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Lundqvist - Two Weak Games, Bounce Back Buddy

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Old
05-19-2013, 06:43 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
Phenomenally telling stat that makes this opinion seem quite invalid.

18 games In the PO where he faces 30 or MORE shots.
18 GP 1.41 GAA .941%.

Now what does this tell you about his abilities and his PO record? Here's the most important and most telling stat.

Again EIGHTEEN games played. 1.41 GAA and .941% while facing 30 or MORE SHOTS IN EVERY SINGLE ONE THOSE 18 GAMES and his record?

9-9 .

WHAt!? THE!? ****!?

What would you say about henrik and more importantly the team if after 18 GP in the regular season henrik faced 30+ shots per game, had those stats and the team was only 9-9!? We'd be trying to form lynch mobs!

The guy was the MVP of the SEL, won it's championship AND won Olympic GOLD. The guy is a SC winner on a team with any sort of competence in its compostion

I mean you sometimes have to have some semblance of an ability to look objectivity at this stuff when it's a TEAM game. Barry Sanders is one of the best RB of all time. Didn't win a Lombardi. Curtis Martin, Dan Marino, Patrick Ewing for BBall you can list guys who played perfectly well in the PO's, more then well enough to win and were all world players but /c it's a team game and there are so many other factors in it sometimes you just can't get that championship.

To blame Lundqvist and not appreciate how phenomenal he is b/c of a lack of a cup is downright insane to me
I agree
What would be thought of Richter had he not won the cup
1 CUP in 73 years
What is the problem with this team?

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05-19-2013, 06:44 PM
  #377
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How's that for a sensationalist manner of posting?
Seriously. You guys just can't spew whatever you feel like when it comes to stuff like that. Post a quote and the source.

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05-19-2013, 06:50 PM
  #378
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Lundqvist is in a better place now.

Visiting trainers room in Boston is top of the line.

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05-19-2013, 07:06 PM
  #379
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This thread title is a joke. I'm sure someone has said it already but come on guys, we are spoiled to have this guy. These last two games are what happens when this guy doesn't stand on his head and plays like an average goalie. If we were a halfway decent fundamental team Henrik wouldn't have to look the way he does every game.

Could it be he's burnt out? Playing every game towards the end and a grueling 7 game series that might go down as his best series ever will cause a lull for anyone.

I'm sure a lot of you weren't around for the era between Richter and Lundqvist but it was disgusting. Hideous. Painful. Alot of more adjectives can describe it. Stop taking for granted what this guy does. These two "weak" games will look like Roy when he's gone. There's a good chance you won't ever see a goalie as good as him again in your lifetime with this team so learn to appreciate it.

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05-19-2013, 07:11 PM
  #380
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Lundqvist got outdueled today. It takes nothing away what he's done in the regular season, and the loss isn't solely on him. But Rask put the Bruins on his back in the 2nd period when the Rangers began to press and Lundqvist failed to come up with the big save when Boston responded. It is what it is. Nothing more. Nothing less. Get it back on Tuesday.


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05-19-2013, 07:23 PM
  #381
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He is the best goaltender in the world, so I guess the criticism comes with the territory. But I'm not going to expect Henrik to put up shutouts and 1 GA games while facing screens and one timers every night.

Goal 1: Screened by Girardi, who is also on an island because the forwards couldn't handle basic d-zone coverage. Best goalie in the world is probably annoyed that his 5 hole was open though.

Goal 2: He's battling a screen shot so he's already at a disadvantage, which is deflected straight to some wide open Bruin who gets it off the ice with one touch before Hank could react. It's most worth noting that this time the forwards are well positioned, deep in the zone, allowing Krug to walk the blue line to get a better shooting angle and giving the Bruins at the net plenty of time to get in front of his line of sight. Nice strategy coach.

Goal 3: Perfect screen. No goalie sees it, no goalie stops it. If you think otherwise, get a hold of the behind the net camera, slow it down and witness the coincidence of perfect timing between the shot being taken and the Bruin as well as the Rangers defenceman getting right in front of his sight line. Again, consider that Callahan failed to pass his man onto the defence and left the trailer (goalscorer) wide open.

Goal 4: The best goalie in the world wants that one back, but we're considering a cross crease pass in the paint; that's not to mention that both defencemen were humiliated.

Goal 5: Just a stupid garbage goal. As if Hank deserved anymore stupid bounces tonight.

There are going to be nights when even an elite goalie doesn't pull off miracles and every bit of fortune goes against him. For elite teams, those are the nights where they put up 4 goals themselves and win it in overtime if they have to.

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05-19-2013, 07:30 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
He is the best goaltender in the world, so I guess the criticism comes with the territory. But I'm not going to expect Henrik to put up shutouts and 1 GA games while facing screens and one timers every night.

Goal 1: Screened by Girardi, who is also on an island because the forwards couldn't handle basic d-zone coverage. Best goalie in the world is probably annoyed that his 5 hole was open though.

Goal 2: He's battling a screen shot so he's already at a disadvantage, which is deflected straight to some wide open Bruin who gets it off the ice with one touch before Hank could react. It's most worth noting that this time the forwards are well positioned, deep in the zone, allowing Krug to walk the blue line to get a better shooting angle and giving the Bruins at the net plenty of time to get in front of his line of sight. Nice strategy coach.

Goal 3: Perfect screen. No goalie sees it, no goalie stops it. If you think otherwise, get a hold of the behind the net camera, slow it down and witness the coincidence of perfect timing between the shot being taken and the Bruin as well as the Rangers defenceman getting right in front of his sight line. Again, consider that Callahan failed to pass his man onto the defence and left the trailer (goalscorer) wide open.

Goal 4: The best goalie in the world wants that one back, but we're considering a cross crease pass in the paint; that's not to mention that both defencemen were humiliated.

Goal 5: Just a stupid garbage goal. As if Hank deserved anymore stupid bounces tonight.

There are going to be nights when even an elite goalie doesn't pull off miracles and every bit of fortune goes against him. For elite teams, those are the nights where they put up 4 goals themselves and win it in overtime if they have to.
That fourth goal was a backbreaker, and should be stopped a majority of the time. The pass came from a distance and the puck hit the middle of the net along the ice. He was slow getting across and had his weight too far back, not getting his leg pad and stick down on the ice. Blame the defense all you want but both Lundqvist and Rask made several more difficult saves than that.

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05-19-2013, 07:32 PM
  #383
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I see everyone saying the team doesn't help him enough. One of the big things is, at least with these past two games, is that the goals he is letting in are backbreakers. Pure backbreakers. It's tough for a team to rally around him when he's letting in such cruddy goals. So the team can only do so much just like he can only do so much.

He needs to step it up these next two games. He at least needs to play average. Average Hank wins for us today. Average Hank should win these next two games.

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05-19-2013, 07:57 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I see everyone saying the team doesn't help him enough. One of the big things is, at least with these past two games, is that the goals he is letting in are backbreakers. Pure backbreakers. It's tough for a team to rally around him when he's letting in such cruddy goals. So the team can only do so much just like he can only do so much.

He needs to step it up these next two games. He at least needs to play average. Average Hank wins for us today. Average Hank should win these next two games.
Yeah..does game 5 vs the devils last year ring a bell? 3 goals on the first 5 shots..that was the series there.

He's made some incredible saves and won some incredible games for us. But until he can do what TT did for the Bs 2 years ago or what JQ did for the Kings last season, we are not getting to the finals, let alone winning the cup. Also, those 2 goalies did it without torts' shot blocking squads.

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05-19-2013, 08:13 PM
  #385
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Am I the only one who thinks the excuse of Torts' shot blocking squad is an overused thing this year?
I don't know how many shots we blocked and where we ranked in the league, but it looked like this team sucked at blocking shots this season

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05-19-2013, 08:49 PM
  #386
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What bothers me is that I know he'll probably have another great game or two. He'll tease us and then out of nowhere have more stinkers. It's been that way his entire career. He's capable of being one of the best ever. I'll say it right now, he's capable of being Patrick Roy. He has games in the playoffs that make sit there with wonder and just marvel at the greatness that is Henrik Lundqvist. Then he has games and stretches where I really want to cry, not only as a Rangers fan but because I appreciate greatness. He gives us flashes of friggin GOAT play in the playoffs, even more than the regular season quite frankly. Then he's the goat in the other sense. If the guy had those GOAT games and the vast majority of the rest of the time was just regular season Lundqvist he'd be one of the greatest goalies to ever live.

Here's what I mean when I say that he's really inconsistent in his playoff career. I'll exclude his injury riddled rookie playoffs:

2007: We play Buffalo, he's not great in the first 2 games, the next 3 he's stellar. He played one of the greatest games I've ever seen in game 5, but that was the Drury game. Then we come back for game 6. We lose 5-4. Granted there were some bounces and the D sucked, but he was mediocre at best in that game.

2008: Round 1 against the Devils. He allows 1 goal in both of the first 2 games (though he got lucky with like 4 posts in one of those games). He wasn't spectacular, but it wasn't exactly 2 early 00 Devils games either. Then after not allowing more than 2 goals in 10 games against the Devils that season he proceeds to do it in 3 straight games. He's lucky that Brodeur was even worse. Round 2, game 2, he had a great game. We lost 2-0, but the 2nd goal was an empty netter. The first one I believe was Jordan Staal by himself in front of the net and he could do nothing about it. Then game 3, Lundqvist ***** the bed. Allows 5 goals I believe (or 4 and an empty netter, I think it was 5), we even came back to tie after being down 3-1.

2009: He had a shutout in game 2 against the Caps. Came back and gave up 5 goals I believe in game 3. Had one of the best games of his career in game 4, came back and just totally **** the bed in game 5, including giving up the first goal of the game that was one of the worst of his career. Wasn't much better in game 6.

2011: This was a blur and there were only 5 games, I think he might have not had any terrible games, or disappointing performances.

2012: After registering his 2nd shutout in 3 games against the Devils, he had 2 brutal games (especially game 5) in a row.

2013: Registers 2 straight shutouts in games 6 and 7. ***** the bed to start the Bruins series. Including a 5 goal against game that he hasn't had in 2 seasons.

It's a trend unfortunately that he's followed his entire career. Only year that it possibly didn't happen (and it might have I really have a foggy recollection of that series) was a 5 game sample size.

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05-19-2013, 09:24 PM
  #387
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Am I the only one who thinks the excuse of Torts' shot blocking squad is an overused thing this year?
I don't know how many shots we blocked and where we ranked in the league, but it looked like this team sucked at blocking shots this season
This year we were 3rd in hits and 6th in blocked shots.
Last year we were 1st in hits and 4th in blocked shots.

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05-19-2013, 09:48 PM
  #388
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Put it this way. If it weren't for Hank's play, we wouldn't have made it to Round 2. Was he as sharp as he's been and did he make the key saves for us? No, but the defensive coverage in front of him was horrible today.

Had the Rangers gone up 3-2 instead of hitting both goalposts, we likely wouldn't be discussing his play, as that would have been a huge momentum shifter.

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05-19-2013, 09:57 PM
  #389
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What bothers me is that I know he'll probably have another great game or two. He'll tease us and then out of nowhere have more stinkers. It's been that way his entire career. He's capable of being one of the best ever. I'll say it right now, he's capable of being Patrick Roy. He has games in the playoffs that make sit there with wonder and just marvel at the greatness that is Henrik Lundqvist. Then he has games and stretches where I really want to cry, not only as a Rangers fan but because I appreciate greatness. He gives us flashes of friggin GOAT play in the playoffs, even more than the regular season quite frankly. Then he's the goat in the other sense. If the guy had those GOAT games and the vast majority of the rest of the time was just regular season Lundqvist he'd be one of the greatest goalies to ever live.

Here's what I mean when I say that he's really inconsistent in his playoff career. I'll exclude his injury riddled rookie playoffs:

2007: We play Buffalo, he's not great in the first 2 games, the next 3 he's stellar. He played one of the greatest games I've ever seen in game 5, but that was the Drury game. Then we come back for game 6. We lose 5-4. Granted there were some bounces and the D sucked, but he was mediocre at best in that game.

2008: Round 1 against the Devils. He allows 1 goal in both of the first 2 games (though he got lucky with like 4 posts in one of those games). He wasn't spectacular, but it wasn't exactly 2 early 00 Devils games either. Then after not allowing more than 2 goals in 10 games against the Devils that season he proceeds to do it in 3 straight games. He's lucky that Brodeur was even worse. Round 2, game 2, he had a great game. We lost 2-0, but the 2nd goal was an empty netter. The first one I believe was Jordan Staal by himself in front of the net and he could do nothing about it. Then game 3, Lundqvist ***** the bed. Allows 5 goals I believe (or 4 and an empty netter, I think it was 5), we even came back to tie after being down 3-1.

2009: He had a shutout in game 2 against the Caps. Came back and gave up 5 goals I believe in game 3. Had one of the best games of his career in game 4, came back and just totally **** the bed in game 5, including giving up the first goal of the game that was one of the worst of his career. Wasn't much better in game 6.

2011: This was a blur and there were only 5 games, I think he might have not had any terrible games, or disappointing performances.

2012: After registering his 2nd shutout in 3 games against the Devils, he had 2 brutal games (especially game 5) in a row.

2013: Registers 2 straight shutouts in games 6 and 7. ***** the bed to start the Bruins series. Including a 5 goal against game that he hasn't had in 2 seasons.

It's a trend unfortunately that he's followed his entire career. Only year that it possibly didn't happen (and it might have I really have a foggy recollection of that series) was a 5 game sample size.
Really nice analysis but please don't embarrass yourself by mentioning Hank in the same sentence with Patrick Roy.

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05-19-2013, 10:00 PM
  #390
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Put it this way. If it weren't for Hank's play, we wouldn't have made it to Round 2. Was he as sharp as he's been and did he make the key saves for us? No, but the defensive coverage in front of him was horrible today.

Had the Rangers gone up 3-2 instead of hitting both goalposts, we likely wouldn't be discussing his play, as that would have been a huge momentum shifter.
The only game we won in round 1 in large part due to him was game 6. He was also excellent in games 2, 5, and 7. Didn't matter though. However, you can have your all world goalie show up in 4 of 7 games (4 of 9 now). How often does Crosby not show up for his team? Considering both are considered the best at their positions, it's not entirely unfair to make the comparison. I said not entirely, they do play different positions and Crosby is considered the better player.

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05-19-2013, 10:11 PM
  #391
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Really nice analysis but please don't embarrass yourself by mentioning Hank in the same sentence with Patrick Roy.
Why am I "embarrassing" myself? You don't think that with his regular season success, if Hank played like he did in the regular season (elite level) with a lot more regularity but also had the types of HOF games that he's had in the playoffs over the years, you don't think he'd be considered in that league? Real difference is that Roy is a playoff ace, while Lundqvist lowers his play in the playoffs. If what I said happened in the playoffs (maybe not EVERY year, even Roy wasn't GREAT every year), he'd be one of the greats. He's shown that he can have AMAZING games in the playoffs. He's shown that he can have consistently elite play in the regular season. If he somehow put the 2 together he'd be great. The AMAZING games don't need to come at a ridiculous rate. Just, if he was in regular season Lundqvist form more often in the playoffs he'd be one of the best ever. Seems like, instead of considering my scenario you think with your emotions and don't want Roy's name to be tarnished.

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05-20-2013, 12:28 AM
  #392
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The only game we won in round 1 in large part due to him was game 6. He was also excellent in games 2, 5, and 7. Didn't matter though. However, you can have your all world goalie show up in 4 of 7 games (4 of 9 now). How often does Crosby not show up for his team? Considering both are considered the best at their positions, it's not entirely unfair to make the comparison. I said not entirely, they do play different positions and Crosby is considered the better player.
Crosby is on an all star team. When he doesn't show up for the most part some other star will pick up the slack, be it that *other* generational talent Malkin, or the annual Norris contender Letang, or Neal, Kunitz and so on. But God forbid Lundqvist let's in 3 goals which is the kiss of death for this offensively inept team. Lundqvist's responsibility is so disproportionate greater than Crosby's it's not even funny, and to be quite frank the amount of responsibility placed upon him is just unfair. Not a good responsibility comparison.

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05-20-2013, 02:47 AM
  #393
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Really nice analysis but please don't embarrass yourself by mentioning Hank in the same sentence with Patrick Roy.
At least the board seems to have the same expectations on Lundqvist as you would from Roy, so the comparison isn't that far fetched.

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05-20-2013, 04:28 AM
  #394
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Well, if you guys don't like him I wouldn't mind if you sent him back to Frölunda.



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05-20-2013, 08:19 AM
  #395
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Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur had several terrible games in the playoffs.

The major difference is they had much, much better teams in front of them that could bail them out.

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05-20-2013, 08:23 AM
  #396
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Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur had several terrible games in the playoffs.

The major difference is they had much, much better teams in front of them that could bail them out.
The other major difference is that they were both top-five goaltenders of all-time...

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05-20-2013, 08:26 AM
  #397
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The other major difference is that they were both top-five goaltenders of all-time...
Lundqvist is on his way to being every bit as good -- if his next 7 seasons rival his first 8.

The difference is the playoff wins, and the cup, which are team accolades.

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05-20-2013, 08:29 AM
  #398
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Lundqvist is on his way to being every bit as good -- if his next 7 seasons rival his first 8.

The difference is the playoff wins, and the cup, which are team accolades.
I personally think you're not giving Lundqvist enough responsibility for his own playoff performances. And also not giving Roy and Brodeur enough credit for theirs.

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05-20-2013, 08:31 AM
  #399
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What bothers me is that I know he'll probably have another great game or two. He'll tease us and then out of nowhere have more stinkers. It's been that way his entire career. He's capable of being one of the best ever. I'll say it right now, he's capable of being Patrick Roy. He has games in the playoffs that make sit there with wonder and just marvel at the greatness that is Henrik Lundqvist. Then he has games and stretches where I really want to cry, not only as a Rangers fan but because I appreciate greatness. He gives us flashes of friggin GOAT play in the playoffs, even more than the regular season quite frankly. Then he's the goat in the other sense. If the guy had those GOAT games and the vast majority of the rest of the time was just regular season Lundqvist he'd be one of the greatest goalies to ever live.

Here's what I mean when I say that he's really inconsistent in his playoff career. I'll exclude his injury riddled rookie playoffs:

2007: We play Buffalo, he's not great in the first 2 games, the next 3 he's stellar. He played one of the greatest games I've ever seen in game 5, but that was the Drury game. Then we come back for game 6. We lose 5-4. Granted there were some bounces and the D sucked, but he was mediocre at best in that game.

2008: Round 1 against the Devils. He allows 1 goal in both of the first 2 games (though he got lucky with like 4 posts in one of those games). He wasn't spectacular, but it wasn't exactly 2 early 00 Devils games either. Then after not allowing more than 2 goals in 10 games against the Devils that season he proceeds to do it in 3 straight games. He's lucky that Brodeur was even worse. Round 2, game 2, he had a great game. We lost 2-0, but the 2nd goal was an empty netter. The first one I believe was Jordan Staal by himself in front of the net and he could do nothing about it. Then game 3, Lundqvist ***** the bed. Allows 5 goals I believe (or 4 and an empty netter, I think it was 5), we even came back to tie after being down 3-1.

2009: He had a shutout in game 2 against the Caps. Came back and gave up 5 goals I believe in game 3. Had one of the best games of his career in game 4, came back and just totally **** the bed in game 5, including giving up the first goal of the game that was one of the worst of his career. Wasn't much better in game 6.

2011: This was a blur and there were only 5 games, I think he might have not had any terrible games, or disappointing performances.

2012: After registering his 2nd shutout in 3 games against the Devils, he had 2 brutal games (especially game 5) in a row.

2013: Registers 2 straight shutouts in games 6 and 7. ***** the bed to start the Bruins series. Including a 5 goal against game that he hasn't had in 2 seasons.

It's a trend unfortunately that he's followed his entire career. Only year that it possibly didn't happen (and it might have I really have a foggy recollection of that series) was a 5 game sample size.
Weren't there quite a few games where Lundqvists STATS (b/c that's what you're giving us here) were bad but his play was good. games where we got shutout 4-0 (I think it happenned twice in one series). games where we only score a single goal even going into OT. Double OT. The GA isn't enough to provide an accurate analysis.

For instance watching game 1 the other day that was a worse game for him than several games where he gave up 3 or more in the PO's. I'd argue this game 1 game was one of his worst because it single handedly cost us a split on the road and possibly this series. Game 1 was much worse and much more backbreaking as John said than Game 2 in terms of Lundqvist's performance.

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05-20-2013, 08:33 AM
  #400
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I personally think you're not giving Lundqvist enough responsibility for his own playoff performances. And also not giving Roy and Brodeur enough credit for theirs.
Lundqvist's regular season and playoff statistics are virtually identical. So if we rave about his multiple Vezina caliber seasons, why is that not enough in the playoffs?

I give Roy and Brodeur tons of credit. They were great. Its also a lot easier when you have several generational talents playing in front of them like they did. Besides 1 season of Jagr, find me that on the Rangers.

You cant expect any goaltender to carry a team to a cup thats simply not good enough to win a cup.

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