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New Arena Thread: Rogers Place? Yawn...

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Old
05-17-2013, 03:41 PM
  #326
jadeddog
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Originally Posted by oiler-dude View Post
I believe there's only limited underground parking (one level), and everything else is above-ground in the arena (no sunken bowl as is customary), so they likely won't be dig all that deep. My guess, anyway.
no sunken bowl? really? that is the first i've heard of this... strange... i guess that "pedway" (or whateve its called) that will go over the street will then feed into the concourse in between the two main teirs of seating?

i've never been in a NHL arena that didn't have a sunken bowl... are there any that have used this design?

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05-17-2013, 03:49 PM
  #327
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no sunken bowl? really? that is the first i've heard of this... strange... i guess that "pedway" (or whateve its called) that will go over the street will then feed into the concourse in between the two main teirs of seating?

i've never been in a NHL arena that didn't have a sunken bowl... are there any that have used this design?
MSG doesn't...

I think the reason for no sunken bowl is cost... significantly more expensive to dig down. So you get more bang for your buck by putting it above.

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05-17-2013, 04:02 PM
  #328
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MSG doesn't...

I think the reason for no sunken bowl is cost... significantly more expensive to dig down. So you get more bang for your buck by putting it above.
MSG is above ground cause Penn Station is below madison square. Watching a game at MSG was an interesting experience. Ice level is significantly higher than steet level. And the trek to the 500's where we sat, was at least 10 minutes, and several escalators

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05-17-2013, 04:03 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
no sunken bowl? really? that is the first i've heard of this... strange... i guess that "pedway" (or whateve its called) that will go over the street will then feed into the concourse in between the two main teirs of seating?

i've never been in a NHL arena that didn't have a sunken bowl... are there any that have used this design?
I think part of the "wow" factor intended in present design is size related and with the snazzy shiny building looming over heads. I'm not a fan of the design elements or its human or streetfront interaction and think it is one of the spaceship type arenas dropped incongruently onto street level.

But it is what it is.

Its strange in this climate particularly because it just makes so much sense to have sub level development in this climate. Excavating clay is exceedingly cheap and easy, and there could be immense climate and heating/cooling benefits obtained by having much of at subground level.

PS how cool would this be?

A huge glass plexiglass dome "square" people could walk on at slightly above street level and the entire arena facility is located underground directly beneath. Call it the Iglomole..

Done on the cheap, very suitable for this climate, and no big concern for how purty it looks and how much it costs. Could probably build such a facility for half the price and people could look down on the action from street level or up at street level from inside the facility. That would be a neat and unique interaction suitable for here and not seen in many places.

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05-17-2013, 04:07 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
MSG doesn't...

I think the reason for no sunken bowl is cost... significantly more expensive to dig down. So you get more bang for your buck by putting it above.
Under the arena will be a four or five level parkade, I believe. I think the plaza across the street will also have a multi-level underground parkade.

I think the biggest reason for no sunken bowl is because the Wintergarden and LRT connection will be the two most common ways to get into the building. It's way easier to just have traffic flooding into the main concourse instead of finding a way to get most of them to go down a level once they enter.

I think that it would actually cost more to put the arena bowl at ground level because that means you have more exterior and thus more finish.

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05-17-2013, 04:25 PM
  #331
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Under the arena will be a four or five level parkade, I believe. I think the plaza across the street will also have a multi-level underground parkade.

I think the biggest reason for no sunken bowl is because the Wintergarden and LRT connection will be the two most common ways to get into the building. It's way easier to just have traffic flooding into the main concourse instead of finding a way to get most of them to go down a level once they enter.

I think that it would actually cost more to put the arena bowl at ground level because that means you have more exterior and thus more finish.
They have confirmed only 1 level parkade at the arena, but yes parkades elsewhere in the area.

And according to this CTV article, building above ground "will not only mean bigger concourses for fans, but also save money in the construction of the facility, because the project would not require extensive excavation."

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05-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #332
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Wouldn't t make more sense anyway to have the Oil Kings and Rush play at Northlands while the big boys play at the DTA? Even if the DTA will only be marginally bigger seating wise, more seats will show more holes in Edmonton's already shallow support for both teams.
I thought the Oil Kings were well liked in Edmonton.

Also, I like the thought of the Oil Kings playing at Rexall as opposed to sharing the new arena w/ the Oilers. The Vancouver Giants get the old Coliseum, making it their true home and IMO to looks weird watching the Hitmen play in an arena with another teams logo slapped on centre ice all season long.

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05-17-2013, 05:48 PM
  #333
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I thought the Oil Kings were well liked in Edmonton.

Also, I like the thought of the Oil Kings playing at Rexall as opposed to sharing the new arena w/ the Oilers. The Vancouver Giants get the old Coliseum, making it their true home and IMO to looks weird watching the Hitmen play in an arena with another teams logo slapped on centre ice all season long.
You must have missed the criticisms surrounding Edmonton's support of the Oil Kings during the WHL final. Portland packed their building every game and were loud as heck whereas Edmonton failed to sell 8000 tickets for Game 6 at Rexall, and the building sounded like a morgue all series.

I'm over it, and the criticisms were a tad hyperbolic but the Shaw broadcasters wouldn't let us hear the end of it. The folks on Edmonton radio and even the players (on Twitter) got into the act. They were practically begging fans to show up and get loud.

Anyway, off-topic...

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05-17-2013, 07:43 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Slicknitty View Post
There's a greyhound station, a staples office depot, a few small parking lots, a casino and a huge gravel parking lot where the arena will be. There's a new LRT station being built north of that big gravel parking lot -- adjacent to it. Shouldn't take very long to clear.
So then why is it going to take a year to break ground. Why not start this fall?

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05-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #335
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So then why is it going to take a year to break ground. Why not start this fall?

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05-18-2013, 12:21 AM
  #336
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So then why is it going to take a year to break ground. Why not start this fall?
The project evaluation and assessment that is needed to closely determine, and guarantee a cost ranges takes a fair while to complete. This would involve I imagine soil testing, assessment of any underground easements in area, need for remediation of land in area, asessing materials and project cost etc.

I agree this should have been done but the problem is the costs of all the above are estimated at around 8M bucks and its not something you're going to do if you don't build the arena.

What I would like to see, and hope it gets done, is that all materials for the arena are ordered, stockpiled, and at the ready for when this thing does start to go up. The one thing one would think could be mitigated is that theres time for organizing and acquiring materials so that shortages in real time do not impact the project pacing.

Once this thing gets going its a pretty tight construction schedule so any help in organizing would I think be warranted.

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05-18-2013, 02:02 PM
  #337
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All I really care about is that this arena is built to be loud! Both live and on TV. If its not loud like Rexall is (playoffs), a piece of my heart dies with the new arena. I want the worlds best sporting event amphitheatre!

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05-18-2013, 02:13 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by NewOilRising View Post
Wouldn't t make more sense anyway to have the Oil Kings and Rush play at Northlands while the big boys play at the DTA? Even if the DTA will only be marginally bigger seating wise, more seats will show more holes in Edmonton's already shallow support for both teams.
On the contrary, the new arena will have a much greater opportunity to create demand for tickets because it can be played at a lower capacity. The lower bowl will have around 9,000 seats as opposed to the 6,800 that Rexall Place currently has. This means that you can curtain off the entire upper bowl and create sufficient demand.

This is exactly what Portland does and why they're so successful. They don't open the upper bowl for junior hockey for any reason. When people know that there won't be a large supply of tickets, they purchase them in advance and in the end that is what results in larger crowds.

Also, having all the fans in the lower bowl will help improve the atmosphere.

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05-18-2013, 02:23 PM
  #339
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Funny you should mention that.

It comes across as a bit of a puff piece, but it does shed some light on what to expect:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/05/1...nned-new-arena
Thanks Digger.

And thanks to everyone else who contributed some useful links.

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05-18-2013, 09:24 PM
  #340
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It would be nice to see some specific plans for the whole district, including of course, the arena itself.

I haven't read this entire thread, but if anyone has links to the details, it would be much appreciated.
You can usually follow ongoing developments here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...22355&page=281

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05-18-2013, 09:53 PM
  #341
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You can usually follow ongoing developments here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...22355&page=281
Maybe Edmonton will finally erect some real skyscrapers. As long as they are not ugly like the Bow in Cowtown I am all for it.

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05-20-2013, 09:02 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Maybe Edmonton will finally erect some real skyscrapers. As long as they are not ugly like the Bow in Cowtown I am all for it.
Probably not going to happen, Epcor was the first in how many years?

Around 3 years ago now ATB was inquiring about building a new tower. Katz reportably brought in Santiago Calatrava to put a design forward to ATB, but eventually they moved into Telus Tower. I'm not sure what the vacancy is now, but doubt there is enough demand for a full office tower yet.

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05-20-2013, 01:04 PM
  #343
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So I've read a couple or a few of the links provided.

Sounds like they are going for "world class" ice surface, sports entertainment sound and video, user friendly concourse, different types of food (in the arena), larger and sharper big screen etc etc.

One thing I am VERY interested in is the actual concert/performance sound. Is it going to sound like a giant hollow reverberating fishbowl or are they going to tailor the materials into a "world class" concert event sound setup as well?

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05-20-2013, 01:40 PM
  #344
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Probably not going to happen, Epcor was the first in how many years?

Around 3 years ago now ATB was inquiring about building a new tower. Katz reportably brought in Santiago Calatrava to put a design forward to ATB, but eventually they moved into Telus Tower. I'm not sure what the vacancy is now, but doubt there is enough demand for a full office tower yet.
From C2E
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Job No 138628715-001: To construct a Tower addition to an existing Professional, Financial, and Office Support Service building.

10150 - 102 STREET NW

Plan 8720596 Blk 2 Lot A

KASIAN ARCHITECTURE INTERIOR DESIGN & PLANNING LTD.

DOWNTOWN

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05-20-2013, 04:48 PM
  #345
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What are real skyscrapers? Are there fake ones? Do real skyscrapers become real after a certain height? Are the insides bare on the fake ones? I'm confused.

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05-20-2013, 06:14 PM
  #346
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What are real skyscrapers? Are there fake ones? Do real skyscrapers become real after a certain height? Are the insides bare on the fake ones? I'm confused.
Señor, I like how you think. Your sarcastic sense of humor reminds me of me.

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05-20-2013, 08:47 PM
  #347
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I heard there was a piece in the Journal over the weekend, by Rob Black, breaking down the arena features. I was out of town and didn't get a chance to read it.

Anyone have a link? I can't find it on the Journal site.

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05-20-2013, 09:48 PM
  #348
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Bob Black quoted a bunch in this sun article. Think I saw a Journal article with similar quotes.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/05/1...nned-new-arena

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05-20-2013, 09:57 PM
  #349
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What are real skyscrapers? Are there fake ones? Do real skyscrapers become real after a certain height? Are the insides bare on the fake ones? I'm confused.
You ever see that monstrosity that dominates the skyline of Pyongyang NK ?


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05-21-2013, 12:40 AM
  #350
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Bob Black quoted a bunch in this sun article. Think I saw a Journal article with similar quotes.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/05/1...nned-new-arena
What is the 'media ring' feature that was ditched between an earlier design and the final design because it was too expensive?

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