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05-19-2013, 08:22 AM
  #51
duffy9748
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Snider definitely isn't perfect but I wouldn't say he is holding this team back from winning. What "mentality" are people talking about? This current team isn't exactly all rough and tumble like the past. He hasn't won since '75 but he has been to six finals since then. They happened to play the two greatest teams of all time in the 80's, not much you can do about that. I'd understand all the complaining if this team was missing the playoffs year in and year out but they're not. We have been spoiled with the fact that we have a contending team almost every year. It is just really hard to win a Stanley Cup.

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05-19-2013, 09:32 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
This is one of the most ludicrous statements I have read on HF.

Snider is FAR from a problem. He wants to win, he spends to win, and largely, this team HAS won. He is ABSOLUTELY nothing like Al Davis. The Flyers have played MANY different styles of hockey in the last 15 years and draft as good as anyone. The Raiders made overreaching draft picks on flawed players left and right for the last 10+ years and try to play a style in the NFL that is stale and predictable.

There is a TREMENDOUS amount of luck that goes into this business, and there is NO sure fire guarantee of how best to win a stanley cup. If we had gotten Kane instead of JVR we would likely be a VERY different team....pure dumb luck.

We have made some crushing choices (to our organizational depth) the last few years trading away picks chasing "our window", and the main piece of that effort had an extremely unlucky injury and his career is over. This has undoubtedly set us back now, but we also got within 2 games of a cup because of it.
I agree with the people who say things won't change until he dies. I don't want him to die, but he has a certain mindset and that's not going to change, he is impatient and with him telling Holmgren he has to find the best goalie out there, he is also meddling. The lack of patience shown by him and the organization starts and ends with him. He rewards loyalty as long as they are yes-men and it's time for some new blood.

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05-19-2013, 01:02 PM
  #53
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Yeah I'm a little lost on how this team won't ever win with Snider considering they are one of the most successful franchises in the game aside from cups...

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05-19-2013, 01:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Yeah I'm a little lost on how this team won't ever win with Snider considering they are one of the most successful franchises in the game aside from cups...
The last few years of a win-now mentality and the effect it's had on the team is alarming. The fact that there's no indication it will be stopping is alarming as well. You can't buy a Cup in the cap era. You need to have patience and build a team. The Flyers have been using prospects, traded picks, players, and money to try and buy a Cup. There's no indication that approach will work, and if anything it's gotten the team further away.

The question is...where does the mentality come from? Homer? Or Snider? Based on comments we've seen over the years I assume Snider.

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05-19-2013, 01:59 PM
  #55
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The last few years of a win-now mentality and the effect it's had on the team is alarming. The fact that there's no indication it will be stopping is alarming as well. You can't buy a Cup in the cap era. You need to have patience and build a team. The Flyers have been using prospects, traded picks, players, and money to try and buy a Cup. There's no indication that approach will work, and if anything it's gotten the team further away.

The question is...where does the mentality come from? Homer? Or Snider? Based on comments we've seen over the years I assume Snider.
Yeah I agree regarding the futures management, it's bad. But I mean, the team remains competitive, and for the first time in a while, we failed to make the playoffs with a very young team. I guess it's weird but Snider is not holding this team back from a cup

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05-19-2013, 02:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Yeah I agree regarding the futures management, it's bad. But I mean, the team remains competitive, and for the first time in a while, we failed to make the playoffs with a very young team. I guess it's weird but Snider is not holding this team back from a cup
we havent really been a competitive team since our run in 2010 and even then that team was inconsistent the entire season

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05-19-2013, 02:24 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The last few years of a win-now mentality and the effect it's had on the team is alarming.
I'll agree that has set us back right now...
Quote:
The fact that there's no indication it will be stopping is alarming as well.
What overaged vets did we trade for this year? Did we trade Couturier for a 40 old yet?
Quote:
You need to have patience and build a team. The Flyers have been using prospects, traded picks, players, and money to try and buy a Cup. There's no indication that approach will work, and if anything it's gotten the team further away.
There is no evidence "patience" works either. Lets just say cup winners since 2008. Two of those teams were so awful they ended up getting multiple top 5 picks and each drafted 2 likely HOFers....apparently it's just that easy. Detroit had some hanging on vets, and their "scouting" landed them some fresh blood in the latter half of the draft (I'm sure they just knew HZ would be who he was so thats why they took him so late). They spend PLENTY of money on UFAs.
Boston got Chara, traded for some guys, stole Seguin from Toronto, ect...so they didn't exactly do it "exclusively" home grown.
And LA....their GM was getting fired, they underacheived, made the deal for Carter and it ended up being a perfect deal. Lombardi went from the outhouse, to the penthouse in a matter of months...

Teams like NSH and NYI are "patient"...and see where that has gotten them.

Now, I will say there is a fine line of being to aggressive...and at times...they have been...but the claim that they are incapable of getting it done is just armchair quarterbacking.

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05-19-2013, 02:27 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
we havent really been a competitive team since our run in 2010 and even then that team was inconsistent the entire season
A 2011 team that was on paper BETTER than the 2010 cup run.

People talk about this being a frustrating season, not even, this season should have been expected to some degree...we have 2 forwards that actually play defense, and about 3 more that try.

2011 was FAR more frustrating, that team should have been MUCH better.

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05-19-2013, 02:42 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
I'll agree that has set us back right now... What overaged vets did we trade for this year? Did we trade Couturier for a 40 old yet? There is no evidence "patience" works either. Lets just say cup winners since 2008. Two of those teams were so awful they ended up getting multiple top 5 picks and each drafted 2 likely HOFers....apparently it's just that easy. Detroit had some hanging on vets, and their "scouting" landed them some fresh blood in the latter half of the draft (I'm sure they just knew HZ would be who he was so thats why they took him so late). They spend PLENTY of money on UFAs.
Boston got Chara, traded for some guys, stole Seguin from Toronto, ect...so they didn't exactly do it "exclusively" home grown.
And LA....their GM was getting fired, they underacheived, made the deal for Carter and it ended up being a perfect deal. Lombardi went from the outhouse, to the penthouse in a matter of months...

Teams like NSH and NYI are "patient"...and see where that has gotten them.

Now, I will say there is a fine line of being to aggressive...and at times...they have been...but the claim that they are incapable of getting it done is just armchair quarterbacking.
Overaged vets? You can buy more than overaged vets. They made an attempt to buy Weber at a ludicrous contract, one which we possibly dodged a bullet on with the new CBA's rules regarding cap benefits and such.

There's a clear difference between the sort of patience Nsh and NYI show, and what the Flyers do. It's one thing to build pieces then make the big move for a last piece to put you over the edge. I'm fine with the Pronger trade for that reason (I'm not fine with some of the asset management leading up to it, but that's a different story). But, to try for that big move every single year instead of properly addressing holes to set the team up for the big move to succeed...that's impatience, and it shreds the team long term.

Edit: Oh, and besides the unknown future implications of Weber's contract, there was the very well known cost in draft picks...the kind of cost that can seriously affect a team. It's reckless.


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Old
05-19-2013, 02:46 PM
  #60
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Whats the last day we can use a buyout for this season? I'd like them to play a wait and see approach. See who gets bought out who could be had. Then buy out Bryz. Thomas/Luo with Mason I wouldn't mind. Pick and choose where Mason gets a start keep is confidence high, and let him keep building.

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05-19-2013, 06:00 PM
  #61
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I want to ask the people that hate Bryzgalov for his personality and overall "dividing attitude" in the locker room one question: why the hell would you say those things and in the next breath want to sign Tim Thomas?

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05-19-2013, 07:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I want to ask the people that hate Bryzgalov for his personality and overall "dividing attitude" in the locker room one question: why the hell would you say those things and in the next breath want to sign Tim Thomas?
Aside from his White House thing, are there any rumors of Thomas being a cancer? Everyone seems to get up in arms for him having political views. Prior to that I don't recall seeing anybody say he's a bad teammate.

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05-19-2013, 07:13 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Aside from his White House thing, are there any rumors of Thomas being a cancer? Everyone seems to get up in arms for him having political views. Prior to that I don't recall seeing anybody say he's a bad teammate.
Nope, just that incident. I believe most of his teammates didn't even care about it neither. It was more of the media making a big deal about it.

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05-19-2013, 08:00 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
This is one of the most ludicrous statements I have read on HF.

Snider is FAR from a problem. He wants to win, he spends to win, and largely, this team HAS won. He is ABSOLUTELY nothing like Al Davis. The Flyers have played MANY different styles of hockey in the last 15 years and draft as good as anyone. The Raiders made overreaching draft picks on flawed players left and right for the last 10+ years and try to play a style in the NFL that is stale and predictable.

There is a TREMENDOUS amount of luck that goes into this business, and there is NO sure fire guarantee of how best to win a stanley cup. If we had gotten Kane instead of JVR we would likely be a VERY different team....pure dumb luck.

We have made some crushing choices (to our organizational depth) the last few years trading away picks chasing "our window", and the main piece of that effort had an extremely unlucky injury and his career is over. This has undoubtedly set us back now, but we also got within 2 games of a cup because of it.
ive been alive for 26 years, and we havent won ****. its been 38 years since theyve won anything.

If our management and ownership would be patient once in a while and not sell the farm ever 2 years for old decrepit all stars we would go 40 years without a title.

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05-19-2013, 08:10 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
ive been alive for 26 years, and we havent won ****. its been 38 years since theyve won anything.

If our management and ownership would be patient once in a while and not sell the farm ever 2 years for old decrepit all stars we would go 40 years without a title.
This is a pet peeve of mine. Saying that makes it sound like they haven't even won division titles and conference championships. No, they are not the ultimate goal, but they count for something. Saying they haven't won anything makes them seem like the Blue Jackets

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05-19-2013, 08:54 PM
  #66
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Aside from his White House thing, are there any rumors of Thomas being a cancer? Everyone seems to get up in arms for him having political views. Prior to that I don't recall seeing anybody say he's a bad teammate.
I thought I've read other things about him being outspokenly anti-gay rights, other stuff.

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05-19-2013, 09:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I thought I've read other things about him being outspokenly anti-gay rights, other stuff.
He posted something on his Facebook basically agreeing with Chick-Fil-A. I don't agree with the guys views but I don't think that makes him a bad teammate. As long as he stops the puck I could care less to be honest.

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05-19-2013, 09:03 PM
  #68
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He posted something on his Facebook basically agreeing with Chick-Fil-A. I don't agree with the guys views but I don't think that makes him a bad teammate. As long as he stops the puck I could care less to be honest.
Hey I agree with that sentiment. My point is that if someone's sole reasoning to buy him out is his views, saying we should go out and sign Thomas is pretty hypocritical.

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05-19-2013, 09:13 PM
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Hey I agree with that sentiment. My point is that if someone's sole reasoning to buy him out is his views, saying we should go out and sign Thomas is pretty hypocritical.
Yeah I would agree with that. When it comes to Bryz some people just can't look at things objectively. I think from an organizational viewpoint though Bryz gets bought-out for his play and contract not matching up.

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05-19-2013, 11:27 PM
  #70
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ive been alive for 26 years, and we havent won ****. its been 38 years since theyve won anything.

If our management and ownership would be patient once in a while and not sell the farm ever 2 years for old decrepit all stars we would go 40 years without a title.
And that is the fallacy. We could have done things 180 degrees different, and still not ultimately won.

There is NO guaranteed way to accomplish the end goal.

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05-20-2013, 05:45 AM
  #71
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I have no interest in Thomas. It has nothing to do with his off-ice statements/beliefs or potential locker room issues. It has to do with the fact that he is pushing 40 and hasn't played in a year.

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05-20-2013, 05:46 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I want to ask the people that hate Bryzgalov for his personality and overall "dividing attitude" in the locker room one question: why the hell would you say those things and in the next breath want to sign Tim Thomas?
I don't want Thomas anywhere near the team. The Bruins were furious with him for his White House stunt and the other comments he posted on FB would definitely rile some people up. Besides that, he's old, he missed a year and we have no idea if he worked out on any level.

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05-20-2013, 08:47 AM
  #73
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I don't want Thomas anywhere near the team. The Bruins were furious with him for his White House stunt and the other comments he posted on FB would definitely rile some people up. Besides that, he's old, he missed a year and we have no idea if he worked out on any level.
Doesn't matter Snider loves him and his work ethic.....but obviously if Thomas is acquired and sucks ..Snider will disavow any influence.

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05-20-2013, 06:25 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
A 2011 team that was on paper BETTER than the 2010 cup run.

People talk about this being a frustrating season, not even, this season should have been expected to some degree...we have 2 forwards that actually play defense, and about 3 more that try.

2011 was FAR more frustrating, that team should have been MUCH better.
That team was great until Pronger had that wrist injury. Not to mention Richards was tired by close of the season. Didn't be have a stat that he played a ridiculous amount of hockey games in the previous year or so? Then Lavy completely losing faith in Bobrovski early in the Sabres series which led to the most ridiculous goalie carousel I've ever seen in one playoff series. By the time that series was over, the team was gassed and Boston decimated us.

Not starting Bob for Game 3 was a mistake that exemplifies how impatient this organization is, especially when it comes to goalies.


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05-20-2013, 06:47 PM
  #75
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Yup, and I seem to remember him stating on his own freaking TV network after the 07 season that we were no longer going to trade picks and youth for "quick fixes and agig players" only to have us less than a month later trade a 1st rnd pick for the righs to Timonn and Hartnell. In less than 5 years we traded away more than 15 players or picks from the first 3 rounds with no less than 5 in each round. Yup, sounds like Snider is a man of his word.

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