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May 18 • Semifinal • Finland vs. Sweden (stats in post #2)

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Old
05-18-2013, 03:28 PM
  #676
FiLe
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Originally Posted by JFG View Post
But the only "A" players Finland has are goalies.
Oh, stop it. We have just enough to ice a squad, and you full well know it.

Sweden has enough for almost two, but if they get unlucky and all of their A class is unavailable, the talent drops more steeply than it does with Finland.

And again... I'm not trying to make this a debate between which is better after all, but simply asking... WHY??!

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05-18-2013, 03:29 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by 21 View Post
Also we can't forget about Enroth, probably our MVP so far.

The Sedins are amazing, among the top 10 or 15 players in the world, but they could have been even better with a bit more selfish game, harder slapshots and a stronger physical game.
I'm sorry but that is just plain stupid.

There is no way we would have been in the final if it wasn't for the Sedins. They are our MVP and it's not even close.

Enroth is amazing though.

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05-18-2013, 03:39 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Oh, stop it. We have just enough to ice a squad, and you full well know it.

Sweden has enough for almost two, but if they get unlucky and all of their A class is unavailable, the talent drops more steeply than it does with Finland.

And again... I'm not trying to make this a debate between which is better after all, but simply asking... WHY??!
I'm just teasing you. You are still a great hockey nation and I, for one, am really happy for it.

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05-18-2013, 03:42 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Patchy View Post
I'm sorry but that is just plain stupid.

There is no way we would have been in the final if it wasn't for the Sedins. They are our MVP and it's not even close.

Enroth is amazing though.
I don't think it's stupid at all, our usual goaltending the past 5 years would have shot us in the foot a couple of times every game. Enroth brickwalled the net.

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Old
05-18-2013, 03:43 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by JFG View Post
I'm just teasing you. You are still a great hockey nation and I, for one, am really happy for it.
Fair enough. But less teasing, and more explaining why Sweden has double the "A" talent Finland has, but loses grandly in the size of the "B" basket.

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05-18-2013, 03:51 PM
  #681
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As always - Sweden have a stiff upper lip.

That's why I have as a natural born Finn big problems with losin' to 'em. Comprende?

Even if todays game was a even game. I can't congratulate them.
The red-head-Sedin-NHL-army made the difference in the game, and that was about it.

Finland did what they have to do in the game against Sweden in Globen - and they showed that they are in the top four in the hockey-World, and that without their best players around.
And that's about fine with me.

This loss against Sweden didn't hurt me in anyway - maybe like a bee-sting ... but nothin' more!

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05-18-2013, 03:54 PM
  #682
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I'm not doing cartwheels over this victory. Game was too lax for my taste. Fun to watch the Sedin line, though. Got great chemistry with Loui.

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05-18-2013, 03:55 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Sleeptalker View Post
As always - Sweden have a stiff upper lip.

That's why I have as a natural born Finn big problems with losin' to 'em. Comprende?

Even if todays game was a even game. I can't congratulate them.
The red-head-Sedin-NHL-army made the difference in the game, and that was about it.

Finland did what they have to do in the game against Sweden in Globen - and they showed that they are in the top four in the hockey-World, and that without their best players around.
And that's about fine with me.

This loss against Sweden didn't hurt me in anyway - maybe like a bee-sting ... but nothin' more!
You do realize that you are contradicting yourself...

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05-18-2013, 03:58 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
Fair enough. But less teasing, and more explaining why Sweden has double the "A" talent Finland has, but loses grandly in the size of the "B" basket.
The fringe A-team players of Sweden are NHL players. The fringe A-team players of Finland aren't NHL worthy. I think this says all there is to say of the depth of our home teams. The C-players aren't interesting.

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05-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by JFG View Post
The fringe A-team players of Sweden are NHL players. The fringe A-team players of Finland aren't NHL worthy. I think this says all there is to say of the depth of our home teams. The C-players aren't interesting.
Yeah, that seems like the obvious explanation. But doesn't cut it fully.

This Team Finland, after all, was missing some of its best European-based talent as well... about two units' worth, to be exact. Yet they managed to scrape together a team that made the semis.

I'm not the right man to estimate how much of its top Euro talent Sweden is missing. But if it's not as bad as we did, it does appear that Finland has more depth in Europe - even if all their fringe players good enough for NA rinks would actually play there.

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05-18-2013, 04:09 PM
  #686
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Yeah, that seems like the obvious explanation. But doesn't cut it fully.

This Team Finland, after all, was missing some of its best European-based talent as well... about two units' worth, to be exact. Yet they managed to scrape together a team that made the semis.

I'm not the right man to estimate how much of its top Euro talent Sweden is missing. But if it's not as bad as we did, it does appear that Finland has more depth in Europe - even if all their fringe players good enough for NA rinks would actually play there.
I think you would be on to something, if it weren't for the fact that the second worst squad to be fielded was by us. Trust me and take my word for it, we haven't fielded anything like this for the past 20 years I've been watching.

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05-18-2013, 04:15 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by RorschachWJK View Post
Well, considering I wrote "We're missing more than 25 of our best players. You can start with goalies: Rinne, Rask, Niemi, Lehtonen, Bäckström, Vehanen, Kiprusoff...", I think it is clear that the reader is assumed to have the capability to connect the dots. Apparently this is not the case...so I'll spell it out: we were missing a few dozen of our best players and the list starts with goalies, feel free to continue.
STOP IT....just stop!

Your top 5 guy in NHL in points...Filppula had 17 points this year....17. Sweden had 19...i repeat 19 players that scored 17 points or more in NHL this season. Yes, you miss some players....but so does Sweden. And this is a GOOD thing for you!

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05-18-2013, 04:18 PM
  #688
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I think you would be on to something, if it weren't for the fact that the second worst squad to be fielded was by us. Trust me and take my word for it, we haven't fielded anything like this for the past 20 years I've been watching.
So Sweden had some top Euro talent unavailable as well? Or are you simply saying that this team is weak compared to those of the past?

If the former, I agree, it does become more difficult to estimate the respective depths in Europe and I may be blowing this difference out of proportion.


If the latter, you're actually confirming my point.

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05-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #689
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This Team Finland, after all, was missing some of its best European-based talent as well... about two units' worth, to be exact. Yet they managed to scrape together a team that made the semis.
By narrowly beating a lackluster Slovakia and a terrible Russia. Finland faced two good teams in the tournament and cleanly lost both games. I'd say that the Finnish team was just as mediocre as predicted before the tournament. Nothing more, nothing less.

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05-18-2013, 04:29 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by GCZ View Post
By narrowly beating a lackluster Slovakia and a terrible Russia. Finland faced two good teams in the tournament and cleanly lost both games. I'd say that the Finnish team was just as mediocre as predicted before the tournament. Nothing more, nothing less.
And what is Sweden without the Sedins?

Even worse than this admittedly mediocre Finland.

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05-18-2013, 04:30 PM
  #691
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And what is Sweden without the Sedins?

Even worse than this admittedly mediocre Finland.
What is Sweden without the Sedins...ever heared of Vezina winner Henrik Lundqvist? Ever heared of a Norris Trophy winner called Erik Karlsson?

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05-18-2013, 04:33 PM
  #692
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Finnish posters....the ones of you that can´t handle this loss needs to stop posting. Blaming refs...saying that you miss your best players....your just making a fool of yourselfs!

Sweden won...fair! Deal with it!

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05-18-2013, 04:35 PM
  #693
FiLe
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Erik Karlsson played 30 games is Finnish Jokerit this season. He had 34 points and won most points by a defenseman. The second...a canadien dude had 31 points in 60 games.
So, currently the best OD in the World comes to SM-liiga and puts up a stellar performance. Stop the press... not.

What we've been discussing lately is the talent Finland and Sweden have in various European leagues, and how those player pools compare to each other. Sayin' what some NHLer did or didn't do during the lockout is completely irrelevant to that discussion.

And I'm not even saying that Finland is better for sure, but trying to figure out if they are or not. But all these Swedes with comprehension problems sure are making it difficult. Next thing, I find myself trying to explain this in words of single syllables.

Luckily, Swedish has plenty of those.

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05-18-2013, 04:38 PM
  #694
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Alright. Back to the topic at hand now. You can go start a thread in the Polls section if you want to discuss who has better depth.

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05-18-2013, 06:56 PM
  #695
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so proud of henrik and daniel today

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05-18-2013, 06:59 PM
  #696
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Hope Swedish fans start to gain some respect for the Sedins now.

They're putting on quite the show.

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05-18-2013, 07:11 PM
  #697
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Hope Swedish fans start to gain some respect for the Sedins now.

They're putting on quite the show.
If we win gold and the twins dominate again they will become living legends in Sweden and heroes. This would mark the final breakthrough for the twins in Sweden.

Not very far from Salming, Forsberg, Sundin and Lidstrom level.

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05-18-2013, 07:29 PM
  #698
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If we win gold and the twins dominate again they will become living legends in Sweden and heroes. This would mark the final breakthrough for the twins in Sweden.

Not very far from Salming, Forsberg, Sundin and Lidstrom level.
Really? One great tournament would make them comparable to our greatest players ever? Salming, Forsberg and Sundin repeatedly put ut brilliant performances for Tre Kronor and Lidstrom at least was instrumental for us winning a best-on-best competition.

Even with a win tomorrow, the Sedins have yet to reach Zetterberg level only considering their NT performances.

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05-18-2013, 07:36 PM
  #699
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Really? One great tournament would make them comparable to our greatest players ever? Salming, Forsberg and Sundin repeatedly put ut brilliant performances for Tre Kronor and Lidstrom at least was instrumental for us winning a best-on-best competition.

Even with a win tomorrow, the Sedins have yet to reach Zetterberg level only considering their NT performances.
I can't come up with better MVP's in any other WC than the Sedins, they (and Enroth) are this team. Arguments can always be made for goalies but they would win MVP on almost every successful team. Two guys coming in late turning a horrible team to a finalist single-handedly, has that ever happened before? This is IMO definitely on par with those other guy's performances on the national team.

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05-18-2013, 07:43 PM
  #700
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Really? One great tournament would make them comparable to our greatest players ever? Salming, Forsberg and Sundin repeatedly put ut brilliant performances for Tre Kronor and Lidstrom at least was instrumental for us winning a best-on-best competition.

Even with a win tomorrow, the Sedins have yet to reach Zetterberg level only considering their NT performances.
And here comes a third opinion

I think the truth is somewhere in between. They are certainly not on the level of Forsberg and Sundin but Tre Kronor wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of playing the final if it wasn't for the Sedins and when was the last time we saw that kind of impact on a Swedish team........Peter and Mats. The difference with Sundin and Forsberg is that they did it again and again. Still, you could do a whole lot worse than having 1 tournament that bring peoples mind to the great ones

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