HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-17-2013, 01:27 PM
  #576
Stylizer1
Strickly Butter Baby
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,310
vCash: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Ottawa got Kassian because Neil was KOed by Lucic. Neil is not much bigger than Prust, about 6 and maybe 205lbs. More an agitator like Ott than a pure heavyweight.
Come again?

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  #577
Pax Macioretty
Registered User
 
Pax Macioretty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 17,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Who invented the theory that heavyweight enforcer automatically means deadweight? Why can't a heavyweight also play hockey? Ryane Clowe is an example of that.
What the mother ducking hell is this? Ryan Clowe is NOT a heavyweight enforcer, he's a top 9 player that hits ans fights, not the same thing.

And please, enough with this "and he also has to play" crap. 1st and foremost we need somebody to the job, period. If you want to improve later on that's fine, but we need protection, and we need it now. I can name 20+ teams that have atleast 1legit heavyweight in their line-up, so for those saying that they're useless, you're obviously wrong. And the funny thing is you used to be part of the crew that wanted a heavweight, in fact it was all you could talk about when you joined HF, but then you started these useless blogs and dick sucking to the media on Twitter, now you just accepted the punishment that our players go threw every season like they do.

Pax Macioretty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2013, 03:18 PM
  #578
Prairie Habs
Registered User
 
Prairie Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,653
vCash: 500
Its a shame Boston is such a soft team. They were already missing three starting D and then they lost another in Boychuk last night. If they only had someone who would stand up and fight away the injuries then they would be in a much better situation.

For the Habs they should pick up a useless thug like Parros to protect our guys. Don't let useless things like numbers try and trick you into thinking Florida lost more man games to injury than any other team this year. Knowing they had a tough guy on their team should tell us all we need to know about those lies.




Heavywight goons are useless and they don't deter injuries at all. Quality players who can play tough and fight are useful, not really for deterring injuries, but for helping to win hockey games.

Prairie Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2013, 05:28 PM
  #579
Prairie Habs
Registered User
 
Prairie Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Why would I make a thread about that when there is this one. Again, where in the definition of enforcer does it say that he must be a useless hockey player? I don't have time but I could name you several enforcers who are decent hockey players, playing 8-12 minutes a game at least.

And is the fact that Prust is a good hockey player prevent him from fighting? He's one of the players with the most fights every year!
No one is against us getting good players who can fight. This thread is about whether we should get a plug who can only fight. Even if it just a guy who can play 9 minutes and doesn't need to be spoonfed easy minutes I would be open to it. Its the thought of a 4 minute a night thug who gets 60% offensive zone starts at the expense of quality players because he can't play competently in his own end I don't like.

Prairie Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2013, 05:49 PM
  #580
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 20,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
No one is against us getting good players who can fight. This thread is about whether we should get a plug who can only fight. Even if it just a guy who can play 9 minutes and doesn't need to be spoonfed easy minutes I would be open to it. Its the thought of a 4 minute a night thug who gets 60% offensive zone starts at the expense of quality players because he can't play competently in his own end I don't like.
This is it exactly to me. Like the Isles just re-signed Eric Boulton. Who played 15/48 regular season games and zero playoff games for them, averaging 5:40 and 9 shifts in the games he did play. He had 4 fights. Nothing else. I will presume (although I don't know atm) that he is getting a 1-way deal and will hang around as their 13th or 14th forward again. I don't have a use for a player like that. I don't know if Bordeleau or some of the other guys who played more regularly are really that much better in terms of raw skills, different teams different situations and I don't watch them all enough, but I'd like to think that playing a guy in 90% of games, maybe for 10 mins on a regular 4th line shift, and him at least chipping in the odd goal or two, was a reasonable minimum level of expectation. Plus whatever enforcing he would do.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-17-2013, 05:53 PM
  #581
overlords
youmyboyblou!
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Planet Squanch
Posts: 26,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
No one is against us getting good players who can fight. This thread is about whether we should get a plug who can only fight. Even if it just a guy who can play 9 minutes and doesn't need to be spoonfed easy minutes I would be open to it. Its the thought of a 4 minute a night thug who gets 60% offensive zone starts at the expense of quality players because he can't play competently in his own end I don't like.
Everyone agrees on this in theory. That's really not the problem of the thread. The problem is in everyone's differing opinion on what constitutes a thug who 'can play'.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 09:32 AM
  #582
Habsterix*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
What the mother ducking hell is this? Ryan Clowe is NOT a heavyweight enforcer, he's a top 9 player that hits ans fights, not the same thing.

And please, enough with this "and he also has to play" crap. 1st and foremost we need somebody to the job, period. If you want to improve later on that's fine, but we need protection, and we need it now. I can name 20+ teams that have atleast 1legit heavyweight in their line-up, so for those saying that they're useless, you're obviously wrong. And the funny thing is you used to be part of the crew that wanted a heavweight, in fact it was all you could talk about when you joined HF, but then you started these useless blogs and dick sucking to the media on Twitter, now you just accepted the punishment that our players go threw every season like they do.
In my opinion, an enforcer is someone who can enforce. It isn't limited to that however. Milan Lucic can enforce, but he can also hit, skate and score goals from time to time (not necessarily in that order). So is Clowe, so is Clarkson. Others can skate, hit and defend a bit, guys like Thornton in Boston, Boll in Columbus, or Martin in New York (just to name a few). That's what the Habs need. Not some meat head who is a liability when on the ice for 4-5 minutes a game. My opinion, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
No one is against us getting good players who can fight. This thread is about whether we should get a plug who can only fight.
Where exactly does it say that, either in the thread title or in the definition of enforcer?

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 10:43 AM
  #583
Pax Macioretty
Registered User
 
Pax Macioretty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 17,653
vCash: 500
All that I know is that if we sign one of Orr, Mcgrattan or Bordeleau I won't cry about it.

Pax Macioretty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 10:55 AM
  #584
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
All that I know is that if we sign one of Orr, Mcgrattan or Bordeleau I won't cry about it.
I think it's one of those guys we need as 13th forward.

Those guys probably have little impact in the playoffs, but they still provide value through the year, letting others play with more of an edge. I'm sure guys like Simmonds and Hartnell in Phillie know they can play more chippy because they have wingnuts like Shelley Rosehill and Rinaldo watching their backs. That "attitude" starts during the season and keeps going in the playoffs.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 11:09 AM
  #585
Ghetto Sangria
Pura Vida
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 4,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I think it's one of those guys we need as 13th forward.

Those guys probably have little impact in the playoffs, but they still provide value through the year, letting others play with more of an edge. I'm sure guys like Simmonds and Hartnell in Phillie know they can play more chippy because they have wingnuts like Shelley Rosehill and Rinaldo watching their backs. That "attitude" starts during the season and keeps going in the playoffs.
There's not much a 4-5 minute a night goon can do to stop a simmonds or Lucic or malone or whoever is terrorizing the habs undersized defence if they are never on the ice when these things happen. We saw that when The habs had laraque.

If the defence gets bigger and grittier, they will be able to stop that kind of intimidation.

The only use I see for a 4-5 minute goon is when the habs play emotional games against the leafs or bruins to fight their goons in attempts to sway momentum. But if he's taking the roster spot of a young prospect, or taking a contract spot that could be used on someone else... is it really worth it? I guess that's where opinions differ.

Ghetto Sangria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 11:25 AM
  #586
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,093
vCash: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
There's not much a 4-5 minute a night goon can do to stop a simmonds or Lucic or malone or whoever is terrorizing the habs undersized defence if they are never on the ice when these things happen. We saw that when The habs had laraque.

If the defence gets bigger and grittier, they will be able to stop that kind of intimidation.

The only use I see for a 4-5 minute goon is when the habs play emotional games against the leafs or bruins to fight their goons in attempts to sway momentum. But if he's taking the roster spot of a young prospect, or taking a contract spot that could be used on someone else... is it really worth it? I guess that's where opinions differ.
Morale boost knowing there's someone on their side that can goon it too. I am against goons playing a lot but there's no reason not to have one on the 23 man roster. Better than having Blunden/Kaberle sitting and doing nothing.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 11:29 AM
  #587
SouthernHab
Go Habs Go!
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Morale boost knowing there's someone on their side that can goon it too. I am against goons playing a lot but there's no reason not to have one on the 23 man roster. Better than having Blunden/Kaberle sitting and doing nothing.
Well said.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 11:48 AM
  #588
Ghetto Sangria
Pura Vida
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 4,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Morale boost knowing there's someone on their side that can goon it too. I am against goons playing a lot but there's no reason not to have one on the 23 man roster. Better than having Blunden/Kaberle sitting and doing nothing.
There definitely is something to that. If the habs have another "kaberle" type of 23rd man, I don't see a reason not to get a goon for the few games he'll be useful.

Ghetto Sangria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 11:57 AM
  #589
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
There's not much a 4-5 minute a night goon can do to stop a simmonds or Lucic or malone or whoever is terrorizing the habs undersized defence if they are never on the ice when these things happen. We saw that when The habs had laraque.

If the defence gets bigger and grittier, they will be able to stop that kind of intimidation.

The only use I see for a 4-5 minute goon is when the habs play emotional games against the leafs or bruins to fight their goons in attempts to sway momentum. But if he's taking the roster spot of a young prospect, or taking a contract spot that could be used on someone else... is it really worth it? I guess that's where opinions differ.
Laraque was a terrible "enforcer". Painting everybody like him makes no sense. A good enforcer will send a message if somebody is running his best/smaller players. Sometimes it calls for an extra 2 minutes here and there or running that team's best players. When Neal was after Gallagher, guys like Moen should have been getting after Karlsson Methot Anderson etc or getting after Neal.

Like I said earlier, that is a tone that is set during the season and then gets carried into the playoffs. Toronto's core is much softer than ours but they got 2-3 scrappers and they were not affraid to "send a message".

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 12:09 PM
  #590
Ghetto Sangria
Pura Vida
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 4,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Laraque was a terrible "enforcer". Painting everybody like him makes no sense. A good enforcer will send a message if somebody is running his best/smaller players. Sometimes it calls for an extra 2 minutes here and there or running that team's best players. When Neal was after Gallagher, guys like Moen should have been getting after Karlsson Methot Anderson etc or getting after Neal.

Like I said earlier, that is a tone that is set during the season and then gets carried into the playoffs. Toronto's core is much softer than ours but they got 2-3 scrappers and they were not affraid to "send a message".
and if the habs didn't respond to those sent messages, those 2-3 scrappers are useless. It's a fine line. Not every team will automatically play better when you add 2 or 3 scrappers.

Ghetto Sangria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 12:11 PM
  #591
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Ottawa got Kassian because Neil was KOed by Lucic. .
When did this happen? Pretty sure that's just your imagination running wild. I don't think Lucic ever knocked out Neil.

Dr Gonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 12:14 PM
  #592
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
and if the habs didn't respond to those sent messages, those 2-3 scrappers are useless. It's a fine line. Not every team will automatically play better when you add 2 or 3 scrappers.
There is no guarantee, but the risk of signing a guy like that for 2-3 years at 800k-1 mil is quite minimal. Cap wise there is virtually no risk.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 12:14 PM
  #593
Ghetto Sangria
Pura Vida
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 4,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
When did this happen? Pretty sure that's just your imagination running wild. I don't think Lucic ever knocked out Neil.
He never did. Neil is 6'1 and 215 pounds... the same size as shawn thronton with similar fighting ability. One hell of an effective enforcer.

Ghetto Sangria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 12:17 PM
  #594
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
When did this happen? Pretty sure that's just your imagination running wild. I don't think Lucic ever knocked out Neil.
I was just trying to get a reaction from someone and it didn't work.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 02:49 PM
  #595
SouthernHab
Go Habs Go!
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
and if the habs didn't respond to those sent messages, those 2-3 scrappers are useless. It's a fine line. Not every team will automatically play better when you add 2 or 3 scrappers.
I disagree. Look at Boston vs Buffalo.

Scott ko ing Thornton changed the entire dynamics between those two teams. Boston quickly abandoned the goonery with Scott dressed.

Scott delivered respect.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 03:01 PM
  #596
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I disagree. Look at Boston vs Buffalo.

Scott ko ing Thornton changed the entire dynamics between those two teams. Boston quickly abandoned the goonery with Scott dressed.

Scott delivered respect.
1) Boston was so much better than Buffalo that they didn't have to resort to gooning. 2) Having Scott on the Habs wouldn't have changed the outcome of the series with Ottawa. The Sens would simply have ignored him (that it, when they weren't taking advantage of his weaknesses.)

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 03:23 PM
  #597
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
1) Boston was so much better than Buffalo that they didn't have to resort to gooning. 2) Having Scott on the Habs wouldn't have changed the outcome of the series with Ottawa. The Sens would simply have ignored him (that it, when they weren't taking advantage of his weaknesses.)
Buffalo won the season series against Boston I think.

I agree as far as the playoffs. But I think in order to have team toughness, you need to have a guy that can protect the average sized guys from the Lucic's and Chara's. That starts during the season and is passed on to playoffs.

I think if Emelin Eller Pacioretty and Prust were healthy, the physical part of the Ottawa series would have been better...still wouldn't have fixed the goaltending problem at both ends, though Pacioretty Eller and Prust would ahve helped getting more traffic to Anderson.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 03:40 PM
  #598
Ghetto Sangria
Pura Vida
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 4,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I disagree. Look at Boston vs Buffalo.

Scott ko ing Thornton changed the entire dynamics between those two teams. Boston quickly abandoned the goonery with Scott dressed.

Scott delivered respect.
It definitely helped them gain some respect back, but what did it do for their season? The series between both teams were very close with Buffalo edging out that third win in shootout of their last meeting.

Like I mentioned before, there is a use in playing goons in rivalry matchups if they have goons as well, but that's all they are really useful for. They can sway momentum in a rivalry game and give a moral boost to a club that needs it.

They won't keep a chara or lucic honest though, because they can't do anything to them without putting their club in a bind. That's how MTL manages to beat the bruins more often than not. And on top of that, they only contribute 4-5 minutes of below average hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Buffalo won the season series against Boston I think.

I agree as far as the playoffs. But I think in order to have team toughness, you need to have a guy that can protect the average sized guys from the Lucic's and Chara's. That starts during the season and is passed on to playoffs.

I think if Emelin Eller Pacioretty and Prust were healthy, the physical part of the Ottawa series would have been better...still wouldn't have fixed the goaltending problem at both ends, though Pacioretty Eller and Prust would ahve helped getting more traffic to Anderson.
They won 2 games each in regulation and Buffalo won the last game in shootout. The habs won 3 and lost the 1st one (where the bruins didn't goon at all)

Ghetto Sangria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 03:55 PM
  #599
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Buffalo won the season series against Boston I think.

I agree as far as the playoffs. But I think in order to have team toughness, you need to have a guy that can protect the average sized guys from the Lucic's and Chara's. That starts during the season and is passed on to playoffs.

I think if Emelin Eller Pacioretty and Prust were healthy, the physical part of the Ottawa series would have been better...still wouldn't have fixed the goaltending problem at both ends, though Pacioretty Eller and Prust would ahve helped getting more traffic to Anderson.
We won the season series against Boston as well.

Sorinth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-21-2013, 04:04 PM
  #600
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 34,936
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
We won the season series against Boston as well.
I still want a guy in the lineup that will help prevent guys like Subban and Emelin from getting jumped EVEn at the expense of a few extra penalities.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.