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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Swiss showed: NHL, KHL, SHMHL don't matter, you need a team

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Old
05-20-2013, 05:48 AM
  #101
Dijay
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Originally Posted by CASUAL KEV View Post
Doesn't mean anything. They overachieved with their best players when other countries didn't have theirs. They got put in their place in the final. Everyone likes an underdog so they look into it to much.

Until they develop some individual talent it will be impossible for them to be on the level of the big 4 (Can, Rus, Swe, USA)
Swiss team was a B team in Stockholm too! Maybe Canada was more an A team than Switzerland !

Streit, Sbisa, Hiller, Brunner, Romy, Wick, Baertschi, Weber were not here. I'm ok for the top 4, but Swiss team is now a very seriously underdog!


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05-20-2013, 09:44 AM
  #102
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I was actually waiting how long does it take until someone says that ice hockey is easier on big ice. That's a typical North America centric view, and it's wrong. Playing and excelling in small rink requires some skills that are not needed that much on big ice. In that sense you're correct, but it isn't that simple. Excelling on big ice emphasizes skills that are not needed that much in small rink. It's a different game.

Even if the international ice were 40 meters wide, you'd need skills to be better than others. Messi might not excel in futsal but it still doesn't mean that soccer is easier when compared to the variation which is speedier and played in small indoor pitch.

Personally I think the NHL rink is too small today. Some 40 years ago it was a different thing, but the players today are too fast and big for 26m wide rink. I think 28m rink is a good compromise: there's enough room to do something else than dump'n chase and wrestle in the boards.
Roto I agree with you for the most part. I never said that it was easier to play on the bigger ice. It does require flat out speed to be sure.

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05-20-2013, 09:50 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Dijay View Post
Swiss team was a B team in Stockholm too! Maybe Canada was more an A team than Switzerland !

Streit, Sbisa, Hiller, Brunner, Romy, Wick, Baertschi, Weber were not here. I'm ok for the top 4, but Swiss team is now a very seriously underdog!
Maybe Canada had three "A" team players for their final game against Sweden.

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05-20-2013, 09:54 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by roto View Post
It's one measuring stick, but not very good. As I mentioned previously, there a a lot of very skilled players who are just too small or soft to get a top-6 spot in NHL and they're also useless in lower lines for same reasons. It means that they may have the talent but not the size. It's hard for these borderline cases to get a spot in NHL but they still might be very good on big ice while NHL grinders may not be very useful.

Examples from Finland:
Komarov, Hartikainen, Petrell and Joensuu have played in NHL. Are they more talented and skilled than top Finnish KHL forwards like Kontiola, Pesonen, Immonen, Aaltonen or even guys like Salminen? No. They just fullfill the requirements of NHL grinder role. Then there's Miettinen who played years as 1st line winger and still plays in NHL. He has no chances to Sochi and is behind many KHL forwards.

What is then a good measuring stick, I don't know but I know NHL status isn't a good measuring stick. WC tournaments actually show something about player pool depth and shows how non-NHLers can play with and against NHLers. One tournament (WC, olympic or World Cup) tells almost nothing, but yearly WC has quite big sample size and good sample rate, so WCs tell in long term something about depth and talent level in different leagues.

Olympic tournament is nice to watch, but it proves nothing else than which team was best in that tournament. Some 4-7 games (of which three are basically meaningless) every four years isn't just enough to make any conclusions, even though some fans think so.
Agreed on all points. Grinders do have a high level of skill but in an area that doesn't translate to needs on te bigger ice surface. Plus I could handle playing grinders in a one game take all but not so hot playing them in a best of seven. These are players that are really hard to play against on the smaller ice surface.

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05-20-2013, 10:00 AM
  #105
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Um, did you conveniently miss that post where they were missing their best NLA players, not to mention Streit, Brunner, Sbisa, Hiller, Baertschi and Weber.
Then you look at what players the top 4 teams are missing, and you realize that mentioning those players is really silly.

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05-20-2013, 10:40 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
Then you look at what players the top 4 teams are missing, and you realize that mentioning those players is really silly.
It's silly mentioning that Switzerland would be a better team with those players?

Among those players are two top-6 forwards and two top-4 defenders in the NHL.

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05-20-2013, 04:54 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by albator71 View Post
I agree with you, I might be the only Canadian who prefers watching European hockey than NHL, there's a ton of fantastic hockey players playing in the different domestic leagues in Europe. I love to watch the game on the big ice, players can be a lot more "creative" on the big ice, u can control the puck more.

But what i love the most about European hockey is the fans, the atmosphere is second to none, the chanting, all the flags, the beating of the drums its unreal. And the players are more close to the fans in Europe I think, they appreciate their fans more.
I hate the big ice. Every year I wish that the Leagues in Europe would finally change it. What is even more annoying is that of the two leagues I could watch one plays 4 on 4 in Playoff Overtime and the other have a Shootout after 20 Minutes. I could cry when i watch these games and one goes to extra time

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05-20-2013, 09:32 PM
  #108
Uncle Rotter
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beyond that ... some years ago 1 player made a difference : Jagr
Or look at Slovakia's record with or without Chara

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05-20-2013, 09:35 PM
  #109
Do Make Say Think
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Don't get me wrong

This is great for Switzerland's hockey program and great for the sport in general

But let's see if this was fluke or if the program is going to be able to keep this up before claiming that they've proved anything

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05-20-2013, 10:22 PM
  #110
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Good job by the Swiss, never realized there was as many NHLers from there until I watched.

Nino honestly looked like a top six NHLer from what I watched. Looks like he's ready for the Isles next year.

Josi really was impressive as well.

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:47 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Supersonic View Post
It's silly mentioning that Switzerland would be a better team with those players?

Among those players are two top-6 forwards and two top-4 defenders in the NHL.
And a starting goaltender. Yeah I know Hiller isn't that good anymore but he was still Anaheim's #1 this year

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