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05-19-2013, 01:42 PM
  #326
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by brah View Post
i was about to get really pissed of SJ didn't score on that 5on3 during OT last night. glad they decided to make this a series.

still talking about lombardi/franson trade = LOL
Quick played pretty well last night. The 5on3 was another result of inconsistent calls ... a lot of help from Marleau getting Lewis into the goalie and similar contact went uncalled earlier in the game.

Remember, the Sharks still have Jumbo Joe ... they'll crumble this round or the next.

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05-19-2013, 01:51 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
I only watched 10-15 Leafs games this year and probably 30 last year. How much did you watch?
Most leaf fans, who are the harshest critics, give Franson an A for the playoffs:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1429873

Franson has turned into one of the league's better offensive d-men and his dzone play is decent. It was painfully premature for Poile to throw him in... both because Lombardi was healthy shortly after that, and because Franson is good. If you don't think he would've helped us this year, you are in utter denial. I'd take him over Blum and Ellis now and in the future.

It is what it is-- the only reason this is a conversation is because some people are still trying to sell Franson as chopped liver, which is not at all accurate.


Last edited by dulzhok: 05-19-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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05-19-2013, 02:47 PM
  #328
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Remember, the Sharks still have Jumbo Joe ... they'll crumble this round or the next.
Oh, I know, I just didn't want to see a sweep.

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05-19-2013, 02:55 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Most leaf fans, who are the harshest critics, give Franson an A for the playoffs:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1429873

Franson has turned into one of the league's better offensive d-men and his dzone play is decent. It was painfully premature for Poile to throw him in... both because Lombardi was healthy shortly after that, and because Franson is good. If you don't think he would've helped us this year, you are in utter denial. I'd take him over Blum and Ellis now and in the future.

It is what it is-- the only reason this is a conversation is because some people are still trying to sell Franson as chopped liver, which is not at all accurate.

In 2011-12, Franson was far from stellar. During this regular season, he improved some but remained a 3rd pair / PP specialist (75% of his regular season goals, 40% of his assists on the PP). He had a good post season offensively, still committed lapses defensively with huge cost to the Leafs in their final game.

Looking at 2011-12 performance.... Blum regressed from his 2010-11 (which was comparable offensively to Franson during the regular season), Ellis and Franson performed at a similar points pace. In 2013, both Blum and Ellis had rough seasons ... as did most of our roster.

Thank you for redefining "he's a 3rd pair d-man" as "chopped liver". I look forward to your next realignment of the English language.

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05-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
In 2011-12, Franson was far from stellar. During this regular season, he improved some but remained a 3rd pair / PP specialist (75% of his regular season goals, 40% of his assists on the PP). He had a good post season offensively, still committed lapses defensively with huge cost to the Leafs in their final game.
Franson was one of major reasons Leafs were even in the series. He was on the ice for the GWG, but Phaneuf was on the ice for most of the epic Boston comeback.

Leaf fans give him an A. If you want to downgrade his performance and say he was a huge reason they lost, you are in the extreme minority.

Do what you need to do to tell yourself the Franson trade was good.

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05-19-2013, 03:42 PM
  #331
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so franson 2 years ago sucked?

hardly, he was adjusting to the NHL and likely still growing.

But I forgot that rookies cant make mistakes.

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05-19-2013, 04:58 PM
  #332
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Milbury: "I would feel more comfortable with a Stanley Cup winning goaltender (Fleury) in net than a veteran who doesn't have much playoff experience."

Guess that's why he provides crappy commentary during intermissions now.

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05-19-2013, 05:07 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
Milbury: "I would feel more comfortable with a Stanley Cup winning goaltender (Fleury) in net than a veteran who doesn't have much playoff experience."

Guess that's why he provides crappy commentary during intermissions now.
Yeah, he was saying that **** at the end of the Isles series.

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05-19-2013, 05:27 PM
  #334
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Pierre is worse, imo ... talking about how Campbell can handle himself ... as he's being ragdolled during his fight today.

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05-19-2013, 05:35 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Pierre is worse, imo ... talking about how Campbell can handle himself ... as he's being ragdolled during his fight today.
At least he's not doing the Pens series where he would interrupt every 5 seconds to remind everyone how great Sidney Crosby is.

The difference between the Fleury that won the Stanley Cup and the Fleury now is astronomical.

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05-19-2013, 07:07 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Franson was one of major reasons Leafs were even in the series. He was on the ice for the GWG, but Phaneuf was on the ice for most of the epic Boston comeback.

Leaf fans give him an A. If you want to downgrade his performance and say he was a huge reason they lost, you are in the extreme minority.

Do what you need to do to tell yourself the Franson trade was good.
Please actually read what I wrote .. not what you wish I did. Then note that when asked how much I watched him play, I could quantify my time this season. All I've seen from you is you parroting what others said about his play ... a group that hasn't seen their team in the post season since before the lost season until now ... with a little bias.

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05-19-2013, 07:58 PM
  #337
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Point understood 101. To agree this is about opinion, but it is also about being stubborn. This was not a good deal. It was a stretch at the time, and it ended up being dreadful. Even if you factor in the 4th round pick coming to us, it is a bad deal. Franson was very clearly worth more than a 4th round pick at the time. Lombardi has been moved for more than that twice since then. We also were forced to pay over a million dollars to buy out Lebda. I see us losing in all aspects. Frankly, Franson's value was pretty high at the time of that trade. He had an exceptional playoffs, and we had just seen guys like Goligoski net James Neal.

Let me rephrase: Let's not pretend that the Franson deal was anything close to good for us. /End

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05-19-2013, 08:33 PM
  #338
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The deal sucked but if we don't make that deal, we don't make the Fisher deal and the Fisher deal was good for us.

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05-19-2013, 08:43 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
The deal sucked but if we don't make that deal, we don't make the Fisher deal and the Fisher deal was good for us.
Uhh, Fisher was traded for in February 2011, Franson was traded in July 2011.

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05-19-2013, 09:23 PM
  #340
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Do you not believe it had already been decided on before then?

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05-19-2013, 09:50 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Point understood 101. To agree this is about opinion, but it is also about being stubborn. This was not a good deal. It was a stretch at the time, and it ended up being dreadful. Even if you factor in the 4th round pick coming to us, it is a bad deal. Franson was very clearly worth more than a 4th round pick at the time. Lombardi has been moved for more than that twice since then. We also were forced to pay over a million dollars to buy out Lebda. I see us losing in all aspects. Frankly, Franson's value was pretty high at the time of that trade. He had an exceptional playoffs, and we had just seen guys like Goligoski net James Neal.

Let me rephrase: Let's not pretend that the Franson deal was anything close to good for us. /End
It's funny how over two years this has evolved from the "Lombardi" trade to the "Franson deal" and how the focus on Franson's play has to remain on his offense rather than the play in his own end. If he had an exceptional game seven defensively, the Leafs are playing right now rather than watching the Bruins.

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05-19-2013, 09:53 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It's funny how over two years this has evolved from the "Lombardi" trade to the "Franson deal" and how the focus on Franson's play has to remain on his offense rather than the play in his own end. If he had an exceptional game seven defensively, the Leafs are playing right now rather than watching the Bruins.
On the flip side, if not for his offensive contributions they might not even make the playoffs.

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05-19-2013, 10:11 PM
  #343
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On the flip side, if not for his offensive contributions they might not even make the playoffs.
AS I SAID EARLIER ... he had a good offensive season this year, primarily assists ... 1 ES goal all year, 3 pp goals, 40% of his assists on the PP. For all of the praise his snap shot receives, it doesn't generate that many goals over the season ... 5 goals in 11-12, 4 this past season. He barely plays on the PK ... 8th in TOI/game short handed among Leafs' d-men. 7th in ES TOI/game among their blueline ... 15:03 per game ... or 3rd pairing minutes.

At the time of the trade, Blum had just put up similar numbers in the regular season and Ellis was knocking on the door. There was also some kid named Josi needing a slot. Unfortunately, Blum and Ellis only managed half a season of good offensive play each ... but both are younger than Franson with as much, if not more, potential.

One playoff game this season accounts for much of Franson's accolades, and 2/3 of his post season goal scoring. It also had him feature prominently in a few Bruins goals including the series winner.

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05-19-2013, 11:37 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It's funny how over two years this has evolved from the "Lombardi" trade to the "Franson deal" and how the focus on Franson's play has to remain on his offense rather than the play in his own end. If he had an exceptional game seven defensively, the Leafs are playing right now rather than watching the Bruins.
Again blaming Franson for the series loss "If he had an exceptional game 7..." What a horrible train of thought. You can say that for any one of the Leaf players "If player X had an exceptional game 7..." If Phaneuf didn't absolutely suck, they for sure woud've moved on (and that's not limited ot game 7).

Franson was one the major factors why it went to game 7. Leaf fans give him an A. Only person bashing him is you.

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05-20-2013, 03:27 AM
  #345
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I didn't know producing on the powerplay was a negative. I wish we had more players with those negative stats then.

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05-20-2013, 06:50 AM
  #346
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Again blaming Franson for the series loss "If he had an exceptional game 7..." What a horrible train of thought. You can say that for any one of the Leaf players "If player X had an exceptional game 7..." If Phaneuf didn't absolutely suck, they for sure woud've moved on (and that's not limited ot game 7).

Franson was one the major factors why it went to game 7. Leaf fans give him an A. Only person bashing him is you.
Again, you redefine words. "Exceptional" does not mean "prone to defensive lapses in games where scoring". Pointing that out, then becomes "bashing" in your parlance. Really, publish a dictionary so we can all know your redefined words. Once again, you put someone else's views up, not your own.

Trigg ... I've called Franson a 3rd pairing d-man and PP specialist. I didn't say putting up points on the PP was a negative. The best Preds PP in years was the year after trading Franson away, an overlooked detail in the Franson is so great discussion. He is a role player, that's it. 2013 was also the only season where he was significantly better than Blum and Ellis in the offensive zone.

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05-20-2013, 07:28 AM
  #347
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I find it laughable that were discussing a guy who is a 3rd pairing/PP specialist. If we gave up a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman I'd be upset. We always complain about having lesser talent yet we defend a guy with serious limitations. That's silly.

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05-20-2013, 08:55 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by AtrickhayOrnqvistpay View Post
I find it laughable that were discussing a guy who is a 3rd pairing/PP specialist. If we gave up a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman I'd be upset. We always complain about having lesser talent yet we defend a guy with serious limitations. That's silly.
Exactly

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05-20-2013, 10:19 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by AtrickhayOrnqvistpay View Post
I find it laughable that were discussing a guy who is a 3rd pairing/PP specialist. If we gave up a top 6 forward or a top 4 defenseman I'd be upset. We always complain about having lesser talent yet we defend a guy with serious limitations. That's silly.
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Exactly
People are upset because we kept 2 guys over Franson that might have less talent.

Right now it's a stretch to think either Blum or Ellis will become actual NHL players.

Let's be honest. Franson right now is better than Blum, Ellis and Bartley. That's why people are upset. We gave up an asset and got nothing in return, it was poor asset management period. I understand why we did it, but it doesn't make it a good move. It was a projection that as of right now, looks off base.

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05-20-2013, 10:30 AM
  #350
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People are upset because we kept 2 guys over Franson that might have less talent.

Right now it's a stretch to think either Blum or Ellis will become actual NHL players.

Let's be honest. Franson right now is better than Blum, Ellis and Bartley. That's why people are upset. We gave up an asset and got nothing in return, it was poor asset management period. I understand why we did it, but it doesn't make it a good move. It was a projection that as of right now, looks off base.
What is our biggest problem on the blue line? A guy to play alongside Klein. Was Franson that guy? No. Third pairing guys are a dime a dozen in this league. For a team that is based from the goal out we could not afford to keep a guy who is weak defensively. While I'm not sold on Bartley long term, he is much better defensively than Franson was/is and he's only had about 2 months in the NHL. At this point I will give you that Franson is a better player than Ellis and Blum. However, Ellis is 22. Give him til he's 24 or traded in a package before we fully evaluate him as a player.

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