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All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:52 PM
  #76
OverTheCap
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
Moore and MDZ jump into the play all the time. Moore is also much better at this due to his IQ and skating ability. McD: I'm not sure.
And we frequently see Eminger jumping into the play all the damn time, even when he shouldn't be, which has burned us as of late.

McDonagh said after a bad game this season that he needs to be more aggressive so I think it's something he's trying to work on. I don't think Torts is holding the defensemen back in this area. However, I would like to see the defensemen be a little more decisive in their own zone. The breakouts/transition need work.

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05-21-2013, 01:56 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I will try to answer your question with a question.

Moving forward, I think most people are hoping this team can continue competing and get better. Is Torts a coach that you feel comfortable with leading a more skilled, competitive team to a Cup?

I honestly don't know my own answer, just a talking point.
Do I personally feel comfortable with him trying to do that? Yes.The team was close last year and made it at least to the second round this year. Considering the flaws they've had both years, those are successful finishes in my book. I'd prefer they win the cup obviously, but a team with a 1C who is sucking on the fourth line isn't going to go all the way in my opinion, no matter who is coaching. The fact that they've put up this fight is impressive considering that Richards is useless and Staal has been gone and Gaborik was also sucking before his trade late in the season. Yeah, every team deals with huge players going through slumps and injuries, but they don't generally win the cup with them and neither will this team. Making it to the second round is dealing with it and fighting through it in my book.

And, of course, if anyone doesn't feel comfortable with Torts leading this team to the Cup, I'd like to hear why any realistic proposed replacement inspires more comfort.

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Old
05-21-2013, 02:08 PM
  #78
NYRSchrute217
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How? Where are the guys who are supposed to be better than they were this year? Richards fell of a cliff. Gaborik lost the edge of his game - both here and in Columbus. Nash was as advertised, Stepan took a HUGE leap, Brassard is playing some of the best hockey of his career, Callahan is on his usual pace, Hagelin is about the same as last year, McD had a handful of rough games but was a steady 1D, Staal looked great when he was healthy, Stralman is better than ever, Moore went from a scratch in CBJ to a solid NHL dman here in days, Hank had a great season.

Once it became clear that Richards lost his game, I don't know why anybody had such huge expectations of this team. Making the second round is underachieving? For a team that's top 6 centers are two guys who have both just started playing in a way that could warrant that ice time? For a team that's missing its best defenseman for most of the year?

I think Torts got the best out of this team for sure. I don't see why anybody thinks this team's best is better than this. Based on what?
For a team that went to the ECF last year, losing in 4-5 in the second round would be under achieving, I don't know how anyone can argue that. Funny you mention Richards, who was responsible for bringing him here? Torts. While no one expected such a drastic decline, Tortorella was the driving force behind the signing and therefore needs to have some of the responsibility. I also disagree completely about Callahan, I thought he had a terrible season. Girardi took a major step back after an all star season. Del Zotto had his moments, but he's still inconsistent and has not been good in the playoffs. That's another big impact there. Gaborik's bad season was a huge reason why we were in 8th or 9th until the trade deadline, and while he was shipped out of here, he was brutal which impacts the rest of the team and put a ton of pressure on Nash. The lack of depth killed us in the regular season, and yes, Sather tried to address that at the deadline, but it doesn't change the fact that this team has way too much talent to be a 6 seed.

I'm not blaming Tortorella, but he has not done a very good job this year. He refused to adjust his system, even a little, and under no circumstance should a team be 2 for 36 on the Power Play. Is all this grounds for firing? Not necessarily.


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Old
05-21-2013, 02:11 PM
  #79
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Funny you mention Richards, who was responsible for bringing him here? Torts.
Yeah, Torts just has to be responsible for the Richards signing...because of course there is no way Sather would sign anyone to a ridiculous long-term contract, right? Right?

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05-21-2013, 02:22 PM
  #80
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my only prioblem with torts is the way he has this team being passive at the points. that's pretty much the only thing id change, i think we give up WAY too much to the oppositions D...for a team like Boston that loves to run their offense thru their D...its killer.

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05-21-2013, 02:24 PM
  #81
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my only prioblem with torts is the way he has this team being passive at the points. that's pretty much the only thing id change, i think we give up WAY too much to the oppositions D...for a team like Boston that loves to run their offense thru their D...its killer.
Yep. The Pens kill them as well. Letang, Martin, etc.

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Old
05-21-2013, 02:28 PM
  #82
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Yeah, Torts just has to be responsible for the Richards signing...because of course there is no way Sather would sign anyone to a ridiculous long-term contract, right? Right?
Do you think that Richards picks New York over Toronto and LA without Tortorella being here?

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05-21-2013, 02:32 PM
  #83
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Do you think that Richards picks New York over Toronto and LA without Tortorella being here?
I don't know....and neither do you.

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05-21-2013, 02:37 PM
  #84
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Do you think that Richards picks New York over Toronto and LA without Tortorella being here?
This has been a controversial topic for awhile. Back when people were devided over Torts during the Avery release the pro-Torts people bragged about how he helped recruit Richards. On the flip side, the pro-Avery people said that Avery actually had more to do with recruiting Richards. I remember an article where Richards said he would have come to NY regardless of who the coach was. We'll never know if he actually meant it or just said it to pledge his allegance to NYC.

Now bringing in Richards is viewed as a bad thing and everyone has pulled a 180.

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Old
05-21-2013, 02:52 PM
  #85
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Who cares what no one expected? It worked out well too. No one expected Pascal Dupuis to become an excellent player and Alex Bouret (sp?) to bust. Does it make you feel better that we made the trade? (I know Crosby had something to do with that, but that trade is a bust even if Dupuis stayed at the level of the trade). You would expect to Gaborik to give you the production to the tune of 10 points in 9 games? That's quite optimistic, but when usually didn't match that in good years. This year he was 0.5 PPG player.
Who cares?

What we are getting from Brassard, while nice, you cannot expect to continue. Not until he does it on a consistent basis over the course of more than just one round.

Gaborik had a great 1st PO's when he was younger, but today he has the "underachiever" label attached.

Aside from an 11 game stretch spanning two first round exits (07-08 in Minny and 10-11 in NY), Gaborik has been a fine post season producer.

43 games played with 17 goals and 15 assists

Lets also take into consideration he was putting up .5 pts a game last PO's with a shoulder that required surgery that would have kept him out until November/December.

But yeah, lets take one 9 game stretch and proclaim him the better player.

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05-21-2013, 02:58 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I will try to answer your question with a question.

Moving forward, I think most people are hoping this team can continue competing and get better. Is Torts a coach that you feel comfortable with leading a more skilled, competitive team to a Cup?

I honestly don't know my own answer, just a talking point.
No.

I don't think he has it in him to adjust his system to be more than just a dump and chase team.

I do not believe he can formulate an offensive scheme that can generate offence off the rush, nor do I believe that he will somehow get the PP to work.

We have some pretty skilled players playing the PP and the scheme failed them. It can't always be the players not getting the job done. They are doing what the coaches are asking and it's not working.

I have no faith if Torts ability to find that balance between offence and defence and physicality that will allow this team to seriously compete for a championship

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Old
05-21-2013, 03:18 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
No.

I don't think he has it in him to adjust his system to be more than just a dump and chase team.

I do not believe he can formulate an offensive scheme that can generate offence off the rush, nor do I believe that he will somehow get the PP to work.

We have some pretty skilled players playing the PP and the scheme failed them. It can't always be the players not getting the job done. They are doing what the coaches are asking and it's not working.

I have no faith if Torts ability to find that balance between offence and defence and physicality that will allow this team to seriously compete for a championship
I guess you never watched those Tampa Torts teams.

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05-21-2013, 03:51 PM
  #88
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I guess you never watched those Tampa Torts teams.
I did.

Do we have a young Vinny?

Do we have a young Marty St. Louis?

Do we have a young Brad Richards?

Do we have a young Dan Boyle?

I also saw a team that faded rather quickly after that one year where they caught lightning in a bottle.

They were playoff fodder before and after that cup season.

Nothing special.

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05-21-2013, 04:14 PM
  #89
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If Sather was smart he'd get rid of Torts...It's honestly time, yea he's a good coach, and I wouldn't mind keeping him around, but with all this young talent we've got a new coach with some new perspective and ideas of how to utilize our talent and help them grow, would be huge. Torts has done all he can do.

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05-21-2013, 04:17 PM
  #90
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I did.

Do we have a young Vinny?

Do we have a young Marty St. Louis?

Do we have a young Brad Richards?

Do we have a young Dan Boyle?

.
No. We dont. Now you're starting to get somewhere regarding the major problems with this team.

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Old
05-21-2013, 04:27 PM
  #91
haveandare
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
For a team that went to the ECF last year, losing in 4-5 in the second round would be under achieving, I don't know how anyone can argue that. Funny you mention Richards, who was responsible for bringing him here? Torts. While no one expected such a drastic decline, Tortorella was the driving force behind the signing and therefore needs to have some of the responsibility. I also disagree completely about Callahan, I thought he had a terrible season. Girardi took a major step back after an all star season. Del Zotto had his moments, but he's still inconsistent and has not been good in the playoffs. That's another big impact there. Gaborik's bad season was a huge reason why we were in 8th or 9th until the trade deadline, and while he was shipped out of here, he was brutal which impacts the rest of the team and put a ton of pressure on Nash. The lack of depth killed us in the regular season, and yes, Sather tried to address that at the deadline, but it doesn't change the fact that this team has way too much talent to be a 6 seed.

I'm not blaming Tortorella, but he has not done a very good job this year. He refused to adjust his system, even a little, and under no circumstance should a team be 2 for 36 on the Power Play. Is all this grounds for firing? Not necessarily.
It's not just "a team that went to the ECF last year," though. It's a team that went to the ECF, then had massive roster turnover, then started a shortened season with almost 15 million dollars worth of dead space in two first line players that completely lost their step. Then that same team lost their number one d-man. Given all that, is making it to the second round acceptable? To me, yes. Is another coach who is actually available going to be able to do better than that? I don't know, but I doubt it.

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05-21-2013, 04:27 PM
  #92
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Who cares?

What we are getting from Brassard, while nice, you cannot expect to continue. Not until he does it on a consistent basis over the course of more than just one round.

Gaborik had a great 1st PO's when he was younger, but today he has the "underachiever" label attached.

Aside from an 11 game stretch spanning two first round exits (07-08 in Minny and 10-11 in NY), Gaborik has been a fine post season producer.

43 games played with 17 goals and 15 assists

Lets also take into consideration he was putting up .5 pts a game last PO's with a shoulder that required surgery that would have kept him out until November/December.

But yeah, lets take one 9 game stretch and proclaim him the better player.
Gaborik came off surgery and honestly, hopefully for him that contributed to him being ****ing terrible this year. Then we found out that he was injured in Columbus. So his injury last year is not all that important of a factor since he'd have the same problem this year. I looked at his playoff performances since his first year. He was decent in his second year when he had 4 points in 5 games (funny when it comes to Gaborik that's good, but Nash had similar production with Columbus and he was a choker). Other than that he hasn't done anything. He had 0.5 PPG last year, whoopti-****ing-do! That's your standard? Yeah he was obviously not healthy, but he wasn't healthy this year either. He's also NEVER healthy. Even last year when he played 82 games. The guy had 0.5 PPG, why do you assume that he'd have a better playoff than Brassard? Based on what? Also, I notice you're ignoring John Moore. Do you want a bottom pairing of Eminger-Hamerlik right now? Or Eminger-Gilroy? This is silly. There's nothing in Gabby's history except his first year a million years ago to show that it's likely he would have been better than Brassard. He was injured this year. He was a 0.5 PPG player. We also got John Moore. Yet somehow we'd do better with Gaborik.

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Old
05-21-2013, 04:41 PM
  #93
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Do we have a young Brad Richards?
We have a guy that looks a bit like him.

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05-21-2013, 04:54 PM
  #94
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Hags had 7 PPGs his final year at college.

Sucks on the PP.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:49 PM
  #95
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I think all 3 of those defensemen are/will be good players.

Unfortunately, I think large portions of the fanbase overrated all of them, which is part of the problem. Is it the coach limiting their ability, or is it that they're good - but not great - players?

In regards to "pre-2 lockouts ago," who cares? People love to push this false narrative that the game has revolutionized in the last decade. It really hasnt.
We had the largest player turnover in NHL history for the 2 seasons after the '04 lockout. Opening up the game and showcasing skill over slow-foot brawn killed the careers of over 200 players in 2 years.

Scoring went up dramatically, goalie techniques had to evolve, old system like the trap had to change dramatically or be scrapped entirely...

Watch a game from 1995-2004 and a game from 2006-2012 and it's worlds apart.

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05-21-2013, 09:05 PM
  #96
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Can we fire this clown yet? The Powerplay looks worse and worse, he keeps putting Girardi and DZ together, and he keeps putting Richards on the PP. I thought he did a decent job during the Craps series but he went full retard during the Bruins series.

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05-21-2013, 09:09 PM
  #97
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Can we fire this clown yet? The Powerplay looks worse and worse, he keeps putting Girardi and DZ together, and he keeps putting Richards on the PP. I thought he did a decent job during the Craps series but he went full retard during the Bruins series.
His downfall is his stubbornness. It's his way even when he knows he is wrong. I also think he has lost the team.

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05-21-2013, 09:12 PM
  #98
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I don't think I can stomach another year with this guy.

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05-21-2013, 09:13 PM
  #99
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Is Game 4 his last as coach? I hope so.

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05-21-2013, 09:15 PM
  #100
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Can't wait til the next coach gets scapegoated for Sather's inept roster construction. lol.

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