM
  #44
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Do not trade Kulemin!

This guy is a key piece to a cup one day. Yes I believe that. Him and Mcclement go nowhere.

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05-17-2013, 11:43 PM
  #45
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You guys are delusional he's a decent player but not a core piece I'd trade him for a pick and a prospect any day

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05-18-2013, 12:55 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by tooncesmeow View Post
Kulemin - xx - Frattin is going to be a good line. You need to get a 3C that can play the PK and win faceoffs though.
Uhhh... Jay Mcclement? Tyler Bozak?

re: Jay Mcclement - This guy is to good to play on the 4th line. He's not just a PK specialist the guy can flat out play and cycle the puck in the offensive zone. Kulemin - Mcclement - Komorav would be beastly checking line that would shut down any line... If you want more offence subsitute Komorav with Mac or Frattin.

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05-18-2013, 12:56 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by InNonisWeTrust View Post
You guys are delusional he's a decent player but not a core piece I'd trade him for a pick and a prospect any day
you're hilarious thank god you are not running the leafs

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05-18-2013, 01:20 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by InNonisWeTrust View Post
You guys are delusional he's a decent player but not a core piece I'd trade him for a pick and a prospect any day
I agree with you except for the fact he's worth more than a prospect.



I am not sure why people are in love with him, maybe because he once scored 30 goals. I remember back in the day people couldn't stop talking about Leeman or Marois because of their one season of success.

Frattin can easily fill his role. He doesn't bring anything special. We have plenty of players like him.

It's very clear we need a center. He's a good piece to get us that

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05-18-2013, 03:17 AM
  #49
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Kulemin would be producing 30 goals if he wasn't employed in a shut down role. Most coaches aren't as orthodox as Carlyle and would use a more run and gun format. We'd probably spend a lot more time in the opposition zone as well.

With that in mind, I don't think we have any forward that could be used against top lines and produce. The Crosby, Giroux, Lecavalier, etc are not that common. We could use Colborne in that role and see if he can produce consistently. He'll have to be better supported, though.

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel ( top scoring line)
JVR - Colborne - Frattin ( shut down line)
Grabs - Kadri - Kulemin (depth scoring line)
Komarov - McClement - Orr ( Checking/ Energy line)

I'm starting to lean towards acquiring Clarkson. He's not physical, but a two-way forward. Slot him on the shut down line and see if that line can produce at top six levels.

We could have Colborne's line against the top scoring line. Kessel's line against the shut down line, while Kadri could be up against the depth scoring line. We're going to be pretty difficult to match up with if we can pull it off.

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05-18-2013, 03:59 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Uhhh... Jay Mcclement? Tyler Bozak?

re: Jay Mcclement - This guy is to good to play on the 4th line. He's not just a PK specialist the guy can flat out play and cycle the puck in the offensive zone. Kulemin - Mcclement - Komorav would be beastly checking line that would shut down any line... If you want more offence subsitute Komorav with Mac or Frattin.
McClement isn't really used in a shut down role. More effective in a 1-2-2, while Grabovski/ Kulemin could be deployed in a 2-1-2 format, and Grabovski in the middle could keep the opposition's top line locked into their zone. This is why Grabs/ Kulemin are so heavily utilized.

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