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Old
05-20-2013, 03:08 PM
  #601
poisonivy
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Which teams are sellers next season and which players will London target off of those teams?

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05-20-2013, 03:08 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Every year since they entered the league, with the exception of 96. 99, 02, 05, 08, 11, 14. Never been awarded.
Well, in 2011 it was fruitless to apply. Like Guelph this year, its was always a two horse race. Not sure why they chose to apply then.

2008 Kitchener was a pretty special team. Looking at the rosters im not surprised that Kitchener got it. Barrie didn't have a Justin Azevedo or Nick Spaling. Alot more depth as well. Barrie didn't even have a wining record in 2008.

2005 Again, that was the London dream team. Not sure why anyone would have even went against them.

I cant can't say that I remember the 2002 team much, can't comment there. But again, after the antics of the 2000 team, no one was going to give them anything.

Looking at those application years, Im surprised Barrie kept applying, there where better teams applying who probably had better immediate amenities around the rink. The area around the Molson Centre hasn't really been built up until the last two years.

Its nice to say 'they never got one', but looking at the results and rosters, they probably never deserved one.

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Nobody can except Mr. Branch. Feels more than a little shifty though.
How did you even know that thou? Whose reporting that? Did they ask Branch why he wasn't there?

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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
The decision on Dotchin was pretty terrible too. That's a total of 15 games for nothing. I'm having trouble remembering the 1 gamer for Camara, but I think that was nothing too.
The Dotchin hit was dangerous. Im fine with that suspension. Anytime another player is sent head first into the boards, it needs to be looked at. Again, O'Connor was an awful one, but no different then the Matt Rupert 10 game suspension.

Camara also wasn't suspended for running Max Domi in open ice without the puck, if they where out to 'get the Colts', that would have been a suspension.

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Well, here we'll just agree to disagree. If they're going to consider strength of roster so heavily they need to figure what will be there. Whatever misgivings they were having about Saskatoon embarrassing themselves this year appear to be being disproved. They could lose the next game and the tie-breaker and they still won't have been an embarrassment.
With all due respect, those 'we need the best teams there' concept comes from the horses mouth. I asked Branch at the OHL Cup (hes the coach of the Whitby Minor Midgets, very approachable) and he mentioned that the committee cant assume what moves the teams will make, they need to look at what they have now. They can look at the depth charts and see whose coming in, what assets they have to trade, but they cant take a teams 'word for it' that they will trade for a top guy. You may not like it, but that was the rational.

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05-20-2013, 03:15 PM
  #603
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Tigers since you seem to favor the side of Branch how do you spin selecting Mississauga in 11 over Windsor?

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05-20-2013, 03:18 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Tigers since you seem to favor the side of Branch how do you spin selecting Mississauga in 11 over Windsor?
Curios, Who says I'm favoring Branch?

I don't favour anyone, I just look at the facts and ask people who are smarter then me what they think. Most if not all of my NHL friends suggested that 'they would be shocked if London didn't get it'.

If I have an issue with Branch, I ask him. Hes very open to talk to anyone, not just me.

I don't think Mississauga should have had it, I think that was a bad call. I just don't think there is a magical conspiracy against Barrie. According to the conspiracy (or Bias) the only reason that they have been turned down is personal. Looking at the history of the event and the teams that have awarded the tournament, that's not the case.

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05-20-2013, 03:24 PM
  #605
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I don't see how Plymouth wouldn't go for another run. It's not like they've had a poor year over the last decade. They're London of the West Division - always in it.

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05-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
Curios, Who says I'm favoring Branch?

I don't favour anyone, I just look at the facts and ask people who are smarter then me what they think. Most if not all of my NHL friends suggested that 'they would be shocked if London didn't get it'.

If I have an issue with Branch, I ask him. Hes very open to talk to anyone, not just me.

I don't think Mississauga should have had it, I think that was a bad call. I just don't think there is a magical conspiracy against Barrie. According to the conspiracy (or Bias) the only reason that they have been turned down is personal. Looking at the history of the event and the teams that have awarded the tournament, that's not the case.
Maybe favor is a wrong term but rationalize things that Branch does is a better word. I would throw in 2010 he "forgot" to bring the playoff MVP trophy for game 4 of Barrie-Windsor. Do you think he's honest an up front with you or does he just say it to placate you because according to some people who are part of organizations he isn't as open to talk about things.

I don't think it's a slam dunk London has the best roster next year. Griffith and Broadhurst shouldn't be locks to be returned. What happens if some bad NHL team picks Horvat in the top 10 and he's in the NHL? They lose Harrington and Hughes as well. Maybe Hunter was able to hype up guys like Platzer, Elie, Jammes and Liberati to the selection committee as being future stars and that would make a lot more sense.

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05-20-2013, 03:40 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
With all due respect, those 'we need the best teams there' concept comes from the horses mouth. I asked Branch at the OHL Cup (hes the coach of the Whitby Minor Midgets, very approachable) and he mentioned that the committee cant assume what moves the teams will make, they need to look at what they have now. They can look at the depth charts and see whose coming in, what assets they have to trade, but they cant take a teams 'word for it' that they will trade for a top guy. You may not like it, but that was the rational.
It was reported by credible sources (TV crews etc) that Branch was not in the building for those games. Also, he did not present the Bobby Orr trophy to Ryan O'Connor.

I think perhaps my original point is getting lost in the back and forth. I understand the rationale, and I don't like it, that's the point. I don't even live in Ontario anymore, so it's not like I'm going to be benefiting from the BMC being around the corner now. I just thing it's wrong that they keep picking teams within a 50 mile radius for going on two decades. I suppose my bottom line is this:

This isn't a neutral site event, there is a competitive advantage to being awarded the tournament, from recruiting players to selling season tickets. If they can't find another alternative than going back to the same place every three bids, then their process is broken and they should figure out a new one.

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05-20-2013, 04:00 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
I think perhaps my original point is getting lost in the back and forth. I understand the rationale, and I don't like it, that's the point. I don't even live in Ontario anymore, so it's not like I'm going to be benefiting from the BMC being around the corner now. I just thing it's wrong that they keep picking teams within a 50 mile radius for going on two decades. I suppose my bottom line is this:

This isn't a neutral site event, there is a competitive advantage to being awarded the tournament, from recruiting players to selling season tickets. If they can't find another alternative than going back to the same place every three bids, then their process is broken and they should figure out a new one.
I was simply replying to your suggesting that there was a bias. Looking at the history of the bids, I can't see when the Colts could have won. They did go outside of that 50 mile radius in 2011, but that was also criticized.

The message is now simple, have a better roster. Its easy to throw it out there that they get advantages, but there is no mistaking the fact that Mark Hunter is easily the hardest working GM in the league.

Michael Houser was out there for anyone, but Mark did his work and found him. Why aren't other teams doing that? Why isn't that team heading to the U18's to scout for the Import draft? Kingston did for the first time in a while and saw some success, its easy, but some teams GM's/Head Scouts don't seem to have the willingness to do so, they don't want to make the personal sacrifices. You know im in the rinks, I see what GM's work and what ones don't.

If I'm a fan of a team, I ask my GM/Owner, why aren't you outworking him, why do you allow the Knights to have an advantage that's easily controllable.

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05-20-2013, 04:10 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
I was simply replying to your suggesting that there was a bias. Looking at the history of the bids, I can't see when the Colts could have won. They did go outside of that 50 mile radius in 2011, but that was also criticized.
Mississauga '11 is within a 50 mile radius of Kitchener '08, as are Guelph '02, and London '05/'14...that's how I came up with that measurement. Beyond that clarity I've sent you a private message and will leave it at that.

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05-20-2013, 04:12 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
I was simply replying to your suggesting that there was a bias. Looking at the history of the bids, I can't see when the Colts could have won. They did go outside of that 50 mile radius in 2011, but that was also criticized.

The message is now simple, have a better roster. Its easy to throw it out there that they get advantages, but there is no mistaking the fact that Mark Hunter is easily the hardest working GM in the league.

Michael Houser was out there for anyone, but Mark did his work and found him. Why aren't other teams doing that? Why isn't that team heading to the U18's to scout for the Import draft? Kingston did for the first time in a while and saw some success, its easy, but some teams GM's/Head Scouts don't seem to have the willingness to do so, they don't want to make the personal sacrifices. You know im in the rinks, I see what GM's work and what ones don't.

If I'm a fan of a team, I ask my GM/Owner, why aren't you outworking him, why do you allow the Knights to have an advantage that's easily controllable.

Do teams have the money to do this? How do we know Houser wasn't on the radar of other teams and Houser decided on London? It's easy to be the hardest working gm when you have the largest budget. If you ask me the talent in the OHL is dwindling year after year so I don't think it's a matter of working hard. It's a matter of marketing the league better to encourage players that the OHL is a good league.

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05-20-2013, 04:22 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Maybe favor is a wrong term but rationalize things that Branch does is a better word. I would throw in 2010 he "forgot" to bring the playoff MVP trophy for game 4 of Barrie-Windsor.
Well, he didn't forget anything, he doesn't bring the trophy's in the back of his car . He just took the hit for the guy who did. Its embarrassing and he admits as much.

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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Do you think he's honest an up front with you or does he just say it to placate you because according to some people who are part of organizations he isn't as open to talk about things.
100 percent. Im also not a fan, so he knows that when I talk to him, I dont have that emotional, tribal interest in a team. I have talked suspensions, teams, plays, anything, and hes always been very consistent with his answers. I may not agree, but respect that he doesn't move around.

Of course people who are part of organizations will be upset with him, hes the one who hands out suspensions and discipline. Id be surprised if they liked him lol. Most who don't have a 'horse in the race' find him to be a straight shooter. Ive also known him for upwards of 4 years, so there may be more of a trust factor there. You should come out to some Minor Midget games next year and talk to him yourself.

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I don't think it's a slam dunk London has the best roster next year. Griffith and Broadhurst shouldn't be locks to be returned. What happens if some bad NHL team picks Horvat in the top 10 and he's in the NHL? They lose Harrington and Hughes as well. Maybe Hunter was able to hype up guys like Platzer, Elie, Jammes and Liberati to the selection committee as being future stars and that would make a lot more sense.
Elie is rated as a late second early third. Hes a top 6 forward next year on most teams. Platzer a top 9 and Jammes still an unknown. The thing about London is, that without making any moves, guys like Elie, Platzer and such are at best in their top 9.

They still will have Chris Tierney as a third line centre, who would be the top centre for the Colts this year. Guys like the Ruperts will still be second or third line guys, the defense will remain strong despite the loss of Harrington, they will still have two first round NHL picks on the back end with Zadarov and Maatta, plus others who will fill roles. They had the best roster this year, and have the most returning players. Griffith and Broadhurst will hurt, but they have the guys internally who can fill those roles. As of now (assuming that Broadhurst and Griffith are gone) they only have 1 OA spot spoken for. The selection committee doesn't look at it, but with the picks that they have and the 95's-96's that they could move, they could be outright scary.

Add in all the depth that they have in Jr A with guys like Santino Centorame, John DiLorenzo, Owen McDonald in Jr B. They are very, very deep.

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05-20-2013, 04:32 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
They still will have Chris Tierney as a third line centre, who would be the top centre for the Colts this year.
Are you counting Zach Hall as a winger, or do you think Tierney is better?

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05-20-2013, 04:41 PM
  #613
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Are you counting Zach Hall as a winger, or do you think Tierney is better?
I think Tierney is better. 3rd line yet almost a point a game, takes all the important draws and is a 2nd round pick of the Sharks. Works harder then most players, plays two ways and impacts the game at both ends of the ice. One of the better faceoff guys in the league.


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05-20-2013, 05:18 PM
  #614
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I'm not sure any amount of reasoning will convince razor that people without an allegence to an OHL team ( not staff or fans in other words) think London's returning roster is " perceived" to be the best, from what Ive read. It's all what ifs to him and that's fine. Thats all they can do is speculate and ive never heard one source not related to a team claim they dont have the best returning talent, period. I'm positive if the roster went 60-8 there would be some reasoning. If they don't finish first in Reg season and POs it'll be I told ya so.
I have a bias as I see London play a lot and am a fan of the work ethic the organization has starting at the top and all the way down. I've seen it, albeit at arms length. Yes they have a cash adv ------ that they built themselves thru hard work, continually icing good to very very good teams.

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05-20-2013, 05:23 PM
  #615
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Delete double post


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05-20-2013, 05:25 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Knights4Cup View Post
Which teams are sellers next season and which players will London target off of those teams?
Tough to say. Every year there are a few surprises. Teams that step up unexpectedly and others that fall below expectations. As well teams in the east will be "hoping" a spot In The ohl finals means a memorial cup spot, so if there close they'll go for it I'd think
I will say Mark will make a list with a plan A, B,C and D and go from there.
At the deadline this year I stated ( and was called out on it ) that Mark may have won trade deadline again without making any major moves ( grabbed a 6th D) letting others spend future assets. The two before that he sold big and got great returns, the next bought on the cheap, thanks to a few teams inability to close deals leaving few if any other buyers.
Point is,
Have confidence hell make the right moves ( and I suspect a few big ones)


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05-20-2013, 05:25 PM
  #617
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Do teams have the money to do this? How do we know Houser wasn't on the radar of other teams and Houser decided on London? It's easy to be the hardest working gm when you have the largest budget. If you ask me the talent in the OHL is dwindling year after year so I don't think it's a matter of working hard. It's a matter of marketing the league better to encourage players that the OHL is a good league.
Its easy to work hard. Budget doesn't matter. To go back and forth to Jr.A rinks, Minor Midget Rinks costs between 6-8k a year, in other words Not a lot. I did if for three years, but not full time. I spent something along the lines of 2-3k and still outworked alot of teams top guys as well. It comes down to dedication. Are you willing to sacrifice dinner with the family? Are you willing to miss a dance recidle? Are you willing to make those sacrifices in order to make your team better. Some are, some arn't. If a team that has a $1 million operations budget (that's what most teams run at today) can't spare that, then its pretty sad statement, isn't it? In Slater Koekkoek's draft year, Notre Dame's coach told me 6 teams went to see him play. It cost me and my head scout a total of $700 to do so. We put our work in, others didnt.

I respect your opinion, but with all due respect, unless your on the road and see who works and who doesn't its not fair to say what impact it has on anything. You may have your opinion, but its not really based on anything.

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05-20-2013, 05:32 PM
  #618
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Hard work and smart decisions trump cash almost always, in every sport.
How do we know Mark spends more than others Razor?
I think seeing Mark take a spot on the bench also goes to show what he's willing to do to help out.

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05-20-2013, 05:41 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Hard work and smart decisions trump cash almost always, in every sport.
How do we know Mark spends more than others Razor?
I think seeing Mark take a spot on the bench also goes to show what he's willing to do to help out.
Because they have a much larger budget and play 34+ games a year in a 9000 seat arena which is almost sold out every game. I am sure 19 other OHL teams could have brought Zadorov over from Moscow for the import draft, right? When you make more money it enables you to spend more money and make a better effort. Do you believe if Mark Hunter just left London to become GM of Peterborough or North Bay he would have the same success he's had in London? I'm sure Mark would get the next Pat Kane to play in North Bay.

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05-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
I'm not sure any amount of reasoning will convince razor that people without an allegence to an OHL team ( not staff or fans in other words) think London's returning roster is " perceived" to be the best, from what Ive read. It's all what ifs to him and that's fine. Thats all they can do is speculate and ive never heard one source not related to a team claim they dont have the best returning talent, period. I'm positive if the roster went 60-8 there would be some reasoning. If they don't finish first in Reg season and POs it'll be I told ya so.
I have a bias as I see London play a lot and am a fan of the work ethic the organization has starting at the top and all the way down. I've seen it, albeit at arms length. Yes they have a cash adv ------ that they built themselves thru hard work, continually icing good to very very good teams.
You and other London fans spent 3-4 months trashing Saskatoon and how they weren't any good. That same Saskatoon team went out and dominated one of the best teams in Canada for 45-50 minutes. That's my point nobody knows who the best is you have to prove it on the ice. The Knights were the best in the OHL the past 2 years but haven't shown they are the best in the CHL. Next year they don't even have to show they are the best in the OHL they have already been awarded the championship to host.

Why shouldn't it be an I told you so situation? You did the same thing with Saskatoon this year.

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05-20-2013, 06:12 PM
  #621
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I'm a firm believer that in a tournament that is a sprint like the Memorial Cup..or any short formatted tourney for that matter...that you don't necessarily have to be the best team in the tournament to win it all..you just have to be the best team for a week. Kinda like not having to out run the bear.

Saskatoon could be that team this week.

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05-20-2013, 06:28 PM
  #622
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I have to agree with Rayzor.....the mem cup host I never remembered being picked because they were the best.Just that they would be competitive.

Branch talks out of both sides of his mouth.first he's for the small market teams to be competitive with the larger ones then he picks by who's projected to be best and disregards the smaller market like Barrie.Giving London 3 swipes at the mem cup letting them host is total BS and is in reality going to cost all teams in the bottom line.

If London won next year and were in the tourney no prob.but giving it to them to be in it for the 3rd time is ludicrious.What happened to Branch boosting smaller market teams or getting more exposure in the GTA??

The Blades show even though they were knocked out of the first round and made 13 player changes are still competitve beating Halifax and making for an exciting series and that is all you can ask for.

Barrie would have fit that bill IMO.

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05-20-2013, 06:34 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
You and other London fans spent 3-4 months trashing Saskatoon and how they weren't any good. That same Saskatoon team went out and dominated one of the best teams in Canada for 45-50 minutes. That's my point nobody knows who the best is you have to prove it on the ice. The Knights were the best in the OHL the past 2 years but haven't shown they are the best in the CHL. Next year they don't even have to show they are the best in the OHL they have already been awarded the championship to host.

Why shouldn't it be an I told you so situation? You did the same thing with Saskatoon this year.
I think you're incorrect in ur assumptions of me and my posts. Read all my posts and I don't think you can make these blanket statements. I get it, u lump all fans of a team together. I said it was a sprint, anything can happen, I don't buy I to the media hype. Go back and check if ya got time. But I'm sure you'll find one post outta 100 and quote 1 line from it outta context to try and prove your point. No worries

I even Defended them as a host saying aftr they were picked they meet league expectations by doing All they could in trying to grab talent, mortgaging the future and making a run.


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05-20-2013, 06:39 PM
  #624
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Yes razor I think Mark would be successful anywhere.
Again ill ask you, how much more cash does Mark spend than others?
Lots of teams have imports.
Zadarov I believe was a plan B, something Rychel didn't think of and it showed this year with his import draft.
Marks made mistakes, isn't perfect but be learns from them and I'd take his track record over everyone else's. just MO.
How would you like the league to operate? Everyone has a budgetary limit and must spend it exactly? Teams that make cash should spend less, and cheapo owners should spend more? They are privately owned for the most part. The $ omers spend is up to them.

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05-20-2013, 06:45 PM
  #625
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"If London won next year and were in the tourney no prob.but giving it to them to be in it for the 3rd time is ludicrious.What happened to Branch boosting smaller market teams or getting more exposure in the GTA??"

Aren't you one who said Windsor got screwed in not hosting in a year where could go 3 straight and now argue a against it.? Interesting your view changed.
I'm done. London got it. Going to be haters. No worries.

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