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Old
05-18-2013, 01:55 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Beardacus View Post
He lost something last year during the post season and I haven't really seen vintage Cally reappear this season outside of 1-2 games.

There were rumors about an injury that never surfaced last PO season, but either the guy is just too banged up, too tired, or his heart isn't in it anymore. Maybe having the kid made him a bit more weary to big hits? Who knows.
Spot on. That was when the switch occurred.

He had a terrible regular season and his post season has been just as bad.

He doesn't throw hits anymore.

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05-18-2013, 02:02 PM
  #302
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I don't know where "Callahan doesn't hit anymore" comes from. He was on pace to shatter his career high in hits during the regular season and he's averaged over 4.5 a game in the playoffs which comes out to 369 over 82 games. The NHL single season record is 374. Hitting is not a problem.

The problem with Callahan is he doesn't ****ing score anymore, and hasn't had a powerplay goal in what feels like 10 years. Seriously, does anyone even remember his last PP goal?

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05-18-2013, 02:09 PM
  #303
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Criticizing Callahan for his contract or his abundance of minutes is one thing. Fine, a legitimate criticism.

Getting on him for having a "losers mentality" or being the result of "content with mediocrity" is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time.

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05-18-2013, 02:23 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't know where "Callahan doesn't hit anymore" comes from. He was on pace to shatter his career high in hits during the regular season and he's averaged over 4.5 a game in the playoffs which comes out to 369 over 82 games. The NHL single season record is 374. Hitting is not a problem.

The problem with Callahan is he doesn't ****ing score anymore, and hasn't had a powerplay goal in what feels like 10 years. Seriously, does anyone even remember his last PP goal?
He was tearing it up in the final stretch of the regular season. Not on the powerplay, but he scores 90% of those powerplay goals on the rebound infront of the tender, and when the other 4 players don't put the puck to the net....

In the regular season, this would just be a bad stretch of games. 1 goal, 3 assists in 8 games is well below what we expect of him.

Wow. That's actually terrifying. Brass leads the team with 10 points. the next 3? 5, 5, and 4. (Hags, Step, Cally)


Sorry, how the hell did we beat the Caps?

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05-18-2013, 02:25 PM
  #305
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The problem with Callahan is he doesn't ****ing score anymore, and hasn't had a powerplay goal in what feels like 10 years. Seriously, does anyone even remember his last PP goal?
Pfft... I don't even remember the last PP goal the team had

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05-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #306
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I think it was Girardi's

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05-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't know where "Callahan doesn't hit anymore" comes from. He was on pace to shatter his career high in hits during the regular season and he's averaged over 4.5 a game in the playoffs which comes out to 369 over 82 games. The NHL single season record is 374. Hitting is not a problem.

The problem with Callahan is he doesn't ****ing score anymore, and hasn't had a powerplay goal in what feels like 10 years. Seriously, does anyone even remember his last PP goal?
Callahan used to make momentum shifting hits everytime he was on the ice.

He simply does not do that anymore. His physical play has been ineffective for nearly a year now.

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05-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #308
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Callahan is effective on the PP when he is screening the goalie and causing deflections. Instead of doing that, he is contributing to the suckage on the PP by trying to snipe goals (and missing by a mile) and making ill-advised passes.

He has made some real questionable decisions on the PK as well - playing around with the puck and turning it over instead of going for the clear. Callahan really needs to simplify all aspects of his game right now.

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05-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I should know better to respond, but, well...

2. Those intangibles are painfully obvious to anyone who watches him play, and most of the time are very much tangible off the score sheet, including being the teams #1 penalty killing forward, consistently finishing top 10 in the league in hits among forwards, solid defensive play, and so on.
Those intangibles are evident when the team and individual player is having success. The Rangers this past season success didn't rely heavily on Callahan at all. He is not an great defensive forward and being top 10 in hits/blocked shots doesn't mean much other than chasing the opponent all the time.

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3. Nobody has excused him from having a subpar playoffs. Everyone on this board, including Machinehead and myself have expressed concern about his play. The reason we're not livid is because unlike many other players, he's still acting as an asset despite his slump. He's still blocking shots, throwing hits, trying to get in on the forecheck. His offense has been atrocious, but you can tell that the effort is there; possibly too much effort, the man is gripping the stick too tight.
I don't deny his effort, he does give it his all most of the time. It's just that giving effort isn't good enough. He should be a 3rd line player, but is leading league in TOI/PG amongst forwards again in the playoffs (only 5 secs behind Kesler). That is simply inexcusable for the quality of player being put out there. Can't teach talent.

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4. The media isn't going to say a damn word about Ryan Callahan until Rick Nash scores a goal.
Which is wrong. Has there been one article published critiquing the captaincy? Nope. It's always Fire Torts here trade x Player there.

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5. There seems to be this myth that Drury was terrible here. his first 2 years, he was pushing 60 points. He contracted a degenerative knee disease, and that was the end of it.
Drury was awful in 2009 IMO. That was when the Rangers willingly let go off Jagr, Nylander and Straka and decided Drury and Gomez were going to lead the next generation Rangers. Problem was, Chris Drury has always been a 2nd line player and they expected him to perform at a 1st line rate. With his injury history and lack of production career wise, management seemed to be deluded in his capabilities. I see the exact same thing with Callahan, except Drury was less injury prone and the more proven player with a SC ring with the Avs.

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05-18-2013, 03:05 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Selective memory at it's finest. Callahan was key down the stretch the last 3 seasons. Callahan ain't goin anywhere Kershaw, might as well hop on the Penguins bandwagon, I hear they're recruiting.
lol.

Why is my legitimacy of my fanhood questioned when I express my views on Ryan Callahan? I don't tell anyone else to cheer for another team when they're suggesting to trade Boyle or Del Zotto or Girardi.

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05-18-2013, 03:12 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Criticizing Callahan for his contract or his abundance of minutes is one thing. Fine, a legitimate criticism.

Getting on him for having a "losers mentality" or being the result of "content with mediocrity" is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time.
Perhaps I am a bit too harsh on him, I agree.

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05-18-2013, 03:22 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Those intangibles are evident when the team and individual player is having success. The Rangers this past season success didn't rely heavily on Callahan at all. He is not an great defensive forward and being top 10 in hits/blocked shots doesn't mean much other than chasing the opponent all the time.
This past season was half of a normal season. There's only so much you can take from, almost literally, half a season.

As for him being not a great defensive forward, I think the majority of HFboards, the NHL, the coaching staff, and whoever votes on the Selke (GMs?) disagree with you entirely.

Dismissing being that high in hits and blocked shots is willful ignorance. We saw the effect playing that kind of physical game has on an opposing team: Washington was WORN DOWN. Specifically, look at the Callahan/Erskine battle that took place. The beginning of the series, those two were slamming each other every which way. Eventually, Erskine started to show wear and tear, and by game 4 was their absolute worst D-Man.

Hell, if you followed Caps media, Erskine was feeling awful after Cally's hit in game 3. He nearly didn't play.

The team lives and dies on blocked shots. I know you hate it, but that's how Torts is playing it, and Cally does it as well as anyone. Dont just dismiss that as chasing the opponent: if it was that meaningless, our entire defensive system wouldn't be based on it

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I don't deny his effort, he does give it his all most of the time. It's just that giving effort isn't good enough. He should be a 3rd line player, but is leading league in TOI/PG amongst forwards again in the playoffs (only 5 secs behind Kesler). That is simply inexcusable for the quality of player being put out there. Can't teach talent.
Show me a 3rd line player that produces the way Callahan does, and I'll show you a team with 4 top line wingers. The only one I could possibly think of is Pitt.

You keep citing his ice time, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't make the call to put himself out there. That issue is with Torts.

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Which is wrong. Has there been one article published critiquing the captaincy? Nope. It's always Fire Torts here trade x Player there.
Because in two years of Captaincy, his first year saw him as a finalist for a Leadership award, a first place finish in the east, and a trip to the Conference finals. His second year saw a TURBULENT season with massive roster turnover and a 6th place finish, and so far, we're in the 2nd round. Both years he received an Extra Effort award, though this year i think it should have gone to Step

That's a REALLY good first 2 years as a captain.

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Drury was awful in 2009 IMO. That was when the Rangers willingly let go off Jagr, Nylander and Straka and decided Drury and Gomez were going to lead the next generation Rangers. Problem was, Chris Drury has always been a 2nd line player and they expected him to perform at a 1st line rate. With his injury history and lack of production career wise, management seemed to be deluded in his capabilities. I see the exact same thing with Callahan, except Drury was less injury prone and the more proven player with a SC ring with the Avs.
Are you talking 08-09, or 09-10? That's when his knee started to go, and it was like two different players.

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05-18-2013, 03:44 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
lol.

Why is my legitimacy of my fanhood questioned when I express my views on Ryan Callahan? I don't tell anyone else to cheer for another team when they're suggesting to trade Boyle or Del Zotto or Girardi.
I'm busting your balls man, trust me, I'm used to the Callahan is a mediocre hockey player talk from you...I just wonder when he scored 29 goals last year, and missed a bunch of games due to injury, were you saying these same exact things? Or are these concerns only coming out during this lockout-shortened 48 game season where a number of elite players struggled throughout the majority of the season? (Not calling Callahan elite, just making a point)

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05-18-2013, 03:46 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
I'm busting your balls man, trust me, I'm used to the Callahan is a mediocre hockey player talk from you...I just wonder when he scored 29 goals last year, and missed a bunch of games due to injury, were you saying these same exact things? Or are these concerns only coming out during this lockout-shortened 48 game season where a number of elite players struggled throughout the majority of the season? (Not calling Callahan elite, just making a point)
Yes. He was.

Edit: Say what you will but at least he's consistent. We used to be able to set traps for him on the main boards!

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=15

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05-18-2013, 03:52 PM
  #315
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Meh, I just don't like Callahan anymore because he is a whiner and diver. I just noticed it this year. He embelishes everything. And I always see him yapping to the refs. Just play the game.

That said, his work ethic is fantastic. I just wish he didn't do those two things. I also wish he could actually elevate his play when it mattered (playoffs) because right now he hasn't and he's a big reason why we are struggling in every series. He has to be better.

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05-18-2013, 04:22 PM
  #316
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Isn't a Captain's job to actually talk to the Refs?

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05-18-2013, 04:22 PM
  #317
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Callahan is an excellent, two way player but he's overrated by a lot of Rangers fans. He's really just an average playoff guy. Nothing more.

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05-18-2013, 04:28 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Isn't a Captain's job to actually talk to the Refs?
Talking to the refs and the appearance of whining are two different things.

I'm a hardcore Ranger fan, and I can objective state I think Callahan is someone who embellishes and whines. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, especially if he plays a complete game like Callahan typically plays. But even in the post season this year, I see him as a player constantly looking to the referees for a call, when he should just play the game.

And I'd throw all of that out the window if he could make a difference in the post season. But just like Nash and Richards, I see Callahan not meeting expectations. And for the team to be better, the Captain has to step up and score some big goals when it matters. The only goal he scored was in a game against the Capitals that we had already won, and wasn't all that meaningful.

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05-18-2013, 04:32 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
This past season was half of a normal season. There's only so much you can take from, almost literally, half a season.

As for him being not a great defensive forward, I think the majority of HFboards, the NHL, the coaching staff, and whoever votes on the Selke (GMs?) disagree with you entirely.

Dismissing being that high in hits and blocked shots is willful ignorance. We saw the effect playing that kind of physical game has on an opposing team: Washington was WORN DOWN. Specifically, look at the Callahan/Erskine battle that took place. The beginning of the series, those two were slamming each other every which way. Eventually, Erskine started to show wear and tear, and by game 4 was their absolute worst D-Man.

Hell, if you followed Caps media, Erskine was feeling awful after Cally's hit in game 3. He nearly didn't play.
John Erskine is an absolute scrub defenseman, so it's not saying much that he was the Caps worst dman lol.

Adding onto the point, the team gets heavily outchanced when he's on the ice. This has been ongoing for 2 yrs straight. Before the Chara slapshot in 10-11, I thought he was an excellent defensive player as teams were usually outchanced when Callahan was on the ice. Perhaps it was the Dubinsky effect, one of the best possession players in the league having a career season that year.

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The team lives and dies on blocked shots. I know you hate it, but that's how Torts is playing it, and Cally does it as well as anyone. Dont just dismiss that as chasing the opponent: if it was that meaningless, our entire defensive system wouldn't be based on it
This is why he's a problem. If you don't like John Tortorella's system than you shouldn't like Ryan Callahan caliber player, who is fit for the system. If you like hockey where a team likes being hemmed in own zone, uses the boards to get puck out instead of middle of the ice, retorting to sliding to block shots and giving opposing team a lot of puck possession, well he's probably the type of player you'd want to lead this team. AKA Stone Age Hockey.

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Show me a 3rd line player that produces the way Callahan does, and I'll show you a team with 4 top line wingers. The only one I could possibly think of is Pitt.
A 3rd line player can get gobs of PP time and top ES time with team's best offensive players with soft zone starts and put up points. It's happened many times before. Brooks Laich, Shawn Horcoff, Dainus Zubrus are 3rd liners that put up 50-60 pt seasons.

RWers by depth chart who are just as good as Callahan (In my opinion):

Pittsburgh: Jarome Iginla, Pascal Dupuis
Chicago: Patrick Kane, Marian Hossa
Los Angeles: Justin Williams, Jeff Carter
Boston: Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Jaromir Jagr
Toronto: Phil Kessel, Joffery Lupul
Anaheim: Bobby Ryan, Correy Perry, Teemu Selanne
St. Louis: TJ Oshie, David Backes, Alexander Steen, Chris Stewart (Backes and Oshie alternate RW and C)
San Jose: Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture (Both played RW a lot early in yr)

etc etc

I can go on and on, but I think he's an average 2nd line on average team to 3rd line player on contending team.


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You keep citing his ice time, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't make the call to put himself out there. That issue is with Torts.
Not only Torts, but the whole management team and pro scouting department that decided he was good enough to have 2nd most ice time per game in playoffs and top 5 in regular season.

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Because in two years of Captaincy, his first year saw him as a finalist for a Leadership award, a first place finish in the east, and a trip to the Conference finals. His second year saw a TURBULENT season with massive roster turnover and a 6th place finish, and so far, we're in the 2nd round. Both years he received an Extra Effort award, though this year i think it should have gone to Step

That's a REALLY good first 2 years as a captain.
Yet he completely under-performs in both post seasons.

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Are you talking 08-09, or 09-10? That's when his knee started to go, and it was like two different players.
08-09. The dreaded season where Scott Gomez and Chris Drury lead the team in scoring.

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05-18-2013, 04:33 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Spot on. That was when the switch occurred.

He had a terrible regular season and his post season has been just as bad.

He doesn't throw hits anymore.
May I ask where you're pulling this information from? Callahan had a good year that would have been great if he was a little healthier.

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05-18-2013, 04:36 PM
  #321
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i'm busting your balls man, trust me, i'm used to the callahan is a mediocre hockey player talk from you...i just wonder when he scored 29 goals last year, and missed a bunch of games due to injury, were you saying these same exact things? Or are these concerns only coming out during this lockout-shortened 48 game season where a number of elite players struggled throughout the majority of the season? (not calling callahan elite, just making a point)
david clarkson scored 30g. Goals aren't exactly the whole barometer of a player being a 1st line guy. He's a 2nd-3rd line player depending on the team. I just don't see the fascination in him personally. Nyr fans get so worked up when one speaks negative about him, something i haven't seen before. So much praise for a very average hockey player.

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05-18-2013, 05:09 PM
  #322
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May I ask where you're pulling this information from? Callahan had a good year that would have been great if he was a little healthier.
He had a great season on hockeydb.

Callahan was not nearly the difference-maker he was last season. He was one of this seasons biggest disappointments.

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05-18-2013, 05:21 PM
  #323
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John Erskine is an absolute scrub defenseman, so it's not saying much that he was the Caps worst dman lol.
Erskine had been playing as a #3/4 for them through the regular season, and had actually been doing really well. He came "back to earth" during that series

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Adding onto the point, the team gets heavily outchanced when he's on the ice. This has been ongoing for 2 yrs straight. Before the Chara slapshot in 10-11, I thought he was an excellent defensive player as teams were usually outchanced when Callahan was on the ice. Perhaps it was the Dubinsky effect, one of the best possession players in the league having a career season that year.
I agree that the team, and Cally, desperately miss Dubinsky. He was the perfect winger for Cally. That said, I disagree on the notion that the team is outchanced, and if they are, I suggest taking a look at the competition he's facing. Torts always, always, puts his line out against the teams #1. He played nearly every shift against OV's line in the past round, and that line's forechecking and cycling was a large part of why Ovechkin was kept off the scoreboard. Cally may not have lit up the offense in that series, but he had more than a positive impact on it.

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This is why he's a problem. If you don't like John Tortorella's system than you shouldn't like Ryan Callahan caliber player, who is fit for the system. If you like hockey where a team likes being hemmed in own zone, uses the boards to get puck out instead of middle of the ice, retorting to sliding to block shots and giving opposing team a lot of puck possession, well he's probably the type of player you'd want to lead this team. AKA Stone Age Hockey.
That issue isn't with Cally. That's with Torts and Sather. You don't blame the tool when the user makes a mistake.

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A 3rd line player can get gobs of PP time and top ES time with team's best offensive players with soft zone starts and put up points. It's happened many times before. Brooks Laich, Shawn Horcoff, Dainus Zubrus are 3rd liners that put up 50-60 pt seasons.

RWers by depth chart who are just as good as Callahan (In my opinion):

Pittsburgh: Jarome Iginla, Pascal Dupuis
Chicago: Patrick Kane, Marian Hossa
Los Angeles: Justin Williams, Jeff Carter
Boston: Tyler Seguin, Nathan Horton, Jaromir Jagr
Toronto: Phil Kessel, Joffery Lupul
Anaheim: Bobby Ryan, Correy Perry, Teemu Selanne
St. Louis: TJ Oshie, David Backes, Alexander Steen, Chris Stewart (Backes and Oshie alternate RW and C)
San Jose: Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture (Both played RW a lot early in yr)

etc etc

I can go on and on, but I think he's an average 2nd line on average team to 3rd line player on contending team.
Laich and Horcoff are still very good players. Zubie had 2 really good seasons, and never scratched that again. He got slow.

I agree with most of your list, but look at those names. Those are some god damn good names to have on your hockey club.

I think you have unrealistic expectations for a Top 9 (like, Pittsburgh unrealistic), and I don't think a team needs to be that stacked to win

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Not only Torts, but the whole management team and pro scouting department that decided he was good enough to have 2nd most ice time per game in playoffs and top 5 in regular season.
Hes a versatile player. I don't know why you're holding that against him.

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Yet he completely under-performs in both post seasons.
And if he has a single goal tomorrow, he'll be tied for 2nd on the team, along with our new #1 center. 8 games is a tiny sample size. One hot streak and he goes from goat to hero. It's a bloody joke the way we use revisionist mentality based on point totals.

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05-18-2013, 05:25 PM
  #324
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Horcoff sucks. lol.

Wouldn't compare him to Callahan, though. They're different players.

All Callahan needs to do is keep it simple. He is at his best when he's playing a straight-line game. None of this criss-cross, fancy puck carrying BS. He needs to get to the blue/red line, dump it in, and lay a check. He's falling into the trap that Dubinsky fell into — he's trying to be something he's not.

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05-18-2013, 07:55 PM
  #325
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Jagr at this stage of his career brings Callahan's impact? Chris "lazy" Stewart?

Selanne, Kessel? Those are threats for 35+ goals a season, as is Iginla. Oshie is a good comparison, NOT Jagr, and not Kessel.

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