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All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:35 AM
  #51
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I think the other thing you have to consider with Tortorella is, of the players on the free agent market that could potentially help our needs (i.e., depth scoring, PP ability) how many are more or less eliminated because they're "not a Torts guy" (i.e., Jagr).

To me, if the coach is what's standing in the way of improving the team, and assuming the team needs improving, then the decision is easy. One way or another, if that's the case, the coach is holding the organization back.

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05-21-2013, 11:47 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That's embarrassing on Torts' part, not even because it was Sam, but because those were perfectly legit questions. They were questions every Ranger fan wants to know and don't always get asked. Torts, doesn't like being questioned and then calls out his own players. He can dish it out but can't take it.

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05-21-2013, 11:56 AM
  #53
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Responding to a post in the previous thread.

The argument I have been making is that this is not a transitional year. It wasn't when the season started and it doesn't change out of convenience if/when we fail at the objective of getting back to, at the very leaset, the ECF.

I get that plans change, but it doesn't change what the Rangers are focused on doing.

And to be honest, no one expected what Brassard did in the first round. To insinuate that you knew he was capable of that is total BS.

While I like the kid and think he has a nice future ahead of him, his career best PPG average was: .81 in an injury shortened season during his rookie year. Since then he's been a .55 ppg guy.

So yes, even with Gaborik's historic struggles in the Post Season (very overstated I might add), I would have been more confident in his ability, struggles this year and all, to post similar numbers to or better than what Brassard is doing.

So, in closing.

Just because I like the return doesn't mean that I agreed witht he timing of the actual trade.

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05-21-2013, 11:57 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Never saw that, but that's rough. Torts needs to take up drinking or something. I've met Sam a few times at charity games and what not, and I'd bet my experience is similar to anyone else: he's like the nicest guy you could meet. He just oozes good energy.

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05-21-2013, 11:57 AM
  #55
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The Rosen incident is so overblown. Meanwhile he basically threatened Brooks and we all laugh about it.

He's a hothead, he's said much worse in the past, and at the end of the day it works out great for the media. Sam can handle it.

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05-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
The Rosen incident is so overblown. Meanwhile he basically threatened Brooks and we all laugh about it.

He's a hothead, he's said much worse in the past, and at the end of the day it works out great for the media. Sam can handle it.
There is a gargantuan sized difference between how people view Sam Rosen and Larry Brooks.

Sam is the closest thing to royalty this city has in terms of broadcasting.

Imagine if a manager of the Dodgers snapped at Vin Scully? It's almost on that level.

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05-21-2013, 12:24 PM
  #57
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If Torts was told to cut it out and he ignores the advice by management,then he has himself to blame.

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05-21-2013, 12:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
There is a gargantuan sized difference between how people view Sam Rosen and Larry Brooks.

Sam is the closest thing to royalty this city has in terms of broadcasting.

Imagine if a manager of the Dodgers snapped at Vin Scully? It's almost on that level.
There's also a gargantuan sized difference between the way he treated Sam compared to Brooks. Torts verbally threatened Brooks but no one gave a **** because almost everyone was pro-Torts at the time. He barely goes after Sam and everyone freaks out because it's another reason to run the coach out of town.

Happened towards the end of Avery's tenure, too. Everyone freaked about the "police incident" even though it was nothing - it was just more fuel to run someone out of town. If Avery had pulled that **** the day after he trolled Brodeur in the playoffs no one would have cared.

You get put under a microscope when you start to become the scapegoat, however, it's unreasonable to think Torts is all of a sudden going to become a media darling.

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05-21-2013, 12:38 PM
  #59
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If Torts was told to cut it out and he ignores the advice by management,then he has himself to blame.
Honestly, what's going to happen?

Are they going to fire him?

They haven't fired him for the on ice product, you think they are really going to fire him for being short-tempered with a significantly slipping Sam Rosen?

If Sam was such the icon, why have him in the tranches asking questions?

That should be Joe's job or some other dude.

This was a manipulation the moment the decision was made to have Sam ask questions in that spot.

The Rangers had Sam there hoping that they were going to get a softer reply from Torts.

Can't blame a snake for biting something. It's what they do.

Torts is no different.

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05-21-2013, 12:40 PM
  #60
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You think MSG, Sam's employer wants a guy that's going to go out there and give vanilla answers, or do they want someone who gives an interview that's worth keeping the channel on.

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05-21-2013, 12:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
You think MSG, Sam's employer wants a guy that's going to go out there and give vanilla answers, or do they want someone who gives an interview that's worth keeping the channel on.
Given that Torts was reprimanded for treating Sam that way, I think the answer is pretty obvious.

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05-21-2013, 12:53 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Given that Torts was reprimanded for treating Sam that way, I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Doesn't mean that they didn't absolutely love the media attention it brought them. Just a PR move.

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05-21-2013, 12:54 PM
  #63
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I agree. I was a big Torts fan for the last couple of years, but he got the best out of those teams. This team has underachieved all year. The series isn't over, but the team is too afraid to get called out by making dumb mistakes, which just leads to more mistakes because they're playing scared. That's clearly a coaching issue.

Scott Gordon is an interesting name.
How? Where are the guys who are supposed to be better than they were this year? Richards fell of a cliff. Gaborik lost the edge of his game - both here and in Columbus. Nash was as advertised, Stepan took a HUGE leap, Brassard is playing some of the best hockey of his career, Callahan is on his usual pace, Hagelin is about the same as last year, McD had a handful of rough games but was a steady 1D, Staal looked great when he was healthy, Stralman is better than ever, Moore went from a scratch in CBJ to a solid NHL dman here in days, Hank had a great season.

Once it became clear that Richards lost his game, I don't know why anybody had such huge expectations of this team. Making the second round is underachieving? For a team that's top 6 centers are two guys who have both just started playing in a way that could warrant that ice time? For a team that's missing its best defenseman for most of the year?

I think Torts got the best out of this team for sure. I don't see why anybody thinks this team's best is better than this. Based on what?

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05-21-2013, 12:56 PM
  #64
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The only reason Torts should be fired is if hes lost a large portion of the locker room, as far as Im concerned. The results over the last 2 seasons have been there in conjunction with the talent on the team and mitigating factors to the season.

IF they fire him, management better come with a suitable argument regarding why the on-ice product wasn't up to standard, what their vision is, and what they're going to do about it.

If they fire him because hes abrasive at news conferences and hurt Sam Rosen's feelings that one time, that would really piss me off. It'd also be right in tune with MSG's petty culture.

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05-21-2013, 12:57 PM
  #65
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How? Where are the guys who are supposed to be better than they were this year? Richards fell of a cliff. Gaborik lost the edge of his game - both here and in Columbus. Nash was as advertised, Stepan took a HUGE leap, Brassard is playing some of the best hockey of his career, Callahan is on his usual pace, Hagelin is about the same as last year, McD had a handful of rough games but was a steady 1D, Staal looked great when he was healthy, Stralman is better than ever, Moore went from a scratch in CBJ to a solid NHL dman here in days, Hank had a great season.

Once it became clear that Richards lost his game, I don't know why anybody had such huge expectations of this team. Making the second round is underachieving? For a team that's top 6 centers are two guys who have both just started playing in a way that could warrant that ice time? For a team that's missing its best defenseman for most of the year?

I think Torts got the best out of this team for sure. I don't see why anybody thinks this team's best is better than this. Based on what?
Great post. I'd love to see that last question get addressed. So many people think this is a Stanley Cup caliber team with only the coach being in the way. How? Why?

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05-21-2013, 01:13 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The only reason Torts should be fired is if hes lost a large portion of the locker room, as far as Im concerned. The results over the last 2 seasons have been there in conjunction with the talent on the team and mitigating factors to the season.

IF they fire him, management better come with a suitable argument regarding why the on-ice product wasn't up to standard, what their vision is, and what they're going to do about it.

If they fire him because hes abrasive at news conferences and hurt Sam Rosen's feelings that one time, that would really piss me off. It'd also be right in tune with MSG's petty culture.
This. Although with his responses about Hagelin and McDonagh just in the past week and a half one has to wonder if he is losing them.

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05-21-2013, 01:15 PM
  #67
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Great post. I'd love to see that last question get addressed. So many people think this is a Stanley Cup caliber team with only the coach being in the way. How? Why?
I will try to answer your question with a question.

Moving forward, I think most people are hoping this team can continue competing and get better. Is Torts a coach that you feel comfortable with leading a more skilled, competitive team to a Cup?

I honestly don't know my own answer, just a talking point.

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05-21-2013, 01:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Responding to a post in the previous thread.

The argument I have been making is that this is not a transitional year. It wasn't when the season started and it doesn't change out of convenience if/when we fail at the objective of getting back to, at the very leaset, the ECF.

I get that plans change, but it doesn't change what the Rangers are focused on doing.

And to be honest, no one expected what Brassard did in the first round. To insinuate that you knew he was capable of that is total BS.

While I like the kid and think he has a nice future ahead of him, his career best PPG average was: .81 in an injury shortened season during his rookie year. Since then he's been a .55 ppg guy.

So yes, even with Gaborik's historic struggles in the Post Season (very overstated I might add), I would have been more confident in his ability, struggles this year and all, to post similar numbers to or better than what Brassard is doing.

So, in closing.

Just because I like the return doesn't mean that I agreed witht he timing of the actual trade.
Who cares what no one expected? It worked out well too. No one expected Pascal Dupuis to become an excellent player and Alex Bouret (sp?) to bust. Does it make you feel better that we made the trade? (I know Crosby had something to do with that, but that trade is a bust even if Dupuis stayed at the level of the trade). You would expect to Gaborik to give you the production to the tune of 10 points in 9 games? That's quite optimistic, but when usually didn't match that in good years. This year he was 0.5 PPG player.

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05-21-2013, 01:23 PM
  #69
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I will try to answer your question with a question.

Moving forward, I think most people are hoping this team can continue competing and get better. Is Torts a coach that you feel comfortable with leading a more skilled, competitive team to a Cup?

I honestly don't know my own answer, just a talking point.
He already has led a skilled team to the cup, so theres no doubt in my mind hes capable.

What I think hes incapable of doing is nurturing the development of certain types of players. But, with that said, I dont think this team is inheritantly very talented as it is when looking through the prism of a Stanley Cup caliber roster.

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05-21-2013, 01:26 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He already has led a skilled team to the cup, so theres no doubt in my mind hes capable.

What I think hes incapable of doing is nurturing the development of certain types of players. But, with that said, I dont think this team is inheritantly very talented as it is when looking through the prism of a Stanley Cup caliber roster.
I would like to see him allow McDonagh, MDZ and Moore play a little bit more. Stralman came in as an offensive guy and has settled into a defensive role, but it would be nice to get some offense out of these talented d-men the Rangers have. I think it would help the transition game.

Also, that was pre-2-lockouts ago.

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05-21-2013, 01:28 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I will try to answer your question with a question.

Moving forward, I think most people are hoping this team can continue competing and get better. Is Torts a coach that you feel comfortable with leading a more skilled, competitive team to a Cup?

I honestly don't know my own answer, just a talking point.
I think so; we were so close to the Finals last year. What available coach is going to be able to bring us at least that far?

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05-21-2013, 01:30 PM
  #72
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I would like to see him allow McDonagh, MDZ and Moore play a little bit more. Stralman came in as an offensive guy and has settled into a defensive role, but it would be nice to get some offense out of these talented d-men the Rangers have. I think it would help the transition game.

Also, that was pre-2-lockouts ago.
I think all 3 of those defensemen are/will be good players.

Unfortunately, I think large portions of the fanbase overrated all of them, which is part of the problem. Is it the coach limiting their ability, or is it that they're good - but not great - players?

In regards to "pre-2 lockouts ago," who cares? People love to push this false narrative that the game has revolutionized in the last decade. It really hasnt.

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05-21-2013, 01:33 PM
  #73
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Moore and MDZ jump into the play all the time. Moore is also much better at this due to his IQ and skating ability. McD: I'm not sure.

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05-21-2013, 01:35 PM
  #74
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I think all 3 of those defensemen are/will be good players.

Unfortunately, I think large portions of the fanbase overrated all of them, which is part of the problem. Is it the coach limiting their ability, or is it that they're good - but not great - players?

In regards to "pre-2 lockouts ago," who cares? People love to push this false narrative that the game has revolutionized in the last decade. It really hasnt.
I think that with MDZ's past and McDonagh and Moore's speed, I would like to believe other teams would have allowed them to have a bit more free reign on jumping into the play.

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05-21-2013, 01:36 PM
  #75
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This team has better top 2 centers than last year's. If we go by the top 2 centers in the playoffs and ignore who it was in the regular season, Brassard>Richards and this year's Stepan while not very productive already scored 3 big 3rd period goals, 2 were game winners and 1 would have been if the PK and Lundqvist did his job, much better than last year's Stepan (also better defensively and a much bigger factor on the ice). Nash, I'd still prefer over Gabby. Gabby inflated his totals in the series against Washington last year and did nothing in any other series. So if we're to be fair we should give Nash more games. I thought he hasn't been bad since game 6 of the Caps series. He had a great game on Sunday, I'd argue a better game than any that Gabby had last year. I'd still prefer Nash over Gabby. Gabby's style is just not a playoff style. Zucc is a better passer than anyone on the Rangers last year (Richards at least as a Ranger is overrated here and Stepan wasn't very good by the playoffs at all). He's a great addition to the 2nd line and our #2 scorer in the playoffs. Hags is much improved from last year. Our D, while not having Staal and getting regression from some players, you have to remember that MDZ was up and down last year in the playoffs too and McDonagh and Girardi did a much better job against a more dangerous Ovechkin this year. Plus, while our top talent goes down because of Staal's injury, the fact that despite some struggles we have 6 NHL D-men is huge. You won't have guys tire out as much. I really don't think Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett are a downgrade from our 3rd line last year. Worse defensively, but have better offensive potential, maybe even a better forecheck. I don't see how we're NOT better this year.

People just love to trash the team even when it's not warranted. Only player that ever gets a pass is Lundqvist.

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