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Old
05-18-2013, 02:16 PM
  #851
GoneFullHextall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Sbisa isn't that great at all. At this point, Coburn > Sbisa. Sbisa does have youth and cap in his favour but the Ducks aren't lacking in young defenders (Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen) but two players who will be 33 and 37 in Beauchemin and Souray are their only reliable veterans - and calling Souray reliable is being generous. I think it's obvious that Coburn needs a reliable partner and one who can move the puck in order to be successful, much of why I think he'd be a great fit on the Ducks. Pretty sure many Ducks fans would agree!
Not sure many would agree with you. At the very, very best Sbisa is equal to Coburn Sbisa is younger and has yet to peak out. Coburn is what he is at this point of his career. A very inconsistent middle pairing defender.
I would take Sbisa in a heartbeat with Coburn going the other way.

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05-18-2013, 02:46 PM
  #852
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I love how much hate Hartnell gets on the main boards. He can be infuriating at times, but he plays a game that is unique to only a few in the league. He has a bad year because of a foot injury in a shortened year and now he is on a "terrible contract" and a "farce". I wonder if their opinions would change if they watched him play a little more??

Also if we do trade Hartnell, we need another banger in the top 9. It's one reason I really don't see him being traded.

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Old
05-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I love how much hate Hartnell gets on the main boards. He can be infuriating at times, but he plays a game that is unique to only a few in the league. He has a bad year because of a foot injury in a shortened year and now he is on a "terrible contract" and a "farce". I wonder if their opinions would change if they watched him play a little more??

Also if we do trade Hartnell, we need another banger in the top 9. It's one reason I really don't see him being traded.
It's not just on the main boards, his own fan base barely gives him any respect. The guys averaged 23 goals a season since he's been here along with some grit, toughness, and leadership but people are always looking to ship him off.

I wouldn't call his contract great or terrible, it's a fair deal IMO.

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Old
05-18-2013, 04:24 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Not sure many would agree with you. At the very, very best Sbisa is equal to Coburn Sbisa is younger and has yet to peak out. Coburn is what he is at this point of his career. A very inconsistent middle pairing defender.
I would take Sbisa in a heartbeat with Coburn going the other way.
Here's a quote from a Ducks fan for you then... : http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=160



Sbisa was a healthy scratch at least once this year, was ridiculously sheltered and still managed to have the 2nd worst Corsi and relative Corsi rating on the Ducks defense. Nobody on the Ducks faced easier quality of competition and only Fowler had a higher offensive zone start percentage (Sbisa had a 50% offensive zone start percentage).

Coburn on the other hand, had a 41% offensive zone start percentage - tied for lowest on the Flyers with Gustafsson among defensemen. Coburn also had similar Corsi ratings to Sbisa even though Coburn faced competition tougher than ANYONE on the Ducks - Francois 'Norris' Beauchemin included - although that probably says a lot more about the Atlantic vs. Pacific in terms of star power than it does about Sbisa vs. Coburn. Coburn had a rough year, but Sbisa wasn't even equal to Coburn's bad year other than his 11 points vs. Coburn's 5.

So really, the only things Sbisa has going for him is youth and his caphit...

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05-18-2013, 04:30 PM
  #855
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Coburn is soooooooooooooooooooo much better than Sbisa that it's not even a funny comparison.

People around here should look more at the advanced stats. Coburn didn't have his best year, but he was still fairly awesome. I'm looking to him to rebound big next season.

Honestly...

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
(Meszaros) - Grossmann

is a fantastic defense. **** the haters. I really could see Gustafsson complimenting Coburn well, and the two could eat some serious hard minutes for us in the upcoming seasons.

The only person on our roster that warrants our "blow-it-up" mentality is Bryzgalov. he can get blown straight into orbit for all I care. I think our roster is stacked. No reason to trade.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn/Akeson
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
Meszaros - Grossmann
Gervais

Mason
anyone not named Bryzgalov


We should still go hard after Streit though and possibly a top 9 winger.

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Old
05-18-2013, 04:36 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn is soooooooooooooooooooo much better than Sbisa that it's not even a funny comparison.

People around here should look more at the advanced stats. Coburn didn't have his best year, but he was still fairly awesome. I'm looking to him to rebound big next season.

Honestly...

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
(Meszaros) - Grossmann

is a fantastic defense. **** the haters. I really could see Gustafsson complimenting Coburn well, and the two could eat some serious hard minutes for us in the upcoming seasons.

The only person on our roster that warrants our "blow-it-up" mentality is Bryzgalov. he can get blown straight into orbit for all I care. I think our roster is stacked. No reason to trade.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn/Akeson
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
Meszaros - Grossmann
Gervais

Mason
anyone not named Bryzgalov


We should still go hard after Streit though and possibly a top 9 winger.
Yup, pretty stacked.

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Old
05-18-2013, 04:38 PM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Yup, pretty stacked.
Fine...

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn
Gagne - Laughton - Read
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot

Happy now?

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Old
05-18-2013, 04:42 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We should still go hard after Streit though and possibly a top 9 winger.
Man, I was pretty much with you on that post until the Streit comment. Why do so many of you guys want him? Yes, I know PMD. Seriously though, he's old and his contract will be awful for whoever signs him. One thing I'm asking out of the Flyers from now on is no more obviously bad contracts.

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Old
05-18-2013, 04:54 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fine...

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn
Gagne - Laughton - Read
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot

Happy now?


That's liveable. I do think we should explore some options for the top 6 if possible.

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Old
05-18-2013, 04:59 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post


That's liveable. I do think we should explore some options for the top 6 if possible.
How are you going to legitimately upgrade...

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn

I mean, maybe something like Hartnell + 1st + Cousins if you go after Ryan. That's an upgrade, but really, you should be content with our top 6.

If Couturier, Schenn, and Gustafsson break out this season even marginally, as everyone is suspecting, we will be golden as long as we get adequate goaltending.

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Old
05-18-2013, 05:08 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
How are you going to legitimately upgrade...

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn

I mean, maybe something like Hartnell + 1st + Cousins if you go after Ryan. That's an upgrade, but really, you should be content with our top 6.

If Couturier, Schenn, and Gustafsson break out this season even marginally, as everyone is suspecting, we will be golden as long as we get adequate goaltending.
I don't think it's a dire need to upgrade it but if there's options out there that make sense then I would try to.

I also prefer Schenn playing center over wing. So I would slot him as the 2C and Couturier at 3C.

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Old
05-18-2013, 05:31 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I don't think it's a dire need to upgrade it but if there's options out there that make sense then I would try to.

I also prefer Schenn playing center over wing. So I would slot him as the 2C and Couturier at 3C.
Schenn or Laughton will have to play wing at some point. You decide.

I'd rather Schenn play wing than Laughton.

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Old
05-18-2013, 05:43 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Schenn or Laughton will have to play wing at some point. You decide.

I'd rather Schenn play wing than Laughton.
In the future if all of three of them are still here you will. For right now though you don't have to. Schenn looked a lot better when he was playing center compared to when he was on the wing last year. I would start Couturier at the 3C spot and Laughton at the 4C spot to start out the year. If they play well then move them up.

Couturier has to show some of that offensive potential and Laughton has to prove he could handle other teams top lines before I move them up.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 05-18-2013 at 05:50 PM.
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Old
05-19-2013, 01:49 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Couturier has to show some of that offensive potential and Laughton has to prove he could handle other teams top lines before I move them up.
I disagree with this. Couturier has to be given a better chance to succeed offensively. If we just keep putting him in the same old shutdown position he may never develop.

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Old
05-19-2013, 01:57 PM
  #865
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I disagree with this. Couturier has to be given a better chance to succeed offensively. If we just keep putting him in the same old shutdown position he may never develop.
It's kind of a two way street. While he wasn't given a lot of opportunities offensively, the ones he did get he did nothing with them.

Jordan Staal played a shutdown role and still put up offensive production. So I don't really agree with that assessment.

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Old
05-19-2013, 02:42 PM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn is soooooooooooooooooooo much better than Sbisa that it's not even a funny comparison.

People around here should look more at the advanced stats. Coburn didn't have his best year, but he was still fairly awesome. I'm looking to him to rebound big next season.

Honestly...

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
(Meszaros) - Grossmann

is a fantastic defense. **** the haters. I really could see Gustafsson complimenting Coburn well, and the two could eat some serious hard minutes for us in the upcoming seasons.

The only person on our roster that warrants our "blow-it-up" mentality is Bryzgalov. he can get blown straight into orbit for all I care. I think our roster is stacked. No reason to trade.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn/Akeson
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
Meszaros - Grossmann
Gervais

Mason
anyone not named Bryzgalov


We should still go hard after Streit though and possibly a top 9 winger.
Coburn was fairly awesome this season? Jesus Christ man I know you have a mancrush on the guy but Coburn was nothing even close to awesome this season. He hasnt been good on a consistent basis since he ate that puck a few years ago.
A paring of Meszaros/Grossman still concerns me healthwise.
I still dont think Akeson is a every day top 6 forward. Especially ahead of Read.
.

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Old
05-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #867
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Coburn was awful and it's no coincidence the team looked better immediately after he was out of the lineup.

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05-19-2013, 02:50 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Coburn was fairly awesome this season? Jesus Christ man I know you have a mancrush on the guy but Coburn was nothing even close to awesome this season. He hasnt been good on a consistent basis since he ate that puck a few years ago.
A paring of Meszaros/Grossman still concerns me healthwise.
I still dont think Akeson is a every day top 6 forward. Especially ahead of Read.
.
You could make a good argument that he shouldn't even be on the team let alone in the top 6. I guess that 1 goal went a long way with some.

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05-19-2013, 02:50 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Coburn was awful and it's no coincidence the team looked better immediately after he was out of the lineup.
it also helped not having Briere in the lineup as well.

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05-19-2013, 02:53 PM
  #870
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it also helped not having Briere in the lineup as well.
Yep, those two leaving was addition by subtraction. The average callup taking their place was likely to be more effective if anything because they'd be hustling their ass off to prove their worth.

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05-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #871
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I think the Flyers would be well-served to target Pascal Dupuis as UFA. Excellent two-way forward that would serve a roll in improving either the second or third lines.

I know there is a ton of focus on improving the defense, but lets not forget that our forwards need to improve their contribution in that area as well. It would likely be more tenable to improve the defensive prowess of our forward core in the offseason than trying to improve the defensemen.

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05-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You could make a good argument that he shouldn't even be on the team let alone in the top 6. I guess that 1 goal went a long way with some.
yeah remember when Tomas Hyka scored that preseason goal and everyone wanted to sign him and put him immediately in the top 6?

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05-19-2013, 03:43 PM
  #873
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I think the Flyers would be well-served to target Pascal Dupuis as UFA. Excellent two-way forward that would serve a roll in improving either the second or third lines.

I know there is a ton of focus on improving the defense, but lets not forget that our forwards need to improve their contribution in that area as well. It would likely be more tenable to improve the defensive prowess of our forward core in the offseason than trying to improve the defensemen.
If the price is right, I wouldn't mind Dupuis or Michael Ryder.

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05-19-2013, 03:52 PM
  #874
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i would have to think the Flyers would really have to overpay to get Dupuis out of Pittsburgh.

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05-19-2013, 04:21 PM
  #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn is soooooooooooooooooooo much better than Sbisa that it's not even a funny comparison.

People around here should look more at the advanced stats. Coburn didn't have his best year, but he was still fairly awesome. I'm looking to him to rebound big next season.

Honestly...

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
(Meszaros) - Grossmann

is a fantastic defense. **** the haters. I really could see Gustafsson complimenting Coburn well, and the two could eat some serious hard minutes for us in the upcoming seasons.

The only person on our roster that warrants our "blow-it-up" mentality is Bryzgalov. he can get blown straight into orbit for all I care. I think our roster is stacked. No reason to trade.

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - McGinn/Akeson
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Coburn
Meszaros - Grossmann
Gervais

Mason
anyone not named Bryzgalov


We should still go hard after Streit though and possibly a top 9 winger.
In what world is that a stacked roster? By no means is it terrible but there are several players on there who are question marks. I thought I was a homer...

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