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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 4)

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Old
05-20-2013, 10:29 PM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
See post 840 in this thread...
See post 849 from this thread where I say that the timing of whatever consensus you thought you detected renders its consideration moot. Half of a half season among those looking like they could contend for the Vezina. Lofty...

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05-20-2013, 10:37 PM
  #852
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Jim Carey was awesome for a little amount of time too. Point is, a goalie can completely lose his game in a short period of time, lets hope this hasn't happened to the immortal Carey Price.

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05-20-2013, 10:44 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
See post 849 from this thread where I say that the timing of whatever consensus you thought you detected renders its consideration moot. Half of a half season among those looking like they could contend for the Vezina. Lofty...
Like I said, see 840. And this time read it.

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05-21-2013, 05:59 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post

Since when is Detroit, Colombus, Washington and Dallas clear cut worse teams than Montreal?
Now, I know you're scrapping the bottom of the barrel for arguments. Here's a clue. Look at the regular season points.

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05-21-2013, 06:24 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Luongo regularly missed the playoffs with Florida and was still considered one of the best goalies in the game.

For God's sake man our D was so bad we ADDED Thomas freaking Kaberle to try to make our D better. And you KNOW this. You are smart enough to realize this. Please, let's not go down this path because we both know that Quick, Lundqvist or anyone else wouldn't have won squat with that team.
With the BIGGEST QUESTION MARK ever....can Luongo be a winner? Is he just satisfied to be a good regular season goalie? There was always a big question mark to this great goalie...question mark that shouldn't be beside the list of "great goalies"...Yes, our D was bad...we didn't acquire Kaberle to make our D better, we thought we needed a puck-moving d-man mostly for our PP. As far as who would have done what with us....honestly we do not know. You also know what confidence does to people. You have a goalie who's continuously make the big saves, you know that it reflects on the players in front of him. If we take this year for example, the average play of Price reflected on the rest of the team....like surely the average play of our D reflected on Price himself. They fed from each other in the playoffs....negatively of course. But you add a Quick for us, and I'm sorry, we do not lose in 5. Do we lose? Moot point, we don't know. But we have a better chance.

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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
So Rinne is not top 5 anymore ?

How can someone think he's not an actual game changer ? How can someone label the last series he had as bad ?

There's wanting result... And wanting result out of a team that will not bring results.

Thornton never made it to the SCF finals... Does that make him someone you should part with? Should he get all the blame ?
But both of your examples don't many any sense as both of these guys brought their game to another level pretty consistently. What Price wasn't able to do consistantly. So not only he is not consistent in the regular season, but he doesn't have playoff success as well. And for the record, yes....Thornton was blamed for his lack of success in the playoffs. And frankly, it's not like he never had any points in it...it's because people were expected more out of him. So he doesn't have all the blame 'cause that's the nature of the beast. The tougheset position of them all is goaltending. They will be the first one to blame as their mistake create a goal compared to another player's mistake that could ALWAYS be corrected by the goalie. We've been targeting Nashville as a really bad team and borderline miraculous to see that they were always in despite of it, the greatest reason being Rinne. They also had a good duo with Weber-Suter as well, but Rinne was doing miracles on top of miracles. I saw 1 year of miracles from Price. And 1 series.

By the way, I'M not expecting miracles from Price anymore. Just need a goalie that will give us a chance to win. With a save% around .920.

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05-21-2013, 07:06 AM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
What you are actually trying to say is that next season will be a key season for the team.
Not really. The team is going through a rebuild with plenty of youngsters. It isn't considered a contender yet, nor should it.
Price on the other hand will be 26, needs a little more consistency, and he put pressure on himself by saying he needs to be better at the end of this year.

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05-21-2013, 07:12 AM
  #857
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Now, I know you're scrapping the bottom of the barrel for arguments. Here's a clue. Look at the regular season points.
What if I told you that the standing of a half-season is not good to evaluate teams?

What if I told you that Colombus has actually a better team than us? At least, defensively.

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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But both of your examples don't many any sense as both of these guys brought their game to another level pretty consistently. What Price wasn't able to do consistantly. So not only he is not consistent in the regular season, but he doesn't have playoff success as well. And for the record, yes....Thornton was blamed for his lack of success in the playoffs. And frankly, it's not like he never had any points in it...it's because people were expected more out of him. So he doesn't have all the blame 'cause that's the nature of the beast. The tougheset position of them all is goaltending. They will be the first one to blame as their mistake create a goal compared to another player's mistake that could ALWAYS be corrected by the goalie. We've been targeting Nashville as a really bad team and borderline miraculous to see that they were always in despite of it, the greatest reason being Rinne. They also had a good duo with Weber-Suter as well, but Rinne was doing miracles on top of miracles. I saw 1 year of miracles from Price. And 1 series.

By the way, I'M not expecting miracles from Price anymore. Just need a goalie that will give us a chance to win. With a save% around .920.
How do they not make any sense? Rinne had one season where he was nominated for the Vezina, and one run to the WCF and the rest of his season have actually been pretty inconsistent. He's part of the Preds finishing so low this year, if Price was bad this year, then Rinne wasn't even a starter with how played from day to day. I thought he also gave us a chance to win in this series. But the offense never capitalized and the defense stopped playing after one little inevitable goal would have been allowed because he was the only one playing.

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05-21-2013, 07:40 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
By the way, I'M not expecting miracles from Price anymore. Just need a goalie that will give us a chance to win. With a save% around .920.
Sometime in the 2011-12 season as an exercise in what-if, I asked this forum would a trade of Price for Reimer, Kadri & Gardiner (or Colbourne) help the Habs. Remember this was when Reimer was a laughing stock, Kadri was overweight and Gardiner had just had a few good games. The overwhelming response was I was crazy. No one would do it.

Let's revisit that trade today. Which Habs fan would turn down that trade today?

I still think Price's potential is better than Reimer's but i would make that trade without a hesitation. Problem is that the T.O. management would laugh MB off the phone if he proposed it.

I bring this up because last year I was just fooling around with trade ideas but this year I really think the only way Price will ever help the Habs is if we take advantage of his unwarranted elite goalie reputation and cash in our chips.

I agree with Lafleur's Guy that there are still lots of hockey people who think Price is elite. Not as many as last year and probably more than at the end of next year. I really believe what we have seen of Price is what we're gonna get. As the movie title said This is As Good As It Gets.

I would look to cash in on Price's reputation and score a big return and then turn around and go get that goalie that you're hoping Price will be:
Quote:
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a goalie that will give us a chance to win. With a save% around .920

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05-21-2013, 07:44 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Sometime in the 2011-12 season as an exercise in what-if, I asked this forum would a trade of Price for Reimer, Kadri & Gardiner (or Colbourne) help the Habs. Remember this was when Reimer was a laughing stock, Kadri was overweight and Gardiner had just had a few good games. The overwhelming response was I was crazy. No one would do it.

Let's revisit that trade today. Which Habs fan would turn down that trade today?

I still think Price's potential is better than Reimer's but i would make that trade without a hesitation. Problem is that the T.O. management would laugh MB off the phone if he proposed it.

I bring this up because last year I was just fooling around with trade ideas but this year I really think the only way Price will ever help the Habs is if we take advantage of his unwarranted elite goalie reputation and cash in our chips.

I agree with Lafleur's Guy that there are still lots of hockey people who think Price is elite. Not as many as last year and probably more than at the end of next year. I really believe what we have seen of Price is what we're gonna get. As the movie title said This is As Good As It Gets.

I would look to cash in on Price's reputation and score a big return and then turn around and go get that goalie that you're hoping Price will be:
Let me get this straight....
You want to trade Price. Okay, fine.
By you vision he's not good enough to be our goalie(We are a bubble team at best... So he's not good for what 20 other teams?)

But now... If you know this... Why would a GM trade for him? And give valuable assets for him?

Tell you something, if you know something, the GM knew it already or he knows more than you. So, its either you're wrong or you're wrong.

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05-21-2013, 07:56 AM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Let me get this straight....
You want to trade Price. Okay, fine.
By you vision he's not good enough to be our goalie(We are a bubble team at best... So he's not good for what 20 other teams?)

But now... If you know this... Why would a GM trade for him? And give valuable assets for him?

Tell you something, if you know something, the GM knew it already or he knows more than you. So, its either you're wrong or you're wrong.
So what are you telling me? That you & Lafleur's Guy are talking out of your rear ends. You are the guys claiming that hockey people see Price as an elite goaltender. I say let's take advantage of that misconception by these hockey people and trade him.

If we can't trade him for a great deal then that proves that you & Lafleur's Guy are wrong about Price's rep.

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05-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #861
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So what are you telling me? That you & Lafleur's Guy are talking out of your rear ends. You are the guys claiming that hockey people see Price as an elite goaltender. I say let's take advantage of that misconception by these hockey people and trade him.

If we can't trade him for a great deal then that proves that you & Lafleur's Guy are wrong about Price's rep.
It's a little more complicated than that. The real is who to replace him with? The answer is way more complicated than you may think.

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05-21-2013, 08:47 AM
  #862
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It's a little more complicated than that. The real is who to replace him with? The answer is way more complicated than you may think.
He is definitely on the ropes at this point though, he simply needs to be better. He gets paid like a top goalie and there is little doubt he hasn't played like one since the 2011 playoffs. I was critical of the signing then and I still am to this day, I thought it was a massive over commitment to a player that has proved little to date. Price's problem is strictly between the ears, it's all in his head. It's a similar problem to Roberto Luongo at this point, the problem isn't the athlete's abilities so much as it is his confidence.

I would not be surprised at all if Bergevin is shopping him in some capacity, especially if he can land a goalie with similar career numbers that has a substantially easier contract to swallow.

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05-21-2013, 08:56 AM
  #863
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Sigh... Some people will defend Price regardless of how poorly he does... No point debating more. It's like a girl who won't leave an abusive boyfriend because she "loves him".

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05-21-2013, 09:10 AM
  #864
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Sigh... Some people will defend Price regardless of how poorly he does... No point debating more. It's like a girl who won't leave an abusive boyfriend because she "loves him".
Definitely one of the best analogies I've heard regarding Price on these boards, and completely spot on too might I add.

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05-21-2013, 09:25 AM
  #865
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Sigh... Some people will defend Price regardless of how poorly he does... No point debating more. It's like a girl who won't leave an abusive boyfriend because she "loves him".
Yea lol great analogy. It's like if you were a fan of a team that hasn't proven anything over last 20 years, who would keep sticking around for that right?

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05-21-2013, 09:49 AM
  #866
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What if I told you that the standing of a half-season is not good to evaluate teams?

What if I told you that Colombus has actually a better team than us? At least, defensively.



How do they not make any sense? Rinne had one season where he was nominated for the Vezina, and one run to the WCF and the rest of his season have actually been pretty inconsistent. He's part of the Preds finishing so low this year, if Price was bad this year, then Rinne wasn't even a starter with how played from day to day. I thought he also gave us a chance to win in this series. But the offense never capitalized and the defense stopped playing after one little inevitable goal would have been allowed because he was the only one playing.
It's rare to see a tight game where the other team doesn't come back against the Habs.

Can you honestly say that when the Habs lead 3 - 2 in the third your confident the habs will win because of Price... You should because that's the effect a good effective goalie will have on a team. I for one I'm never confident in those situation I even expect the puck to go in.

Because that's exactly in those kind of situation that Price is at his worst.

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05-21-2013, 09:53 AM
  #867
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's a little more complicated than that. The real is who to replace him with? The answer is way more complicated than you may think.
I really don't see finding a comparable goalie to Price a problem.

Halak right now has way less value then Price and he's probably on the market.

Price is not that hard to replace.

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05-21-2013, 10:13 AM
  #868
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I really don't see finding a comparable goalie to Price a problem.

Halak right now has way less value then Price and he's probably on the market.

Price is not that hard to replace.
So you want a goalie that will give you ~40 games a year. Good deal.

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05-21-2013, 10:15 AM
  #869
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So what are you telling me? That you & Lafleur's Guy are talking out of your rear ends. You are the guys claiming that hockey people see Price as an elite goaltender. I say let's take advantage of that misconception by these hockey people and trade him.
If we can't trade him for a great deal then that proves that you & Lafleur's Guy are wrong about Price's rep.
You see, thats your problem right there. You are assuming that you know more than these "hockey" people, when the reality couldn't be farther from the truth. As the saying goes, most of these hockey guys have forgotten more about the game than you will ever know.

Lets not pretend that we are experts and these guys are amateurs.

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05-21-2013, 10:16 AM
  #870
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Yea lol great analogy. It's like if you were a fan of a team that hasn't proven anything over last 20 years, who would keep sticking around for that right?
Agreed. Worst, analogy, ever.

Comparing an athlete who is struggling to domestic violence.

You know you are grasping at straws when...

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05-21-2013, 10:22 AM
  #871
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It's rare to see a tight game where the other team doesn't come back against the Habs.

Can you honestly say that when the Habs lead 3 - 2 in the third your confident the habs will win because of Price... You should because that's the effect a good effective goalie will have on a team. I for one I'm never confident in those situation I even expect the puck to go in.

Because that's exactly in those kind of situation that Price is at his worst.
Do you have any stats to back that up? Of Carey Price's 21 wins this year, 11 of them were 1 goal games.

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05-21-2013, 10:51 AM
  #872
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Do you have any stats to back that up? Of Carey Price's 21 wins this year, 11 of them were 1 goal games.
Which still doesn't prove anything because they could have started as 2 & 3 goal leads. And then again maybe not. Your stat is as misleading as his statement.

All I know is that Subban plays on the same lousy team as Price but he is living up to his potential. Eller plays on the same team and has no trouble developing. Gallagher check. Galchenyuk check. Emelin & Diaz had no trouble living up to expectations.

Price, well, let's lay the blame at the feet of his team mates.

Price was drafted & is right now paid as a difference maker and quite honestly he has not been a difference maker.

True that when those other players goof up there's always someone else to cover up whereas when Price brain farts there's no one. But his gaffes have been too many and too often.

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05-21-2013, 10:52 AM
  #873
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i'm here for the ride and don't create pointless expectations. Specifically when they are based on 1/2 season.

Things have gotten better, especially if you consider the awfull transition of the habs ownership last year, which resulted in poor and hasty behavior by all levels of the Habs org, and that includes the players.
Lucky we got back on track quickly, and hopefully no more hasty moves will be done, which includes trading your number 1 goalie after a season where he didn't perform up to par with his new contract on his first year. Luckily his contract is based on the potential achievements that can be done within the time frame, which is bigger then 1 year (more like half a year).

The only thing that needs to be done in this case is MB having a plan B. Budaj is not it. Nor is going after another number 1. If a number 1 is available in this league, it's because he comes with risks or even bigger salary restrictions. Only way is to draft/develop or pro scout/trade for other prospect Gs, and develop.

Either that, or Price ***** the bed real hard next year, and you all get your wishes of "competing" by using the "Trial and error" method and picking up goalies wherever we can and let chance play even bigger role in overall success.

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Agreed. Worst, analogy, ever.

Comparing an athlete who is struggling to domestic violence.

You know you are grasping at straws when...
Yea, pathetic analogy, and sad to see that people feel that they are literary being abused by Price and his performance, mentaly i'm assuming, with his jedi powers.


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05-21-2013, 10:59 AM
  #874
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You see, thats your problem right there. You are assuming that you know more than these "hockey" people, when the reality couldn't be farther from the truth. As the saying goes, most of these hockey guys have forgotten more about the game than you will ever know.

Lets not pretend that we are experts and these guys are amateurs.
John Ferguson Jr was a hockey person and the Bruins fleeced him with the Rask trade. The Bruin GM was a hockey person when he gave away Thornton, didn't stop him from brain farting in public. Buttons was a hockey person when he let St Louis go for nothing. Gainey & Gauthier were hockey people when they traded McDonaugh for a washed up Gomez. Burke was a hockey person when he made the Kessel trade. I can waste the rest of the day citing all the "great" moves by supposed hockey people.

Wanna tell me again these hockey people have superior insight all the time?

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05-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #875
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i'm here for the ride and don't create pointless expectations. Specifically when they are based on 1/2 season.

Things have gotten better, especially if you consider the awfull transition of the habs ownership last year, which resulted in poor and hasty behavior by all levels of the Habs org, and that includes the players.
Lucky we got back on track quickly, and hopefully no more hasty moves will be done, which includes trading your number 1 goalie after a season where he didn't perform up to par with his new contract on his first year. Luckily his contract is based on the potential achievements that can be done within the time frame, which is bigger then 1 year (more like half a year).

The only thing that needs to be done in this case is MB having a plan B. Budaj is not it. Nor is going after another number 1. If a number 1 is available in this league, it's because he comes with risks or even bigger salary restrictions. Only way is to draft/develop or pro scout/trade for other prospect Gs, and develop.

Either that, or Price ***** the bed real hard next year, and you all get your wishes of "competing" by using the "Trial and error" method and picking up goalies wherever we can and let chance play even bigger role in overall success.



Yea, pathetic analogy, and sad to see that people feel that they are literary being abused by Price and his performance, mentaly i'm assuming, with his jedi powers.
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I haven't read the whole thread, so not sure what popular belief is amongst fans right now. I think you obviously move forward with Price, but drafting a goalie in the first couple of rounds would light a fire under his ass. While the new prospect wouldn't be an immediate threat, it would show that the organization are taking precautions. Of course, you don't do this to taunt him, I think it's an organizational need nonetheless, but his response going into next season and beyond would be a good indication of his will to compete and mental toughness.
I agree that no knee jerk reaction to his performance this year is required, see my post quoted from yesterday. My analogy was directed at those who just can't seem to admit that he's been sub-par this year, that's all.

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