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Claude Julien: The Sequel

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Old
05-18-2013, 07:24 AM
  #51
BlueAndGold
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Everyone loves a complete hockey player. Bergeron comes to mind on the current Bruins roster as the team's most complete player. He's been my favorite for years for this reason.

Is it unreasonable to apply the same logic for coaches? Are the best hockey coaches "complete coaches?" That is the coaches who excel at coaching all aspects of the game, offense, defense, transition. It's pretty clear that we don't have that with Julien. We have a guy who is fixated on one area of the game, rather than taking a balanced approach.

I honestly believe Julien would feel better about losing 1-0 than winning 6-5. A 6-5 win to him represents failure in his system rather than getting two points in the standings.

The Julien supporters will counter that Bruins have been successful with him as coach. I'll counter that there is still too much untapped potential with this roster that better coaches would be able to utilize. The Bruins don't get the most from their player assets.


Last edited by BlueAndGold: 05-18-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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05-18-2013, 07:33 AM
  #52
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I don't think Peter is married to Claude but I think he might be at this time because it would be an outright joke to get rid of him now. Ofcourse all coaches have to go at sometime but we are nowhere near that time yet. I do think Neely would be quick on the trigger but if we do lose this duo watch this team start to go down hill. I cant say I love everything he does but a-that's pretty well impossible and b-he turns out right far more than I ever am. To question his various records here is a COMPLETE JOKE. His system is bad you guys say yet he has had the best 5 on 5 team in general over the last few years. Complaint number 2 he doesnt win the cup or make a long run every year----PLEASE TELL ME WHICH TEAM DOES. I for one love a team who is always very competitive and a contender if you guys don't just get rid of these two guys and let Cam ride the bus. Make no mistake Peter and Claude turned us from losers to what we are today not Cam.

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05-18-2013, 07:47 AM
  #53
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05-18-2013, 07:59 AM
  #54
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So lets sum it up we spend year after year near the bottom of the league never even sniffing the playoffs. We bring in Peter and then Claude . We start to win very quickly edging in to the playoffs and competing with the number 1 seed. We keep rising to where we are near the top every year and very competitive with the big boys. The coach also just happens to be full of class loves the city and a great representative of the team and city. LETS FIRE HIM

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05-18-2013, 08:11 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Yeti34 View Post
Same thing was said in MTL when he had Markov and Streit two of the best PMD in the game at the time.
by Kovalev, hardly the guy I go to for a legit beef

See Bill`s post for the reason why Julien uses this D to D system.

For years now, the players he has back there have limited mobility, and due to that there are limited options when it comes to which/what kind of system he can use.

You can`t ask/expect a Ference for example to be consistently playing a PMD style when that isn`t within his skill set. This has been an average at best D core when talking about foot speed. The cliche states that speed kills, and it says that for a reason.

Julien, forced due to injury to use all 3 of the kids was then able to use their skill set to his and the Bruins advantage. Not sure that we the fans, nor the Bruins/Rags could have seen that coming with all 3 of them pushing that puck up ice after consistently quick retrievals.

Julien hasn`t had the horses to play up tempo hockey, I don`t give a rat`s behind what he did elsewhere, truth be told, the Wings have long played the D to D game, and that was with HOF`er Lidstrom

There are times I pull my hair out as I watch yet another pass between the D, but I also understand the purpose of it. Merely 1 game, and it`s not time to make any proclamations about the game 1 rooks yet, but man was it fun to watch a completely different skill set back there

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05-18-2013, 08:32 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
July 2012

" core components of the critical mass" referring to CJ, hey fans, how boutcha get used to him, he`s going nowhere and this team has had far worse

Anyone here could look at who they view as their top 5 coaches, then go to that teams site, you`ll read almost the exact same posts from their fan base about that coaches in game/personel/systems

EVERY coach believes their system and playing within it is the way to win, some adjust quicker than others, but there isn`t a coach out there IMO, who is heads and shoulders above making adjustments in comparison to their peers

Have a look at Carlyle alone, absolutely 100% believer in matchups, all the time, well, IMO, that killed him in the end, far too many players sat on the bench as he kept rolling out match up after match up, the Leafs got exhausted

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05-18-2013, 09:14 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by bruins repeat time View Post
So lets sum it up we spend year after year near the bottom of the league never even sniffing the playoffs. We bring in Peter and then Claude . We start to win very quickly edging in to the playoffs and competing with the number 1 seed. We keep rising to where we are near the top every year and very competitive with the big boys. The coach also just happens to be full of class loves the city and a great representative of the team and city. LETS FIRE HIM
Since the 67/68 season the Bruins have missed the playoffs exactly 5 times. Only twice missing them in back to back seasons. That hardly constitutes year after year at the bottom of league.

Look at the rosters. When the Bruins iced a solid squad, they made the playoffs regardless of the bench boss.

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05-18-2013, 09:17 AM
  #58
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I would be more concerned with losing Chiarelli then Clode.

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05-18-2013, 09:53 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BlueAndGold View Post
Everyone loves a complete hockey player. Bergeron comes to mind on the current Bruins roster as the team's most complete player. He's been my favorite for years for this reason.

Is it unreasonable to apply the same logic for coaches? Are the best hockey coaches "complete coaches?" That is the coaches who excel at coaching all aspects of the game, offense, defense, transition. It's pretty clear that we don't have that with Julien. We have a guy who is fixated on one area of the game, rather than taking a balanced approach.

I honestly believe Julien would feel better about losing 1-0 than winning 6-5. A 6-5 win to him represents failure in his system rather than getting two points in the standings.

The Julien supporters will counter that Bruins have been successful with him as coach. I'll counter that there is still too much untapped potential with this roster that better coaches would be able to utilize. The Bruins don't get the most from their player assets.
While I agree that he'd feel better about his team only allowing 1 goal compared to 5, I don't agree at all that he'd prefer to lose than to win.

And since it seems that you're suggesting that Julien doesn't "excel" at coaching offensively, it needs to be stated that the B's have finished in the top 5 three times (and as high as 2nd on two occasions) in the past 5 years. One horrible year, and one mediocre year, but 3 of 5 have been very productive offensively. I agree that they might produce more goals with a different coach & system, but I also think that they'd allow more goals as well, and most likely lose more games than they do with the current coach & system.

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05-18-2013, 10:04 AM
  #60
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
Since the 67/68 season the Bruins have missed the playoffs exactly 5 times. Only twice missing them in back to back seasons. That hardly constitutes year after year at the bottom of league.

Look at the rosters. When the Bruins iced a solid squad, they made the playoffs regardless of the bench boss.
Thanks for stating the facts. Seems that many fans prefer to ignore them or simply make them up to support their arguments.

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05-18-2013, 10:14 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BlueAndGold View Post
Everyone loves a complete hockey player. Bergeron comes to mind on the current Bruins roster as the team's most complete player. He's been my favorite for years for this reason.

Is it unreasonable to apply the same logic for coaches? Are the best hockey coaches "complete coaches?" That is the coaches who excel at coaching all aspects of the game, offense, defense, transition. It's pretty clear that we don't have that with Julien. We have a guy who is fixated on one area of the game, rather than taking a balanced approach.

I honestly believe Julien would feel better about losing 1-0 than winning 6-5. A 6-5 win to him represents failure in his system rather than getting two points in the standings.

The Julien supporters will counter that Bruins have been successful with him as coach. I'll counter that there is still too much untapped potential with this roster that better coaches would be able to utilize. The Bruins don't get the most from their player assets.
Yes.

Nothing personal, but this post seems to lack a basic understanding of the game of hockey at the NHL level. "Complete coach" isn't even a concept that existed before your suggestion. Regardless, I think you have a misguided view of Julien's methods and purpose.

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05-18-2013, 10:23 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
But Julien could have had Hamilton, Bartkowski, and/or Krug in there any time he wanted. As long as he had the option, his preference was for the station-to-station guys. He had Wade Redden in there over Bartkwoski.

He had a (probably) injured Ference running the PP in game 5.

While he did dress Bartkowski in game 5, he barely saw any games action. Are we even talking about Bartkowski - as something more than a defensively-challenged bit player - if Seidenberg doesn't get hurt?

Hard to argue that he is locked into station-to-station by his personnel, when he obviously isn't.
Perhaps that is because he feels those guys are the better defensemen.

But as we've seen from 1 game of Krug and a couple from Bartkowski, he must be mistaken.

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05-18-2013, 10:27 AM
  #63
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His preference was to play the 3 guys who combined for almost 300 career playoff games opposed to the 3 kids who have less than 10.....show me a coach who wouldn`t have done the same if the option was/is there


I love the elements the kids bring, and while the fan in me says keep playing them, the reality is, those 3 will likely be back on the ice. If anything, I`d sit Quaider to make room for one more D with mobility
Well, first of all, McQuaid doesn't have 300 career playoff games. Redden had 29 NHL games (and zero NHL playoff games) in the past three seasons. We're not talking about Ray Bourque and Nick Lidstrom.

Julien had the option of going Hamilton over McQuaid, or with Bartkowski over Redden. He chose to do neither. He had two viable options for getting a player with some offensive ability/mobility into the lineup as his #6 defenseman, and opted for neither.

In game 5, injuries forced Bartkowski into the lineup, and he barely saw the ice. 6 minutes I think. If Julien valued his mobility vs. the "station to station" game, he had the option of giving him a few more shifts. He chose otherwise.

In game 6, he opted to go for Hamilton over Bartkowski, which seemed to make a certain amount of sense in that 1) Ference blew game 5 with a bad play at the point on the PP, 2) Julien cited the L/R thing for the reason why Bart played over Hamilton, but that really only makes sense if Bart is playing a regular shift, which he didn't. But then he kept Hamilton off the PP.

"Station to station" is his choice, and presumably his preference, since he didn't change course until it was forced on him by injuries.

Julien is a very good coach, but that doesn't mean every decision he makes is the right one. He has various strengths and weaknesses just like the rest of us.

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05-18-2013, 11:03 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
Well, first of all, McQuaid doesn't have 300 career playoff games. Redden had 29 NHL games (and zero NHL playoff games) in the past three seasons. We're not talking about Ray Bourque and Nick Lidstrom.

Julien had the option of going Hamilton over McQuaid, or with Bartkowski over Redden. He chose to do neither. He had two viable options for getting a player with some offensive ability/mobility into the lineup as his #6 defenseman, and opted for neither.

In game 5, injuries forced Bartkowski into the lineup, and he barely saw the ice. 6 minutes I think. If Julien valued his mobility vs. the "station to station" game, he had the option of giving him a few more shifts. He chose otherwise.

In game 6, he opted to go for Hamilton over Bartkowski, which seemed to make a certain amount of sense in that 1) Ference blew game 5 with a bad play at the point on the PP, 2) Julien cited the L/R thing for the reason why Bart played over Hamilton, but that really only makes sense if Bart is playing a regular shift, which he didn't. But then he kept Hamilton off the PP.

"Station to station" is his choice, and presumably his preference, since he didn't change course until it was forced on him by injuries.

Julien is a very good coach, but that doesn't mean every decision he makes is the right one. He has various strengths and weaknesses just like the rest of us.
Well, second of all, no one in the history of the game has played 300 playoff games. Please re-read post you responded to.

And C, you do realize that no one decides who should play in NHL games based on weather they utilize a D to D option or not. There are, after all, a few other requirements for playing the position.

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05-18-2013, 11:52 AM
  #65
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Lol at you guys going back to the 70s and 80s the modern nhl is nothing like then parity is widespread now. You have to actually make the playoffs now ask the flyers ask the lightning .

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05-18-2013, 12:09 PM
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May I ask who are these teams your jealous of that make the final every year. Im pretty sure theres a lot of talented teams out there that don't win every year. Hawks ---are they talented well cup win -lose 1st rd -lose first rd . This is Pittsburgh first time out of the first rd in 3 years. Are we just that much more talented than these teams we just need a good coach.

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05-18-2013, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bruins repeat time View Post
Lol at you guys going back to the 70s and 80s the modern nhl is nothing like then parity is widespread now. You have to actually make the playoffs now ask the flyers ask the lightning .
The stats I quoted span close to 45 years, not just the 70's and 80's. While today's NHL has more parity then ever before. The fact still remains that the top teams are playoff regulars. There are anomalies from year to year, but on the whole your big teams are there year after year.

Regardless, you comment at being a bottom dweller never getting a sniff at the playoffs was incorrect.

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05-18-2013, 07:31 PM
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I remember some rough years before he got here. No surprize that no one has come in here and given me a list of teams, coaches that win every year. I see you said before stick how long does his free pass last why don't you give me a list of five to seven coaches that are doing a lot better than him the last four or five years.

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05-18-2013, 07:40 PM
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Just for the record Im not saying Julien is a better coach than Bylsma , Quennville or even Peter Laviolette . I just don't see the coaches that are winning or going to the cup every year. I think Bylsma is awesome yet he has a very very talented team and he hasn't seen the second round before this year since 2010 or the final for a long time.

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05-19-2013, 10:58 AM
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Nice having defensemen who can skate, move the puck, and play with confidence on the power-play - even if they're rookies.

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05-19-2013, 11:11 AM
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Just for the record Im not saying Julien is a better coach than Bylsma , Quennville or even Peter Laviolette . I just don't see the coaches that are winning or going to the cup every year. I think Bylsma is awesome yet he has a very very talented team and he hasn't seen the second round before this year since 2010 or the final for a long time.
It would have been interesting to see how any of the three mentioned above would have done with the group Julien helped guide to a playoff spot in 07/08, IMO, the best coaching job he`s done with this team as far as what he had to work with and what he did to put them into spots to be successful.

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05-19-2013, 11:42 AM
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It would have been interesting to see how any of the three mentioned above would have done with the group Julien helped guide to a playoff spot in 07/08, IMO, the best coaching job he`s done with this team as far as what he had to work with and what he did to put them into spots to be successful.
Unfortunate that he then shot himself in the foot by holding Kessel out too long.

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05-19-2013, 12:15 PM
  #73
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You guys are far too easy on Julien when it comes to A) Jagr and B) Seguin.

Even if you want to justify putting someone else up on the Bergeron line, anyone else on the team would play better than Jagr right now. If you are going to dress the slow, selfish, power-play specialist, sit him on your 3rd or 4th line with little even strength minutes and let him play the top power play. Bergeron has only above average NHL speed but when I see him out there on the ice with Jagr, Bergy looks like Matt Moulson. Paille, Kelly, even the Raptor-not-yet-risen-playing-like-he's-still-dead-Jesus would be a better match on that line if you insist on dropping Seguin.

The biggest problem with Julien is Seguin. I don't know what is going on there but there is something personal that we don't know about. He is held to a double standard on this team. He misses official team events and he gets suspended while other teammates miss them and they do not get suspended. He switches to play center and is checking his man down low where he is supposed to be while Jagr is caught not backchecking and on the wrong side of the ice and Seguin gets blamed and benched. He is not scoring in the playoffs but neither was anyone not on the Krejci line and he is forced to have to play with Peverly. Yeah, that's going to help jump start his game.

He certainly makes mistakes but why is he the only one ever held to account for them? Seidenberg was absolutely horrible in at least two of those Toronto games but no one said anything about it. McQuaid has looked like a black-and-gold pylon for most of the playoffs but no one says anything about that either. Since coming back from the concussion and up until game 7 in the playoffs, Bergeron has been horrible offensively--but everyone just assumes that and Marchand's offensive problems are Seguin's fault.

Julien is throttling Seguin and it will not change until there is a new coach or Seguin is traded. This happens in all the workplaces I've been in. A boss/manager dislikes an employee and the employees work suffers until a new boss/manager comes in. It is interpersonal dynamics that most boss/managers and the employee themselves cannot overcome.

I'd rather keep Seguin and lose the coach and GM. Last time this happened, we traded Thornton and ended up tossing the coach and GM a year later anyway.
There's too much wrong with this post that I don't have time to respond to all of it now, but I will respond to one part that is probably the most inaccurate part.

You claim ONLY Seguin seems to be held accountable and benched for poor performance, and that others don't get a lot of blame. That is complete inaccurate as many players on the Bruins have gotten **** this season from people.

Has Seguin been in the press-box this year like Lucic, Peverley, and Hamilton. Oh, wait, I thought no one else was held responsible?.

Seguin missing the net, shooting it into the goalies chest, and not finishing his chances has nothing to do with Julien "hindering" him.

People who says the Bruins system is at fault for a "lack of scoring offense" since Julien has been here are absolutely full of it. Go back to when he first game here, and let me know where the Bruins ranked in goals for and goals against each season since he's been here. There was one poor season where they finished 30th in goals for, but you're going to look like a fool if you post their other finishes.

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05-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #74
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Just for the record Im not saying Julien is a better coach than Bylsma , Quennville or even Peter Laviolette . I just don't see the coaches that are winning or going to the cup every year. I think Bylsma is awesome yet he has a very very talented team and he hasn't seen the second round before this year since 2010 or the final for a long time.
He's a better coach than each and everyone of those coaches without a shadow of a doubt.

If people want to talk about Babcock, Trotz, and maybe Hitchcock, there could be an argument, but there's none for any of those three.

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05-19-2013, 12:21 PM
  #75
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There's too much wrong with this post that I don't have time to respond to all of it now, but I will respond to one part that is probably the most inaccurate part.

You claim ONLY Seguin seems to be held accountable and benched for poor performance, and that others don't get a lot of blame. That is complete inaccurate as many players on the Bruins have gotten **** this season from people.

Has Seguin been in the press-box this year like Lucic, Peverley, and Hamilton. Oh, wait, I thought no one else was held responsible?.

Seguin missing the net, shooting it into the goalies chest, and not finishing his chances has nothing to do with Julien "hindering" him.

People who says the Bruins system is at fault for a "lack of scoring offense" since Julien has been here are absolutely full of it. Go back to when he first game here, and let me know where the Bruins ranked in goals for and goals against each season since he's been here. There was one poor season where they finished 30th in goals for, but you're going to look like a fool if you post their other finishes.
You miss the point.

Because the Bruins are clearly the most gifted offensive team in the league, Julien has kept them from leading the league in goals every year.

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