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05-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #76
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I would be perfectly content with that defense.

McDonagh-McIlrath*
MDZ-Petry
Moore-Stralman

*Also factor in FA signings like Rob Scuderi, who could slot in perfectly in the lineup. This defense corps is VERY mobile and I think it'll help tremendously with the transition game. Time for a culture change.
I believe you would be in the minority. If the Rangers move Girardi, they can't move Staal. It works the other way as well. One or the other.

I don't think the value is there for just Petry + 2nd.

I would do Petry + EDM 1st '13 with a conditional pick associated with him re-signing in EDM like a 2nd '15.

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05-20-2013, 02:25 PM
  #77
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And I should say, I am in the group that would be okay moving Girardi before he gets too old as I think his style of play, like Volchenkov, will lead to a rapid deterioration of skills, speed and hockey ability. However, I don't like THIS deal.

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05-20-2013, 02:25 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Hartikainen has better numbers than Zach Kassian, who I really like from the Canucks. Neither seem to play with a mean streak in the Pro levels yet, but it seems Hartikainen has more offensive tools. He is a good replacement for Clowe down the line. Petry 2nd and Hartikainen, done deal from me.
As much as I hate the Nucks, I'd take Kassian 10 times out of 10. The only area I'd say Harti is better is working the cycle behind the net. It's not just his strength on his skates and body positioning to shield the puck, but how he uses picks - especially the angle he'll skate around the net. I've seen him make many a vet defenceman look foolish or weak. But Kassian is a better skater, better shot, hits more, fights, still has top 6 forward potential. Harti just doesn't have the skating to be more than a grinding 3/4th liner. Maybe a Holmstrom if he learns to screen and deflect pucks better.

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05-20-2013, 02:27 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
As much as I hate the Nucks, I'd take Kassian 10 times out of 10. The only area I'd say Harti is better is working the cycle behind the net. It's not just his strength on his skates and body positioning to shield the puck, but how he uses picks - especially the angle he'll skate around the net. I've seen him make many a vet defenceman look foolish or weak. But Kassian is a better skater, better shot, hits more, fights, still has top 6 forward potential. Harti just doesn't have the skating to be more than a grinding 3/4th liner. Maybe a Holmstrom if he learns to screen and deflect pucks better.
Agreed. I would love Kassian. I have a feeling, so would Gorton (who drafted Lucic in BOS and McIlrath in NY)

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05-20-2013, 02:34 PM
  #80
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what about a girardi+dz for weber trade? last summer there was speculation that nashville wanted to move his contract.

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05-20-2013, 02:43 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Petry is a RHD too. Yes, not in the same calibre as Girardi, but I don't see why he wouldn't play in your top 4. His only problem is he is Jekyll and Hyde from one night to the next. Under softies like Renney and Kreuger he hasn't found the consistency, under a hard ass like Torts this may happen. But that's really the only risk attached to him is the learning curve. In terms of skillset I think he is considerably ahead of Girardi, but Girardi has more poise, thinks the game better and has the heart of a lion, as well as more experience to draw upon.
We already have a player like that in Anton Stralman. The problem is trading Girardi for another Stalman is counter-productive to making the team better now as opposed to in the long run by gambling on a 2nd round pick.

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Again, I understand any team making a deal wants to be getting the best player, hence your Girardi + for Hall counter, but there is zero incentive for us there. In my proposal however I feel there is some incentive (just not sure it's enough), in that
It's not about getting the best player, it's about giving up a prime asset in return for a prime asset.

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A) You gain some cap flexibility - 1.5 mil roughly. Could help in an off-season where you need to re-sign Stepan, McDonagh and Hagelin. I realize this could still be achieved without the proposed deal, but you may be limited with additional tweaking beyond that.

B) Petry still falls under the "potential" tag. He has the skillset to be better than Girardi but lacks the discipline/consistency/intangibles. It's a big maybe, but maybe the Rangers end up with the best player 3-4 years from now.

C) You get controlled years. He is RFA next year vs Girardi being UFA.

D) You get a pretty good draft pick in a strong draft year when you currently have no pick in the first two rounds (or do you guys even have a 3rd rder???).
A) We'll have cap flexibility when we buyout Richards.

B) We can't afford to wait 3-4 years to have the best player. We need good players right now, especially if we're trading one like Girardi.

C) We have another year to figure out Girardi's UFA contract or deal him if necessary.

D) We have two 3rd rounders. Possibly a 3rd from Columbus if we fail to make the SCF. If we want to move up into the 2nd, we can package a couple of those picks, or deal a spare roster forward.

Again, this all boils down to not giving up Girardi for a downgrade. Could we win the deal in 3-4 years? Sure, but we're a now team as long as Lundqvist is in net.

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05-20-2013, 02:46 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
what about a girardi+dz for weber trade? last summer there was speculation that nashville wanted to move his contract.
A) Nashville has absolutely no interest in moving Weber. They matched for a reason.

B) It would take alot more then DZ + Girardi. They won'y even pick up to phone if two of Stepan/Kreider/McDonagh aren't involved.

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05-20-2013, 03:01 PM
  #83
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Girardi was absolutely brutal last night... his head just wasn't in the game whatsoever. That Marchand goal? He didn't even take a look behind him to see where Marchand's stick was and try to tie it up. Idk what the deal is... I mean, sometimes Girardi is SPOT ON and neutralizes whoever he is on the ice against. Other times, he's brutal.

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05-20-2013, 03:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I believe you would be in the minority. If the Rangers move Girardi, they can't move Staal. It works the other way as well. One or the other.

I don't think the value is there for just Petry + 2nd.

I would do Petry + EDM 1st '13 with a conditional pick associated with him re-signing in EDM like a 2nd '15.
When was the last time a defenseman on the last year of his contract returned that much in a trade? I can only remember Chris Pronger who returned Sbisa, 2009 1rst, 2010 1rst and Lupul. Maybe Tomas Kaberle who returned Colbourne and a late 1rst. Girardi isn't worth the 7th overall pick with 1 yr on his contract. Maybe Klefbom and say Hemsky is reasonable for Girardi when comparing to Beachemin's return of Lupul and Gardiner.

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05-20-2013, 07:49 PM
  #85
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Reminds me of the post about the Rangers being better off without Hank.

Girardi had a bad game, no disputing that. you don't ship off a player based on a bad game.
i don't agree with the meme that he has been brutal this season, he has not been. He struggled after blocking PK's shot, but that's it. But guess what, he suited up next game.

I am not trading Girardi just because the natives are restless.

For Petry + 2nd, Oilers can have Stralman.

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05-20-2013, 07:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Reminds me of the post about the Rangers being better off without Hank.

Girardi had a bad game, no disputing that. you don't ship off a player based on a bad game.
i don't agree with the meme that he has been brutal this season, he has not been. He struggled after blocking PK's shot, but that's it. But guess what, he suited up next game.

I am not trading Girardi just because the natives are restless.

For Petry + 2nd, Oilers can have Stralman.
id love Peckham.. Rangers need some more toughness until McILrath proves he is 100% ready. rangers have no nastyness on defense.. i know some fans dont want a dman fighting but id want someone to knock someone down if they are in front of Lundqvist...


Boyle for Peckham and 2ed??? rather keep Stralman.. he has been solid....

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05-20-2013, 07:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The guy is regularly matched up against some of the best players in the world and has done exceedingly well at shutting them down. Nobody was complaining when he and McDonagh were shutting down AO & company, and now that he has one bad game the bashing has started again.

He's not the fastest skater, or most offensively talented, but people seriously underestimate just how important he is to this defense. RH, shutdown defenders aren't exactly growing on trees. Especially ones who can eat up 25 minutes or more per night against some of the best players in the world.
Agreed 1000%
It's what have you done for me lately.

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05-21-2013, 07:47 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
When was the last time a defenseman on the last year of his contract returned that much in a trade? I can only remember Chris Pronger who returned Sbisa, 2009 1rst, 2010 1rst and Lupul. Maybe Tomas Kaberle who returned Colbourne and a late 1rst. Girardi isn't worth the 7th overall pick with 1 yr on his contract. Maybe Klefbom and say Hemsky is reasonable for Girardi when comparing to Beachemin's return of Lupul and Gardiner.
Beauchemain was struggling in Toronto.

When was the last time a top-pairing heart and soul defender was moved in his prime?

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05-21-2013, 07:54 AM
  #89
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A) Nashville has absolutely no interest in moving Weber. They matched for a reason.

B) It would take alot more then DZ + Girardi. They won'y even pick up to phone if two of Stepan/Kreider/McDonagh aren't involved.
Getting Weber wouldn't be worth it. We would lose too much. Weber is a franchise defense man and top-5 in the NHL.

It would take something along the lines of Girardi + Stepan + Kreider + draft pick (1st/2nd round).

I don't think people realize how much it would take to acquire a player of Weber's caliber. A GM won't move an elite, top-5 player in his position, for anything less than a huge return.

Girardi has a bad season, a good first round, and a poor start to Boston. That said, I'd advocate to keep Girardi on the team.

If we moved any defense man, I'd be more interested in moving Del Zotto. Del Zotto is an offensive minded defense man who just doesn't have the skating ability to be proficient in that role. And it hasn't improved since getting here, and I doubt it will.

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