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Old
05-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #401
InjuredChoker
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Holmgren would go so hard after Edler.

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05-16-2013, 04:04 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
So Eklund has been speculating that Edler/Kesler may be moved at the draft & Farhan Lalji has been saying that Edler is most likely to be moved at the draft, of all the Nucks dmen.

With this in mind should we target Edler at the draft? He's on a great contract and is good for 40-50 points every season. I have no idea what it would cost to get him but I they would want Smith+Nyquist, possibly +.

If we miss our guy at 17/18 I'd offer: 17/18th overall+Tatar/Jurco+Smith/Ouellet. I'm not sure if that's enough but I'd really want to stay away from giving up Nyquist if it means not getting Edler so be it.
What on earth do the Wings need Edler for? Is Edler going to help this Wings team reach the level of this Hawks team? I seriously doubt it.

The Wings need to be mindful of their weaknesses and fix them slowly and methodically, not piss away large amounts of assets on Kronwall v2.0.

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05-16-2013, 04:43 PM
  #403
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What on earth do the Wings need Edler for? Is Edler going to help this Wings team reach the level of this Hawks team? I seriously doubt it.

The Wings need to be mindful of their weaknesses and fix them slowly and methodically, not piss away large amounts of assets on Kronwall v2.0.
He gives us an another top pairing dman. While he makes mistakes he fills a need for us and makes our powerplay better right away. The contract he is one of the best in the league & it won't hurt us in the future. The way I look at it is if we have to go give up Smith+Tatar for Edler we lose a top 9 player who should be a 50-60 point guy in his prime & Smith. Smith's max potential imo is a meaner Edler & we have a lot of wingers with similar potential to Tatar.

I'm all for the retool an and let everyone develop together, the only problem is that we don't have anyone to replace Datsyuk/Zetterberg when there play does fall off. It hasn't happened yet but it will happen at some point so why not go and trade some of our excess prospects to get someone that can help us now and in the future.

Next year our D looks something like this:

Kronwall-Ericsson
Kindl-DeKeyser
Smith-Quincey
Lashoff

Or it could look like this:

Kronwall-Ericsson
Edler-DeKeyser
Kindl-Quincey
Lashoff

We have enough stop gap forwards to be able to trade away Tatar/Jurco in order to upgrade our D. Mind you playing Edler with Kronwall would lead us to insanity because of all the bonehead plays but having both should greatly increase our point production from the backend. With the way AA, Ferraro, Pulkkinen & Frk have progressed this year we have no shortage of top 6/middle 6 prospects.

I'm open to all options at the draft & if we can trading our 1st+ means that we can get Stastny or Edler I'm all for it. I don't think we will move it and I think we're going to draft a great player but we're at the point now where we can start to look at moving our prospects for bigger pieces.

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05-16-2013, 11:09 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
He gives us an another top pairing dman. While he makes mistakes he fills a need for us and makes our powerplay better right away. The contract he is one of the best in the league & it won't hurt us in the future. The way I look at it is if we have to go give up Smith+Tatar for Edler we lose a top 9 player who should be a 50-60 point guy in his prime & Smith. Smith's max potential imo is a meaner Edler & we have a lot of wingers with similar potential to Tatar.

I'm all for the retool an and let everyone develop together, the only problem is that we don't have anyone to replace Datsyuk/Zetterberg when there play does fall off. It hasn't happened yet but it will happen at some point so why not go and trade some of our excess prospects to get someone that can help us now and in the future.

Next year our D looks something like this:

Kronwall-Ericsson
Kindl-DeKeyser
Smith-Quincey
Lashoff

Or it could look like this:

Kronwall-Ericsson
Edler-DeKeyser
Kindl-Quincey
Lashoff

We have enough stop gap forwards to be able to trade away Tatar/Jurco in order to upgrade our D. Mind you playing Edler with Kronwall would lead us to insanity because of all the bonehead plays but having both should greatly increase our point production from the backend. With the way AA, Ferraro, Pulkkinen & Frk have progressed this year we have no shortage of top 6/middle 6 prospects.

I'm open to all options at the draft & if we can trading our 1st+ means that we can get Stastny or Edler I'm all for it. I don't think we will move it and I think we're going to draft a great player but we're at the point now where we can start to look at moving our prospects for bigger pieces.
I have to say no to the idea of going after Edler. We have more than enough able defensive talent developing in our prospect system, we will have 1st/2nd pairing offensively talented dmen in Ouellet and Sproul, as well as Smith, Dekeyser, Kindl and Ericsson, with McKee, Nedomlel, Almqvist and Nicastro fighting to get in as well. Needs addressed, there; just need to be patient.

How about addressing real future needs, like forwards that can help make up for the future departure of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, or physical centermen with good hands? Drafting from somewhere other than the bottom of the barrel would be nice while we can.

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05-16-2013, 11:59 PM
  #405
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I have to say no to the idea of going after Edler. We have more than enough able defensive talent developing in our prospect system, we will have 1st/2nd pairing offensively talented dmen in Ouellet and Sproul, as well as Smith, Dekeyser, Kindl and Ericsson, with McKee, Nedomlel, Almqvist and Nicastro fighting to get in as well. Needs addressed, there; just need to be patient.

How about addressing real future needs, like forwards that can help make up for the future departure of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, or physical centermen with good hands? Drafting from somewhere other than the bottom of the barrel would be nice while we can.
The main problem is that we're still drafting at the bottom. At 18th overall, in this years draft, all of the good centerman with #1 potential will likely be gone before we can pick. The only centers I could see us taking are Horvat/Lazar/Wennberg and I think Horvat/Wennberg would have to fall to us and they project more as #2C guys then #1C. They only way to pick someone with #1C potential is to be in the top 10, or in some cases the top 3/5. I'd have no problem taking the BPA when we pick but by trading for someone like Edler/#2C we could trade some of our excess prospects for that center/defenceman. I think both will fill needs going forward as only Jarnkrok/Smith/Sproul even are projecting to fill those roles.

There comes a time when you have to sell off the surplus before you start to lose those players to waivers/contract space limits you. Soon we'll be at the 50 contract limit and GR is extremely full with some of our prospects having to be in the ECHL next year. If we continue to horde our prospects and we continue to hit we're going to have to make some tough choices about who we keep.

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05-17-2013, 07:15 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
The main problem is that we're still drafting at the bottom. At 18th overall, in this years draft, all of the good centerman with #1 potential will likely be gone before we can pick. The only centers I could see us taking are Horvat/Lazar/Wennberg and I think Horvat/Wennberg would have to fall to us and they project more as #2C guys then #1C. They only way to pick someone with #1C potential is to be in the top 10, or in some cases the top 3/5. I'd have no problem taking the BPA when we pick but by trading for someone like Edler/#2C we could trade some of our excess prospects for that center/defenceman. I think both will fill needs going forward as only Jarnkrok/Smith/Sproul even are projecting to fill those roles.

There comes a time when you have to sell off the surplus before you start to lose those players to waivers/contract space limits you. Soon we'll be at the 50 contract limit and GR is extremely full with some of our prospects having to be in the ECHL next year. If we continue to horde our prospects and we continue to hit we're going to have to make some tough choices about who we keep.
So you sell off excess prospects if you think that you can get a better return that way, I agree. I am not of the mind that you both sell multiple high end prospects and 1st round draft picks for Edler, or another defenseman unless that defenseman really brings something that the Wings are lacking. We have an Edler, he's called Kronwall.

Also, this is an offseason in which multiple teams will likely have to buy out players or restructure their teams because of poor cap-management decisions. This would be a good time for the Wings management to dictate terms of negotiation, and not get manhandled in terms of what we have to give up to get high(er) end players. With our burdensome surplus of cheap talent in Grand Rapids, we present the means for other teams to reduce their salary caps while remaining competitive. The Wings could even stand to improve the talent pool in which we draft by trading away prospects for higher end draft picks; can't go wrong there, so long as you are savvy about which prospects you're willing to sell off.

This isn't the time to send generous gift baskets of picks and prospects for talent; this is time for opportunism. There are plenty of other teams in the league that will be forced to give up talent that the Wings actually need, and we could get such players far cheaper than we could get someone like Edler, whom doesn't fill a particular need. Also, Edler was recently signed by Vancouver, and there is no longer a real opportunity that presents itself to acquire him; I'd love to have Zach Bogosian on the Wings, but that doesn't make much sense in terms of feasible acquisitions, does it? It doesn't make sense to negotiate with other teams when THEY can dictate the terms of negotiation. We have our defensive corps of the future set with what we have on the big team and in Grand Rapids, unless someone throws a gritty, heavy hitting and effective defenseman or two our way, in which case we take the offer, if it makes sense, and move on.

EDIT: Just found out that Bogosian is RFA; not the best example now of unfeasible acquisitions. Considering how many Winnipeg players are RFA or UFA 2013/2014 according to Capgeek.com, Winnipeg might be a shining example of a team for opportunist teams to prey on. Time for Holland to complete his coup and bolster our defense by signing Derek Meech! Git'R Done, Kenny!


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05-17-2013, 08:01 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
The main problem is that we're still drafting at the bottom. At 18th overall, in this years draft, all of the good centerman with #1 potential will likely be gone before we can pick. The only centers I could see us taking are Horvat/Lazar/Wennberg and I think Horvat/Wennberg would have to fall to us and they project more as #2C guys then #1C. They only way to pick someone with #1C potential is to be in the top 10, or in some cases the top 3/5. I'd have no problem taking the BPA when we pick but by trading for someone like Edler/#2C we could trade some of our excess prospects for that center/defenceman. I think both will fill needs going forward as only Jarnkrok/Smith/Sproul even are projecting to fill those roles.

There comes a time when you have to sell off the surplus before you start to lose those players to waivers/contract space limits you. Soon we'll be at the 50 contract limit and GR is extremely full with some of our prospects having to be in the ECHL next year. If we continue to horde our prospects and we continue to hit we're going to have to make some tough choices about who we keep.
I agree that we need to sell some of our pieces because we have an overload but I'd prefer to use them to go after a potential #1C. Either moving up in the draft or trade with Col, Phi etc who have C depth or someone like Burmistrov. Then sign someone like Stalberg to replace where Tatar would go. That gets rid of some of our size issues as well.

Say we lose Tatar and Smith for the #1C. Then we could sign a solid D man as a stop gap. That Veteran experience would be nice too with Kronwall as our only D man over 30. Kindl and DD looked good together.

Kronwall, E
Kindl, DD
Quincey, FA
Lashoff, Cola

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05-20-2013, 12:20 AM
  #408
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My new prediction: Wings trade down, take Laurent Dauphin. I watched him a bit at the under 18s and he looks a surprising amount like a Zetterberg sort of player. Not much wheels, but agility and some impressive skill too.

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05-20-2013, 07:13 PM
  #409
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Between Mantha and Hartman who do you guys pick?

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05-20-2013, 09:57 PM
  #410
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draft

MANTHA OR HARTMAN

very tough decision mantha he is big but not physical he is a goal scorer ,hartman is a two way forward and available to play center and he is physical

tough decision but i choose ryan hartman

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05-20-2013, 10:02 PM
  #411
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MANTHA OR HARTMAN

very tough decision mantha he is big but not physical he is a goal scorer ,hartman is a two way forward and available to play center and he is physical

tough decision but i choose mantha
Mantha vs Hartman is sort like Franzen-lite vs Callahan. Do you want a guy who will give you 100% every shift (but might not be the most talented) or the guy who will only play when he wants to (but is great when he does)?

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05-20-2013, 10:36 PM
  #412
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draft

i choose RYAN HARTMAN Comparable player for me would be Nathan Horton...Horton played a very similar style in juniors.

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05-21-2013, 02:08 AM
  #413
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i generally prefer the player with higher upside, especially in 1st round. i think it is easier to get a player like callahan via FA than a player like franzen.

i have seen neither player, though, so i couldn't pick between them.

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05-21-2013, 04:56 AM
  #414
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Well looks like detroit is playing themselves out of 18th overall into 27-28th overall

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05-21-2013, 05:31 AM
  #415
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draft

if the wings beat the hawks and choose at the 27 or 28 rank ..the question is who we choose between:

adam erne
jt compher
ryan hartman
kerby rychel

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05-21-2013, 05:50 AM
  #416
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Isn't Ryan Hartman more of a grinder...a waste to use a 1st round pick for a 4th liner

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05-21-2013, 08:16 AM
  #417
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Well looks like detroit is playing themselves out of 18th overall into 27-28th overall
Its worth it to beat Chicago for our last your in the West and make a run.

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05-21-2013, 08:25 AM
  #418
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Its worth it to beat Chicago for our last your in the West and make a run.
Each to their own, agree to disagree.

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05-21-2013, 09:10 AM
  #419
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Its worth it to beat Chicago for our last your in the West and make a run.
It's more worth to teach some things about winning hockey to our new kids on the block.

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05-21-2013, 09:21 AM
  #420
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Each to their own, agree to disagree.
if we can beat the hawks, we can beat the kings/sharks and the pens/bruins/sens/rangers. for the chance to play in the last 4, surely anyone would trade an 18th overall pick for a 27-30 pick? the whole point of drafting good players is to have a team capable of winning the cup. if we beat the hawks, THIS team is capable of winning the cup itself.

having said that, i still probably expect the hawks to win this series, but you've got to be in it to win it.

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05-21-2013, 10:56 AM
  #421
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if we can beat the hawks, we can beat the kings/sharks and the pens/bruins/sens/rangers. for the chance to play in the last 4, surely anyone would trade an 18th overall pick for a 27-30 pick? the whole point of drafting good players is to have a team capable of winning the cup. if we beat the hawks, THIS team is capable of winning the cup itself.

having said that, i still probably expect the hawks to win this series, but you've got to be in it to win it.
When somebody predicts the team they cheer for to lose 95% of the games it's pretty obvious.

They went into the season thinking this team sucks and has no chance. The only saving grace would be a good draft pick. When the team actually steps up and knocks out the 2nd seed and is out playing the 1st seed. Sometimes it's hard to admit when you are wrong. Not trying to single out just Mindfly their are many posters who completely wrote off this team.

Win or lose they have shown they can compete with any team. If they can do it for the entire series is yet to be seen. All I can say is I love watching them do what their doing and would love to pick 30th every single year.

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05-22-2013, 10:35 PM
  #422
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I think the Wings will pick up defenseman Niklas Hansson in the 3rd round if he's still available.

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05-23-2013, 12:12 AM
  #423
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Between Mantha and Hartman who do you guys pick?
Mantha and it's not even close.. but that's my opinion of course.

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05-23-2013, 08:35 AM
  #424
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I've seen a lot more of Hartman and it's hard not to love his game, but Detroit is really lacking that high-end forward prospect. Not that it's going to be easy to find one, but Mantha has the big size and scoring touch we need up front. Might be worth a gamble.

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05-23-2013, 06:21 PM
  #425
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If we end up beating the Hawks we'll be picking 27th in the draft, unless we go onto win the cup in which case we'd be 30th. If we're picking there I really don't know who we take. There are a ton of player from 20-40 that we could take and I wouldn't mind it at all. I think the #1 player for us to draft would be Shea Theodore, he seems to have some pretty nice skill and offensive potential, Zykov if he's still on the board, maybe Marko Dano, I also wouldn't be overly upset if we trade back and picked up an extra 2nd/3rd. I'm really looking forward to this draft,

If we do lose out to the Hawks I hope we either trade up for Shinkaruk or hope that Domi/Wennberg fall to us.

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