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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
05-20-2013, 02:15 PM
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I wonder also if we'll end up keeping both Jokinen and Sutter. I'd think so, but I'd like a little better for Malkin's LW. If the playoffs have proven anything, it's that both he AND Sid need Kunitz.
Well, too bad Kulemin isn't a FA in off-season. He'll fill Kunitz's role well. He may not score a lot but he can do a lot of dirty work for Geno.

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05-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
I think Shero will attempt to move him, somehow. He was on a short leash and he failed again. What's his purpose?

Heck Shero was probably pissed that he had to spend on someone like Vokoun in the first place.
Yeah, I would think he will explore for a full time goalie around NHL before making a move on Fleury.

MAF isn't happy right now. I'm sure he really want to play to prove us wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if he asks for a trade.

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05-20-2013, 02:40 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Yeah, I would think he will explore for a full time goalie around NHL before making a move on Fleury.

MAF isn't happy right now. I'm sure he really want to play to prove us wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if he asks for a trade.
That would shock me!

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Old
05-20-2013, 02:49 PM
  #754
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TBH, it doesn't matter what roster Shero puts together if he keeps DB behind the bench.

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:55 AM
  #755
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Both Crosby and Malkin seem to play better when they're playing with Kunitz. So while I'm happy we have Iggy, I'm curious. Who are some comparable's to Kunitz? A straight line player who can skate who bangs bodies and play the boards, and has some skill? Dustin Brown comes to mind. But the likely hood of us being able to acquire him is probably nil.

So who else is out there? Here's a couple that I can think of...

Troy Brouwer - Not sure about his foot speed, or with the success he had this year that Washington would A trade him, and B trade him to us.
Shawn Matthias - Not sure he has the hands/smarts to play with Malkin
Nick Foligno - Same issue as Matthias.
Kyle Okposo - Would love him... but same issue as Brouwer. Good young player that I can't see NYI moving... and especially not to us.
Nikolai Kulemin - Probably could be had... but for what?

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:09 AM
  #756
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Alright, you guys are going to laugh at this, don't be too harsh

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS

Pascal Dupuis ($3.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m)
Zach Sill ($0.578m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Tyler Kennedy ($1.800m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.700m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.900m)
Douglas Murray ($2.000m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.700m)
Mark Eaton ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tanner Glass ($0.000m)
Buyout: Paul Martin ($0.000m)
Buyout: Matt Niskanen ($0.000m)
Buyout: Deryk Engelland ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,334,167; BONUSES: $85,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,050,833

I know, stupid idea, right? Here's my thinking. Pens have 3 veteran defenseman, Orpik, Letang and Murray and 3 young defensemen, Despres, Dumoulin, and Bortuzzo.

Despres and Bortuzzo already got some time in Pittsburgh so they know the NHL game. Brian Dumoulin knows the Penguins style of defense, played it at Boston College, playing it in Wilkes Barre and from what I hear is doing well. I think he could be ready for the NHL.

1. Bylsma said he thinks a long term partner for Letang could be Despres because of how they play together. Even though Bylsma hasn't played Despres much, he needs the experience of consistent NHL top 4 defense minutes to become a better player.

2. I think Orpik and Dumoulin can be similar to our current shut down pair of Orpik-Martin. Orpik can mentor Dumoulin, both BC alumni.

3. Murray can be a mentor to Bortuzzo, 2 big defenseman who have played their positions well, could be a potential bottom shutdown pair.

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:56 AM
  #757
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Why are we buying out Martin when he's turned his game around to become our best defenseman this year?

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Old
05-21-2013, 05:34 AM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post

Buyout: Tanner Glass ($0.000m)
Buyout: Paul Martin ($0.000m)
Buyout: Matt Niskanen ($0.000m)
Buyout: Deryk Engelland ($0.000m)
------
According to Cap Geek, teams are permitted to use 2 buyouts.

I definitely won't use it on Martin. He's most consistent defenseman on team, IMO.

I think Shero will try to trade Orpik, Fleury or Niskanen. He won't use buyouts unless he can't get rid of one of these players.

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05-21-2013, 05:42 AM
  #759
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You can not sign TK at 1.8 Million. Minimun is 2.0 Million.
Also I do not like the idea of buying out or trading Martin.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:00 AM
  #760
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If Martin didn't waive his NTC the first time, It'd be a pretty big insult for Shero to ask him again, especially after he has elevated his play so much.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:13 AM
  #761
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Makes zero sense to trade or buyout Martin anytime soon.

The only real priority UFA signing I see is Dupuis. I've been fairly underwhelmed by Morrow, Murray and Iginla. I'd still take Iginla back at the right price if possible and hope he'd get better with more time here to develop chemistry but I can't say I'd be that sad to see any of those 3 (Iggy, Morrow, Murray) go.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:29 AM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Makes zero sense to trade or buyout Martin anytime soon.

The only real priority UFA signing I see is Dupuis. I've been fairly underwhelmed by Morrow, Murray and Iginla. I'd still take Iginla back at the right price if possible and hope he'd get better with more time here to develop chemistry but I can't say I'd be that sad to see any of those 3 (Iggy, Morrow, Murray) go.
It comes down to price. For the right price, I'd be happy to have Iggy or Murray. Morrow, not so much. He had a great 2 week stretch playing with Dupuis, but assuming that won't be happening again he can walk.

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05-21-2013, 08:40 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
It comes down to price. For the right price, I'd be happy to have Iggy or Murray. Morrow, not so much. He had a great 2 week stretch playing with Dupuis, but assuming that won't be happening again he can walk.
Hard to argue that, Ogrezilla. There's probably a place here for Iggy and Murray at the right price. I don't really see a fit for Morrow here beyond this season.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:40 AM
  #764
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No point in buying out Martin. He's been our best D this season.

Also, not much point using a buyout on Engelland when he has one of the smallest cap hits. Waste of a buy out - should keep them to those who aren't performing on bigger cap hits. i.e Fleury in the playoffs. Would get more with Engelland and Niskanen by trading them.

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05-21-2013, 08:49 AM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post
Why are we buying out Martin when he's turned his game around to become our best defenseman this year?
We're not buying him out, I used that option to clear his salary, I'm saying trade him, and I'm saying trade him because we're against the cap and we have solid D prospects who are close to NHL ready. Dumoulin being a strong candidate to make the team next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
You can not sign TK at 1.8 Million. Minimun is 2.0 Million.
Also I do not like the idea of buying out or trading Martin.
TK signed his contract when he scored 20+ goals that season, if he can get that on the open market, good for him, but if he wants to stay a Penguin, he would have to take a paycut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lettuceAA View Post
If Martin didn't waive his NTC the first time, It'd be a pretty big insult for Shero to ask him again, especially after he has elevated his play so much.
Martin chose not to waive the 1st time because Shero asked him if he even wanted traded in the first place, if Shero plans on trading him, he will ask him to waive instead of asking him if he wants traded. And I'm looking past his elevated play, this team is going to be tight against the cap, and he's making the most out of any player on our blue line. When Martin missed a month, how did our D look? We're better with him but I didn't notice any poor play without him unlike when we're without Letang.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Makes zero sense to trade or buyout Martin anytime soon.
Why? Look at the reasons I mentioned above, he definitely deserves props for elevating his game, but he's the most expensive blue liner at the moment, I don't think he's a $5M defenseman, when we were without him, our defense was still solid, when we're without Letang, our defense looks lost. So when I look at Martin, what makes us think Dumoulin can't A). Play that role better than Martin. B). Play it as good as Martin or C). Play it slightly more subpar than Martin but it's worth the $4.1M bridge in cap space?

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:51 AM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
No point in buying out Martin. He's been our best D this season.

Also, not much point using a buyout on Engelland when he has one of the smallest cap hits. Waste of a buy out - should keep them to those who aren't performing on bigger cap hits. i.e Fleury in the playoffs. Would get more with Engelland and Niskanen by trading them.
I know, we wouldn't buy them out, that's just a way I cleared salary from the team, I'm not sure if there is a trade option on capgeek or not, if there is, I didn't see it.

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05-21-2013, 10:29 AM
  #767
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Buy out Martin? Really? I dont undestand. Paulsy has been great and our best defenseman this season. I won't use it on Martin, it would be stupid.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:20 AM
  #768
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People just refuse to read. lol
One inch above "buy out paul martin...!!!??" you see "im not saying buy him out im saying trade him Capgeek limits etc...."

So funny.

IDK if I'd want to trade Martin I'd always figured Orpik. Matter of opinion though when your building imagenary rosters. Martin would bring good assets back if we really felt like Dumoulin could contribute meaningful minutes right away.
Despres Letang
Orpik Niskanen
Dumoulin whoever
Might not be so bad. Then in a year Orpik and Niskanen are off the books right? Just in time for Malkin and Letangs extensions with Harrington having played a year in the AHL? Can't say that timing doesnt make sense at least.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:36 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by lettuceAA View Post
If Martin didn't waive his NTC the first time, It'd be a pretty big insult for Shero to ask him again, especially after he has elevated his play so much.
Martin has a limited NTC. He can list about 10-12 teams where he doesn't want to go. Shero can trade him anywhere else that he'd like.

Personally, the idea of having to move Martin has been based on next year's 64.3M cap number and on moving the big contract that makes the most sense to move. That was Martin before. It's Fleury now.

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05-21-2013, 11:38 AM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Hard to argue that, Ogrezilla. There's probably a place here for Iggy and Murray at the right price. I don't really see a fit for Morrow here beyond this season.
I actually am not sure how bright it would be to keep Dupuis, Iginla, and Dan Bylsma as coach.

IMO, depending upon how things shake out, if salaries have to be moved (and some will regardless), I expect Fleury to go first, then probably Niskanen.

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05-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
When Martin missed a month, how did our D look? We're better with him but I didn't notice any poor play without him unlike when we're without Letang.

Why? Look at the reasons I mentioned above, he definitely deserves props for elevating his game, but he's the most expensive blue liner at the moment, I don't think he's a $5M defenseman, when we were without him, our defense was still solid, when we're without Letang, our defense looks lost. So when I look at Martin, what makes us think Dumoulin can't A). Play that role better than Martin. B). Play it as good as Martin or C). Play it slightly more subpar than Martin but it's worth the $4.1M bridge in cap space?
Martin has 10 years of NHL experience and is our only D other than Letang capable of playing 25 minutes a night. While I'm a big fan of Dumoulin and can't wait to see him in our lineup, it wouldn't be at the expense of Martin. Especially not before he's proved himself at the NHL level.

With that lineup you posted, you don't pay 1.8m to TK to play on the 4th line. IF anything I'd be letting Orpik go. And as much as I like Murray's play, he needs someone who can skate the puck out of danger.

The issue with the lineup below is that it'll cost ~ 15.5m in salary - which is peanuts. It just means we won't have the luxury of 1.8m for Matt Cooke or 1.8m for TK to play on the 3rd/4th lines.

Letang - Despres
Martin - Dumoulin
Murray - Niskanen
Engo

Of all our D... Niskanen is the one that really doesn't seem to fit. I'm not a fan of him on our top pairing - yes they played well during part of the regular season, but I still do not like it. I don't like him on a shutdown pairing, so that kinda leaves him on the 3rd pairing. I'd actually be moving him first for a winger.

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05-21-2013, 12:17 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Martin has 10 years of NHL experience and is our only D other than Letang capable of playing 25 minutes a night. While I'm a big fan of Dumoulin and can't wait to see him in our lineup, it wouldn't be at the expense of Martin. Especially not before he's proved himself at the NHL level.

With that lineup you posted, you don't pay 1.8m to TK to play on the 4th line. IF anything I'd be letting Orpik go. And as much as I like Murray's play, he needs someone who can skate the puck out of danger.

The issue with the lineup below is that it'll cost ~ 15.5m in salary - which is peanuts. It just means we won't have the luxury of 1.8m for Matt Cooke or 1.8m for TK to play on the 3rd/4th lines.

Letang - Despres
Martin - Dumoulin
Murray - Niskanen
Engo

Of all our D... Niskanen is the one that really doesn't seem to fit. I'm not a fan of him on our top pairing - yes they played well during part of the regular season, but I still do not like it. I don't like him on a shutdown pairing, so that kinda leaves him on the 3rd pairing. I'd actually be moving him first for a winger.
Orpik is the third guy on my list. Fleury first. Nisky second. Orpik third, and definitely if we resign Murray for about the 2.5M he's making now.

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05-21-2013, 01:01 PM
  #773
Riptide
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Orpik is the third guy on my list. Fleury first. Nisky second. Orpik third, and definitely if we resign Murray for about the 2.5M he's making now.
While Murray would be cheaper than Orpik, I still don't see Shero shipping out Orpik. Loyalty to the player or whatever. And I don't see room for both going forward. We have too many D in the system. Even with Morrow gone (grr), that still leaves Bort (either needs to play or get moved) ready, with Dumo probably ready, and Harrington knocking on the door (although probably a year or two off).

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05-21-2013, 01:07 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Alright, you guys are going to laugh at this, don't be too harsh

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS

Pascal Dupuis ($3.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jarome Iginla ($4.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m)
Zach Sill ($0.578m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Tyler Kennedy ($1.800m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.700m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Brian Dumoulin ($0.900m)
Douglas Murray ($2.000m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.700m)
Mark Eaton ($0.725m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tanner Glass ($0.000m)
Buyout: Paul Martin ($0.000m)
Buyout: Matt Niskanen ($0.000m)
Buyout: Deryk Engelland ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,334,167; BONUSES: $85,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,050,833

I know, stupid idea, right? Here's my thinking. Pens have 3 veteran defenseman, Orpik, Letang and Murray and 3 young defensemen, Despres, Dumoulin, and Bortuzzo.

Despres and Bortuzzo already got some time in Pittsburgh so they know the NHL game. Brian Dumoulin knows the Penguins style of defense, played it at Boston College, playing it in Wilkes Barre and from what I hear is doing well. I think he could be ready for the NHL.

1. Bylsma said he thinks a long term partner for Letang could be Despres because of how they play together. Even though Bylsma hasn't played Despres much, he needs the experience of consistent NHL top 4 defense minutes to become a better player.

2. I think Orpik and Dumoulin can be similar to our current shut down pair of Orpik-Martin. Orpik can mentor Dumoulin, both BC alumni.

3. Murray can be a mentor to Bortuzzo, 2 big defenseman who have played their positions well, could be a potential bottom shutdown pair.
No Beau Bennett?

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05-21-2013, 03:05 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
While Murray would be cheaper than Orpik, I still don't see Shero shipping out Orpik. Loyalty to the player or whatever. And I don't see room for both going forward. We have too many D in the system. Even with Morrow gone (grr), that still leaves Bort (either needs to play or get moved) ready, with Dumo probably ready, and Harrington knocking on the door (although probably a year or two off).
I don't see it either.

IMO, Shero resigns Dupuis. He resigns Murray for around what he's making. He ships out Fleury and Niskanen.

That's about 16.1M for defense . . . figure 18M once you slot in a 7th and 8th. 20M with Vokoun. Add Sid, Geno, Kunitz, Neal, and you've got 17M in cap space left. Sutter, Jokinen, Bennett, Vitale, Glass takes you to about 11M left.

So, if you keep Fleury, it's 6M left and you need 4 forwards (assuming you keep 13). Let Fleury go, get another Vokoun type for 2M, and you've got 9M for 4 forward positions. Figure 1.5M for the two cheapies, and it's 7.5M for two top nine forwards. Figure you keep a million in reserve . . .

You get my meaning, I'd think . . . moving Fleury makes the 64.3M cap manageable. Keeping Fleury means we're going to need a lot of help at the deadline and not have much cap space to deal with.

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