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The Rumors and Speculation Thread #5 (June 8: Bob McKenzie's rumors [page 27])

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Old
05-21-2013, 03:12 PM
  #26
Stizzle
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Well of course that's too expensive, I'd only resign him if it was for a reasonable value to comparable forwards available.
I think he gets that on the open market, but obviously I could be wrong.

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05-21-2013, 03:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
This seems like as good a time as any for my daily "Don't trade Couturier."

Don't trade Couturier.
I've noted this before, but I think the idea (at least from myself, but it seems like from others) behind trading Couturier has nothing to do with people undervaluing or giving up on him or whatever may be the case. The idea is that this team sorely needs to upgrade the defense. This team has an abundance of centers, all of which will not be able to play center on this team at the same time, meaning at least one but more likely two of Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Cousins, and Laughton will have to be traded or switched to wing. Maybe I am wrong on this but I don't think it is as easy to switch to wing as some are insinuating, especially when you are a top tier guy who is used to playing your natural position. Not to mention it may not be something you want to do as a player, which might make it harder to re-sign that player down the road. Couturier would likely fetch the greatest return on a trade. I don't know who is available but trading a high ceiling center for a high ceiling defender when you have at least two other high ceiling centers already on the NHL roster (Giroux/Schenn), another waiting in the wings (Laughton), and another should be a solid NHLer (Cousins) would not be the worst idea in the world. I would be fine with them dealing Schenn or Laughton as well, I just think Couturier will bring back the most in a trade. And of course I am not simply suggesting we put him on the block and trade him just to trade him, but if there is a guy out there who has that top pairing potential and a deal con be worked out involving him and Couturier I don't think you simply hang up the phone without considering it. It has to be the right guy, but I don't think anyone outside of Giroux really should be considered untouchable at this point, given the state of this team's defense.

As an example, look what the Pens did with Jordan Staal. The scenarios aren't exactly the same, but the Pens got good value for a guy that likely wasn't going to be around. Not that Couturier is a guy who isn't likely to be around in coming years, but there is a clear log-jam at center and a clear deficiency on the blue line. For the same reasons I do not want the Flyers to draft a centerman under any circumstances (other than MacKinnon falling), I would be fine in dealing Couturier for the right guy(s).

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05-21-2013, 03:47 PM
  #28
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Cousins projects as a winger at this level. I wouldn't include him as part of a logjam.

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05-21-2013, 03:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I've noted this before, but I think the idea (at least from myself, but it seems like from others) behind trading Couturier has nothing to do with people undervaluing or giving up on him or whatever may be the case. The idea is that this team sorely needs to upgrade the defense. This team has an abundance of centers, all of which will not be able to play center on this team at the same time, meaning at least one but more likely two of Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Cousins, and Laughton will have to be traded or switched to wing. Maybe I am wrong on this but I don't think it is as easy to switch to wing as some are insinuating, especially when you are a top tier guy who is used to playing your natural position. Not to mention it may not be something you want to do as a player, which might make it harder to re-sign that player down the road. Couturier would likely fetch the greatest return on a trade. I don't know who is available but trading a high ceiling center for a high ceiling defender when you have at least two other high ceiling centers already on the NHL roster (Giroux/Schenn), another waiting in the wings (Laughton), and another should be a solid NHLer (Cousins) would not be the worst idea in the world. I would be fine with them dealing Schenn or Laughton as well, I just think Couturier will bring back the most in a trade. And of course I am not simply suggesting we put him on the block and trade him just to trade him, but if there is a guy out there who has that top pairing potential and a deal con be worked out involving him and Couturier I don't think you simply hang up the phone without considering it. It has to be the right guy, but I don't think anyone outside of Giroux really should be considered untouchable at this point, given the state of this team's defense.

As an example, look what the Pens did with Jordan Staal. The scenarios aren't exactly the same, but the Pens got good value for a guy that likely wasn't going to be around. Not that Couturier is a guy who isn't likely to be around in coming years, but there is a clear log-jam at center and a clear deficiency on the blue line. For the same reasons I do not want the Flyers to draft a centerman under any circumstances (other than MacKinnon falling), I would be fine in dealing Couturier for the right guy(s).
Sure, but there are people who want to trade him for Edler or other 2-4 Dmen. That's the wrong trade. There are maybe 3 Dmen in the league worth trading Couturier over, since you gut the forward corps' defensive ability with him gone.

Pittsburgh also isn't all that comparable, because they have 17.4 million tied up in two centers, and had something like 21 million in 3 centers with Staal on board; when you include Fleury's hit, that's something like 40% of your cap space spent on 4 players. At some point you have to spread cap money around so your centers can have players to work with, and you have real depth outside of those guys. The Flyers don't have that issue.

The Flyers biggest cap conundrum is their incredibly expensive defense that doesn't perform up to their cap hit. Trading an affordable forward for someone who will likely bring that D cost up even higher leaves less room to get an equal replacement for Couturier. And, no matter who you trade him for, you're fixing one hold and then opening a gaping hole in the forward group in terms of defensive responsibility.

Trading Couturier just isn't a very good idea. Couturier is, himself, a need. None of our other centers comes close to filling that role.

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Old
05-21-2013, 04:19 PM
  #30
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I'm just very glad we acquired Luke. I have always felt Brayden will be the better player between him and Couturier so I'm glad acquiring Luke meant Brayden is here to stay. If we ever trade Brayden I will lose my ****. I still think Brayden is gonna be our 2nd best forward within the next couple seasons.

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05-21-2013, 04:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
I'm just very glad we acquired Luke. I have always felt Brayden will be the better player between him and Couturier so I'm glad acquiring Luke meant Brayden is here to stay. If we ever trade Brayden I will lose my ****. I still think Brayden is gonna be our 2nd best forward within the next couple seasons.
I like the way you think. I believe he has all the abilities to become an 80 point player for a year or two and then a 60-70 point player down the road. He has all the tools we like, hockey IQ, physical, decent passing, great shot, awesome skater. He has the tools to be a great player, we all forget Couturier has actually played more NHL games than him. Schenn was brought along the way a young/physical player should be. Patience is needed with some forwards for their offensive production to come, hmmmmmmmm sounds like Couts too haha.

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05-21-2013, 04:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The Flyers biggest cap conundrum is their incredibly expensive defense that doesn't perform up to their cap hit. Trading an affordable forward for someone who will likely bring that D cost up even higher leaves less room to get an equal replacement for Couturier. And, no matter who you trade him for, you're fixing one hold and then opening a gaping hole in the forward group in terms of defensive responsibility.

Trading Couturier just isn't a very good idea. Couturier is, himself, a need. None of our other centers comes close to filling that role.


If the Flyers traded Couturier for Edler the top 6 defensemen would have a combined cap hit of $26.6 million.

And then we would spend the next 15 years watching Couturier blossom into a perennial Selke-candidate for another team.

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05-21-2013, 04:50 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I like the way you think. I believe he has all the abilities to become an 80 point player for a year or two and then a 60-70 point player down the road. He has all the tools we like, hockey IQ, physical, decent passing, great shot, awesome skater. He has the tools to be a great player, we all forget Couturier has actually played more NHL games than him. Schenn was brought along the way a young/physical player should be. Patience is needed with some forwards for their offensive production to come, hmmmmmmmm sounds like Couts too haha.
Decent passing? Schenns strong suit of his game throughout juniors has been his playmaking ability. He made Scott Glennie a 50 goal scorer in juniors . I understand what you were trying to get at though. Brayden is more of a passer than a shooter IMO. The thing that seprates him from Couturier also is his physicality. I have NEVER seen a 20 year old as physical as Brayden. He literally finishes EVERY check. It's amazing to see that from a 21 year old. He is also a much better skater than Coots.

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05-21-2013, 04:55 PM
  #34
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And a much better jumper. Just ask Volchenkov and Harrold.

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05-21-2013, 05:43 PM
  #35
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Glad it just speculation that couts is being traded and not actual rumors. Just look at the selke candidates year after year. That is who we think he could be from possibly next year for the next decade. Im not trading that for Edler. This D underprefomred plus injuries plus bryz. If they can play to their abilities and stay healhy they are completely fine as is with Gus coming up. Add to that what we plan to do at the draft and Ghost and we are going to be fine. We are sitting on a gold mine of fwds. Done trade that away.

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05-21-2013, 05:43 PM
  #36
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Brayden Schenn seems a lot like TJ Oshie to me. Higher offensive upside, but similar type of player. I'd like to see Schenn on the wing.

If the Flyers were going to trade Couturier, they should have done it for Weber. If they trade him this offseason for somebody a lot worse than Weber - which is everybody - I'll be ticked off.

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05-21-2013, 06:09 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I like the way you think. I believe he has all the abilities to become an 80 point player for a year or two and then a 60-70 point player down the road. He has all the tools we like, hockey IQ, physical, decent passing, great shot, awesome skater. He has the tools to be a great player, we all forget Couturier has actually played more NHL games than him. Schenn was brought along the way a young/physical player should be. Patience is needed with some forwards for their offensive production to come, hmmmmmmmm sounds like Couts too haha.
Call me crazy but I think he has the ability to maybe, MAYBE even have a 90 point season in his future. Something like 33 goals, 57 assists.

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05-21-2013, 06:38 PM
  #38
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Ryan Johansen seems to be having some problems with the Columbus organization. Now I am only mentioning this because Homer tried to have him included in the Carter trade. He was just a healthy scratch in the AHL playoffs also when he was sent back down. Just another player who could be on the move.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nhl/3331/ryan-johansen

Quote:
Columbus Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen said he hopes Ryan Johansen takes his recent benching in stride but noted "I' don't really care' if Johansen was unhappy playing in the AHL.
Homer likes his big centers!

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05-21-2013, 06:41 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Brayden Schenn seems a lot like TJ Oshie to me. Higher offensive upside, but similar type of player. I'd like to see Schenn on the wing.

If the Flyers were going to trade Couturier, they should have done it for Weber. If they trade him this offseason for somebody a lot worse than Weber - which is everybody - I'll be ticked off.
Flyers fans should know better.

They would have traded Couturier for Weber. Nashville wanted Couturier, plus Schenn, Voracek, and several other assets.

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05-21-2013, 06:59 PM
  #40
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Call me crazy but I think he has the ability to maybe, MAYBE even have a 90 point season in his future. Something like 33 goals, 57 assists.
I suggested this on the main boards and was laughed at. Schenn has great offensive potential. Not many prospects that we have seen in the past few years or any right now have the same set of physicality and skill like he has. The only one that compares is Landeskog. Schenn is one of the few prospects who actaully fit the Mike Richards comparision even though thats thrown out there every year now. The difference is Schenn has tthe skills Mike could only dream of, but lacks his defensive insticts/smarts. Schenn could easily have some PPG+ seasons, even though the likeliness isn't high. He was on pace for about 46 points this year in a full 82 game schedule. He was EXTREMELY inconsistant and snakebitten this season too. At one point he went 12 games straight with no points. He was above PPG at 19 games into this season. 46 points in a 82 game season with a stretch of 12 games without a point is pretty ****in good, especially for a 20 year old. Schenn is going to score at least 55 points next season. For a 21 year old that's pretty damn good. I'm so excited to see what type of player he'll be in 3 years. I haven't been this excited over a player since I started watching hockey in 2007. I may be a bit of a homer though....

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05-21-2013, 07:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Ryan Johansen seems to be having some problems with the Columbus organization. Now I am only mentioning this because Homer tried to have him included in the Carter trade. He was just a healthy scratch in the AHL playoffs also when he was sent back down. Just another player who could be on the move.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nhl/3331/ryan-johansen



Homer likes his big centers!
They have totally mishandled him... He looked so good his first year. He should be getting 2nd line minutes IMO.

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05-21-2013, 07:10 PM
  #42
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Ive never understood the hype behind Johansen. He seems over matched every time he plays.

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05-21-2013, 07:21 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Call me crazy but I think he has the ability to maybe, MAYBE even have a 90 point season in his future. Something like 33 goals, 57 assists.
BSchenn getting 90+ points in a season? I don't think he can do that. He hasn't shown the consistency to think that IMO. He would have to supplant G as the #1C first also.

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05-21-2013, 07:24 PM
  #44
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BSchenn getting 90+ points in a season? I don't think he can do that. He hasn't shown the consistency to think that IMO. He would have to supplant G as the #1C first also.
He's also only 20 years old... It's really not THAT crazy to think he will. The chances aren't very high, but when he starts to show consistancy and is possibly put on G's wing for good, he could reach 85-90 while being a physical beast/pest.

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05-21-2013, 07:31 PM
  #45
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Yes, I think it is. For all we know BSchenn might turn out to be consistently inconsistent. No way he gets that many points if that is the case. We don't know how he will develop.

Anyways, I think even if BSchenn gets consistent he will top out at around 70 points.

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05-21-2013, 07:37 PM
  #46
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I think we need to lower our expectations a bit here. Schenn will actually be 22 in August. I think he'll be a 50-60 points guy consistenly if he hits his stride mixed in with a few seasons of 70-80 points. I don't see him being switched to wing neither. Which means he'll probably be the 2C. Giroux will get the better of the linemates between the two also. I like Schenn but he doesn't have the finishing or play making ability to be 90+ points guy.

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05-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #47
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Yes, I think it is. For all we know BSchenn might turn out to be consistently inconsistent. No way he gets that many points if that is the case. We don't know how he will develop.

Anyways, I think even if BSchenn gets consistent he will top out at around 70 points.
Again, I'd like to point out he's 20 years old. You're acting like it's so insane to see an inconsistant 20 year old offensively He was on pace for almost 50 points as a 20 year old in a "very inconsistant" season. We'll see how good his numbers are when he is consistant

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05-21-2013, 07:44 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I think we need to lower our expectations a bit here. Schenn will actually be 22 in August. I think he'll be a 50-60 points guy consistenly if he hits his stride mixed in with a few seasons of 70-80 points. I don't see him being switched to wing neither. Which means he'll probably be the 2C. Giroux will get the better of the linemates between the two also. I like Schenn but he doesn't have the finishing or play making ability to be 90+ points guy.
I said it was pretty unlikely he'll ever hit 90 points, but to say he'll only score 50-60 anaully is selling him pretty short. He should hover around 70-75

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05-21-2013, 07:50 PM
  #49
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Yotes fan coming in peace. Wanted to see what you guys would think of Vermette + Gormley for Couturier.

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05-21-2013, 07:51 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
I said it was pretty unlikely he'll ever hit 90 points, but to say he'll only score 50-60 anaully is selling him pretty short. He should hover around 70-75
In a given season, only about 25 guys score 70 or more points and very, very few of them are not playing on the 1st line / 1st PP unit.

I don't see Schenn consistently putting out that kind of production.

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