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PK Subban a finalist for the Norris

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Old
05-21-2013, 02:06 AM
  #76
Mr. Hab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Cmon, I'm sure subconsciously race plays a role in many peoples view point whether they want to or believe they do, but to call the NHL the KKK league is a stretch.

There are a few reason why PK is hated.
1. He's a Hab (Biggest Reason)
2. Young guy with swag
3. Seems cocky for a young guy
4. Agitates other teams top players (bit of a troll)
5. Coaches/management even seemed to suggest PK had to mature and develop as a person (crock of ****). If management of this young man feels this way, of course it will influence the sheep
6. The media has bought into it after cherry-like rants (management did nothing to minimize the impact imo)
7. He's black ( the least influential part), but it would take complete ignorance to pretend racism isn't alive and well, but I don't agree that it is anywhere near the top of the list of why PK is a polarizing figure.
I went too far with KKK comments...just an emotional comment.
(there's obvious racism still going on...it'll be with us as long as the human race continues! imo, but I pushed it a bit when I wrote the NHL is kkk... I am against the NHL for fining GM Wilson a $100 000...ridiculous...friggin' nazi regime...ok I'm going too far again?!!).

I'm a huuuuge PK Subban fan and when I saw him on The Hour show with George Strombolopoulos interviewing PK...I felt that PK was very cocky and arrogant and I'm a huge PK fan!! (PK was/is loving life and being cocky during the interview or just having cocky fun with George!! but I was thinking...''people are obviously going to hate him more because of his very confident attitude...his brother came on the show as well and seemed very shy and humble...). Anyways...cocky or not...I'm a huge Subban fan...love the way he plays (our D-corps is nothing without him).

I like your above list, but...#7 imo could easily be top 3 for reasons why the NHL doesn't like him. Or, some say he's too NBA or too NFL for the NHL.
Lots of NHLers just want him to be quiet (not loud like some NBA players or NFLers)...but that's not PK's style.
Anyways...I think he's one of the best dmen to play the game (in the history of the NHL), and he's a Hab (so lucky we have him wearing the CH!). So, I might be a bit hard-headed when defending Subban!

Go Subban Go!!


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 05-21-2013 at 02:12 AM.
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05-21-2013, 04:10 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I went too far with KKK comments...just an emotional comment.
(there's obvious racism still going on...it'll be with us as long as the human race continues! imo, but I pushed it a bit when I wrote the NHL is kkk... I am against the NHL for fining GM Wilson a $100 000...ridiculous...friggin' nazi regime...ok I'm going too far again?!!).

I'm a huuuuge PK Subban fan and when I saw him on The Hour show with George Strombolopoulos interviewing PK...I felt that PK was very cocky and arrogant and I'm a huge PK fan!! (PK was/is loving life and being cocky during the interview or just having cocky fun with George!! but I was thinking...''people are obviously going to hate him more because of his very confident attitude...his brother came on the show as well and seemed very shy and humble...). Anyways...cocky or not...I'm a huge Subban fan...love the way he plays (our D-corps is nothing without him).

I like your above list, but...#7 imo could easily be top 3 for reasons why the NHL doesn't like him. Or, some say he's too NBA or too NFL for the NHL.
Lots of NHLers just want him to be quiet (not loud like some NBA players or NFLers)...but that's not PK's style.
Anyways...I think he's one of the best dmen to play the game (in the history of the NHL), and he's a Hab (so lucky we have him wearing the CH!). So, I might be a bit hard-headed when defending Subban!

Go Subban Go!!
I don't know how people can think race plays an issue in deciding whether PK gets the Norris or not or in deciding whether someone likes the guy or not. It's 2013...we're past that ****, multicultural is a part of todays world and todays/future generations. Everyone has different coloured friends, its really a non-issue and it doesn't matter in the NHL either...whoever says black people behave more like NFL or NBA athletes because the NHL is a 'quieter league' is close-minded as **** and makes me feel sorry for them.

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05-21-2013, 04:51 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I don't know how people can think race plays an issue in deciding whether PK gets the Norris or not or in deciding whether someone likes the guy or not. It's 2013...we're past that ****, multicultural is a part of todays world and todays/future generations. Everyone has different coloured friends, its really a non-issue and it doesn't matter in the NHL either...whoever says black people behave more like NFL or NBA athletes because the NHL is a 'quieter league' is close-minded as **** and makes me feel sorry for them.
C'mon man, don't be so naive.

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05-21-2013, 05:01 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Cmon, I'm sure subconsciously race plays a role in many peoples view point whether they want to or believe they do, but to call the NHL the KKK league is a stretch.

There are a few reason why PK is hated.
1. He's a Hab (Biggest Reason)
2. Young guy with swag
3. Seems cocky for a young guy
4. Agitates other teams top players (bit of a troll)
5. Coaches/management even seemed to suggest PK had to mature and develop as a person (crock of ****). If management of this young man feels this way, of course it will influence the sheep
6. The media has bought into it after cherry-like rants (management did nothing to minimize the impact imo)
7. He's black ( the least influential part), but it would take complete ignorance to pretend racism isn't alive and well, but I don't agree that it is anywhere near the top of the list of why PK is a polarizing figure.
absolutely but I still think the black part is a bigger part than you think.

how he gets booed everywhere is kind of sickening. I know PK says it doesn't bother him and he does thrive on it but it's still pretty disgusting.

I know being black isn't the only reason he's booed but it's a huge part. I've never seen that kind of hate displayed for Matt Cooke when he was borderline trying to kill people out there.

The worst stuff I've seen PK do is some slew foots that looked pretty accidental IMO. People need to remember that Wayne Simmonds crap last year with the banana.

You can have all those other factors on the list and if he was white I 100% guarantee he's not being booed at all.

Besides all that, I wouldn't trade him for anything. Not even Crosby.

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05-21-2013, 08:19 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
absolutely but I still think the black part is a bigger part than you think.

how he gets booed everywhere is kind of sickening. I know PK says it doesn't bother him and he does thrive on it but it's still pretty disgusting.

I know being black isn't the only reason he's booed but it's a huge part. I've never seen that kind of hate displayed for Matt Cooke when he was borderline trying to kill people out there.

The worst stuff I've seen PK do is some slew foots that looked pretty accidental IMO. People need to remember that Wayne Simmonds crap last year with the banana.

You can have all those other factors on the list and if he was white I 100% guarantee he's not being booed at all.

Besides all that, I wouldn't trade him for anything. Not even Crosby.
While I'm not so naïve to believe there isn't an element of racism in some fans' reaction to Subban's play and demeanor, I think the basis for much of the booing stems from envy. Over the years, the best players in the league Howe, Hull, Orr, Gretzky, etc. have engendered this type of reaction. It's an expression of the opposing fans' fear of that player and their acknowledgment of that player's superior ability. By booing they are saying: 'maybe I can upset his play' but more importantly, their reaction reflects their envy: "why can't we have a player like him on our team". This rather primitive reaction is prevalent at all levels of hockey, particularly minor hockey where I have often witnessed parents booing another, clearly superior player. What those parents are really saying is: "why can't my son or daughter be as good as that kid?".

If Subban wasn't good or effective, no one would notice or care. As long as the opposing fans boo, you have all the confirmation you need of his comparative level of play. The booing should be music to your ears as I am certain it is to Subban's.

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05-21-2013, 08:32 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I don't know how people can think race plays an issue in deciding whether PK gets the Norris or not or in deciding whether someone likes the guy or not. It's 2013...we're past that ****, multicultural is a part of todays world and todays/future generations. Everyone has different coloured friends, its really a non-issue and it doesn't matter in the NHL either...whoever says black people behave more like NFL or NBA athletes because the NHL is a 'quieter league' is close-minded as **** and makes me feel sorry for them.
Sorry to tell you but you're quite naive.
Just look at how some well educated people in the states questioned Obama, the most powerful man in the world. Some of these clowns asked him to show his birth certificate, you realize this? If that's not racism than I dont know what is.
Racism is present everywhere, I wish it wasn't but it is. I'm not saying that if PK doesn't win it's due to racism, but it's certainly not crazy to think its present in te NHL.

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05-21-2013, 01:54 PM
  #82
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If, like Jack Adams voters, Norris voters really are biased towards late-season play (that's why MT ended up #4 or #5 in Jack Adams voting) then Subban wins it IMO. Late-season, there's no denying that Subban didn't play like an ordinary #1, despite the slump.

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05-21-2013, 02:01 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sorry to tell you but you're quite naive.
Just look at how some well educated people in the states questioned Obama, the most powerful man in the world. Some of these clowns asked him to show his birth certificate, you realize this? If that's not racism than I dont know what is.
Racism is present everywhere, I wish it wasn't but it is. I'm not saying that if PK doesn't win it's due to racism, but it's certainly not crazy to think its present in te NHL.
Didn't Laraque admit a couple of years ago that players on the ice use to call him the N word?

I wouldn't be surprised if racism is present in hockey as well.

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05-21-2013, 02:29 PM
  #84
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Didn't Laraque admit a couple of years ago that players on the ice use to call him the N word?

I wouldn't be surprised if racism is present in hockey as well.
I'd say it's a small segment of players, and even the ones who do would accept PK if he were on their team and scoring goals (not Laraque's forte, by the way). Besides, players don't cast votes for the Norris.

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05-21-2013, 03:41 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Sorry to tell you but you're quite naive.
Just look at how some well educated people in the states questioned Obama, the most powerful man in the world. Some of these clowns asked him to show his birth certificate, you realize this? If that's not racism than I dont know what is.
Racism is present everywhere, I wish it wasn't but it is. I'm not saying that if PK doesn't win it's due to racism, but it's certainly not crazy to think its present in te NHL.
One thing, Canada is not like the United States.

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05-23-2013, 11:08 AM
  #86
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Interesting endorsement from the reigning Norris champ.

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05-23-2013, 11:18 AM
  #87
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Interesting endorsement from the reigning Norris champ.
Let's wait until we hear what he says to Letang tomorrow.

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05-23-2013, 11:22 AM
  #88
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05-23-2013, 12:07 PM
  #89
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Let's wait until we hear what he says to Letang tomorrow.
Karlsson - You play defense like me bud

Letang - Defense, what is this? I make points.

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05-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Not many D become finalists for the Norris, doubt anyone would have guessed he'd become one this soon.

I wonder if he'll make the 1st-Team All Star lineup.
LOL looking up history, guess which Toronto Captain was a Norris Finalist...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Not trolling but I think Montreal as a team is better off if he doesn't win. Skill wise he is there but I think there is a level of maturity he needs to reach before you let the dog off the leash. I think it would benefit him to be passed over this time so it makes him look at the other areas in which he can improve that don't have to do with hockey.

I think the season Suter had seeing as he went to a new team and was teamed up with a rookie is leading the vote count. He started very poorly and then it just started to click. Letang is surrounded by too many stars that it is to difficult to distinguish his play from the rest.

I think if Karlsson wasn't hurt this season it would have been his award to lose just because of how good he is at controlling the game.
I am going to have to agree with this post just a bit, but I highly doubt that if he wins the Norris is he going to think he's the best defensive defenseman ever. Yeah it may get to his ahead a bit to start next year but eventually he'll be back.

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Originally Posted by Chili View Post
The majority of the west writers probably didn't follow the east much, especially with the conference schedules.

Beyond that these votes are popularity contests more then who should win.
Suter should win on this merit. Guy went from a NSH that was like 5th place (where NSH subsequently became 12th/13th without him [and the CUBE! ]) to a on the cusp playoff team and finally propelled them into the playoffs. Wait, no that's wrong. Parise and co. along with Suter helped with that.

Letang shouldn't win, well cuz, LOOK AT PITTSBURGH.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the fact that PK's TOI is much less than both AND the fact that he outscored Suter and Tied for Letang make that all the more impressive. If we compare +/- yes I can understand how a D with more TOI on average and a better +/- would be better, but I don't think it works in this case...however you play more TOI, the more valuable you are to your team so...

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Karlsson - You play defense like me bud

Letang - Defense, what is this? I make points.

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05-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Karlsson - You play defense like me bud

Letang - Defense, what is this? I make points.

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05-23-2013, 12:58 PM
  #92
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Good one. I wish.

Still lots of KKK out there...just living in hate 24/7.

Still can't believe it was ok to cross-check PK to the head and get away with it (no penalty).

****ing KKK NHL.
It's a Don Cherry NHL.

Can't wait till that changes.

Lots of KKK lovers out there that still can't admit that they think Subban is too NBA or too NFL for the NHL.


p.s.: give it to Karlsson again since he's got blue eyes and blonde hair. Forget that he may have black roots 1000-2000-3000yrs ago!!
I wouldn't go as far as to call it a KKK league. But being black myself, I do see where you're coming from.

I'd say most of the racist views towards PK come from some fans and media rather than the league itself. I've never seen a hockey player get so much criticism for minor issues. Guys like Dany Heatley(reckless driving resulting in death), Ondrej Pavelec(DUI), Joe Corvo(assault), Todd Bertuzzi(ended a man's career with a cheapshot), Matt Cooke(multiple cheapshots) have done far worse things than PK on and off the ice and don't get anywhere near the hatred he gets. Some people just can't handle the fact that a confident, flamboyant black man is succeeding in a predominantly white domain.


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05-23-2013, 01:42 PM
  #93
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I wouldn't go as far as to call it a KKK league. But being black myself, I do see where you're coming from.

I'd say most of the racist views towards PK come from some fans and media rather than the league itself. I've never seen a hockey player get so much criticism for minor issues. Guys like Dany Heatley(reckless driving resulting in death), Ondrej Pavelec(DUI), Joe Corvo(assault), Todd Bertuzzi(ended a man's career with a cheapshot), Matt Cooke(multiple cheapshots) have done far worse things than PK on and off the ice and don't get anywhere near the hatred he gets. Some people just can't handle the fact that a confident, flamboyant black man is succeeding in a predominantly white domain.
Totally agree. When it comes to awards and where the finalists are very close, it becomes a popularity contest. And no matter what idealistic portait of "modern" teabagging society is painted, people have a guttural response to people.

The hype about how much PK is hated is actually larger than how much he's hated and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. He's such an awesome player, IMO > Karlsson (I mean I actually want to make that >> even though Karlsson has a lot of talent, but is in no way even close to the best D) and it sucks that this league can appreciate Crosby (though he's hated out of respect), but not do the same for PK.

I think he fully deserves the Norris. I also think Suter has been great. I would hate to see Letang get it over either of those two cuz he is more in the mould of Karlsson (though I think Letang plays better D).

Karlsson (horrible defenseman) win Norris based on racking up points (was Souray a finalist that year?) = nobody has a problem/media goes on and on and on about him

IF PK wins = didn't deserve it, isn't mature (pffft, has anyone read Karlsson's emo tweets after every bad play??), too cocky, hate hate hate. Sad for the game, but as a Habs fan I'm used to it. Even innocent Chuky and Eller are going to be hated once they really start tearing up the league. We just have to win and enjoy it amongst ourselves. And ourselves...well, there are a enough of us.

Karlsson's tweets: Yo, turnovers happen brah, YOLO
*no hate replies*

PK's tweets: Crosby is unbelievable!
#monkey #1strdexit (or something like that)

I hope that the awards committee sees through the BS. That said, not winning the Norris might make him even hungrier.

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05-23-2013, 02:42 PM
  #94
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I don't care much for the Norris.

As for the best defenceman category, we could say:

1- Chara
2- Letang
3- Suter
4- Subban
5- Karlsson


I hate Chara and it's an absolute pleasure to see him snap which he tends to do from times to times when one get under his skin (see: Bégin a few years ago ) but he's the full-package.

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05-23-2013, 03:05 PM
  #95
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I don't care much for the Norris.

As for the best defenceman category, we could say:

1- Chara
2- Letang
3- Suter
4- Subban
5- Karlsson


I hate Chara and it's an absolute pleasure to see him snap which he tends to do from times to times when one get under his skin (see: Bégin a few years ago ) but he's the full-package.
Seriously? Right now Chara wouldn't be in my top5. He's not who he used to be.

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05-23-2013, 03:26 PM
  #96
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Seriously? Right now Chara wouldn't be in my top5. He's not who he used to be.
Have you been watching the playoffs other than Habs games? He's been the best defenseman in the post season.

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05-23-2013, 03:43 PM
  #97
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Have you been watching the playoffs other than Habs games? He's been the best defenseman in the post season.
They've also completely stopped enforcing standard hockey rules. Clutch and Grab is really effective when you're a 7-foot tall ape. But I'd agree that he's been more effective than he was in the regular season, for sure.

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05-23-2013, 03:51 PM
  #98
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They've also completely stopped enforcing standard hockey rules. Clutch and Grab is really effective when you're a 7-foot tall ape. But I'd agree that he's been more effective than he was in the regular season, for sure.
That's a whole other debate and I wholeheartedly agree with you. You can't have double standards like that in a pro sport.

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05-23-2013, 03:55 PM
  #99
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Interesting endorsement from the reigning Norris champ.
Those 3 seconds made my day, Karlsson sounds like he means it.

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05-23-2013, 04:46 PM
  #100
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absolutely but I still think the black part is a bigger part than you think.

how he gets booed everywhere is kind of sickening. I know PK says it doesn't bother him and he does thrive on it but it's still pretty disgusting.

I know being black isn't the only reason he's booed but it's a huge part. I've never seen that kind of hate displayed for Matt Cooke when he was borderline trying to kill people out there.

The worst stuff I've seen PK do is some slew foots that looked pretty accidental IMO. People need to remember that Wayne Simmonds crap last year with the banana.

You can have all those other factors on the list and if he was white I 100% guarantee he's not being booed at all.

Besides all that, I wouldn't trade him for anything. Not even Crosby.
He gets booed like Chara gets booed, it's because he's our best player. Some people read way too much into things.

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