HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Alain Vigneault - The Watch Begins.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-20-2013, 07:21 PM
  #976
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,905
vCash: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
And yeah, I know, Garrison's the darling of the "advanced" stats crowd. Too bad those don't tend to correlate with wins.
in the most literal sense, they correlate with wins better than anything you know

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:24 PM
  #977
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
The Gillis love-fest going on in this thread is pretty incredible.

Have you all forgotten that we were just swept by the 6th seed, a year removed from being beaten in 5 by the 8th seed? All while:

-we had a very good goaltender in a baseball cap relegated to patting folks on the back and opening and closing gates
-we had a $4.25M guy sitting in the press box
-obvious needs were not addressed (grit, toughess, size, scoring, you name it)
-Cody Hodgson broke out in Buffalo, Zack Kassian mostly frustrated Vancouver

This team is a mess, and it's a mess that's been created out of management errors.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:25 PM
  #978
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,905
vCash: 695
gillis owns. deal with it

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:27 PM
  #979
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Newsflash - Jason Garrison is not exactly Chris Pronger. You think he's tough to play against? Doesn't hit anyone and plays with zero emotion.

And yeah, I know, Garrison's the darling of the "advanced" stats crowd. Too bad those don't tend to correlate with wins. How many times has Garrison been out of the 1st round?
Oh, the grounds of the argument shift again. How surprising. And a Chris Pronger comparison -- very relevant.

Mario Lemieux missed the playoffs in 5 of his first 6 seasons in the NHL. I bet you would have been leading the charge to declare him not tough enough to play against, too. Not like Sami Salo

Proto is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #980
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Newsflash - Jason Garrison is not exactly Chris Pronger. You think he's tough to play against? Doesn't hit anyone and plays with zero emotion.

And yeah, I know, Garrison's the darling of the "advanced" stats crowd. Too bad those don't tend to correlate with wins. How many times has Garrison been out of the 1st round?
Hey, how about this. Why don't you give a few examples of why you don't think Jason Garrison is a good defenseman, or isn't worth his contract, and why he contributed to the Canucks losing in round 1.

I've yet to see you back up this opinion, as you usually shift into listing Gillis's failures. I'm curious to see you actually follow through on one of these bad-faith arguments you continually start, rather than starting a new one each time. So let's hear it.

Proto is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #981
14s incisor
Registered User
 
14s incisor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
The Gillis love-fest going on in this thread is pretty incredible.

Have you all forgotten that we were just swept by the 6th seed, a year removed from being beaten in 5 by the 8th seed? All while:

-we had a very good goaltender in a baseball cap relegated to patting folks on the back and opening and closing gates
-we had a $4.25M guy sitting in the press box
-obvious needs were not addressed (grit, toughess, size, scoring, you name it)
-Cody Hodgson broke out in Buffalo, Zack Kassian mostly frustrated Vancouver

This team is a mess, and it's a mess that's been created out of management errors.
Not sure how this Garrison vs. Salo discussion has anything to do with Gillis.

I haven't been happy with most of Gillis's moves in the last two years, but I'm quite happy with Garrison, and anybody who isn't clearly wasn't paying close attention while watching the games.

14s incisor is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:31 PM
  #982
Nuckles
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ( ͡ ᴥ͡)
 
Nuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In front of computer
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,440
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
The Gillis love-fest going on in this thread is pretty incredible.

Have you all forgotten that we were just swept by the 6th seed, a year removed from being beaten in 5 by the 8th seed? All while:

-we had a very good goaltender in a baseball cap relegated to patting folks on the back and opening and closing gates
-we had a $4.25M guy sitting in the press box
-obvious needs were not addressed (grit, toughess, size, scoring, you name it)
-Cody Hodgson broke out in Buffalo, Zack Kassian mostly frustrated Vancouver

This team is a mess, and it's a mess that's been created out of management errors.
1. How would have Scrivens and a 2nd round pick helped us this season?
2. Maybe no teams wanted Ballard, have you thought about that? And it's not like the coaching staff has helped his confidence at all in his time here.
3. Gillis tried to acquire Torres, but San Jose offered a higher 3rd round pick. He tried to help the scoring by acquiring Roy at a very good price.
4. Hodgson wasn't exactly amazing this season. Buffalo fans constantly complained about his very poor defensive play and he finished the season with 6 points in 16 games. Kassian also played well in the top 6 at times, but AV refused to keep him there (like in the playoffs).

You complain about the "love-fest", but you blindly hate everything Gillis has done.

__________________

Richer's Ghost made my avatar
Nuckles is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:31 PM
  #983
SweedishKeepers
Registered User
 
SweedishKeepers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Newsflash - Jason Garrison is not exactly Chris Pronger. You think he's tough to play against? Doesn't hit anyone and plays with zero emotion.

And yeah, I know, Garrison's the darling of the "advanced" stats crowd. Too bad those don't tend to correlate with wins. How many times has Garrison been out of the 1st round?
Considering he's played with Florida for most of his career what would you expect. I'm pretty sure if we had Subban or even Weber we still would have lost in the first round.

SweedishKeepers is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:32 PM
  #984
yoss
Registered User
 
yoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,836
vCash: 500
They should go after Tippett if there is any possibility of that, and tell him to bring Doan along with him for a year or two.

What do people think the likelihood is that AV stays? I honestly have no idea what is going on. Questions, so many questions. Can't wait to see what this team looks like by the start of next season. Anything's liable to happen between now and then.

yoss is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:35 PM
  #985
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,169
vCash: 5158
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
The Gillis love-fest going on in this thread is pretty incredible.

Have you all forgotten that we were just swept by the 6th seed, a year removed from being beaten in 5 by the 8th seed? All while:

-we had a very good goaltender in a baseball cap relegated to patting folks on the back and opening and closing gates
-we had a $4.25M guy sitting in the press box
-obvious needs were not addressed (grit, toughess, size, scoring, you name it)
-Cody Hodgson broke out in Buffalo, Zack Kassian mostly frustrated Vancouver

This team is a mess, and it's a mess that's been created out of management errors.
- Gillis attempted to move Luongo. Do you fancy Scrivens + 2nds or MacArthur + Colbourne + Scrivens + 2nd as having that big a difference? (I might have done the second but being a Dreger rumor who knows if it's even accurate.)
- Corrado played surprisingly well and Gillis cannot be blamed because AV thinks Ballard slept with his Rome wife.
- Explain how do get grid, scoring, size and everything needed all in one deadline.
- I am certain Vanek being a near Rocket contender had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, Kassian was tossed on the fourth line every time he so much as hiccuped the wrong way.

But sure, let's blame Gillis. Nonis would have made us Pittsburgh in a month.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:39 PM
  #986
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle1 View Post
I would hope that a Billionaire business man and his highly paid GM can deal with 2 separate yet equally important decisions at the same time.
'Fraid not. Condo construction has also come to a screeching halt until this AHL thing is resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoss View Post
What do people think the likelihood is that AV stays? I honestly have no idea what is going on.
I'm 60/40 that he's gone. It will be interesting to hear the explanations if the "40" happens.

 
Old
05-20-2013, 07:42 PM
  #987
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,586
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
- Gillis attempted to move Luongo. Do you fancy Scrivens + 2nds or MacArthur + Colbourne + Scrivens + 2nd as having that big a difference? (I might have done the second but being a Dreger rumor who knows if it's even accurate.)
- Corrado played surprisingly well and Gillis cannot be blamed because AV thinks Ballard slept with his Rome wife.
- Explain how do get grid, scoring, size and everything needed all in one deadline.
- I am certain Vanek being a near Rocket contender had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, Kassian was tossed on the fourth line every time he so much as hiccuped the wrong way.

But sure, let's blame Gillis. Nonis would have made us Pittsburgh in a month.
1) Gillis should be fired if those are the packages he would do.

2) Gillis was asleep at the switch when he allowed AV to burn a year off Corrado's ELC. Absolutely stupid decision.

3) You don't get that all in one deadline, you get that in the off-season. When I complained about our team in the off-season everyone said "well there's lots of time before the deadline, we'll do something at the deadline." We didn't. Now it's "well you can't do it all at the deadline, let's wait until the draft" and when nothing happens it'll be "well there's free agency, it's a long summer." And when nothing happens it'll be back to "well there's lots of time until the deadline" again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

4) Because Kassian hasn't shown a whole lot while the guy we gave away had shown to be a 20 goal calibre scorer before we even pulled the trigger? It's like the reverse Stojanov deal.

__________________
May 17, 2014: The day nightlife changes in Vancouver...ask me how.
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 07:52 PM
  #988
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,905
vCash: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I'm 60/40 that he's gone. It will be interesting to hear the explanations if the "40" happens.
i think it writes itself - still signed, key players werent 100% (bieksa, kesler), malhotras departure left a hole

the reactions, on the other hand, will be fantastic. the good mojo from the leafs loss has powered me to this point and i think these boards would keep me going for at least another week if av is retained

macarthur, colborne and a 2nd would be a pretty decent luongo return

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:08 PM
  #989
luongo321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,940
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
i think it writes itself - still signed, key players werent 100% (bieksa, kesler), malhotras departure left a hole

the reactions, on the other hand, will be fantastic. the good mojo from the leafs loss has powered me to this point and i think these boards would keep me going for at least another week if av is retained

macarthur, colborne and a 2nd would be a pretty decent luongo return
Even when Bieksa is healthy he's pretty meh. Kesler was fine even if he hadn't played that many games this season. Him and Lu were the only ones that gave a damn during the postseason and he managed to go beast mode in game 2 so i don't know how you can really factor in Kesler for this.

AV will totally be gone. I will never post on this website again if he stays. That is how confident I am that he will be fired.

AV is MG's last scapegoat. 2 first round exits in a row. If he were to keep him and they suck again then he knows that his job is on the line. He needs to bring in a new coach to bring some life to this team and show that he isn't completely incompetent. Did you see AV during the postgame for game 4? He totally knows he's done. A defeated man.

luongo321 is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:10 PM
  #990
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Hey, how about this. Why don't you give a few examples of why you don't think Jason Garrison is a good defenseman, or isn't worth his contract, and why he contributed to the Canucks losing in round 1.

I've yet to see you back up this opinion, as you usually shift into listing Gillis's failures. I'm curious to see you actually follow through on one of these bad-faith arguments you continually start, rather than starting a new one each time. So let's hear it.
I didn't like the signing when it happened because you're giving 6 years, an NTC, and a lot of money to a guy who has proven relatively nothing. He had a breakout season, basically out of nowhere, and was set to cash in - it's the very definition of buying high.

On a good team, I'd say Garrison's about a 4th defenceman. Not a good skater, not a good passer, doesn't hit, doesn't motivate. He wasn't on the PP because he couldn't do anything besides shoot - the game's just too fast for him.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:16 PM
  #991
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
1. How would have Scrivens and a 2nd round pick helped us this season?
2. Maybe no teams wanted Ballard, have you thought about that? And it's not like the coaching staff has helped his confidence at all in his time here.
3. Gillis tried to acquire Torres, but San Jose offered a higher 3rd round pick. He tried to help the scoring by acquiring Roy at a very good price.
4. Hodgson wasn't exactly amazing this season. Buffalo fans constantly complained about his very poor defensive play and he finished the season with 6 points in 16 games. Kassian also played well in the top 6 at times, but AV refused to keep him there (like in the playoffs).

You complain about the "love-fest", but you blindly hate everything Gillis has done.
1 - you're completely missing the point. It should never, ever have even got to the "groveling to Toronto" stage. Gillis completely misread the market and inexplicably thought Luongo's value would rise as our backup. Unsurprisingly, it did not, and there were no interested buyers. The error isn't passing on Scrivens, the error is in not trading Schneider in 2009, 2010, 2011, or 2012, and/or not trading Luongo in 2012. The problem festered, festered, and festered, and we're now left with zero leverage at all. Nice work, Mike.

3 - "trying" isn't accomplishing anything.

4 - deny all you want, one of the players established themselves as a bona-fide NHL top-6 player, one of the players established themselves as a borderline NHL player.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:17 PM
  #992
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,905
vCash: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
On a good team, I'd say Garrison's about a 4th defenceman.
ya but the things you say are always wrong

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:20 PM
  #993
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 9,251
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoss View Post
They should go after Tippett if there is any possibility of that, and tell him to bring Doan along with him for a year or two.

What do people think the likelihood is that AV stays? I honestly have no idea what is going on. Questions, so many questions. Can't wait to see what this team looks like by the start of next season. Anything's liable to happen between now and then.
From the way it took so long for him to finally get an extension last offseason, and the various hints that he was under the gun this year, the entertainment value of the product dropping, 2 consecutive 1st-round exits and a record of 1-10 in our last 11 games or something stupid, an owner who passionately wants to win and likely won't be happy with not getting more playoff revenue... I just don't see it. No matter what you think the issue with the team might be.

vanuck is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:21 PM
  #994
vanuck
Griffiths Way Goons
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 9,251
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
ya but the things you say are always wrong

vanuck is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:23 PM
  #995
Vancouver_2010
Go Canucks & Oilers
 
Vancouver_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
The Gillis love-fest going on in this thread is pretty incredible.

Have you all forgotten that we were just swept by the 6th seed, a year removed from being beaten in 5 by the 8th seed? All while:

-we had a very good goaltender in a baseball cap relegated to patting folks on the back and opening and closing gates
-we had a $4.25M guy sitting in the press box
-obvious needs were not addressed (grit, toughess, size, scoring, you name it)
-Cody Hodgson broke out in Buffalo, Zack Kassian mostly frustrated Vancouver

This team is a mess, and it's a mess that's been created out of management errors.
Gillis has been fine so far, his mistakes is to retain AV and not enough active in the trade deadline. I mean Roy is a good player, but one trade is not nearly enough to make us compete in the playoffs.

Anyways, back to topic. As much as I dislike the Sedins, I am actually excited that AV firing is immient and we can see how the twins played under a competent coach. Not a great coach, not even a good coach, but a competent one.


Last edited by Vancouver_2010: 05-20-2013 at 08:30 PM.
Vancouver_2010 is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:38 PM
  #996
Fat Tony
Registered User
 
Fat Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
How ? Fired is fired as far as I know. Pay him 3 million to coach the wolves ?
Doesn't matter what he does for the team. He'll still be paid by the Canucks and they can refuse other teams access to him.

Fat Tony is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:41 PM
  #997
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
'Fraid not. Condo construction has also come to a screeching halt until this AHL thing is resolved.



I'm 60/40 that he's gone. It will be interesting to hear the explanations if the "40" happens.
I'm 80/20 that he is gone.

The 80 is obvious.

The 20 being that Gillis would not see a suitable replacement at this point.

ddawg1950 is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:44 PM
  #998
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
 
CpatainCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Gillis has been fine so far, his mistakes is to retain AV and not enough active in the trade deadline. I mean Roy is a good player, but one trade is not nearly enough to make us compete in the playoffs.

Anyways, back to topic. As much as I dislike the Sedins, I am actually excited that AV firing is immient and we can see how the twins played under a competent coach. Not a great coach, not even a good coach, but a competent one.
Somehow the Sedins managed to each win an Art Ross Trophy and the canucks 2 presidents trophies under this "incompetent" coach.

Somehow AV has managed to get himself 3 Jack Adams nominations and one win despite being an incompetent coach.


I agree that it is time for AV to go, but stop with this revisionist nonsense.

CpatainCanuck is offline  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:50 PM
  #999
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,905
vCash: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Somehow the Sedins managed to each win an Art Ross Trophy and the canucks 2 presidents trophies under this "incompetent" coach.

Somehow AV has managed to get himself 3 Jack Adams nominations and one win despite being an incompetent coach.


I agree that it is time for AV to go, but stop with this revisionist nonsense.
you're talking to the dude who is proud about having the opinion "i didnt want him in 2006"

Verviticus is online now  
Old
05-20-2013, 08:57 PM
  #1000
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,161
vCash: 500
Can't blame him really, his favourite team has been feeding off the bottom for so long, that he doesn't really understand what competent looks like.

ddawg1950 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.