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Bernier trade in offseason?

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05-20-2013, 07:30 PM
  #301
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I would be shocked if Dean gets more than just a late to mid 1st and a B/C level prospect.

I would rather the Kings get two seconds, and a third. Give the scouting department more swings in decent rounds.
I'm inclined towards this type of return as well. The Kings likely won't be looking to add much in salaries as their focus will be on re-signing their soon to be RFAs.

With the Flames in possession of three first round selections, I think they could find a potential trading partner there. The Flames have their pick, which is the 6th pick. they have the Blues' first from the Bouwmeester trade, which looks to be the 18th pick, and they have the Penguins' first from the Iginla trade, which will be in the bottom four of the first round.

The Flames have no second round picks in 2013 though, as they dealt their pick to Montreal to reacquire Michael Cammalleri.

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05-20-2013, 07:31 PM
  #302
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So you guys are suggesting Robyn Reghyr for Jonathan Bernier basically?

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05-20-2013, 07:34 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
So you guys are suggesting Robyn Reghyr for Jonathan Bernier basically?
good catch, i guess they are, and it is not enough, jb will bring us more, or we should keep him and match his salary demands for 2 more years,

we know dl wants to make jb happy and ship him out so he can be a starter, but the return has to be amicable, it is a business afterall,

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05-20-2013, 07:39 PM
  #304
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Market dictates what you get, Goalies have never been a good market.

Teams are just not wiling to give up a whole lot too get them(Unless you are dealing someone like Quick).

You always pay a premium at the deadline. So using the Regehr deal is not a good measure.

Everyone wants a Vet big bruising D man at the deadline...You pay for that.

Not everyone is looking for Johnny B.

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05-20-2013, 08:14 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
So you guys are suggesting Robyn Reghyr for Jonathan Bernier basically?
Those are late 2nd round picks that were moved at the deadline. I'm thinking late 1st and another pick/prospect is closer to what the return will be.

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05-20-2013, 08:14 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Jonteeh View Post
Trade Bernier for Nino and a additional pick! Nino as been fantastic for Swiss this WC.
Yes please.

Considering our lack of LW depth, this is the one deal I would like. Although we might be adding a pick, not the Isles.

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05-20-2013, 09:19 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Those are late 2nd round picks that were moved at the deadline. I'm thinking late 1st and another pick/prospect is closer to what the return will be.
Still seems awfully low for someone we drafted at around ...12 overall?

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05-20-2013, 09:27 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
Still seems awfully low for someone we drafted at around ...12 overall?
Can't really hang the value of Bernier based on where he was selected in the 2006 draft.

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05-20-2013, 09:36 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Can't really hang the value of Bernier based on where he was selected in the 2006 draft.
That's true, you can't base Johnny B's value on where he was drafted.

If that were true we should have been able to swap Hickey for a first....

I would rather Lombardi get Two seconds, or a Second+Third.

Like to give the Draft guys more swings in the higher rounds.

Just one swing in the late first round doesn't seem all that great.


The Kings scouts have been dynamite in the Second. I would be happy with a deal like Lindback.

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05-20-2013, 10:23 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Market dictates what you get, Goalies have never been a good market.

Teams are just not wiling to give up a whole lot too get them(Unless you are dealing someone like Quick).

You always pay a premium at the deadline. So using the Regehr deal is not a good measure.

Everyone wants a Vet big bruising D man at the deadline...You pay for that.

Not everyone is looking for Johnny B.
But this doesn't take into account the value of having the best goalie tandem in the NHL. Hanging on to JB ensures that should JQ have any further back issues that we will remain very highly competitive and wins are what get you to the playoffs. We are a team built from the net out so having Jb and Jq only helps us remain competitive in that regard.

Having JB back on the team would cost at most $3.134.088 or we can let him go via QO and get a 1st and 3rd pick in 14. If we have to keep him at the $3.134.088 amount we have yet another year of him as our back up but also another year of him developing even greater value.

So if his return is a mere couple of second rd picks then we will keep him as he is more valuable to us as a player than at that kind of return. This thread is just chalk full of how we can afford him and still ice a great team so it wouldn't be the death of us to do so.

But like I have said before I believe that we have a deal in principle to move him and that it has been mostly in place since the GM meetings. If it falls apart there will be a team that will offer us a better return then a mid 1st and a b prospect or I believe that DL will hang on to JB for one more season as it is better for us to do so.


As to basing JB's value on where he was drafted well yes and no really. We drafted him so highly because he was called by everyone from Patrick Roy to Ron Hextall the best goalie to come along in over a decade and in fact was compared by more than one pundit to Patty Roy himself.

Where he was picked up isn't as important as the fact that his value has rocketed since we drafted him. We have spent a fortune in cash and time developing him and he has become everything we had hoped he would.

JB's problem is that JQ came along and established himself as one of if not the best goalie in the game while he (JB) was busy developing.

JB will get the same return that Schneider was going to get had he been dealt last off season.

So where he was drafted doesn't matter really but the fact that his value has only increased significantly since then does. DL won't likely move him for less then he has into him when you consider how solid JB has become.

At least that is what it seems like to me. No doubt we will see JB move this offseason and we will all one way or the other be surprised when he does.

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05-21-2013, 09:23 AM
  #311
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I think JB will be moved for a young, up and coming #2 dman. I think Regehr and Scuderi will be allowed to walk. That leaves Doughty, Greene, Mitchell, Martinez, Voynov, Ellerby and Muzzin. That leaves room for a #2 or #3 dman, maybe somebody like Victor Hedman? Ellerby is expendable and Martinez and Sutter don't appear to click very well so it wouldn't surprise me to see him moved either although I'm all for holding onto him. The Kings have been burned too many times by letting young D go too early and Martinez clearly is an NHL caliber dman and hopefully he's still a King when it all comes together for him.

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05-21-2013, 10:38 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
That's true, you can't base Johnny B's value on where he was drafted.

If that were true we should have been able to swap Hickey for a first....

I would rather Lombardi get Two seconds, or a Second+Third.

Like to give the Draft guys more swings in the higher rounds.

Just one swing in the late first round doesn't seem all that great.


The Kings scouts have been dynamite in the Second. I would be happy with a deal like Lindback.
The Kings don't have their first this year, it's off to Columbus. We have our first swing in the second round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I think JB will be moved for a young, up and coming #2 dman. I think Regehr and Scuderi will be allowed to walk. That leaves Doughty, Greene, Mitchell, Martinez, Voynov, Ellerby and Muzzin. That leaves room for a #2 or #3 dman, maybe somebody like Victor Hedman? Ellerby is expendable and Martinez and Sutter don't appear to click very well so it wouldn't surprise me to see him moved either although I'm all for holding onto him. The Kings have been burned too many times by letting young D go too early and Martinez clearly is an NHL caliber dman and hopefully he's still a King when it all comes together for him.
Tampa Bay has Lindback and just dealt for Bishop, they won't be trading for Bernier, and defeinately not giving up Hedman for him.

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05-21-2013, 11:52 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
So where he was drafted doesn't matter really but the fact that his value has only increased significantly since then does. DL won't likely move him for less then he has into him when you consider how solid JB has become.

bingo. a lot of people were JB naysayers last year but his numbers this season show his raw potential. i know the cap is extremely tight next year but i would be extremely happy if DL figured out a way to keep him on for another season....if hes moved for less than a 1st +, id be shocked

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05-21-2013, 01:18 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I think JB will be moved for a young, up and coming #2 dman. I think Regehr and Scuderi will be allowed to walk. That leaves Doughty, Greene, Mitchell, Martinez, Voynov, Ellerby and Muzzin. That leaves room for a #2 or #3 dman, maybe somebody like Victor Hedman? Ellerby is expendable and Martinez and Sutter don't appear to click very well so it wouldn't surprise me to see him moved either although I'm all for holding onto him. The Kings have been burned too many times by letting young D go too early and Martinez clearly is an NHL caliber dman and hopefully he's still a King when it all comes together for him.
if i were the ducks, i'd be praying for AMart becoming available, he is just what they need,

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05-21-2013, 05:16 PM
  #315
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The Kings already have ten picks in this years draft. How many "swings" do you guys want? Lol! I hope LA keeps Bernier but if they have to move him a mid to late first and a 3rd would be ok I guess. Lets LA draft Hartman, Mantha or Rychel and another 3rd to help prospect depth. I actually think LA moves some picks this draft to obtain more in 2014. They will be handy at next years trade deadline

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05-21-2013, 05:57 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
The Kings already have ten picks in this years draft. How many "swings" do you guys want? Lol! I hope LA keeps Bernier but if they have to move him a mid to late first and a 3rd would be ok I guess. Lets LA draft Hartman, Mantha or Rychel and another 3rd to help prospect depth. I actually think LA moves some picks this draft to obtain more in 2014. They will be handy at next years trade deadline
Often it's not how many swings you get, but when you swing. We don't pick until the 2nd round. Picking in the later rounds is almost like swinging at the pinata after someone else broke it open.

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05-21-2013, 07:19 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Often it's not how many swings you get, but when you swing. We don't pick until the 2nd round. Picking in the later rounds is almost like swinging at the pinata after someone else broke it open.
Well sorry to beat a dead horse but under Lombardi LA seems to do better swinging at that opened piñata lol! I just think with the added prospects moving to Manchester that maybe LA moves a few picks in 2013 to 2014. This draft is deep but the added picks next year may factor in a next yrs trade deadline. Recent drafts show that there is value in late picks too

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05-21-2013, 07:59 PM
  #318
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Well sorry to beat a dead horse but under Lombardi LA seems to do better swinging at that opened piñata lol! I just think with the added prospects moving to Manchester that maybe LA moves a few picks in 2013 to 2014. This draft is deep but the added picks next year may factor in a next yrs trade deadline. Recent drafts show that there is value in late picks too
Better than most, but we still do better in the earlier rounds than in the latter rounds.

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05-21-2013, 08:46 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
The Kings already have ten picks in this years draft. How many "swings" do you guys want? Lol! I hope LA keeps Bernier but if they have to move him a mid to late first and a 3rd would be ok I guess. Lets LA draft Hartman, Mantha or Rychel and another 3rd to help prospect depth. I actually think LA moves some picks this draft to obtain more in 2014. They will be handy at next years trade deadline
it is ten picks, but having that many open the possibility for dean to trade up. it doesn't mean he will use all ten picks on LA picks. he may find a GM perhaps in the back half of Rd 1 willing to trade out for say 2 - 2nd's, this year's and next year's.

current picks
2
3
4 x 2
5
6
7 x 2
We also have a cond. 3rd/4th round pick. Odds are it is a fourth.

the Devils and the Patriots (NFL) are two prime examples that have used this philosophy for years with success. i see it as a sign of success, because it shows the development of talent in abundance. only there aren't enough roster spots for everyone, so the GM ends up being able to trade them out for future picks that he can develop for the future needs.


Last edited by Whiskeypete: 05-21-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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05-22-2013, 02:45 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
it is ten picks, but having that many open the possibility for dean to trade up. it doesn't mean he will use all ten picks on LA picks. he may find a GM perhaps in the back half of Rd 1 willing to trade out for say 2 - 2nd's, this year's and next year's.

current picks
2
3
4 x 2
5
6
7 x 2
We also have a cond. 3rd/4th round pick. Odds are it is a fourth.

the Devils and the Patriots (NFL) are two prime examples that have used this philosophy for years with success. i see it as a sign of success, because it shows the development of talent in abundance. only there aren't enough roster spots for everyone, so the GM ends up being able to trade them out for future picks that he can develop for the future needs.
I believe next year's 2nd shuffled off to Buffalo in the Regehr deal.

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05-26-2013, 01:40 PM
  #321
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I was thinking I would love Niño, then I realized we have enough trouble getting Toffoli into the lineup.

My target is Eriksson

Top line = Eriksson, Kopitar, Toffoli. - two defensive rocks letting young pup make mistakes
2nd line = Brown, Richards, Carter - legit winger that goes to net and makes room
3rd line = Cliffy, Stoll, Williams
4th line = take your pick. Lots of choices

Defense

Doughty,
Muzzin, Mitchell/Regehr/Scuderi - if Mitchell looks doubtful, re-sign RR or RS
Greene, Martinez
Ellerby

Quick
TBD

Now before I get my head bitten off here's my thinking for putting Voynov in an Eriksson package. Voynov is going to command huge dollars at the wrong time. Unless he signs a cap friendly bridge contract 3 mil or less for 2 years until the cap grows we will be pushed up against the threshold.

Eriksson is signed 3 more years, is another large bodied, defensively gifted, 25 to 30 goal scoring winger who allows us to place our young sniper on the top line in a position to succeed by basically being there to create offense with his nasty shot and IQ. AK and LE are up among the elite two way players in the game and will help cover mistakes.

It puts a skilled wrecking ball on the Philly line with Brown and Richie taking a little pressure off each other to deliver the boom, and Brown is good in corners and around the net.

Williams adds offense to the third line and still provides the good forecheck that Lewis excels at. Just more skill on that line.

Why is this in the Bernier thread?

Bernier can be packaged for a shutdown or twoway defenseman that can eventually pair with Doughty. They are easier to obtain then a top line forward and gives us more options. As much as I hate Muzzins defense he will get better and he is a cannon on the PP. put him with Mitchell and let him go. Yes we would probably lose a few prospects but we have lots of cheap young guys that are ready to start taking jobs.

I like the Eriksson fit as he is everything we want on that top line. It stabilizes the forward corps for years and will help us retain Brown as Louis has a bargain contract. We have proven all year we need size to help Quick out and clear away secondary rebounds so what we will lack in Voynovs offense should be made up with by bringing in another big body Dman.

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05-26-2013, 01:48 PM
  #322
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I can see a possible deal based on Bernier to Edmonton for Ladislav Smid. Smid could help replace the loss of Scuderi/Regehr and is signed for four more years at $3.5M. At age 27 he fits in with the young core LA has but still brings veteran experience. Maybe Bernier and Nolan for Smid and EDM 2nd rd pick?

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05-26-2013, 02:07 PM
  #323
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The Stars aren't going to give up Eriksson for Bernier, especially when they have Kari Lehtonen and are grooming Jack Campbell for the future. Makes zero sense for them to make such a move.

Smid makes sense for the Kings but not the Oilers. They're a team that needs to strengthen their blueline, and removing Smid from it (who they just re-signed) doesn't help them one bit.

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05-26-2013, 03:48 PM
  #324
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Though I think it might be a bit of smoke I hear that we are very pleased with Forbort and are going to try and bring him up as soon as possible. He might get a few call ups this next season according to some.

That goes directly against what I have seen (Forbort is good but a full AHL season should happen before anyone thinks about giving him a call up. He needs work) but if what I am hearing is right I would try and consider Forbort into the conversation when considering our D for the 14/15 season.

I believe Gravel will come in and blow Forborts doors off (like he did in every game I watched the two play against each other for the past couple of seasons) but we will see.

As for JB I still think we will move him before anything comes close to worry.

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05-26-2013, 04:30 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Stars aren't going to give up Eriksson for Bernier, especially when they have Kari Lehtonen and are grooming Jack Campbell for the future. Makes zero sense for them to make such a move.

Smid makes sense for the Kings but not the Oilers. They're a team that needs to strengthen their blueline, and removing Smid from it (who they just re-signed) doesn't help them one bit.
I never said they would. I said to give up Voynov for Eriksson and that's why I thought everyone would crap on it because of the love for Voynov including my own.

I said deal Bernier for a two way or defensive Dman. Smid makes sense. Of course we would have to add a prospect in each deal.

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