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Old
05-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by ReggieMoto View Post
While I understand your point, I just can't agree they should keep him past this year. He played this way even prior to his concussion. He's always been very streaky. Perhaps he's even more so following his concussion, but his return to "normalcy" will still be more of the same.

He's so much more effective when he's moving, but he does an awful lot of standing around. And he's become far too easy to move off the puck. I just don't see what unique skill set he brings anymore.

If there is one, help me see it.
How about scoring goals? I get many of his goals looked easy, but getting into the right spots to score those goals is a skill that not everyone has.

I get that many don't like Horton, but who are you going to replace him with? Unless there is a plan to replace Horton I don't see how we can let walk and leave a huge hole in our top six.

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05-18-2013, 02:00 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by finchster View Post
How about scoring goals? I get many of his goals looked easy, but getting into the right spots to score those goals is a skill that not everyone has.

I get that many don't like Horton, but who are you going to replace him with? Unless there is a plan to replace Horton I don't see how we can let walk and leave a huge hole in our top six.
There is no sure bet on who could replace him. That's why Chia should sign him. The only FA thats an improvement over Nasty Nate is Clarkson, but there is no guarantee he wants to sign here.

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05-18-2013, 02:00 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by finchster View Post
How about scoring goals? I get many of his goals looked easy, but getting into the right spots to score those goals is a skill that not everyone has.

I get that many don't like Horton, but who are you going to replace him with? Unless there is a plan to replace Horton I don't see how we can let walk and leave a huge hole in our top six.
this. all the people who want him gone please tell me who you think should replace him. I'm not saying keep him eve if he has ridiculous contract demands but if we can sign him for somewhere between 4-4.75 million or even a little higher I do it.

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05-18-2013, 02:02 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Yeti34 View Post
There is no sure bet on who could replace him. That's why Chia should sign him. The only FA thats an improvement over Nasty Nate is Clarkson, but there is no guarantee he wants to sign here.
I think Clarkson is going to get a truckload of money from someone. Horton will cost less IMO

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05-18-2013, 02:04 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Perhaps. But there are other factors beyond money. Even that is an unknown right now - will some other team(s) make him the proverbial offer he can't refuse? Would he take less to stay in Boston, with teammates he obviously cares for (and friends his wife and family have made)? Do the Bruins want to keep him? What if he gets a tremendous offer from, say, Dallas? Would he give up playing for an original six, contending team to go there?

There are many players who have followed the money, and ended up regretting it. I have no idea what makes Horton tick, or what's most important to him, beyond the fact that he's close to Lucic, and their wives are close friends as well, and that he has a couple of young children (I believe the oldest is probably in school now). But I think any sort of decision about his future with the team will be about more than money.
At the end of the day, its a business for both parties.
If it makes business sense, a deal will be struck. If not, it won't.

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05-18-2013, 02:04 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by PJ StockBB View Post
I think Clarkson is going to get a truckload of money from someone. Horton will cost less IMO
Clarkson will get about the same. With the cap going down as much as it is. I can't see him getting more than 5 per

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05-18-2013, 02:15 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
How about scoring goals? I get many of his goals looked easy, but getting into the right spots to score those goals is a skill that not everyone has.

I get that many don't like Horton, but who are you going to replace him with? Unless there is a plan to replace Horton I don't see how we can let walk and leave a huge hole in our top six.
He is third in goals, isn't he?

Looks, it's not that I don't like him. I do. I liked him when they acquired him and up until the last half of this season I've liked him. But it's been this last half of the season and the playoffs where I've seen him become so lackadaisical in his (perceived by me) effort, like I said with the standing around.

He's making $5.5M this season. Does his contract go down should he re-up with the Bruins? Does the team pay him more than that, especially with the cap going down? I just can't see it, either way. I also question whether he would take less if he's as productive as his stats make him appear to be (0.3 GPG in the regular season, 0.5 GPG in the playoffs).

What are the odds he goes for that $4M - $4.5M in his next contract? I'd think slim.

I don't know. I figure Chia lets him test the FA market. It'll be tough with the cap going down as expected. We'll see.

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05-18-2013, 02:26 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Yeti34 View Post
There is no sure bet on who could replace him. That's why Chia should sign him. The only FA thats an improvement over Nasty Nate is Clarkson, but there is no guarantee he wants to sign here.
Ummmm, what?!?!?!?

Ask almost any Devils fan if they would rather have Horton or Clarkson, and I can almost guarantee they would rather have Horton, especially if their cap hits are the same.

Clarkson had a good start to the season, but Devils fans were hating him for most of the season. Horton is without a doubt the better player between the two. This is a case of looking at a players hot start and thinking he's magically a better player. Clarkson played like a third liner much of the season.

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05-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #309
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Ummmm, what?!?!?!?

Ask almost any Devils fan if they would rather have Horton or Clarkson, and I can almost guarantee they would rather have Horton, especially if their cap hits are the same.

Clarkson had a good start to the season, but Devils fans were hating him for most of the season. Horton is without a doubt the better player between the two. This is a case of looking at a players hot start and thinking he's magically a better player. Clarkson played like a third liner much of the season.
Clarkson is on a worse team. His game is more of what everyone here was looking for. Pretty even trade off in the scoring dept IMO, with th edge to Clarkson in grit, edge to Horton in skill

I'd keep Horton still. He has some good chemistry. I want to see some changes on that third line. One of or both Kelly and Pevs should be traded to make room for hungrier players.

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05-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #310
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Clarkson is on a worse team. His game is more of what everyone here was looking for. Pretty even trade off in the scoring dept IMO, with th edge to Clarkson in grit, edge to Horton in skill.
I think people would be very disappointed with him here. I think people would love his physicality, but I don't think they'd like his other results.

I'm not sure what will happen with Horton, but it would be tough to let go of a player you know can put the puck in the net.

I would think the Bruins would consider moving Boychuk, Pevs, and a few others before not re-signing Horton.

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05-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #311
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this. all the people who want him gone please tell me who you think should replace him. I'm not saying keep him eve if he has ridiculous contract demands but if we can sign him for somewhere between 4-4.75 million or even a little higher I do it.
I'd go 5m tops and move Kelly and Peverley to make space. Spooner doesn't have anything left to prove in the AHL and Soderberg will probably play on the third line next year. That leaves the Bruins with a hole on the third line right wing which is easier to replace than a top six right wing

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Soderberg - Spooner - ????
Pallie - Campbell - Thornton

We could even get a RW in a trade for Kelly or Peverley.

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He is third in goals, isn't he?

Looks, it's not that I don't like him. I do. I liked him when they acquired him and up until the last half of this season I've liked him. But it's been this last half of the season and the playoffs where I've seen him become so lackadaisical in his (perceived by me) effort, like I said with the standing around.

He's making $5.5M this season. Does his contract go down should he re-up with the Bruins? Does the team pay him more than that, especially with the cap going down? I just can't see it, either way. I also question whether he would take less if he's as productive as his stats make him appear to be (0.3 GPG in the regular season, 0.5 GPG in the playoffs).

What are the odds he goes for that $4M - $4.5M in his next contract? I'd think slim.

I don't know. I figure Chia lets him test the FA market. It'll be tough with the cap going down as expected. We'll see.
Everyone has his price, mine is 5m for Horton anymore than that I let him walk as well. As for lack of effort, it would be nice to have a team full of guys who play 100mph every shift but I'm not letting a guy walk based on 'effort' when we don't have the talent to replace him.

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Originally Posted by Yeti34 View Post
Clarkson is on a worse team. His game is more of what everyone here was looking for. Pretty even trade off in the scoring dept IMO, with th edge to Clarkson in grit, edge to Horton in skill

I'd keep Horton still. He has some good chemistry. I want to see some changes on that third line. One of or both Kelly and Pevs should be traded to make room for hungrier players.
Playing on a worse team can inflate offensive numbers for middling forwards because they will play more. Clarkson played 17:35 a night with 3:30 PPTOI a night, only Bergeron and Krejci played more than that and everyone played about a minute less on the power play. I can't see a situation where Clarkson would play more than all our top six wingers. I want no part of Clarkson.

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05-18-2013, 03:08 PM
  #312
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I'd go 5m tops and move Kelly and Peverley to make space. Spooner doesn't have anything left to prove in the AHL and Soderberg will probably play on the third line next year. That leaves the Bruins with a hole on the third line right wing which is easier to replace than a top six right wing

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Soderberg - Spooner - ????
Pallie - Campbell - Thornton

We could even get a RW in a trade for Kelly or Peverley.



Everyone has his price, mine is 5m for Horton anymore than that I let him walk as well. As for lack of effort, it would be nice to have a team full of guys who play 100mph every shift but I'm not letting a guy walk based on 'effort' when we don't have the talent to replace him.



Playing on a worse team can inflate offensive numbers for middling forwards because they will play more. Clarkson played 17:35 a night with 3:30 PPTOI a night, only Bergeron and Krejci played more than that and everyone played about a minute less on the power play. I can't see a situation where Clarkson would play more than all our top six wingers. I want no part of Clarkson.
I agree with what your saying except wanting no part of Clarkson. If for some reason Horton wants to leave. You have to fill that whole, and Clarkson is the best guy to do that.

Really want to see the bolded, but I don't see Chia moving both of them.

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05-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #313
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NH is maddeningly streaky and at times completely disappears in the regular season. I was so pissed at him this season -- just frustrating as hell.

However, playoff stats do not lie.

NH has played a total of 29 NHL playoff games -- all with Boston.

Over those 29 games he has 12 goals, 13 assists, for a total of 25 points.

His plus minus over those 29 games has been an unbelievable +23.

I don't have a clue how you replace those sort of playoff numbers if you let him go.

And that playoff performance is not just a case of luck. He's picked it up massively in these playoffs and has been one of our better players on the ice. No idea how far we will go in this run and one can never predict the future, however there's little evidence to suggest that Horton will tail off anytime soon this postseason.

I think Boston needs to try and re-up him and we all need to find a way to live with his off and on performance during the regular season.

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05-18-2013, 03:39 PM
  #314
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Would like to keep nate at the right price as mentioned 5 million is a number I could love with... 5 mill over 2 or 3 years is best... Without any no trade garbage

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05-18-2013, 03:56 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
I think people would be very disappointed with him here. I think people would love his physicality, but I don't think they'd like his other results.

I'm not sure what will happen with Horton, but it would be tough to let go of a player you know can put the puck in the net.

I would think the Bruins would consider moving Boychuk, Pevs, and a few others before not re-signing Horton.
I agree. Clarkson is a marginal playoff performer, too.

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05-18-2013, 04:19 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Number8 View Post
NH is maddeningly streaky and at times completely disappears in the regular season. I was so pissed at him this season -- just frustrating as hell.

However, playoff stats do not lie.

NH has played a total of 29 NHL playoff games -- all with Boston.

Over those 29 games he has 12 goals, 13 assists, for a total of 25 points.

His plus minus over those 29 games has been an unbelievable +23.

I don't have a clue how you replace those sort of playoff numbers if you let him go.

And that playoff performance is not just a case of luck. He's picked it up massively in these playoffs and has been one of our better players on the ice. No idea how far we will go in this run and one can never predict the future, however there's little evidence to suggest that Horton will tail off anytime soon this postseason.

I think Boston needs to try and re-up him and we all need to find a way to live with his off and on performance during the regular season.
You hope Seguin replaces Horton he has done jack witch makes him a canidate for the replacement, hope Krejci puts Seguin in a position to score with the puck.

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05-18-2013, 04:28 PM
  #317
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You hope Seguin replaces Horton he has done jack witch makes him a canidate for the replacement, hope Krejci puts Seguin in a position to score with the puck.
Then who replaces Segs? Your still left with the same problem. Segs has put up some decent point totals these past couple of years you can't just leave that spot unfilled going into the season.

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05-18-2013, 04:30 PM
  #318
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You hope Seguin replaces Horton he has done jack witch makes him a canidate for the replacement, hope Krejci puts Seguin in a position to score with the puck.
Do you mean Horton has done jack or Horton?

Seguin is just a young kid. However, when the playoff intensity style play kicks in it seems his style of game gets outmuscled.

I'm not ragging on him, I think he has huge upside.

However, at this stage he's not shown that he's about to break out and become a threat in the playoffs.

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05-18-2013, 04:34 PM
  #319
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NH is maddeningly streaky and at times completely disappears in the regular season. I was so pissed at him this season -- just frustrating as hell.

However, playoff stats do not lie.

NH has played a total of 29 NHL playoff games -- all with Boston.

Over those 29 games he has 12 goals, 13 assists, for a total of 25 points.

His plus minus over those 29 games has been an unbelievable +23.

I don't have a clue how you replace those sort of playoff numbers if you let him go.

And that playoff performance is not just a case of luck. He's picked it up massively in these playoffs and has been one of our better players on the ice. No idea how far we will go in this run and one can never predict the future, however there's little evidence to suggest that Horton will tail off anytime soon this postseason.

I think Boston needs to try and re-up him and we all need to find a way to live with his off and on performance during the regular season.
I don't envy Chia and Co. on this call. NH is a real dilemma, but in the end, I agree with you that we have to bite the bullet, without going overboard on salary, of course.

With many players, we get angry when they have awesome regular seasons and dissappear "when it counts" in the playoffs. Yet, we have no problem continually "ok-ing" extended contracts for them.

If "performing when it really counts" is of paramount importance, and to me, it is, and you have a player who has consistently performed under those circumstances, then it would make little sense not to reward that.

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05-18-2013, 05:36 PM
  #320
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I wouldn't be surprised if they could sign Horton for one year, maybe 2 for the SAME cap hit he is on the books for now. HE LOVES BOSTON.

This guy was wasting away in FLA, and knows what it is like to have to play in a bad organization. IMO, he will be happy to play into his next contract, kind of like what the B's did with Tuukka.

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05-18-2013, 06:04 PM
  #321
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He is frustrating with his inconsistency and with the time it takes him to shoot the puck but he is one a only a few Bruins that can beat goalies clean from the circle. I was about ready to give up on the guy but he has been huge for us in the playoffs.

I think it comes down to whether the Bruins can deal Peverly or will amnesty buy out Peverly. I don't think they will have the cap dollars for both.

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05-18-2013, 06:26 PM
  #322
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Do you mean Horton has done jack or Horton?

Seguin is just a young kid. However, when the playoff intensity style play kicks in it seems his style of game gets outmuscled.

I'm not ragging on him, I think he has huge upside.

However, at this stage he's not shown that he's about to break out and become a threat in the playoffs.
I mean Seguin has done jack so your not replaceing him yet becuase you do not need to replace zero goals, if he can replace Hortons numbers then your at full strengh plus whatever Spooner does to replace seguins goose egg.

If Horts is gone you hope Krejci and Seguin (or if one of our rooks burst out or some trade deadline guy) but right now you have your replacement in Seguin.

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05-18-2013, 06:33 PM
  #323
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If he doesn't re sign, it'll hurt this team BAD. No one can replace him on the first line. He loves it here. He'll come back.

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05-18-2013, 07:43 PM
  #324
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The fact that he hasn't resigned with the Bruins yet is cause for concern on my part. Chia has a tendency to lock up the core before they are so close to free agency and I think Horton needs to be part of that core. Solid combination of size and speed and is a guy who, when healthy, is consistently in the running as an offensive leader on this Bruins team.

I think if he walks we'll be clamoring for a skilled winger with his size and skill level.

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I mean Seguin has done jack so your not replaceing him yet becuase you do not need to replace zero goals, if he can replace Hortons numbers then your at full strengh plus whatever Spooner does to replace seguins goose egg.

If Horts is gone you hope Krejci and Seguin (or if one of our rooks burst out or some trade deadline guy) but right now you have your replacement in Seguin.
If by done jack you mean scored more points and goals then any other Bruin forward the last two years at the age of 21 then I would agree with your assessment. Probably not what you mean though, so I would then point out you're using an 8 game sample size, but you probably wouldn't get it anyway.

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05-18-2013, 10:45 PM
  #325
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So far, we have not lost any series that Horton has played in as a Bruin. With him in in the line-up there is no way we lose to Washington in 7 OT last year.

We know all about his heroics in 2011, lets look where we are at so far in 2013:

Horton: 8pts in 8 games +12
Kelly: 0pts in 8 games (-5)
Peverley 1pt in 7 games (-3)

Horton playing against much higher competition on the average shift.

If you need to open up money (which we do) then you start with Beavis and Butthead on the 3rd line --pretty easy to replace that kind of "production" with with young, 800k players.

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