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Old
05-20-2013, 08:30 AM
  #901
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Holy ****, Coburn only had 5 points this year? How did I miss that?

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05-20-2013, 08:54 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Holy ****, Coburn only had 5 points this year? How did I miss that?
probably too busy swearing at him for his stupid play

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Old
05-20-2013, 09:32 AM
  #903
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I really like streit. He has played well for the islanders and proven he still is a top pairing defender. I understand he isn't the one we are looking for(young) to build around, but he would be a major upgrade over Coburn, especially on offense. He could quarterback the second PP and give us 20 mins a night. He also hasn't played in the NHL for his whole career. Not saying that other leagues are soft but he hasn't taken the beating he could have. He came over when he was 27 years old. He wants a 3 year deal for 5.5. If we move Coburn for a young defender or even package him for Ryan, I would have no problems trying to trade for his rights at the draft or going after him in the offseason.

I do suspect that Ryan will be traded for. I am not in favor of waiting for him to sign with us. We have seen many teams get burned that way. We should remember Ryan is still very young, get him now in his offensive peak and we have a nice top line for giroux

Ryan-giroux-voracek
Hartnell-schenn-Simmonds
Gagne/FA-couts-read
Talbot-Laughton-rinaldo
Rosy

Kimmo-schenn
Streit-mez
Grossmann-Gus

Or you could try and move mez. If you do just insert Coburn back into the lineup. I honestly think Coburn could fetch a 1st and good prospect from a team like Montreal or Detroit. They need steady big defenseman who will give them a solid 22 minutes a night. They just don't grow on trees.

Also if we have to trade couts for Ryan(hoping not) just slide Laughton up to the 3rd line center. We can sign a 4th line center(Gordon, my dream 4th line center)

There is too much to try and cover what we will do. One thing we all should know though is this team will be different. I will not be relying on mcginn/akeson for a top 9 role and I hope to hell homer isn't either. Gus shouldn't be in the top 4 next year unless there is injuries also. Let him be groomed the right way on the third pairing with grossmann. He will allow him to join the rush. I'm happy Gus is improving, but we should all be a little hesitant to throw him into the top 4. Again that would mean we are a playoff tweener probably, fighting to 7-8 spot in the east.

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05-20-2013, 09:41 AM
  #904
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Also one team to maybe keep an eye on this offseason is the Dallas stars. They might go into full re-build mode. They have been a fringe team for so long now and can never seem to get over the hump. They might think about growing a team from the draft. Eriksson and dare I say Benn might be available? I would trade couts+ in a heartbeat for Benn. He could either play wing with giroux or 2nd line center. Man that is a pipe dream, but would be amazing


Last edited by Prongo: 05-20-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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05-20-2013, 10:19 AM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I really like streit. He has played well for the islanders and proven he still is a top pairing defender. I understand he isn't the one we are looking for(young) to build around, but he would be a major upgrade over Coburn, especially on offense. He could quarterback the second PP and give us 20 mins a night. He also hasn't played in the NHL for his whole career. Not saying that other leagues are soft but he hasn't taken the beating he could have. He came over when he was 27 years old. He wants a 3 year deal for 5.5. If we move Coburn for a young defender or even package him for Ryan, I would have no problems trying to trade for his rights at the draft or going after him in the offseason.

I do suspect that Ryan will be traded for. I am not in favor of waiting for him to sign with us. We have seen many teams get burned that way. We should remember Ryan is still very young, get him now in his offensive peak and we have a nice top line for giroux

Ryan-giroux-voracek
Hartnell-schenn-Simmonds
Gagne/FA-couts-read
Talbot-Laughton-rinaldo
Rosy

Kimmo-schenn
Streit-mez
Grossmann-Gus

Or you could try and move mez. If you do just insert Coburn back into the lineup. I honestly think Coburn could fetch a 1st and good prospect from a team like Montreal or Detroit. They need steady big defenseman who will give them a solid 22 minutes a night. They just don't grow on trees.

Also if we have to trade couts for Ryan(hoping not) just slide Laughton up to the 3rd line center. We can sign a 4th line center(Gordon, my dream 4th line center)

There is too much to try and cover what we will do. One thing we all should know though is this team will be different. I will not be relying on mcginn/akeson for a top 9 role and I hope to hell homer isn't either. Gus shouldn't be in the top 4 next year unless there is injuries also. Let him be groomed the right way on the third pairing with grossmann. He will allow him to join the rush. I'm happy Gus is improving, but we should all be a little hesitant to throw him into the top 4. Again that would mean we are a playoff tweener probably, fighting to 7-8 spot in the east.
So, who did you trade to get Ryan?

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Old
05-20-2013, 10:21 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
So, who did you trade to get Ryan?
Duh Nobody!

I said we could use a package deal with Coburn in it or even Couts. I put in parenthesis that I hope it wasn't Couts, but if we did move Laughton up to the 3rd line center spot.

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Old
05-20-2013, 10:26 AM
  #907
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Coburn + 11th + 1st 2014 + Cousins

for

Ryan + Sbisa

Ryan - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn
Hartnell - Laughton - Read
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Grossmann
Sbisa - (Meszaros)

Mason
(Eriksson)



Thinking about it, that package may not get Ryan + Sbisa, but it certainly has some power to get Ryan.

Real question is whether or not we want to play this game with draft picks again.

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05-20-2013, 10:32 AM
  #908
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I am not trading two first round draft picks+ Coburn+Cousins for Bobby Ryan. That's more than we got for Carter and Richards, and they play center. Ryan is a winger, which will help lower his value a little.

That proposal is even worse when you think it has the power to just get Ryan. If I am looking to trade two firsts, Coburn(top 4) and Cousins(top 3 prospect in our system) I am not looking for a winger, it's a defenseman I want coming back, and a good one at that.

EDIT: On another note, looking at the main boards, if Dallas moves Eriksson they will be extremely disappointed in the return. They are expecting the moon.

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Old
05-20-2013, 10:40 AM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I am not trading two first round draft picks+ Coburn+Cousins for Bobby Ryan. That's more than we got for Carter and Richards, and they play center. Ryan is a winger, which will help lower his value a little.

That proposal is even worse when you think it has the power to just get Ryan. If I am looking to trade two firsts, Coburn(top 4) and Cousins(top 3 prospect in our system) I am not looking for a winger, it's a defenseman I want coming back, and a good one at that.

EDIT: On another note, looking at the main boards, if Dallas moves Eriksson they will be extremely disappointed in the return. They are expecting the moon.
It's not ideal, but if that could get us Ryan and Sbisa without dropping Laughton or Couturier, it might be worth a look.

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Old
05-20-2013, 10:46 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
It's not ideal, but if that could get us Ryan and Sbisa without dropping Laughton or Couturier, it might be worth a look.
I would be willing to include our first from this year is the Flyers are hell bent on getting Ryan. Anaheim is looking for futures though, they need a second line center and top 4 dman. Some Anaheim fans will try and say they don't need a 2nd line center, but there is a reason they were rumored around the deadline looking at Roy and Macdonald. They have youth, but I don't think their GM is going to roll the dice and hope they step up and take the role.

My deals for Ryan would be

1st+Cousins+3rd rounder(2014)
Couts+2nd rounder.

I don't even really like those deals. Ryan is a good player, but he isn't worth depleting our prospect system for or draft selections. The only way I am doing that is for a select few defenders, all of which don't seem to be on the market right now.

Also unless a great deal comes along, I don't believe the Flyers are moving that 2014 deal. One hold up in the Clowe deal was the Flyers were unwilling to move that pick because we hold the draft.

EDIT: Also when it comes to offseason trades for high end players, I try to follow the RIchards and Carter guidelines for deals. Richards got us a top 9 player(who seemed to stall in development, but potential was there), top prospect(Schenn, still highly regarded) and a 2nd rounder. Carter got us Voracek(at the time he was very inconsistent on a bad team, talent was surely there though)+top 10 pick+3rd rounder. Now I uinderstand that players all have different values to different GM's but those deals are the types you see.


Last edited by Prongo: 05-20-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Old
05-20-2013, 10:46 AM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn + 11th + 1st 2014 + Cousins

for

Ryan + Sbisa

Ryan - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn
Hartnell - Laughton - Read
Rinaldo - Hall - Talbot

Timonen - Schenn
Gustafsson - Grossmann
Sbisa - (Meszaros)

Mason
(Eriksson)



Thinking about it, that package may not get Ryan + Sbisa, but it certainly has some power to get Ryan.

Real question is whether or not we want to play this game with draft picks again.
I wouldn't do that deal for just Ryan.

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Old
05-20-2013, 11:51 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
What about Ian White or dare I say Marc-Andre Bergeron.
Ian White is Mike Richards' summer drinking buddy from Lake of the Woods so he might not fit in well on Dry Island.

He couldn't get ice time, and complained about it, on a Wings team desperate for D help. I suspect he's Europe Bound.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
I am pretty much guaranteeing that Bobby Ryan is wearing Orange and Black come September, probably a lot sooner.
My bets are Clarkson or Horton. As much as they want Ryan, I think they would prefer to trade the assets it would take to get him for a defenseman.

Homer said he wants to get bigger, so Horton will be a target... and Clarkson is what the organization would consider a "Flyer type player"...and with the FA market thin already, I cant see the Flyers not taking a run at both of those guys. I wouldn't mind either, but I cringe at the overpayment they would get.

Rinaldo-Laughton-Clarkson would be the ultimate pest line...I just dont see the value in paying a 3rd line RW 5 mil a year tho.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #914
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I don't want neither Horton or Clarkson. Horton seems to average a concussion a year now and Clarkson will get way more money than he deserves.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:24 PM
  #915
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Neither of them would provide good value for money.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Somebody hasn't been watching Gus lately... He is going to be the real wild card next season. There's honestly few teams, maybe 2 or 3, in the NHL who's roster I would take over ours.
Jesus christ you cannot be serious?

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
...

Gus is not a question mark.

Gagne is not either. We all know what he is at this point in his career.

McGinn/Akeson is a toss up. Neither need to be on the team realistically. If either makes it, then awesome. McGinn is certainly NHL-ready, and Akeson gets as much hate around here as Gus does. It's pretty retarded. I'm not saying Akeson should be penciled into the lineup, but you have to be an absolute moron to believe he's not going to get a look.

On top of that, we'll be looking for forwards in the offseason. There might be a few buyouts or other top 9 options. Laughton is another possibility.

Mason is not ideal, but he's as good as Bryzgalov at this point. We're getting crappy goaltending anyway, so I'd rather stick with the option that has the potential to be better than expected. That's Mason.

Meszaros' health is a question mark. You got me on that one.

So yeah, I'm a homer for thinking through things instead of accepting things as fact. Awesome. Next time I urge you to apply some critical thinking.


And Coburn was not nearly as bad as people claim. The snowballing of this rumor is absurd.
Gus played well this year and has shown flashes but I am not ready to pencil him in as top 4 defender on a contender.

Yeah we do know what Gagne is, an injury waiting to happen.

So you say we will have crappy goaltending, which happens to be a pretty important position in hockey, but then say we have a stacked roster.

Without those concerns, you are counting on Schenn and Couturier to take a big step, definitely possible but not a given.

I think this organization has some serious talent, but if this roster is stacked, then I don't know what you would call some of the other rosters in this league.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Jesus christ you cannot be serious?
I'd put our offense top 5, our defense top 10, and Bryzgalov top 50.

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05-20-2013, 12:34 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'd put our offense top 5, our defense top 10, and Bryzgalov top 50.
A top 5 offense would be able to score at even strength.

I would say top 10 for offense, top 15 for defense, and I agree with Bryz.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:35 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Gus played well this year and has shown flashes but I am not ready to pencil him in as top 4 defender on a contender.
Nonsense. He's Randy Jones. Don't sugarcoat it for our sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Yeah we do know what Gagne is, an injury waiting to happen.
And we have plenty of top 9 call-ups to choose from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
So you say we will have crappy goaltending, which happens to be a pretty important position in hockey, but then say we have a stacked roster.
Goaltending is not the most important position in the NHL. All you need to do is not have crap goaltending to be successful as long as you have the roster to counter it. Unfortunately, Bryzgalov is the ultimate crap goaltend---I mean Leighton. Oh, whatever, same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Without those concerns, you are counting on Schenn and Couturier to take a big step, definitely possible but not a given.
To believe that Schenn and Couturier could be 40-50 point forwards next season is not a "big" step. Realistically though, we don't really need both of them to be offensively successful; only one of them really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
I think this organization has some serious talent, but if this roster is stacked, then I don't know what you would call some of the other rosters in this league.
Overrated and old.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
A top 5 offense would be able to score at even strength.
As long as they had puck-moving defensemen to get the puck out of the zone at even strength.

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05-20-2013, 12:39 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'd put our offense top 5, our defense top 10, and Bryzgalov top 50.
Chicago
St. Louis
New York Rangers
Pittsburgh
Boston
Los Angeles
Montreal
Phoenix
Vancouver
Nashville

Those are 10 off the top of my head that I would take over the Flyers. You are also relying on Timonen staying healthy for another season when his play has been on the decline since the run to the Finals.

You acknowledge this but still say our roster is stacked. Goaltending is a vital position. We made a run to the finals with awful goaltending in '09, but that roster had two number 1 dmen with Coburn and Carle playing their best hockey. We no longer have anything close to a number 1 dman.

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05-20-2013, 12:41 PM
  #923
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I am not all doom and gloom like others around here. I think the Flyers have a very bright future. But until you add a number 1 defenseman and a reliable goalie, this team isn't going anywhere.

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05-20-2013, 12:41 PM
  #924
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As long as they had puck-moving defensemen to get the puck out of the zone at even strength.
I some what disagree with that. They did it the year before with basically the same roster. They had Carle but the Flyers scored more when he was off the ice IIRC.

The offense isn't top 5 unless the young guys step up. Getting PMD would help too but that's not the sole reason for that this year.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Chicago
St. Louis
New York Rangers
Pittsburgh
Boston
Los Angeles
Montreal
Phoenix
Vancouver
Nashville

Those are 10 off the top of my head that I would take over the Flyers. You are also relying on Timonen staying healthy for another season when his play has been on the decline since the run to the Finals.

You acknowledge this but still say our roster is stacked. Goaltending is a vital position. We made a run to the finals with awful goaltending in '09, but that roster had two number 1 dmen with Coburn and Carle playing their best hockey. We no longer have anything close to a number 1 dman.
I'm assuming a lot, but my interpretation of a top 10 defense is...

Timonen (2012-13 level) - Schenn (2012-13 level)
Gustafsson (WC level) - Coburn (2010-2012 level)
Meszaros (wildcard) - Grossmann (2012-13 level)

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