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Why Kastsitsyn instead of Carter ?

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01-04-2004, 06:29 AM
  #26
Maxpac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshad
Phaneuf is the best defenceman of Team Canada.
and your point is..........

Are they're any big centers that we can draft this year?

Or how about trading for Carter: Hossa, Hainsey, 2nd or something like that.

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01-04-2004, 06:53 AM
  #27
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel the great!
and your point is..........

Are they're any big centers that we can draft this year?

Or how about trading for Carter: Hossa, Hainsey, 2nd or something like that.
Yeah, there are big centers available in the draft. There are every year. But why are you so intent on drafting according to need? Prospects aren't ready for 2-4 years usually, and it's been proven time and time again that drafting according to need is a bad thing. Needs change in 2-4 years. Montreal drafted according to need throughout the 90s and wound up passing on a lot of quality players as a result.

Regarding your offer, I don't really see any reason why Montreal or Philly would make that deal. Too big a chance of it backfiring. Lots of potential being dealt to both sides.

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01-04-2004, 07:34 AM
  #28
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I'm kind of tired of seeing threads like those... aahhh we should have taken this player instead of this one, he's better now even though I haven't seen the other one, na na na...

Calvaire!

Can you change the past ? I think not... live with it, you can't do otherwise anyway...

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01-04-2004, 07:45 AM
  #29
RE-HABS
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You guys are putting too much into the WJC, not every player on that club will make the NHL and only one or two of them will even make an impact as a star player when they do make it. Look at past teams and you will see that, Carter is dominating over there, but when it comes to the NHL every team is going to have players bigger and better than him and it won't be so easy there as it is playing against younger and some what a tad smaller players. Plus the smaller ice surafce is going to hurt the big man too, he will be a good player in the league don't get me wrong. But you can't question your drafting over one tournament, scouts don't make up their minds on one tournament about a prospect. If they did a lot of the best players in the NHL today would have been very late picks. Carter is doing good there and his linemates are too shabby either, that always helps too.

I like our pick and he is awesome by himself and with a small little country already, if anything the upside and talent is higher with Kastsitsyn because once he is surounded with better players he is only going to improve and make those around him that much better to. Realistcally he plays against men already and in a superior league to Carter and maybe NHL ready and mature for the next step over Carter.

The thing with this is only time will tell, and Savards track record has been pretty good so far...plus I'm sure Gainey and Timmins were pretty high on Kastsitsyn too. It was a good pick.

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01-04-2004, 08:08 AM
  #30
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I am confident that Kastsitsyn will be a good player sooner or later and he might very well become our best player. I was hoping that we would draft Carter at the time, but I was happily surprised to see us drafting Kasts none the less. I was hoping for the following:

1. Jeff Carter
2. Andrei Kastsitsyn
3. Anthony Stewart
4. Zach Parise.

We had one of them and it made my day.


Now, as far as I know, both Carter and Kasts are great prospect but they are really not the same kind of player, they aren't playing in the same leagues and they don't even play the same position so I really can't compare them. Hell, I never saw Kasts play, and the starter of this thread might never have seen him too.

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01-04-2004, 08:27 AM
  #31
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I am really impressed by all the replies and "expert" analysis of the Katstisyn draft pick. None of us ever saw him playing. That's right. But this organization made so much mistakes in the past that I won't believe until I see the guy performing in a Habs'uniform.

For those who said that it is easy to find a tall, fast offensive centerman, how come the club is unable (since years...) to get one in a deal ? That's why Carter would had been a better choice. In modern NHL hockey (grab and trap crap), how many fast skilled wingers are making the difference, outside Kovalchuk ?

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01-04-2004, 08:29 AM
  #32
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Some of you are so bloody predictable it's not even funny.

If Habs grab Carter instead of Kats everyone complains that we went out and got a ''safe'' pick and a player who had according to many 2nd line potential and left a potential superstar in Kats go to another team. Then if Kats was the one tearing it up in the WJC and Carter the one stuck on a crappy Belarus team not able to participate in the tourney, we would have never heard the end of it.


Have faith in our scouts, they showed they can draft with other teams in the past and they'll do it here as well.

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01-04-2004, 08:30 AM
  #33
habs1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshad
Phaneuf is the best defenceman of Team Canada.
And A. Kastitsyn is the best player of Team Belarus !!!

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01-04-2004, 08:35 AM
  #34
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You

absolutely take Katsitsyn in the position where you are. If he was healthy he could have went first overall. The guy has tremendous skills and talent. He was 1st on my list for the Isles followed by Nilsson. secondly you listed all the talent in the wings but you think all of those will be quality sure fire NHLer's? I think that Katsitsyn is for sure. Balej on the other hand, i doubt will ever make any sort of impact in this league. Good pick by the Habs this year.

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01-04-2004, 08:44 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué
I am really impressed by all the replies and "expert" analysis of the Katstisyn draft pick. None of us ever saw him playing. That's right. But this organization made so much mistakes in the past that I won't believe until I see the guy performing in a Habs'uniform.

For those who said that it is easy to find a tall, fast offensive centerman, how come the club is unable (since years...) to get one in a deal ? That's why Carter would had been a better choice. In modern NHL hockey (grab and trap crap), how many fast skilled wingers are making the difference, outside Kovalchuk ?
The reason why the organizatino made so much mistakes in the past is because they were drafting with NEEDS! And that's the worst thing to do because you don't draft the "best player" but the "best player that will play that kind of hockey". That's like passing up on a 1st line offensive forward who will rack up 90 points a year to take a 2nd line two-way forward because he is more suited for your team...

The teams change during the player's developpement. The reason why the team can't get this fast, big offensive centerman is because of poor management. But the staff has changed since and you can see it.

But you also said that you won't be sure of Kastsitsyn because of the organisation's last mistakes and that you won't be sure until he is in a habs uniform, but at the same time you're sure that Carter would have been a better choice? That's a nonsense to me...

As Marc the Habs Fan said, change Jeff Carter's name to Tokishima Otto and make him play for team Japan and change Andrei Kastitsyn's name to Réjean Dubé and play him for team Canada. It's obvious that you will prefer Réjean Dubé, but it's only because of Tokishima's lack of exposure. (Man I don't like the comparaison I just made but anyway)

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Old
01-04-2004, 08:48 AM
  #36
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS
You guys are putting too much into the WJC, not every player on that club will make the NHL and only one or two of them will even make an impact as a star player when they do make it.
I agree with your general point, but this quote of yours made me look back over past WJC teams. Just for interest sake:

1996 - Iginla, Gauthier, Phillips, Redden, Warrener, Curtis Brown, Langkow, McCauley with Theodore/Denis in nets.

1995 - Allison, McCabe, Daze, Daigle, Ryan Smyth, Todd Harvey, Redden, Friesen, Tucker, Jovanovski with Storr/Cloutier tandem in nets.

1994 - Allison, McCabe, Peca, Witt, Friesen, Carter with Storr/Manny Fernandez in nets.

1993 - Lapointe, Kariya, Niedermayer, Gratton, Daigle, Rathje, Jason Smith, Pronger, Aucoin, Legace.

1992 - Lapointe, Lindros, Sydor, Kariya, Niedermayer, Matvichuk

1991 - Lindros, Brisebois, Draper, Thornton, Sillinger, Johnson, Lapointe, Niedermayer, Potvin

Clearly not all the players make it, but there's a surprising amount of high quality talent from each year that make it to the NHL.

Anyway, I don't want to distract the scintillating discussion on whether or not a player few of us have ever seen was the right pick 6 months after the fact, but I thought this was an interesting note. :p

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Old
01-04-2004, 08:59 AM
  #37
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué
But this organization made so much mistakes in the past that I won't believe until I see the guy performing in a Habs'uniform.

That's fair, but this organization made mistakes in the past. Under past scouts, and past management. This management team has been involved with the success of the Avalanche, Senators and Stars. Three championship clubs that built their foundation through the draft.

I'm with you on not believing a prospect's really a player until they're suited up and on NHL ice. But there's a difference between being cautious and stating the Habs should have picked some other player six months after the draft, without having seen much of either player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué
For those who said that it is easy to find a tall, fast offensive centerman, how come the club is unable (since years...) to get one in a deal ?
By the same logic, how come the club has been unable to obtain any first line wingers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué
In modern NHL hockey (grab and trap crap), how many fast skilled wingers are making the difference, outside Kovalchuk ?
Looking at the top ten scorers last season: Naslund, Hejduk, Bertuzzi, Murray and Heatley. That's five. Two of the best goalscorers this year are Nash and Kovalchuk, both wingers.

From 10-20 ranks in scoring last year: Mogilny, Palffy, Hossa, Prospal, Kovalev.

I understand your point that the name of the game is strength down the middle and defense in today's NHL, but don't underestimate the need for creativity, and balanced scoring as well. Always draft the best player available.

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Old
01-04-2004, 09:00 AM
  #38
RE-HABS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I agree with your general point, but this quote of yours made me look back over past WJC teams. Just for interest sake:

1996 - Iginla, Gauthier, Phillips, Redden, Warrener, Curtis Brown, Langkow, McCauley with Theodore/Denis in nets.

1995 - Allison, McCabe, Daze, Daigle, Ryan Smyth, Todd Harvey, Redden, Friesen, Tucker, Jovanovski with Storr/Cloutier tandem in nets.

1994 - Allison, McCabe, Peca, Witt, Friesen, Carter with Storr/Manny Fernandez in nets.

1993 - Lapointe, Kariya, Niedermayer, Gratton, Daigle, Rathje, Jason Smith, Pronger, Aucoin, Legace.

1992 - Lapointe, Lindros, Sydor, Kariya, Niedermayer, Matvichuk

1991 - Lindros, Brisebois, Draper, Thornton, Sillinger, Johnson, Lapointe, Niedermayer, Potvin

Clearly not all the players make it, but there's a surprising amount of high quality talent from each year that make it to the NHL.

Anyway, I don't want to distract the scintillating discussion on whether or not a player few of us have ever seen was the right pick 6 months after the fact, but I thought this was an interesting note. :p
As you can see a lot of players have made it, but not everyone made it to be a star and if you look back at some of those rosters with the Canadian team a lot of the top line leaders didn't even have a NHL career, just time enough for a coffee and the rest in the AHL or in Europe.

Look at guys like Comrie that never even made the team but are having good NHL careers. Just like picking players for a scout the possibility of an NHL career or even a decent NHL career for those kids is hit or miss too.

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