HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Chi-Fla

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-18-2013, 12:47 PM
  #26
Ludicrous Speed
Registered User
 
Ludicrous Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Killumbus
Country: Micronesia
Posts: 10,980
vCash: 500
I'm curious, if the Hawks were to offer up this package, what would you expect the return to be? Or would you simply not offer a package like this in the first place? To me it seems Florida gets absolutely hosed and that Chicago, while it doesn't necessarily make sense to do this deal, makes out like bandits. None of the pieces being given up would reach the value of Mackinnon's, and you would get that other top 6 center I keep hearing is a missing piece. You would almost immediately have the second best 1-2 center combination in the league.

Ludicrous Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2013, 01:21 PM
  #27
ROBERTSMITH
#ThisIsOurYear
 
ROBERTSMITH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 475
vCash: 500
Why would Florida do this?

ROBERTSMITH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2013, 02:10 PM
  #28
zytz
lumberjack
 
zytz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,786
vCash: 500
Pass from Chicago - I really don't think MacKinnon is going to hit his potential... I see him topping out as a second liner, 50-60pts a yr guy. TT may not hit his potential either, I feel he's boom/bust and his success will depend almost entirely on his transition to NA ice. Leddy is going to be a special defenseman though, a top pairing puck mover for the majority of his career, IMO, and that's not something the Hawks should part with.

Honestly one of the only guys I'd be interested in the hawks trading up for would be Monahan, but our system is so full I wouldn't want to part with much other than UFAs or prospects.

zytz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2013, 03:53 PM
  #29
internetdotcom
11 + 15 + 19 = 666
 
internetdotcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Capital O
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,552
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to internetdotcom Send a message via Yahoo to internetdotcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Pass from Chicago - I really don't think MacKinnon is going to hit his potential... I see him topping out as a second liner, 50-60pts a yr guy. TT may not hit his potential either, I feel he's boom/bust and his success will depend almost entirely on his transition to NA ice. Leddy is going to be a special defenseman though, a top pairing puck mover for the majority of his career, IMO, and that's not something the Hawks should part with.

Honestly one of the only guys I'd be interested in the hawks trading up for would be Monahan, but our system is so full I wouldn't want to part with much other than UFAs or prospects.
Why would middling prospects and UFA rights entice anyone in Monahan's range to trade that pick? Put yourself in the situation of the teams in that range, and ask yourself would you trade a blue chip prospect like Monahan for UFA rights and mid prospects?

Would you trade a guy like Toews or Kane (who admittedly have some more value than Monahan, but the principle holds) for UFA rights and 'ok' prospects?

internetdotcom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2013, 08:39 PM
  #30
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I saw tht article. It mentioned tallon owed the Blackhawks a favor. Tht was all I needed to stop reading.
Keep dreaming if you think you can acquire Nathan mackinnon for leddy and an undersized center who was drafted at 18 last year.
That, "undersized for", is an inch shorter than Nathan MacKinnon - if that. But, that doesn't matter, the only thing you know (judging from your post) about Teravainen is what you can gather from Youtube video's and a quick glance at his EliteProspects page.

Draft position means nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacJokinen View Post
TOP15 prospect in the NHL even if he was drafted 18th overall last year? Not even close.

Keep dreaming but you won't get a potential superstar with quantity trades. Only in video games..
Teravainen is a top-15 NHL prospect.

Again, draft position means nothing.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1381


Here's all I'm going to say about this deal, from Chicago's POV. Since we're all assuming that MacKinnon's going to hit his ceiling and become a 90-point (35G, 55A) forward in the NHL, lets assume Teravainen becomes top-6, 65-point (25G, 40A) forward in the NHL and Leddy becomes a #3, 40-point (8-10G, 30-32A) Dman and that the 1st round pick Chicago also gives up, goes on to become a top-9, 35-point (15G, 20A) forward.. why would Chicago, who already has Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, etc. give up all of that, for another elite (Expensive!) forward?

I get why Florida fans don't want to do this. I don't know why DTMB makes threads. But that's an extremely valuable package Chicago's giving up. Teravainen and Leddy have very high ceilings and Leddy's going to be going into his 4th NHL season next year, at the ripe old age of 22.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2013, 08:45 PM
  #31
AwesomePanthers
Go Quacks!
 
AwesomePanthers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 8,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post

Teravainen is a top-15 NHL prospect.

Again, draft position means nothing.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1381
Hockeyprospectus is your source to back up your statement? Come on.

Teravainen is not a top15 prospect.

AwesomePanthers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2013, 08:56 PM
  #32
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Hockeyprospectus is your source to back up your statement? Come on.

Teravainen is not a top15 prospect.
What's wrong with HockeyProspectus? Enlighten me. I'd love to hear it. Oh, I already can.. "Corey Pronman isn't this", "he doesn't that".. but what I'm really hearing is.. "Oh, you brought up a hockey site that proves your point? ****. Well, uh.. hockeyprospectus, really? Crap, crap, ********, ********, blah, blah".

Teravainen is a top-15 prospect.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2013, 12:31 AM
  #33
zytz
lumberjack
 
zytz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,786
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Why would middling prospects and UFA rights entice anyone in Monahan's range to trade that pick? Put yourself in the situation of the teams in that range, and ask yourself would you trade a blue chip prospect like Monahan for UFA rights and mid prospects?

Would you trade a guy like Toews or Kane (who admittedly have some more value than Monahan, but the principle holds) for UFA rights and 'ok' prospects?
If Im in a position to pick Monahan, then no, I don't make this trade. All Im saying is that it doesn't really make sense for the Hawks to trade up unless its that sort of deal. I really don't expect that it I'll happen.

zytz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2013, 03:43 AM
  #34
AwesomePanthers
Go Quacks!
 
AwesomePanthers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 8,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
What's wrong with HockeyProspectus? Enlighten me. I'd love to hear it. Oh, I already can.. "Corey Pronman isn't this", "he doesn't that".. but what I'm really hearing is.. "Oh, you brought up a hockey site that proves your point? ****. Well, uh.. hockeyprospectus, really? Crap, crap, ********, ********, blah, blah".

Teravainen is a top-15 prospect.
Because his list is different that EVERY other list that is ranking top prospects.

I can give you one example he ranked/ranks Detroits prospect-pool as the best in the league, and that says enough about that.

Come on, look at that list, I see at least 10-20 prospects that are over him. Terävainen wasn't even top15 in his own draft class. I know much can change after the draft, but Terävainen in the top15 is ridiculous.

AwesomePanthers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2013, 06:44 AM
  #35
SufferingCatFan
Registered User
 
SufferingCatFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: fort lauderdale
Country: United States
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
We can debate the relative value of prospects endlessly. However, the proposed trade fails on another basis--Florida's needs. We already have Kulikov so we don't need Leddy and also have prospects in the system. We also have a ton of 2nd line forwards and prospects. We do not have a legitimate No. 1 center prospect and will not be able to get one with the Hawks late first rounder.

SufferingCatFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2013, 07:32 AM
  #36
Coolburn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: South Florida
Country: Hungary
Posts: 7,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Coolburn Send a message via MSN to Coolburn Send a message via Yahoo to Coolburn
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
What's wrong with HockeyProspectus? Enlighten me. I'd love to hear it. Oh, I already can.. "Corey Pronman isn't this", "he doesn't that".. but what I'm really hearing is.. "Oh, you brought up a hockey site that proves your point? ****. Well, uh.. hockeyprospectus, really? Crap, crap, ********, ********, blah, blah".

Teravainen is a top-15 prospect.
I'll give you 2 different places where he's NOT a top 15 prospect and I'm sure there are others too.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9601

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospec...2012-13/page/5

Not in the top 30 in the first one and not even top 45 in HF's own ranking. That doesn't mean he's not a quality prospect but isn't a top 15 prospect.

Coolburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2013, 12:53 PM
  #37
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 23,923
vCash: 500
hawks trade a young Top4 D, their top prospect that magically fall to them last year and a late 1st for 1 other prospect?

god no thats bad

Bubba88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-19-2013, 09:56 PM
  #38
HockeySensible
Smug Teuvo
 
HockeySensible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Because his list is different that EVERY other list that is ranking top prospects.

I can give you one example he ranked/ranks Detroits prospect-pool as the best in the league, and that says enough about that.

Come on, look at that list, I see at least 10-20 prospects that are over him. Terävainen wasn't even top15 in his own draft class. I know much can change after the draft, but Terävainen in the top15 is ridiculous.
It's all opinion. You can't quantify prospect 'x' over 'y' when talent levels are close. It boils down to opinion.

Again, it's opinion. What makes HF's opinion right? Or TSN's? TSN had Brett Ritchie ranked #11, in the entire NHL. I guess that discredits their entire rankings.

HF has Max Reinhart and Teuvo Teravainen's/Brandon Saad's upsides at 7.5. Really? Max Reinhart? I guess that discredits every HF ranking.

Teravainen being in the top-15 is ridiculous in your opinion. I wonder what you would have said about Saad being a top-20 prospect last year. Oh, I can hear it now:

"Seriously? He wasn't even drafted in the 1st round. He's was passed over twice by tons of teams.", blah, blah, blah.

There were enough hockey minds that believed Teravainen was a top-5 pick last year, and the consensus among scouts was that he was a top-7 pick. His offensive upside was compared to Yakupov and Galchenyuk and his hands were rated as one of, it not the best in his draft class. The only reason you find it ridiculous that anyone would rank Teuvo as a top-15 prospect is because you know next to nothing about Teravainen.

/thread.

HockeySensible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2013, 06:19 AM
  #39
AwesomePanthers
Go Quacks!
 
AwesomePanthers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Norway
Posts: 8,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
It's all opinion. You can't quantify prospect 'x' over 'y' when talent levels are close. It boils down to opinion.

Again, it's opinion. What makes HF's opinion right? Or TSN's? TSN had Brett Ritchie ranked #11, in the entire NHL. I guess that discredits their entire rankings.

HF has Max Reinhart and Teuvo Teravainen's/Brandon Saad's upsides at 7.5. Really? Max Reinhart? I guess that discredits every HF ranking.

Teravainen being in the top-15 is ridiculous in your opinion. I wonder what you would have said about Saad being a top-20 prospect last year. Oh, I can hear it now:

"Seriously? He wasn't even drafted in the 1st round. He's was passed over twice by tons of teams.", blah, blah, blah.

There were enough hockey minds that believed Teravainen was a top-5 pick last year, and the consensus among scouts was that he was a top-7 pick. His offensive upside was compared to Yakupov and Galchenyuk and his hands were rated as one of, it not the best in his draft class. The only reason you find it ridiculous that anyone would rank Teuvo as a top-15 prospect is because you know next to nothing about Teravainen.

/thread.
Wow, talk about getting sensitive.

It's funny that a player with the skill-level as high as Yakupov and Galchenyuk, dropped to #18 in his own draft-class (less than a year ago). But still he is top15 among all prospects. Obviously other teams saw players with better upside og talent than Teravainen. Must have been the Finnish factor

On the rank list you referred to Teravainen is #11. Do you seriously see him as a better prospected than the following:

- Murray
- Scheifele
- Brodin
- Lindholm
- Silvferberg
- Bjugstad
- Zibanejad
- Dumba
- Reilly
- Gormley
- Baertschi

He's already not even in the top22 (IMO), and I could probably bring up another 5-10 prospects I'd easily take over him. Your homer-glasses are pretty thick if you think he is top15, and using hockeyprospectus as your reference to back up your opinion. And there are obviously concerns about him since he wasn't taken top7, as you clearly said was his talent-level (if not higher). But this isn't a thread debating prospects, and offer is awful for Florida. End of story..

AwesomePanthers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2013, 09:19 AM
  #40
coldsteelonice84
Registered User
 
coldsteelonice84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 24,703
vCash: 10592
I like MacKinnon a lot but that is too much, let alone adding. If the Leddy negotiations go to complete hell, yeah, I'd probably bite the bullet and do something like this. That's the only way though.

coldsteelonice84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2013, 09:51 AM
  #41
hockeydoug
Registered User
 
hockeydoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,558
vCash: 500
I'm going to burn my Bowman fathead if he tries that deal.

Cost controlled quality depth is a must for a contending team. Replacing even a 18 minute a game dman is going to require another expensive trade or expensive acquisition. The team would be weaker overall for the next few seasons in my opinion.

hockeydoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #42
Aela*
#MeatisMurder
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,115
vCash: 50
Send a message via Skype™ to Aela*
makes no sense for either team, the hawks don't even want anyone on florida besides maybe kulikov and maybe huberdeau.

Aela* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2013, 11:58 AM
  #43
Laus723
Future Now
 
Laus723's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 27,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
makes no sense for either team, the hawks don't even want anyone on florida besides maybe kulikov and maybe huberdeau.
Oh ok.

__________________
So you're saying there's a chance!
Laus723 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.