HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-18-2013, 02:16 AM
  #701
Hemsky4PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Billeting Ales
Posts: 6,565
vCash: 500
This summer, it's all about the cap and RFAs that teams cannot keep.

Before getting blasted, I realise most of the below players under contract have NMC, NTC or modified versions thereof.

Vancouver
Tanev
Bieksa
Edler
Kesler

Philly
Hartnell
Grossmann
Coburn
B. Schenn
S. Couturier
Maszaros

Toronto
Franson
Gunnarsson
M. Fraser
Kostka (UFA - possible no.7 guy)

Tampa
Malone
Hedman
Brewer
S. Salo

Washington
Alzner
Laich
Brouwer

Oilers primary pieces to offer: Gagner, Hemsky, Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Lander, No. 7 over-all pick, other draft picks.

There are some good options out there, especially if the above teams are primarily looking to shed salary and players can be convinced to waive to come to Edmonton.

How about this for a bold move: Petry and no.7 overall for Victor Hedman.

Hemsky4PM is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:34 AM
  #702
Paralyzer008
Registered User
 
Paralyzer008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
This summer, it's all about the cap and RFAs that teams cannot keep.

Before getting blasted, I realise most of the below players under contract have NMC, NTC or modified versions thereof.

Vancouver
Tanev
Bieksa
Edler
Kesler

Philly
Hartnell
Grossmann
Coburn
B. Schenn
S. Couturier
Maszaros

Toronto
Franson
Gunnarsson
M. Fraser
Kostka (UFA - possible no.7 guy)

Tampa
Malone
Hedman
Brewer
S. Salo

Washington
Alzner
Laich
Brouwer

Oilers primary pieces to offer: Gagner, Hemsky, Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Lander, No. 7 over-all pick, other draft picks.

There are some good options out there, especially if the above teams are primarily looking to shed salary and players can be convinced to waive to come to Edmonton.

How about this for a bold move: Petry and no.7 overall for Victor Hedman.
Tampa Bay fans would laugh at the Petry proposal.
Going by the list, how about:
No.7 overall + Hartikainen for Edler (got a feeling Canucks fans wouldn't like that)

or maybe

No.7 overall + N. Schultz for Coburn, Rinaldo and something else

Paralyzer008 is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 05:07 AM
  #703
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,692
vCash: 500
Reading the question and answers in Staples fanchat today, he think Streit's leaving and that Streit could get $6m on the ufa market. He's not expected back.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 07:48 AM
  #704
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Reading the question and answers in Staples fanchat today, he think Streit's leaving and that Streit could get $6m on the ufa market. He's not expected back.
The Oilers will offer that I think unless they have something else cooking.

I think internally they would have interest in Jay Bouwmeester or a deal involving their pick + and Tyler Myers if Buffalo is ready to move on from his contract.

Those are just my hunches though.

Soundwave is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 09:02 AM
  #705
Hemsky4PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Billeting Ales
Posts: 6,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
The Oilers will offer that I think unless they have something else cooking.

I think internally they would have interest in Jay Bouwmeester or a deal involving their pick + and Tyler Myers if Buffalo is ready to move on from his contract.

Those are just my hunches though.
Streit is 35 years old and the cap is going down. I think he'll be a 5M defenseman on a 3 year deal. He'll get that offer (maybe 5.5M from someone) from a handful of teams, including the NYI.

It's a Gonchar-like risk. Gonchar was horrible in his first year with Ottawa, but has had two decent years since. That's what I see with Streit. You sign him for 3-4 years and you'll get two good ones.

Not my first choice when you could get a guy like Liles for a song. I'd like to see the Oilers bring in something like Liles and Alzner/Coburn/Gudbranson...tough to get those guys though.

Mayers would be a great addition...but he made 12M last season - so the Sabres have already made a huge investment in him, so I doubt he'll be moved. I'd take Ville Leino as a 2nd line LW though. I also like Luke Adam - who is like the Sabres' Paajarvi.


Last edited by Hemsky4PM: 05-18-2013 at 09:21 AM.
Hemsky4PM is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 10:46 AM
  #706
Powder
Droppin The KlefBom!
 
Powder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Tampa Bay fans would laugh at the Petry proposal.
Going by the list, how about:
No.7 overall + Hartikainen for Edler (got a feeling Canucks fans wouldn't like that)

or maybe

No.7 overall + N. Schultz for Coburn, Rinaldo and something else
Canucks fans are done with Edler out here, he's a guy that I believe is going to be available and I don't think he's going to cost too much to get.

People are really getting frustrated with his lack of development the last couple of years and they feel like he's going the wrong way.

The knee on knee hit to Staal seems to be the straw that's broken the camels back in the local media, they feel it's just more proof of the "bone-head" decisions he's been making for awhile now.

Edit: I'm not sure how much I want him on the Oil though, I see a lot of Canuck games and he's not the player he was expected to become when they gave him that extension.

Powder is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:01 AM
  #707
DousedInOil
Registered User
 
DousedInOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Katy <3
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,387
vCash: 500
I would take Edler in a heartbeat. I want nothing to do with Streit though. Too much for someone his age.

DousedInOil is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:06 AM
  #708
MetaOil1993
Registered User
 
MetaOil1993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,996
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Streit is 35 years old and the cap is going down. I think he'll be a 5M defenseman on a 3 year deal. He'll get that offer (maybe 5.5M from someone) from a handful of teams, including the NYI.

It's a Gonchar-like risk. Gonchar was horrible in his first year with Ottawa, but has had two decent years since. That's what I see with Streit. You sign him for 3-4 years and you'll get two good ones.

Not my first choice when you could get a guy like Liles for a song. I'd like to see the Oilers bring in something like Liles and Alzner/Coburn/Gudbranson...tough to get those guys though.

Mayers would be a great addition...but he made 12M last season - so the Sabres have already made a huge investment in him, so I doubt he'll be moved. I'd take Ville Leino as a 2nd line LW though. I also like Luke Adam - who is like the Sabres' Paajarvi.
Why? We have no need for Leino on this team. Have you seen his contract also? I disagree on the Paajarvi/Adam comparison. Paarjarvi has shown more than Adam IMO especially last year. Adam had that one good stretch about a year or so ago and has really done nothing since.

MetaOil1993 is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 11:45 AM
  #709
Valic
BOOOOOOOOOO
 
Valic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Streit is 35 years old and the cap is going down. I think he'll be a 5M defenseman on a 3 year deal. He'll get that offer (maybe 5.5M from someone) from a handful of teams, including the NYI.

It's a Gonchar-like risk. Gonchar was horrible in his first year with Ottawa, but has had two decent years since. That's what I see with Streit. You sign him for 3-4 years and you'll get two good ones.

Not my first choice when you could get a guy like Liles for a song. I'd like to see the Oilers bring in something like Liles and Alzner/Coburn/Gudbranson...tough to get those guys though.

Mayers would be a great addition...but he made 12M last season - so the Sabres have already made a huge investment in him, so I doubt he'll be moved. I'd take Ville Leino as a 2nd line LW though. I also like Luke Adam - who is like the Sabres' Paajarvi.

The Islanders will not be offering Streit a contract anywhere near that, if one at all.

So you want a new Shawn Horcoff contract in Ville Leino?

Egads people.

Valic is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 12:50 PM
  #710
SeriousBusiness
T.Hall da man
 
SeriousBusiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Reading the question and answers in Staples fanchat today, he think Streit's leaving and that Streit could get $6m on the ufa market. He's not expected back.
I've always wondered, is Staples actually "plugged in" when it comes to NHL inside news? I understand he covers the Oilers a fair bit, but also touches on various non-sports, city and provincial issues as well.

Not a criticism of Staples, I'm just curious if someone who touches a lot of different news topics can truly have inside information as specific as something like Streit for example.

SeriousBusiness is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 12:58 PM
  #711
Peter Zezel
CDN Werewolf in LDN
 
Peter Zezel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 373
vCash: 50
If the oilers draft a man this year I'd sign Streit.

Its pretty interesting how a lot of fan bases are down on lots of dman. Would be nice if GM's are thinking the same way and its a buyers market.

Peter Zezel is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 01:14 PM
  #712
haterbehatin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 766
vCash: 500
Ok seriously why would anyone offer Mark Streit 6m per season not saying he's a bad player but the people here HATE Horcoff because he's overpayed just imagine the hate for Streit in year 3 of a 6m per deal. I wouldn't even give that to Streit for one season let alone a 3 or more year deal it's rumoured in this thread that he's seeking.

haterbehatin is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 01:31 PM
  #713
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,185
vCash: 500
I'd target Jay Bo from St. Louis first but if they can't get a puck moving D any other way other than giving up significant assets I'd offer Streit a

6 5 3.5

Deal. The last year of the deal can be bought out if need be.

I don't even want him all that badly but starting the season with

Smid Petry
N. Schultz J. Schultz
Klefbom Fistric

Is basically killing any hope of a playoff berth. I don't even know if the goals against is the issue so much as needing puck movement and offense off the back end.

Soundwave is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #714
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,595
vCash: 500
The second year would have to be a little over $4.2M because of the new 35% variance rule.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:02 PM
  #715
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
 
OilerFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,599
vCash: 500
I posted a few months ago that Andrew Ference would like to come back closer to home.

He would be a solid #5 and is a GREAT team guy...teammates love him...opponents hate him. Opposition fans hate him.

OilerFan4Life is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:05 PM
  #716
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
 
OilerFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,599
vCash: 500
I wouldn't touch JayBo but why do I get the feeling the Oilers will be calling St. Louis?
For the Blues, he was clearly a rental for a playoff run...I really don't think they intended on keeping him beyond this year....the interesting thing will be, how do you give up a 1st rounder and then flip him for anything less than a 1st now?

That contract is tough to swallow with all of their RFAs this year/

OilerFan4Life is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:11 PM
  #717
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I wouldn't touch JayBo but why do I get the feeling the Oilers will be calling St. Louis?
For the Blues, he was clearly a rental for a playoff run...I really don't think they intended on keeping him beyond this year....the interesting thing will be, how do you give up a 1st rounder and then flip him for anything less than a 1st now?

That contract is tough to swallow with all of their RFAs this year/
I'm pretty sure Armstrong said that the Bouwmeester move was a long term one and that he fully intended on keeping him next season and hopefully beyond.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:26 PM
  #718
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,726
vCash: 500
$6 million for Streit is silly unless it's for a single season and this is coming from a guy that would like to see us sign him.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is online now  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:27 PM
  #719
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
The Islanders will not be offering Streit a contract anywhere near that, if one at all.

So you want a new Shawn Horcoff contract in Ville Leino?

Egads people.
No doubt, Buffalo fans would worship you if you could convince another team to take that contract off their hands.

Bryanbryoil is online now  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:32 PM
  #720
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
 
OilerFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I'm pretty sure Armstrong said that the Bouwmeester move was a long term one and that he fully intended on keeping him next season and hopefully beyond.
Right because GM's are always truthful

23 million to sign:

Stewart
Berglund
McDonald (or a replacement for McDonald)
Pietrangelo
Leopold
Russell
Shattenkirk


and lets not forget the Blues owner isn't exactly Mr. money bags...I would think they spend 55-58 million and not to the full 63 million cap so make it 18 million to sign all of the above players.

OilerFan4Life is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:40 PM
  #721
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
 
OilerFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
This summer, it's all about the cap and RFAs that teams cannot keep.

Before getting blasted, I realise most of the below players under contract have NMC, NTC or modified versions thereof.

Vancouver
Tanev
Bieksa
Edler
Kesler

Philly
Hartnell
Grossmann
Coburn
B. Schenn
S. Couturier
Maszaros

Toronto
Franson
Gunnarsson
M. Fraser
Kostka (UFA - possible no.7 guy)

Tampa
Malone
Hedman
Brewer
S. Salo

Washington
Alzner
Laich
Brouwer

Oilers primary pieces to offer: Gagner, Hemsky, Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Lander, No. 7 over-all pick, other draft picks.

There are some good options out there, especially if the above teams are primarily looking to shed salary and players can be convinced to waive to come to Edmonton.

How about this for a bold move: Petry and no.7 overall for Victor Hedman.
Vancouver won't trade with us.
Toronto is in a good cap situation so I don't know why you listed them.

Tampa, Philly, and Washington are legitimate teams to target.

Hartnell waived his NTC to come here before Tambo got nervous and pulled out according to a Matheson piece a few months ago.
Malone refused to waive his NTC to come here according to Stauffer on the radio a few weeks ago.

I'd take either of those 2 as a big LW is exactly what this team needs.

Hedman, lol.....I'm not saying you're making a bad offer but really dude....it's like Tampa offering us #3 and Richard Panik for Taylor Hall. There's no way they're going to trade Hedman.

Caps just extended Brouwer a few weeks ago so they won't deal him. Laich is interesting....he's well liked in that room by all accounts and they missed him a lot this year....they're probably still playing if he was healthy.

OilerFan4Life is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:40 PM
  #722
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Right because GM's are always truthful

23 million to sign:

Stewart
Berglund
McDonald (or a replacement for McDonald)
Pietrangelo
Leopold
Russell
Shattenkirk


and lets not forget the Blues owner isn't exactly Mr. money bags...I would think they spend 55-58 million and not to the full 63 million cap so make it 18 million to sign all of the above players.
They have closer to $25M in cap space next season. They'll be able to replace McDonald internally with Tarasenko or Schwartz and there's talks of moving Halak and his $3.75M cap hit.

I don't think they'll have any issues fitting Stewart, Berglund, Petro and Shattenkirk under the cap.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:45 PM
  #723
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
The Islanders will not be offering Streit a contract anywhere near that, if one at all.

.
Days after Vis signed his 2 yr/$9.7m extension, several media members(Staple, Strang, I think MacKenzie and Dreger), reported Streit rejected Snow's 3 yr/$15m offer and countered with a 3 yr/$16.5m proposal.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:47 PM
  #724
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
I've always wondered, is Staples actually "plugged in" when it comes to NHL inside news? I understand he covers the Oilers a fair bit, but also touches on various non-sports, city and provincial issues as well.

Not a criticism of Staples, I'm just curious if someone who touches a lot of different news topics can truly have inside information as specific as something like Streit for example.
Arthur Staple is the Isles Newsday beatwriter.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
05-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #725
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 5,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
[/B]
nope to bold.

7th overall + choice of 2 of Harti/N.Schultz/Hemsky (2.5m retained) + both 2nds for Myers + !6th overall (Min pick)

7th overall + player is slightly less then Myers
Harti + both 2nds slightly greater then 16th overall.

thoughts on value?

Edmonton drafts Best center available
Edmonton needs to draft the best Dman available at 7th.

Buffalo is not taking a one year rental in Hensky or N Schultz back. Harti seems like a 3rd/4th line NHLer at best.

2nd round picks are utter crapshoot in success/failure in drafting top 4D/top 9F. 2 2nds= 1 1st. Buffalo would rather get 2014 1st.

Myers + 16th >>>>> 7th.

I have read quite a few of the postings on here.

As a Buffalo fan let me give you guys some background on Myers....

His first two years he played very good.

yr 3 he slumped a little earlier in the season then got hurt and was out about a month...last half of the season he played at where you expect him to play.

This past year he had his extension contract kick in. With it heavily frontloaded where this year he was making $10M+ it seriously affected him. What also hurt him was with him playing in europe during the lockout because he got hurt (I think it was an ankle injury) so he lost his conditioning he had built up so coming back in this short compact season not being 100% healthy nor at full conditioning that you could get in preseason just wore him out.

About Lindy ruff----his biggest weakness by far is that he is not good with young players. There have been a few young players who basically went through the Ruff grinder and he destroyed their confidence. During the 05-06 playoff run he had Vanek as a healthy scratch for many of the games---he didnt trust rookies. A come complaint in the locker room was that Ruff still looked at the veteran players(Vanek, roy, Pominville, Gaustead, etc )as if they were still young kids not late 20s vets. Sort of how a father looks at their grown children--reverts to them still being 16-20 and not 27+.

The other what happened with the other Dmen. His rookie year he had Talinder paired with him as a rookie which he developed good chemistry with. Why they didnt keep Talinder I have no idea why. Many have talked on the Buffalo board of trading back for Talinder (final yr of a contract) as a way to get Myers to restore his form.


Could Bufalo move him---sure

Will they??? They arent in any rush to move him with him still under contract. He is also still 23. Had he been 26 or 27 then yes they would be looking to move him.

If they move him now they will seek full playing potential in return for him...not some cheap low ball offer.

They will not move him from picks and prospects. It would be a deal where they were getting and established player coming back. not quantity for quality.

Buffalo's biggest void in their farm system is in wingers. all they have is a 1st rounder from a few years ago coming over next year in Armia.

The problems with Buffalo now goes back to the draft. If you look at analyzing how your team drafted players in rounds 1-3 and did any of become top 16 talent( top 9 forward, top 6 D, starting goalie)---they may not be on your team (traded away) but they have been in the NHL. Pool the draft years into 3 year periods and for recent years based on full NHL potential should be. Here is what happened with buffalo:

2002-2004 6 players (Ballard, Paille,Vanek,MacArthur, Stafford, Sekera)
2005-2007 1.5 players(Mike Weber, Enroth-half pt, Brennan--hasnt earned a top 6 Dman job yet)
2008-2010 6 players (Myers, Ennis, Kassian/Hodgson, McNabb, Foligno, Pysyk)
2011-2013 6+ potential players( Armia,Catenacci, Grigorenko, Girgenson, McCabe, Kea, #8, #16, #38, #51, #68)

That void from 2005-2007 is being felt now. The players they have traded (Roy, Pominvile, Gaustead, etc) were drafted pre 2005. All that are left are Miller, Stafford, Vanek, Sekera, Ehrhoff, and Ott.

Thus there is this gap in the team of players from 2005-2007. Now they would be around ages 24-26---prime of their careers.

The team is not in a pure gut and rebuild. looking at their line up in 2014/2015(some of these players could earn spots late next season) looks like this:

xxx-Grigorenko-Armia
Ennis-Hodgson-xxx
Girgensons-Larsson-Foligno
xxx-Catenacci-xxx

Larsson and Ennis can flip positions.

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Myers-Ruhwedel
Weber-McNabb

Hackett/Enroth/Makarov

Thus much of the team will be under 25. If the team moves Vanek or Miller its part of a quicker rebuild where they then move their extra prospects/picks for a younger 24-26 yr old veteran.

My feeling the team would want to get a winger Drouin or Nichuskin. With Nichuskin the owner has the $$$ and could go to the KHL and pay to buy him out of his contract. If they were to trade up for one of the centers then it means one of the other centers could be moved for a winger.


The team would not be moving Myers or Ennis or any other of the young players for more picks/pure prospects. they would be moved for NHL ready players who appear to be an improvement on the current team by adding something they are lacking. Their biggest void projects to be top 2 line scoring wingers if Vanek is traded.

Ennis can play center. Something that has been talked about on the sabres boards would be dealing Ennis + Stafford/Sekera + for Ryan. If they were move Myers they would have to be getting a certain top 2 line winger back.

Buffalo would be looking for Eberle or Yakipov

If Edmonton isnt willing to give back Eberle (their salaries are about the same) or Yakipov then---

The only other way would be by trading MPS +Klefbom + 2014 1st + 2013 #7 to Buffalo for Myers + 2013 #16.

Djp is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.