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05-19-2013, 04:24 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
In what world is that a stacked roster? By no means is it terrible but there are several players on there who are question marks. I thought I was a homer...
i stopped taking that post seriously when he said Coburn was still fairly awesome this year.

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05-19-2013, 04:25 PM
  #877
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Pittsburgh is in some cap problems when it comes to the future. Pittsburgh fans boy won't tell you that because its like nhl13 where they have the ability to trade anyone for anything. They think Iggy is going to sign for 4 million per. I'm sorry but that it incredibly low balling him. He deserves and will get at least 5 million per. Like he should. He is still a given for 25-30 goals per year. They also talk about trading Martin who has been one of their better defenders this year and most of last year. Letang needs new deal, Malkin is getting over 10 per year and rightfully so. With the new cba they won't be able to front load it like crosbys. That's why Shero loaded up for this run. They know they won't have the depth they have from here on with the cap dropping

If we do pursue dupuis I would be worried like he be would come back down and the contract would look really bad

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05-19-2013, 04:28 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You could make a good argument that he shouldn't even be on the team let alone in the top 6. I guess that 1 goal went a long way with some.
People just love his potential. It's not even disputable that heh as NHL hands/vision. He tore up the OHL in Kitchener. The only thing holding him back is his lack of size and defensive play, which still isn't THAT bad.

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05-19-2013, 04:30 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
In what world is that a stacked roster? By no means is it terrible but there are several players on there who are question marks. I thought I was a homer...
Somebody hasn't been watching Gus lately... He is going to be the real wild card next season. There's honestly few teams, maybe 2 or 3, in the NHL who's roster I would take over ours.

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05-19-2013, 04:32 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
People just love his potential. It's not even disputable that heh as NHL hands/vision. He tore up the OHL in Kitchener. The only thing holding him back is his lack of size and defensive play, which still isn't THAT bad.
that and he is soft as hell.

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05-19-2013, 04:41 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
In what world is that a stacked roster? By no means is it terrible but there are several players on there who are question marks. I thought I was a homer...
...

Gus is not a question mark.

Gagne is not either. We all know what he is at this point in his career.

McGinn/Akeson is a toss up. Neither need to be on the team realistically. If either makes it, then awesome. McGinn is certainly NHL-ready, and Akeson gets as much hate around here as Gus does. It's pretty retarded. I'm not saying Akeson should be penciled into the lineup, but you have to be an absolute moron to believe he's not going to get a look.

On top of that, we'll be looking for forwards in the offseason. There might be a few buyouts or other top 9 options. Laughton is another possibility.

Mason is not ideal, but he's as good as Bryzgalov at this point. We're getting crappy goaltending anyway, so I'd rather stick with the option that has the potential to be better than expected. That's Mason.

Meszaros' health is a question mark. You got me on that one.

So yeah, I'm a homer for thinking through things instead of accepting things as fact. Awesome. Next time I urge you to apply some critical thinking.


And Coburn was not nearly as bad as people claim. The snowballing of this rumor is absurd.

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05-19-2013, 04:57 PM
  #882
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Any lineup that had mcginn or akeson in the top 6 to begin is probably going to be another poor year. Especially if Bryz and briere are bought out. If we have the resources, we should get another top 9 player. Mcginn and akeson should be first on the list for call ups though

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05-19-2013, 04:57 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
...

Gus is not a question mark.

Gagne is not either. We all know what he is at this point in his career.

McGinn/Akeson is a toss up. Neither need to be on the team realistically. If either makes it, then awesome. McGinn is certainly NHL-ready, and Akeson gets as much hate around here as Gus does. It's pretty retarded. I'm not saying Akeson should be penciled into the lineup, but you have to be an absolute moron to believe he's not going to get a look.

On top of that, we'll be looking for forwards in the offseason. There might be a few buyouts or other top 9 options. Laughton is another possibility.

Mason is not ideal, but he's as good as Bryzgalov at this point. We're getting crappy goaltending anyway, so I'd rather stick with the option that has the potential to be better than expected. That's Mason.

Meszaros' health is a question mark. You got me on that one.

So yeah, I'm a homer for thinking through things instead of accepting things as fact. Awesome. Next time I urge you to apply some critical thinking.


And Coburn was not nearly as bad as people claim. The snowballing of this rumor is absurd.
I agree with everything you said, but Coburn was embarrassing this season. The number of goals scored against us due to him failing to exit the puck out of the zone was ****ing mind boggling. He was absolutely useless.

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05-19-2013, 05:00 PM
  #884
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I'd say give Coburn another full season to see if it was just a bad fluke of a season.

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05-19-2013, 05:02 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
I agree with everything you said, but Coburn was embarrassing this season. The number of goals scored against us due to him failing to exit the puck out of the zone was ****ing mind boggling. He was absolutely useless.
I think that's because we asked to play a role he doesn't have to tool-set to play.

You want to look at something as embarrassing? Watch Schenn or Grossmann try to get the puck out of the zone. Our entire defense's puck-mobility was facepalm worthy.

Thank god Gus is emerging because otherwise, I don't know what we would've done.

You need to put players in the position to succeed. We took that away from Coburn this year, and he still logged big minutes/the most important minutes for us on the backend.

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05-19-2013, 05:09 PM
  #886
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I'd say give Coburn another full season to see if it was just a bad fluke of a season.
I'm not even sure I'd give him a full season, I'd wait until the deadline. If he's not working, package him to try and improve the team.

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05-19-2013, 06:08 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You need to put players in the position to succeed. We took that away from Coburn this year, and he still logged big minutes/the most important minutes for us on the backend.
QFT. Its why I don't think that this team will improve until Laviolette is gone. All of the other stuff is merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
However, I would move Coburn if the right deal came up.

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05-19-2013, 06:14 PM
  #888
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QFT. Its why I don't think that this team will improve until Laviolette is gone. All of the other stuff is merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
However, I would move Coburn if the right deal came up.
I'm not so quick to blame Laviolette. We had ONE PMD this year and a whole host of injuries. (No kids, Gervais does not count as a PMD, he counts as a 7th defenseman at best). Gus will help. A healthy Meszaros would have helped, but he's glass. Nobody is or should be counting on him next year or down the road.

I think this is more Holmgren's fault, but he could not have predicted Meszaros to be the glass-boy he has become.

That said, many of us voiced our concerns about our defense's inability to move the puck long before the lockout broke.

Give Timonen - Schenn / Gustafsson - Coburn a shot next year. I don't think we'll be disappointed. (Minus the kids who still feel the defense is at fault for Bryzgalov being a complete waste of time )

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05-19-2013, 06:46 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think that's because we asked to play a role he doesn't have to tool-set to play.

You want to look at something as embarrassing? Watch Schenn or Grossmann try to get the puck out of the zone. Our entire defense's puck-mobility was facepalm worthy.

Thank god Gus is emerging because otherwise, I don't know what we would've done.

You need to put players in the position to succeed. We took that away from Coburn this year, and he still logged big minutes/the most important minutes for us on the backend.
Schenn and Grossmann really aren't as bad as moving the puck as they are perceived to be at all. These, big important, minutes you're talking about that coburn logged for us were awful and face palm worthy all season long.

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05-19-2013, 07:00 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
People just love his potential. It's not even disputable that heh as NHL hands/vision. He tore up the OHL in Kitchener. The only thing holding him back is his lack of size and defensive play, which still isn't THAT bad.


I'm not getting on the Akeson hype train. He's a fringe player at this point.

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05-19-2013, 07:21 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Schenn and Grossmann really aren't as bad as moving the puck as they are perceived to be at all. These, big important, minutes you're talking about that coburn logged for us were awful and face palm worthy all season long.
I did this roughly 2/3rds of the way through the season before Coburn got hurt:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
PK%
1. Boston - 92.3
2. Ottawa - 89.5
3. San Jose - 86.8
4. Minnesota - 86.5
5. Columbus - 85.7
...
11. Philadelphia - 83.3
--. New York (R) - 83.3


BLOCKED SHOTS
1. New York (R) - 237
2. Philadelphia - 227

3. Phoenix - 223
4. San Jose - 222
-. New York (I) - 222

HITS
1. Toronto - 814
2. Philadelphia - 764
3. Los Angeles - 724
4. New York (R) - 723
5. Ottawa - 678

GA/G
1. Ottawa - 1.96
2. Chicago - 2.12
3. Boston - 2.13
4. Nashville - 2.24
5. San Jose - 2.25
6. New York (R) - 2.33
...
23. Philadelphia - 3.00


----------------------------------

POINTS
1. Letang - 26
2. Timonen - 19
-. Shattenkirk - 19
4. Subban - 18
-. Kronwall - 18
-. Suter - 18
...
68. Schenn - 7
102. Coburn - 5
122. Grossmann - 4


HITS
1. Schenn - 103
2. Emelin - 88
3. Fraser - 79
4. Smid - 77
5. Phaneuf - 75
6. Grossmann - 72
...
15. Coburn - 58
118. Timonen - 20


BLOCKED SHOTS
1. Grossmann - 77
2. Orpik - 72
3. Smid - 70
-. Zanon - 70
4. MacDonald - 68
-. Michalek - 68
...
22. Coburn - 52
28. Schenn - 49
36. Timonen - 45


TOI/G
1. Suter - 27:29
2. Karlsson - 27:03
3. J. Johnson - 26:24
4. Doughty - 26:18
5. Campbell - 26:14
...
50. Coburn - 22:45
81. Timonen - 21:07
106. Schenn - 19:58

(139.) Meszaros - 18:13 (6 GP)
141. Grossmann - 18:04
(144.) Gustafsson - 18:01 (11 GP)

CORSI REL QoC >20GP
1. Ekman-Larson - 2.132
2. Michalek - 2.111
3. Phaneuf - 2.071
4. Boychuk - 1.996
5. S. Weber - 1.973
6. Hjalmarsson - 1.909
7. Chara - 1.808
8. Oduya - 1.772
9. Giordano - 1.741
10. Bouwmeester - 1.656
...
22. Coburn - 1.013
23. Schenn - 1.011
27. Timonen - 0.963
32. Grossmann - 0.897


Despite sharing time, the Flyers' defensemen are all up there in key stats like blocked shots and hitting. All four being really among the top 30 in REL CORSI QoC is really telling. Meanwhile, Timonen despite being 81st in TOI/G, is 2nd in scoring among defensemen.

I think we ought to chalk this season up to injuries and look to upgrade our PMDs while keeping our top 4 in tact. I'm really hoping Meszaros and Gustafsson can be the producers we need on the back-end. It's the only thing we're lacking from our defense.

Bryzgalov is another story, but there's no solving him. For now, let's just make sure that we know what the real problems are with this team before blindly blaming the defense.

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05-19-2013, 07:35 PM
  #892
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You're forgetting at least one important stat: GAON/60, at even strength. For Dmen who played 30 games, only Gervais was worse than Coburn. The two of them blew, and there's a large gap between them and the others. For any GP, the situation is worse...he's still near the bottom with many players ahead of him.

So sure, he was out there a lot and he wasn't facing cakewalk competition...but he crumpled out there.

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05-19-2013, 07:48 PM
  #893
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You're forgetting at least one important stat: GAON/60, at even strength. For Dmen who played 30 games, only Gervais was worse than Coburn. The two of them blew, and there's a large gap between them and the others. For any GP, the situation is worse...he's still near the bottom with many players ahead of him.

So sure, he was out there a lot and he wasn't facing cakewalk competition...but he crumpled out there.
A lot of that crumbling was more because he was a player who is inefficient at clearing the zone, and he certainly did not really have a partner to rely on in that regard.

Only Schenn of the three shut-down guys we had really had a capable partner who he could lean on in terms of outletting the zone.

Honestly, it was never really Coburn playing poorly defensively that cost us but instead when he got trapped in the zone unable to move the puck forward without any reasonable help.

Coburn needs to be placed in a more reasonable situation for him to be successful. We all know Coburn can't be what he is not, so expecting him to be that guy is a little much. Perhaps the organization had higher hopes for him, but at this stage of the game, it's fairly obvious what Coburn brings.

Placing the puck-moving responsibilities on him is a mistake. Shouldering the load defensively? I'll take Coburn for that any day.

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05-19-2013, 07:51 PM
  #894
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Give Timonen - Schenn / Gustafsson - Coburn a shot next year. I don't think we'll be disappointed. (Minus the kids who still feel the defense is at fault for Bryzgalov being a complete waste of time )
I'd like to see them sign a first pairing puck mover (Streit) to play with Schenn.
Then reunite Timonen and Coburn
Play Grossmann and Gustafsson in the 3rd pairing.

If we can't get another D, and are stuck with Mesz, we could play him with Luke.

The other name that intrigues me, but would require buying out Bryz for sure, is to get Brian Campbell off the Panthers. $7.14 x 3 more years on his contract. If it didn't cost us too much to get him, it would be better to pay him that price than Streit $5.5 for 3 years (I would do that deal for sure). Campbell is 33, Steit is 35. Their stats are identical 27 pts in 48 games.

I didn't get a chance to watch Campbell and Luke Schenn paired together for the Worlds. Any opinions. Did they look good together.

Getting Streit or Campbell will give us time for Ghost to develop.

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05-20-2013, 03:00 AM
  #895
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I'd like to see them sign a first pairing puck mover (Streit) to play with Schenn.
Then reunite Timonen and Coburn
Play Grossmann and Gustafsson in the 3rd pairing.

If we can't get another D, and are stuck with Mesz, we could play him with Luke.

The other name that intrigues me, but would require buying out Bryz for sure, is to get Brian Campbell off the Panthers. $7.14 x 3 more years on his contract. If it didn't cost us too much to get him, it would be better to pay him that price than Streit $5.5 for 3 years (I would do that deal for sure). Campbell is 33, Steit is 35. Their stats are identical 27 pts in 48 games.

I didn't get a chance to watch Campbell and Luke Schenn paired together for the Worlds. Any opinions. Did they look good together.

Getting Streit or Campbell will give us time for Ghost to develop.
Streit is the guy I want to go after, but I think Gustafsson plays enough like Timonen to the point where either Schenn or Coburn would feel comfortable with him.

I think our future is more invested in Schenn, so keeping Timonen with him makes sense.

If Streit or Campbell can be had reasonably, then that would obviously bump Gus down to Grossmann.

Either way, we're going to be patient with Ghost for now. Whether it was the organization's call or Ghost himself wanted to stay, I'm cool with it.

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05-20-2013, 03:44 AM
  #896
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What about Ian White or dare I say Marc-Andre Bergeron.

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05-20-2013, 05:04 AM
  #897
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Streit is the guy I want to go after, but I think Gustafsson plays enough like Timonen to the point where either Schenn or Coburn would feel comfortable with him.

I think our future is more invested in Schenn, so keeping Timonen with him makes sense.

If Streit or Campbell can be had reasonably, then that would obviously bump Gus down to Grossmann.

Either way, we're going to be patient with Ghost for now. Whether it was the organization's call or Ghost himself wanted to stay, I'm cool with it.
This assessment makes sense to me.

Getting Streit or a similar type of player without giving up much (or anything at all) could be a more feasible way of improving short term than swinging the big trade.

If Gus is bumped down to play with Grossmann that might not even be bad for him - those two may complement each other well. Mesz would be expendable or they just keep him if he fits under the cap because realistically there gonna be injuries.

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05-20-2013, 05:41 AM
  #898
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What about Ian White or dare I say Marc-Andre Bergeron.
How did he look this year? He always seemed like a player that I thought was a lot older than he actually was. He seems to always be somewhere on a cheap contract and make a decent impact relative to his cap hit.

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05-20-2013, 06:14 AM
  #899
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I am pretty much guaranteeing that Bobby Ryan is wearing Orange and Black come September, probably a lot sooner.

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05-20-2013, 08:24 AM
  #900
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an issue with Streit is the +35 contract that he would get.

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