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Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part 17: What does "bold" mean?

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Old
05-19-2013, 07:38 PM
  #776
belair
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Thank god the Ference rumor is BS. I'm legitimately worried they're going to pursue him in the summer. And he's bad. Worse than Nick Schultz bad.

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05-19-2013, 07:45 PM
  #777
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Are you honestly saying Schultz is better than Ference?

Just lol.

1) Ference will cost less than Schultz' 3.5 million caphit.
2) Ference is WAY more physical
3) Ference is a leader on and off the ice....his antics can be a bit much but he's great at taking attention away from struggling teammates and putting the burden on himself.
4) Ference is a proven playoff performer. He was a rock for the Flames in '04 and the last few years for Boston.


Please explain in what way Ference is worse than Schultz. I'll wait for your reply.

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05-19-2013, 08:51 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Are you honestly saying Schultz is better than Ference?

Just lol.

1) Ference will cost less than Schultz' 3.5 million caphit.
2) Ference is WAY more physical
3) Ference is a leader on and off the ice....his antics can be a bit much but he's great at taking attention away from struggling teammates and putting the burden on himself.
4) Ference is a proven playoff performer. He was a rock for the Flames in '04 and the last few years for Boston.


Please explain in what way Ference is worse than Schultz. I'll wait for your reply.
I don't know if Ference will cost less than 3.5M. The D market is awful this year.

He isn't worse than Schultz, but basically Schultz is a No.5 and Ference is a No.4

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05-19-2013, 09:21 PM
  #779
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Link?
Garfield?

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05-19-2013, 10:26 PM
  #780
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http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...920/story.html

Matheson saying we shouldn't expect Hemsky to be an Oiler anymore.

Honestly, if you're just going to offload him at retained salary for next to nothing, then don't do it.

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05-19-2013, 10:40 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Are you honestly saying Schultz is better than Ference?

Just lol.

1) Ference will cost less than Schultz' 3.5 million caphit.
2) Ference is WAY more physical
3) Ference is a leader on and off the ice....his antics can be a bit much but he's great at taking attention away from struggling teammates and putting the burden on himself.
4) Ference is a proven playoff performer. He was a rock for the Flames in '04 and the last few years for Boston.


Please explain in what way Ference is worse than Schultz. I'll wait for your reply.
We could definitely use Ference as a number four. I'd be ok with adding him and another legit top four guy this summer. Schultz is a hack who is barely worthy of a roster spot.

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05-19-2013, 10:40 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...920/story.html

Matheson saying we shouldn't expect Hemsky to be an Oiler anymore.

Honestly, if you're just going to offload him at retained salary for next to nothing, then don't do it.
I hope they could get at least a late first or early second for him. Damn that $5M is going to bite us.

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05-19-2013, 11:26 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Are you honestly saying Schultz is better than Ference?

Just lol.

1) Ference will cost less than Schultz' 3.5 million caphit.
2) Ference is WAY more physical
3) Ference is a leader on and off the ice....his antics can be a bit much but he's great at taking attention away from struggling teammates and putting the burden on himself.
4) Ference is a proven playoff performer. He was a rock for the Flames in '04 and the last few years for Boston.


Please explain in what way Ference is worse than Schultz. I'll wait for your reply.
I'll admit that the Nick Schultz statement is unfounded and I'm really not interested in arguing the boxcars and magnified stats of two #5 defensemen.

What I do know is that Andrew Ference, much like Nick Schultz, is absolutely abominable when handling the puck.

The main point is that we're not trading Nick Schultz. So signing Andrew Ference to a contract = or > $3.5M would be an atrocity when you consider what we currently have.

Ference has had the fortune of having himself surrounded by a solid supporting cast throughout the majority of his career. So when you look at his stat column he seems like he'd be a positive addition to our porous defense. But the fact of the matter is that even on a consistent contending team like the Boston Bruins, he is prone to making poor decisions with and without the puck.

And while the addition of a little physicality on the back end sounds mighty appealing, adding it at the expense of having yet another tentative puck-handler on the back end at the price-tag he's likely yielding makes it an easy no-go.

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05-19-2013, 11:39 PM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...920/story.html

Matheson saying we shouldn't expect Hemsky to be an Oiler anymore.

Honestly, if you're just going to offload him at retained salary for next to nothing, then don't do it.
Button is full of ****, if we ate 1/2 of his cap hit there is little doubt in my mind that we couldn't at least get a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps Nashville's 2nd would be a good fit?

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05-19-2013, 11:50 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Button is full of ****, if we ate 1/2 of his cap hit there is little doubt in my mind that we couldn't at least get a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps Nashville's 2nd would be a good fit?
The fact that he brought up Cogliano's return as an RFA who was asking for the moon following a disappointing year as a comparative makes his idea of Hemsky's value unrealistic.

I honestly don't see us eating cap if we move him. He's still a serviceable forward and if we're looking at the trade market, it's likely a player-for-player deal.

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05-19-2013, 11:54 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Button is full of ****, if we ate 1/2 of his cap hit there is little doubt in my mind that we couldn't at least get a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps Nashville's 2nd would be a good fit?
Does anyone else think there should be interest in signing Ben Lovejoy as a UFA. I havn't seen a lot of him but from what I can gather he was playing significant minutes for the Ducks has good size and plays a solid game. I see he was making around the league minimum last year so I'm thinking he can be had for a decent price. Does anyone else have an opinion on this guy?

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05-20-2013, 12:01 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...920/story.html

Matheson saying we shouldn't expect Hemsky to be an Oiler anymore.

Honestly, if you're just going to offload him at retained salary for next to nothing, then don't do it.
So the Oilers wont pay Hemsky $5 million to be a 2nd liner with world class skill. (Matheson's words)

But they will pay Shawn Horcoff $5.5 million to be a 3rd liner with 3rd line skill...

Makes sense . Such a joke that there is not even a sniff of getting rid of Horcoff by any of the media. The guy who has captained the worst team in franchise history.

He makes more than Hemsky does and brings less to the table. He is also under contract for longer. Any other organization in the league would buy Horcoff out and do some actual management work and find an upgrade. Not a chance MacT even considers getting rid of Horcoff though. Zero.

****ing joke

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05-20-2013, 12:59 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
If COL goes ahead and buys out Paul Stastny, or agrees to eat 2-3M of his last year with a trade, he's who I'd target as the #2C for this team. He's only 27, he's got at least another 5-6 good years ahead of him, and should be a solid fit for the new division.
I actually tweeted Avs insider Adrian Dater in March.

10/3/13
adater: "No team will be able to match Avs center trio of Duchene-Stastny-O'Reilly on a consistent basis. Won't happen"

Me:
"So you're saying Stastny is likely to still be an Av next year?"

adater: "yes. Avs are set on him thru next year"

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05-20-2013, 01:06 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Button is full of ****, if we ate 1/2 of his cap hit there is little doubt in my mind that we couldn't at least get a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps Nashville's 2nd would be a good fit?
You'd actually move a 2.5M cap hit Hemsky for a second round pick just to have the extra 2.5M in cap room?

Like I said, I'm keeping Hemsky, we barely have enough scoring even with our stars because the depth isn't quite there, unless someone gives me a good D in return. He's a UFA, his value is going to suck so he's probably most valuable to us than anyone else.

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05-20-2013, 01:13 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Button is full of ****, if we ate 1/2 of his cap hit there is little doubt in my mind that we couldn't at least get a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps Nashville's 2nd would be a good fit?
I dont think he is tbh (full of ****). I know I wouldnt want Hemsky at all on my team. I certainly wouldnt be giving up a first or second round pick for him, even at half his salary. Would you? Be honest now.

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05-20-2013, 02:31 AM
  #791
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I dont think he is tbh (full of ****). I know I wouldnt want Hemsky at all on my team. I certainly wouldnt be giving up a first or second round pick for him, even at half his salary. Would you? Be honest now.
2.5M cap hit guy who could put up 50, 60 or even 70 points for a second rounder?

Nashville paid Montreal a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder for Andrei Kostitsyn for about 30 games and he wasn't as good as Hemsky. If a guy like Hemsky for the year was available for a 2nd rounder at half his salary, I'd make that trade.

It would boost my offense for a low-ish cost.

Remember, we paid a 4th rounder for Smithson and a 4th rounder for Brown...Hemsky for a 2nd is a steal compared to that.

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05-20-2013, 02:34 AM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...920/story.html

Matheson saying we shouldn't expect Hemsky to be an Oiler anymore.

Honestly, if you're just going to offload him at retained salary for next to nothing, then don't do it.
I'd rather trade him for nothing while retaining 100% of his salary than keep him.

He's the epitome of everything wrong with the Oilers.

It's long past the point of needing to get rid of him.

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05-20-2013, 02:36 AM
  #793
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I'd rather trade him for nothing while retaining 100% of his salary than keep him.

He's the epitome of everything wrong with the Oilers.

It's long past the point of needing to get rid of him.


Really?

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05-20-2013, 02:38 AM
  #794
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Really?
Yup. I'm serious.

I can't stand him or Horcoff anymore.

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05-20-2013, 02:45 AM
  #795
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Yup. I'm serious.

I can't stand him or Horcoff anymore.
Smyth as well.

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05-20-2013, 02:48 AM
  #796
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I really wish we had traded Hemmer back when we traded Penner. I bet we could have got LA's first and a better prospect than Teubert, like Forbort or Voynov at the time, then we could have moved Penner to another team for a first. Resigning Hemsky was a joke, it was at the time and its and even bigger joke now.

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05-20-2013, 03:32 AM
  #797
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
The fact that he brought up Cogliano's return as an RFA who was asking for the moon following a disappointing year as a comparative makes his idea of Hemsky's value unrealistic.

I honestly don't see us eating cap if we move him. He's still a serviceable forward and if we're looking at the trade market, it's likely a player-for-player deal.
Player for player is fine by me as long as it's not a crappy player in return. His cap hit is much harder to swallow since the cap is going down next season.

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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Does anyone else think there should be interest in signing Ben Lovejoy as a UFA. I havn't seen a lot of him but from what I can gather he was playing significant minutes for the Ducks has good size and plays a solid game. I see he was making around the league minimum last year so I'm thinking he can be had for a decent price. Does anyone else have an opinion on this guy?
I recall positive things about him, but I don't recall keying in on him specifically TBH.

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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
So the Oilers wont pay Hemsky $5 million to be a 2nd liner with world class skill. (Matheson's words)

But they will pay Shawn Horcoff $5.5 million to be a 3rd liner with 3rd line skill...

Makes sense . Such a joke that there is not even a sniff of getting rid of Horcoff by any of the media. The guy who has captained the worst team in franchise history.

He makes more than Hemsky does and brings less to the table. He is also under contract for longer. Any other organization in the league would buy Horcoff out and do some actual management work and find an upgrade. Not a chance MacT even considers getting rid of Horcoff though. Zero.

****ing joke
Amen to the bolded. We should be purging both of them. Horcoff needs to be bought out, if we can't use our "get out of jail free" card then I will already call MacT a POS GM. This isn't 2006 anymore MacT, it's time to send Horcoff down the road on his merry way. If we can move both of their contracts that frees up $10.5 million, that's a LOT of coin, and I'm sure that we could get a lot better bang for the buck even by inflated UFA prices.

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You'd actually move a 2.5M cap hit Hemsky for a second round pick just to have the extra 2.5M in cap room?

Like I said, I'm keeping Hemsky, we barely have enough scoring even with our stars because the depth isn't quite there, unless someone gives me a good D in return. He's a UFA, his value is going to suck so he's probably most valuable to us than anyone else.
Yes, yes I would. This is supposed to be a very deep draft, we could either keep that pick, or combine it with our own and trade to the 25-28 slot or possibly even higher than that. Our offense is thin because our bottom 6 has offensive stalwarts like Horcoff, Belanger, Smyth, Petrell, and Brown in it.

Add a legit 3C that isn't getting overpaid by a minimum of $3 million, a guy like Bickell, and another solid bottom 6er or two and a LH PMD and that shouldn't be an issue. Not to mention a healthy RNH and Eberle next year.

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont think he is tbh (full of ****). I know I wouldnt want Hemsky at all on my team. I certainly wouldnt be giving up a first or second round pick for him, even at half his salary. Would you? Be honest now.
If my team is Phoenix or Nashville? You bet I would, without hesitation. Since my team is the Oilers? **** no.

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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
2.5M cap hit guy who could put up 50, 60 or even 70 points for a second rounder?

Nashville paid Montreal a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder for Andrei Kostitsyn for about 30 games and he wasn't as good as Hemsky. If a guy like Hemsky for the year was available for a 2nd rounder at half his salary, I'd make that trade.

It would boost my offense for a low-ish cost.

Remember, we paid a 4th rounder for Smithson and a 4th rounder for Brown...Hemsky for a 2nd is a steal compared to that.
Hemsky at $5 million is not a "steal" unless he's a 60-70 point guy and he won't be that here again because of our personnel. A high 2nd or preferably a low 1st for him would be a very desirable return for us right now IMO. We'd free up more cap space to attract bottom 6 talent and a LH PMD.

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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Yup. I'm serious.

I can't stand him or Horcoff anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
Smyth as well.
Unfortunately I could see 2/3 of these guys returning.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that had the new GM been Nill or someone else with no connections to the team that Horcoff would be bought out and Smyth would be asked to take the high road and retire? To be fair to MacT he hasn't decided to retain them to our knowledge, but I sure and hell wouldn't bet against both being back next season.

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05-20-2013, 03:34 AM
  #798
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I really wish we had traded Hemmer back when we traded Penner. I bet we could have got LA's first and a better prospect than Teubert, like Forbort or Voynov at the time, then we could have moved Penner to another team for a first. Resigning Hemsky was a joke, it was at the time and its and even bigger joke now.
IMO he has more value now than he did last season, so we could in theory make out better than we could've last year, but I agree that we likely should've moved him that year.

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05-20-2013, 03:58 AM
  #799
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Hemsky at $5 million is not a "steal" unless he's a 60-70 point guy and he won't be that here again because of our personnel. A high 2nd or preferably a low 1st for him would be a very desirable return for us right now IMO. We'd free up more cap space to attract bottom 6 talent and a LH PMD.
I was talking about if Edmonton retained Hemsky so that he was 2.5M instead of 5M.

As for the other points, it sounds easy to buyout Horcoff/Smyth and trade Hemsky but we're talking about adding five different guys in a weak UFA market as well as a market where there will be more buyers then sellers. Even with Sir Bold MacT, I would be worried about how we would replace Horcoff/Hemsky and still improve our D and still improve our bottom six AND get that sizeable top six forward.

I say that because if Edmonton doesn't do anything to replace them, they will use the "youth" card and we'll see Harty/Lander/Klefbom/Rajala/Marincin and co. filling roles they can't really fill yet.

Edmonton has around 5 holes or so with Hemsky/Horcoff/even Smyth in the lineup, nevermind if you cut two of them (Smyth doesn't really matter that much).

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05-20-2013, 05:35 AM
  #800
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Are you honestly saying Schultz is better than Ference?

Just lol.

1) Ference will cost less than Schultz' 3.5 million caphit.
2) Ference is WAY more physical
3) Ference is a leader on and off the ice....his antics can be a bit much but he's great at taking attention away from struggling teammates and putting the burden on himself.
4) Ference is a proven playoff performer. He was a rock for the Flames in '04 and the last few years for Boston.


Please explain in what way Ference is worse than Schultz. I'll wait for your reply.
Honestly Ference is a player who could struggle on a team like the Oilers the same way Nick Schultz has. Schultz went from looking like a stalworth 2nd pairing defenseman in Minnesota to a bottom-pairing one here in EDM. I feel Ference would suffer the same fate.

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