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Bernier trade in offseason?

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05-17-2013, 04:34 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Sure, we can agree to disagree with what would make sense and the reasons for it but, can we agree that there is a way to work most of the things discussed under the cap and still ice a competitive team as well as the cap still being flexible?

Because that is really what we have been debating. You don't think it would be wise to ensure you get value out of one of your best assets by making an additional move if needed where I do.

It is all semantics because we both know that our D cannot remain the same and that something regardless of what will be done to address what is happening with regards to WillieM. Things will change no matter what and when they do the cap space we have will also change and until those things happen we don't know exactly how much space we will or won't have to make any decisions about what is or isn't the right thing to do with regards to JB among other things.
But my whole point is that signing JB does not help the team in the long run. Since in order to make room we would have to lose assets that could help not only now but maybe even in the future. And the biggest concern is the fact these choice have to start being made in 45 days. That is why I said I really hope that DL has an idea of really where Mitchell is. Will he be back or is he done? Because that is what really drives the choices made. Along with if some of the vets are willing to take pay cuts to stay with the team. It is also the reason for earlier using the word scheme with DL. If he knows he doesn't want to let other teams know what we have and what we can do. Knowledge is power in that case. Because a team not knowing where Mitchell is could try to make an offer to one of our RFA's thinking we couldn't match were we could.

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05-17-2013, 04:52 PM
  #252
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If we will trade Stoll and Williams (7.15 millions) for draft picks, it is going to help resign Voynov, Penner, Scuds and Regehr to reasonable contracts and match offer for JB.

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05-17-2013, 05:12 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
If we will trade Stoll and Williams (7.15 millions) for draft picks, it is going to help resign Voynov, Penner, Scuds and Regehr to reasonable contracts and match offer for JB.


There is no way the team could lose both oh those players.


It would make a lot more sense to trade Bernier and if Jones isn't deemed ready, sign a cheap journeyman backup

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05-17-2013, 05:23 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
If we will trade Stoll and Williams (7.15 millions) for draft picks, it is going to help resign Voynov, Penner, Scuds and Regehr to reasonable contracts and match offer for JB.
Who's going to replace Stoll in the circle. He was our best face off man by a lot. 56% to Kopi's 53.3. And took the second most face offs on the team. Kopi took 142 more than Stoll but he took 305 more than Richards.
We don't have to lose either one to keep most of those players if not all but JB. And why would we keep him when even if he hasn't said it publicly that he wants to be a starter and knows that won't happen here. He's has been a total professional about it so I don't think we screw with him by trying to force him to stay. We trade him and get what we can. I would actually say trading those two parts would weaken us as a team and make it harder to sign some of those other guys.

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05-17-2013, 05:40 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Who's going to replace Stoll in the circle. He was our best face off man by a lot. 56% to Kopi's 53.3. And took the second most face offs on the team. Kopi took 142 more than Stoll but he took 305 more than Richards.
We don't have to lose either one to keep most of those players if not all but JB. And why would we keep him when even if he hasn't said it publicly that he wants to be a starter and knows that won't happen here. He's has been a total professional about it so I don't think we screw with him by trying to force him to stay. We trade him and get what we can. I would actually say trading those two parts would weaken us as a team and make it harder to sign some of those other guys.
There's no way I'd trade Williams. His cap hit is very reasonable and I love what he brings to the table. I think Stoll/Penner make too much for what they bring. I think for the 2.x million range, i'd keep them both. You know Toffoli is going to take one of those spots.

Voynov is definitely due a raise. We aren't going to be able to keep Regehr/Mitchell and Scuderi. My guess it that Mitchell goes on LTIR and we make offers to Scuderi and Regehr for 3.x. Don't forget that Lewis is also due a raise..probably over 1 mill. Also, Dustin Brown's contract will be up in a couple years.

Still, the team is positioned well for the next 5+ years and if Dean manages our assets well, we should be in great shape!

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05-17-2013, 07:25 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Who's going to replace Stoll in the circle. He was our best face off man by a lot. 56% to Kopi's 53.3. And took the second most face offs on the team. Kopi took 142 more than Stoll but he took 305 more than Richards. We don't have to lose either one to keep most of those players if not all but JB. And why would we keep him when even if he hasn't said it publicly that he wants to be a starter and knows that won't happen here. He's has been a total professional about it so I don't think we screw with him by trying to force him to stay. We trade him and get what we can. I would actually say trading those two parts would weaken us as a team and make it harder to sign some of those other guys.
Who's going to replace Penner? In my opinion he is almost impossible to replace.

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05-17-2013, 07:39 PM
  #257
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Look at what happened in Vancouver. Having two starting goalies is a great problem to have but eventually you need to choose which one you're going to go with. Obviously Quick is L.A's guy so Bernier is the odd man out. Lots of potential options in Calgary, Philadelphia, NYI, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minnesota and NJD. I'd assume DL wants to send him out east so that limits it to Buffalo, New York and Philly. To me New York seems to be the best fit. A first round pick, Bailey and the rights to Thomas for Bernier and one of Scuderi/Regehr/Martinez/Voynov would be fair.

EDIT: Philly could make a great trade partner as well.
Matt Read and a 2nd round pick for Bernier could work.


Last edited by theherritor: 05-17-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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05-17-2013, 08:02 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Who's going to replace Penner? In my opinion he is almost impossible to replace.
In the playoffs I would agree. For the regular season you could replace him with a mannequin.

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05-17-2013, 09:21 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by theherritor View Post
Look at what happened in Vancouver. Having two starting goalies is a great problem to have but eventually you need to choose which one you're going to go with. Obviously Quick is L.A's guy so Bernier is the odd man out. Lots of potential options in Calgary, Philadelphia, NYI, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minnesota and NJD. I'd assume DL wants to send him out east so that limits it to Buffalo, New York and Philly. To me New York seems to be the best fit. A first round pick, Bailey and the rights to Thomas for Bernier and one of Scuderi/Regehr/Martinez/Voynov would be fair.

EDIT: Philly could make a great trade partner as well.
Matt Read and a 2nd round pick for Bernier could work.
No way that deal happens from Isles standpoint. Trading Thomas to another team costs the Isles a 2nd rounder to the Bruins, so it becomes a 1st, 2nd and Bailey. Not happening. Best offer you get from Isles is a 1st and B level prospect.

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05-17-2013, 09:27 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Strometrooper View Post
No way that deal happens from Isles standpoint. Trading Thomas to another team costs the Isles a 2nd rounder to the Bruins, so it becomes a 1st, 2nd and Bailey. Not happening. Best offer you get from Isles is a 1st and B level prospect.
I think LA would decline too seeing that the proposal included the possibility of moving Voynov lol

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05-17-2013, 09:38 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Strometrooper View Post
No way that deal happens from Isles standpoint. Trading Thomas to another team costs the Isles a 2nd rounder to the Bruins, so it becomes a 1st, 2nd and Bailey. Not happening. Best offer you get from Isles is a 1st and B level prospect.
Completely agree, not to mention Thomas could be a cluster**** with that contract and the unknown of what he could do if he demands to comeback next year under that contract. I doubt it, but who knows. If he doesn't get to under that contract, then he's a UFA so why would we want him?

I think a deal around a pick and a prospect for Bernier with LA makes sense, but I see DL at the very least pushing hard for a Matt Martin. Totally agree if NYI doesn't want to move him, but they have to give something and if DL insists on a roster player, NYI will have to decide how bad they want Bernier.

I suspect that NYI doesn't really want him that bad, considering they are reportedly looking at resigning Nabby.

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05-17-2013, 09:54 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theherritor View Post
Look at what happened in Vancouver. Having two starting goalies is a great problem to have but eventually you need to choose which one you're going to go with. Obviously Quick is L.A's guy so Bernier is the odd man out. Lots of potential options in Calgary, Philadelphia, NYI, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minnesota and NJD. I'd assume DL wants to send him out east so that limits it to Buffalo, New York and Philly. To me New York seems to be the best fit. A first round pick, Bailey and the rights to Thomas for Bernier and one of Scuderi/Regehr/Martinez/Voynov would be fair.

EDIT: Philly could make a great trade partner as well.
Matt Read and a 2nd round pick for Bernier could work.
The very idea of this makes my pants fit all funny.

Yes it could work just fine.

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05-18-2013, 05:05 AM
  #263
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Reading the question and answers in Staples fanchat yesterday:

DiPietro- will likely be bought out the summer.

Nabokov-Isles want him back on a 1 yr extension. He's likely to return.

Bernier-Isles called, LA wasn't looking to trade him.

Hiller-Isles would likely be interested if he is on the market.

Halak-another one the Isles would be interested if available.

Khudobin-Isles will have interest in July.

Streit-could get $6m on the ufa market. Not expected back.

draft- expects the team to keep it's 2013 first rounder. This surprised me.I expected he'd say it'll go in a trade.
I am only guessing, but based on his answers I now expect Nabby to split time with whoever Snow adds and we will likely see a move after seeing who teams make available and what Khudobin demands.

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05-18-2013, 06:06 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Reading the question and answers in Staples fanchat yesterday:

DiPietro- will likely be bought out the summer.

Nabokov-Isles want him back on a 1 yr extension. He's likely to return.

Bernier-Isles called, LA wasn't looking to trade him.

Hiller-Isles would likely be interested if he is on the market.

Halak-another one the Isles would be interested if available.

Khudobin-Isles will have interest in July.

Streit-could get $6m on the ufa market. Not expected back.

draft- expects the team to keep it's 2013 first rounder. This surprised me.I expected he'd say it'll go in a trade.
I am only guessing, but based on his answers I now expect Nabby to split time with whoever Snow adds and we will likely see a move after seeing who teams make available and what Khudobin demands.
As much as I appreciate Stapes info as a reporter, Snow has shown time and time again that he does not show his cards to anyone. Maybe Stapes heard Snow called LA in the past, but I assume he knows nothing more than the fans at this time.

Plus I doubt DL is looking a trades at this moment in time. Cup run, cough, cough.

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05-18-2013, 06:55 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Strometrooper View Post
As much as I appreciate Stapes info as a reporter, Snow has shown time and time again that he does not show his cards to anyone. Maybe Stapes heard Snow called LA in the past, but I assume he knows nothing more than the fans at this time.

Plus I doubt DL is looking a trades at this moment in time. Cup run, cough, cough.
I took his comments to mean, that Snow had called about Bernier during the regular season.

His comment that he thought the isles would use this season's #1 pick, leads me to think Snow will kick the tires on Khudobin too, see who's available in July.

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05-18-2013, 09:53 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I took his comments to mean, that Snow had called about Bernier during the regular season.

His comment that he thought the isles would use this season's #1 pick, leads me to think Snow will kick the tires on Khudobin too, see who's available in July.
I think Khudobin would be a very good fit in LI next season. He could split time with Nabokov next season and push for the starter job the following season.

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05-18-2013, 10:07 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I took his comments to mean, that Snow had called about Bernier during the regular season.

His comment that he thought the isles would use this season's #1 pick, leads me to think Snow will kick the tires on Khudobin too, see who's available in July.
The Kings were never going to trade JB during season. Offseason is a whole different matter.

JB now is worth more to the Isles than the 15th pick and vice versa to the Kings. It makes too much sense not to make a deal.

Khubolin is a fine alternative but I am partially to Kings players myself since I follow them.

Once again regarding the comment of using the pick, Snow is blowing proverbial smoke at Stapes.

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05-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #268
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But my whole point is that signing JB does not help the team in the long run. Since in order to make room we would have to lose assets that could help not only now but maybe even in the future. And the biggest concern is the fact these choice have to start being made in 45 days. That is why I said I really hope that DL has an idea of really where Mitchell is. Will he be back or is he done? Because that is what really drives the choices made. Along with if some of the vets are willing to take pay cuts to stay with the team. It is also the reason for earlier using the word scheme with DL. If he knows he doesn't want to let other teams know what we have and what we can do. Knowledge is power in that case. Because a team not knowing where Mitchell is could try to make an offer to one of our RFA's thinking we couldn't match were we could.
Right but again WM's status isn't happening in a vacuum. It is a developing situation that is being addressed in some ways while we speak. WM has had his surgery and is rehabbing. He is already starting to do light skating. That doesn't mean his NHL career will pick back up or that he still won't end up hanging them up. What it does mean is that WM's situation is fluid. It is changing and as it does our understanding of his situation changes too. So, the WM situation will be addressed well within the 44 day limit and however it works out we win.


If WM comes back to the team we have our WM back and no longer need one of either RR or Scudds (if the $3.5 for 5yrs is what he is actually looking for we might need to cut bait anyways).

Giving us

WM
MG
AM
DD
VV
JM
KE

as our D next year. Now I know that isn't a perfect situation but it is still going to be among the top in the league and that D only costs us at best $19m. Leaving plenty of meat on the bone.

If WM doesn't come back we have his $3.5m to spend on his replacement. We can place him on LTIR if needs be or we still have other options available to us too.

This whole rigamarole comes down to our not agreeing on how best to utilize JB. I say we will trade him. I am almost %100 certain that we have a team and a situation lined up already and while that doesn't mean that a deal will be made it does mean that we are thinking pretty hard about what we want to do.

If JB doesn't get dealt then we will try to sign him as close to reasonably as possible and then continue to try and deal him still retaining his value. IF JB wants more we go the arbitration route and see what happens. He will still end up being traded.

IF IF IF JB receives an offer sheet that will be one where he feels he is going to be not only given a shot to be a starter with but also with a team that is pretty much ready to at least be competitive and playoff worthy and for the right amount of money then so long as the offer is above $3.134.087 he will sign it and we will let him leave.

If it isn't then we will have the cap space and the resources to match the offer. Then we will again have for one more season the best goaltending tandem in the league. Remember DL truly built this team from the net out (arguably started with D but only slightly) and our success rides directly on our strength in net.

I know it is more popular for some to get a big sexy name for our top 6 (or someone who can score 12 goals during the reg season) or to sign another big name Vet D but having the best goaltending tandem in the NHL can be just as or even more valuable to us depending on how things go.

We started discussing this whole thing when you said that the cap was written in stone and I said that if we had to we can find the room regarding JB. I think it is clear that if we have to we can find the room and remain competitive and that it has proven throughout this thread.

We all are merely speculating on the amounts that certain players will or won't make really but there isn't any doubt that there is room in the cap to both remain a true contender and still not throw away one of our most valuable assets in the process.


Last edited by etherialone: 05-18-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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05-18-2013, 04:20 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Right but again WM's status isn't happening in a vacuum. It is a developing situation that is being addressed in some ways while we speak. WM has had his surgery and is rehabbing. He is already starting to do light skating. That doesn't mean his NHL career will pick back up or that he still won't end up hanging them up. What it does mean is that WM's situation is fluid. It is changing and as it does our understanding of his situation changes too. So, the WM situation will be addressed well within the 44 day limit and however it works out we win.


If WM comes back to the team we have our WM back and no longer need one of either RR or Scudds (if the $3.5 for 5yrs is what he is actually looking for we might need to cut bait anyways).

Giving us

WM
MG
AM
DD
VV
JM
KE

as our D next year. Now I know that isn't a perfect situation but it is still going to be among the top in the league and that D only costs us at best $19m. Leaving plenty of meat on the bone.

If WM doesn't come back we have his $3.5m to spend on his replacement. We can place him on LTIR if needs be or we still have other options available to us too.

This whole rigamarole comes down to our not agreeing on how best to utilize JB. I say we will trade him. I am almost %100 certain that we have a team and a situation lined up already and while that doesn't mean that a deal will be made it does mean that we are thinking pretty hard about what we want to do.

If JB doesn't get dealt then we will try to sign him as close to reasonably as possible and then continue to try and deal him still retaining his value. IF JB wants more we go the arbitration route and see what happens. He will still end up being traded.

IF IF IF JB receives an offer sheet that will be one where he feels he is going to be not only given a shot to be a starter with but also with a team that is pretty much ready to at least be competitive and playoff worthy and for the right amount of money then so long as the offer is above $3.134.087 he will sign it and we will let him leave.

If it isn't then we will have the cap space and the resources to match the offer. Then we will again have for one more season the best goaltending tandem in the league. Remember DL truly built this team from the net out (arguably started with D but only slightly) and our success rides directly on our strength in net.

I know it is more popular for some to get a big sexy name for our top 6 (or someone who can score 12 goals during the reg season) or to sign another big name Vet D but having the best goaltending tandem in the NHL can be just as or even more valuable to us depending on how things go.

We started discussing this whole thing when you said that the cap was written in stone and I said that if we had to we can find the room regarding JB. I think it is clear that if we have to we can find the room and remain competitive and that it has proven throughout this thread.

We all are merely speculating on the amounts that certain players will or won't make really but there isn't any doubt that there is room in the cap to both remain a true contender and still not throw away one of our most valuable assets in the process.
The only things I'd add is that IMO If Bernier signs an offer sheet it's to become a starter first and foremost and the teams current chance at success really takes a backseat. Also as pointed out by you others need to realize that most teams will be icing a weaker version due to the lower cap and players will be available to fill certain spots via trade

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05-18-2013, 04:29 PM
  #270
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Trade Bernier for Nino and a additional pick! Nino as been fantastic for Swiss this WC.

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05-18-2013, 04:33 PM
  #271
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The only things I'd add is that IMO If Bernier signs an offer sheet it's to become a starter first and foremost and the teams current chance at success really takes a backseat. Also as pointed out by you others need to realize that most teams will be icing a weaker version due to the lower cap and players will be available to fill certain spots via trade
When JB goes we will be replacing him (not him particularly but another roster spot) with back up goalie from within. Jones will get his shot. He is as ready as he is going to be. But we will also likely be making a secondary move to make room for our upgrade received by moving JB.

That will likely be by allowing DP to hit move along (with our thanks for his services. All the best to DP) as well as allowing Richardson and more than likely one of Scuderi and or RR. I believe that even if WM goes on LTIR that we will see one of either Scuds, Rhehghehr A Mart or Ellerby leaving and one or more remaining. In other words I see changes coming to our D next season and that we will be making further more obvious changes to our forward ranks.

With Toffi likely have earned his spot already I see us bringing in one more of our kid forwards, possibly two as well.

Going to be an interesting season for us and I think a great one too.

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05-18-2013, 05:31 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
When JB goes we will be replacing him (not him particularly but another roster spot) with back up goalie from within. Jones will get his shot. He is as ready as he is going to be. But we will also likely be making a secondary move to make room for our upgrade received by moving JB. That will likely be by allowing DP to hit move along (with our thanks for his services. All the best to DP) as well as allowing Richardson and more than likely one of Scuderi and or RR. I believe that even if WM goes on LTIR that we will see one of either Scuds, Rhehghehr A Mart or Ellerby leaving and one or more remaining. In other words I see changes coming to our D next season and that we will be making further more obvious changes to our forward ranks. With Toffi likely have earned his spot already I see us bringing in one more of our kid forwards, possibly two as well. Going to be an interesting season for us and I think a great one too.
With highest respect to your opinion, I would keep DP and Regehr, let Scuds leave and trade Stoll and A Mart.

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05-18-2013, 05:36 PM
  #273
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With highest respect to your opinion, I would keep DP and Regehr, let Scuds leave and trade Stoll and A Mart.
You think Penner is almost impossible to replace yet you think our best face off man is not? Not sure I understand that reasoning. Stoll to me is the one that is almost impossible to replace. It's not just the face offs but the PK time he puts in and does so well at.
I have said in the past I can see Martinez getting moved right along with JB to get a much better return. But that all hinges on what is going to happen with Mitchell. And what if anything DL knows about his recovery and his hopes of returning. I know what has been said in public but none of us know what has been said behind closed doors.

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05-18-2013, 05:52 PM
  #274
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You think Penner is almost impossible to replace yet you think our best face off man is not? Not sure I understand that reasoning. Stoll to me is the one that is almost impossible to replace. It's not just the face offs but the PK time he puts in and does so well at. I have said in the past I can see Martinez getting moved right along with JB to get a much better return. But that all hinges on what is going to happen with Mitchell. And what if anything DL knows about his recovery and his hopes of returning. I know what has been said in public but none of us know what has been said behind closed doors.

Please, give me name of one of our prospects who are going to replace Penner.
I can see a few prospects who has chance to replace Stoll (Shore, Andreoff).

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05-18-2013, 05:54 PM
  #275
jimmy1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Please, give me name of one of our prospects who are going to replace Penner.
I can see a few prospects who has chance to replace Stoll (Shore, Andreoff).
Pearson, I would imagine. Big, strong, plays well in the corners and can score goals.

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