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Old
05-21-2013, 05:45 PM
  #26
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
so he will miss 6 month for rehab and walk normally (then need another 3 month to renew skating abilities and maybe another 2 to be full shape IMHO). It's worst than Markov ... ouch ... we already be missing Gionta than this ... MB will have to make some call !
Huh?

They are talking 6 months to playing NHL hockey not walking. Some players make it back after 5, which would put him mid/late October.

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05-21-2013, 06:10 PM
  #27
Habitant le colon
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Huh?

They are talking 6 months to playing NHL hockey not walking. Some players make it back after 5, which would put him mid/late October.
Only overracting cuz we lost a whole year of Markov for a not so worst sugery ... here they will redo his knee having «ACL tear, MCL tear, and likely medial meniscal tear.» will lead to a longer re-hab IMHO!!

I prefer panic and see him come before 2014-15 season!!

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Old
05-21-2013, 06:16 PM
  #28
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Bergevin needs to pretend as if he's not coming back. That could take longer than 6 months. And he could comeback not exactly the same type of player. Emelin coming back will be like a UFA signing. But before we "sign" people, we need to prepare ourselves and build that D without him. If and when he comes back, let Bergevin make the appropriate changes. We need a better D. We need to help Price. People in Montreal will not permit him to be average at the start of the season.

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05-21-2013, 06:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'd rather have him miss 3-6 weeks to start the season than at the end.
What sucks about this is that he won't be able to train properly, he will miss training camp and beginning of season. He'll be a bit behind everyone all year. I'm not expecting big things from him next season. We really do need to find a replacement for next season and not count on Emelin.

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Old
05-21-2013, 06:43 PM
  #30
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Don't worry guys, there might be another lockout and the season could start late again!

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Old
05-21-2013, 06:54 PM
  #31
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Huge Blow the the Dcore but there is a silver lining in that MB will be forced to find a replacement. I think a progression of the Defence to a more physical, crease clearing identity is by far the most important change needed to further rebuilding our team. If we do find a good replacement (in terms of style at least), when Emelin returns we could have a balanced core with good depth. I really hope Boullion is 7D. IMO this is the true status of our Defence (the guys I expect to see this year anyway.

Subban #1 - Simply one of the best Dmen in the NHL at a young age. He can lead the TOI and the attack of this team, but he needs support.

Markov #2/3 - Declining but still very useful. His minutes need to be trimmed for stamina reasons, but he is a huge asset. Ideal on the second pairing.

Emelin #3/4 - Underrated in regards to his offense, Emelin has emerged as a top4 Dman. He should play the PP, but aside from that, he has all the physical skills and tools to be well-rounded. Can easily handle top pairing minutes with Subban. IMO this the Ideal 1st pair. Hard to tell where he'll be post-injury.

Gorges #4 - Had a bad year, but if he is used right he's a great #4. He needs to improve his decision making with the puck. His ability to clear the zone and possess the puck at the blue line simply have to be more competent. I found teams would force the puck to Gorges and cut off Subban, and it was effective. Gorges needs to develop quicker decision making, even if the right decisions for him are. With the right partner, he can be a successful #4, but Ideally he'd be great to see playing on the third pair in a shut-down role.
*Expendable (Due to depth, skillset and caphit)

Diaz #4 - Sort of the offensive Gorges, in the sense that he's a top4, but has holes in his game that he needs to round out to be effective (though he has way more value than JG). He obviously plays a big role of being the 2PP QB, but the main things against him are a lack of size, and lacking a strong enough positional game to overcome that (though he's not bad)
*Expendable (Due to lack of size, surplus of type, and trade value)

Tinordi #5 - Still skinny but IMO he looked like he should continue the next phase of development by sticking in the NHL. Depending on if he beefs up he could be a #4, but for now he's a bottom pairing guy. I love his stickwork and skating, right now he's a more mobile Hal Gill, and that's awesome. He also had some nice hits when he got more comfortable, and despite what some others may think, he is a guy who looks like he will develop a bit of a mean streak (Pronger-lite in that sense). Offensive ability is underrated as well.

Boullion #7 - Boullion has a pretty balanced set of skills but his size, age, and lack of exceptional talent makes him the 7D. Not too bad to have on the third pairing, but we've seen him play with Subban and log huge minutes. I don't like the idea of that for another year. I hope he sticks in the press box. Good depth.

I say we create a package which includes the offensive minded Diaz for the other side of the coin, a veteran, physical Dman who can log enough minutes to anchor Subban. Despite playing Subban's assignments, playing with PK will ease the load so it doesn't have to be a superstar.

While Emelin recovers:
Top4 Physical Dman-Subban
Markov-Tinordi/Gorges
Tinordi/Gorges-Boullion/XXX
XXX/Boullion

When Emelin returns:

Emelin-Subban
Markov-top4 dman
Gorges-Tinordi
Boullion

While the first Dcore still has Boullion playing regularly, the addition of a top4 dman would be enough for the team to whether the storm.

The healthy configuration is very strong. Emelin gets back to the left side, where he can hit more and use his fantastic skating to keep up with Subban and develop a two-way game. Markov gets his physical partner he requires and should improve his defensive play. Finally, Gorges-Tinordi is a very strong shut-down pair. Gorges has great will and shot blocking, and Tinordi is allowed to grow into a fuller game while filling Gill's shoes, using his reach and frame (but also superior mobility) to choke out defensive assignments' attack. This also reduces harsh assignment minutes from Markov, giving the General more opportunities on the attack.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:01 PM
  #32
Habitant le colon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
Huge Blow the the Dcore but there is a silver lining in that MB will be forced to find a replacement. I think a progression of the Defence to a more physical, crease clearing identity is by far the most important change needed to further rebuilding our team. If we do find a good replacement (in terms of style at least), when Emelin returns we could have a balanced core with good depth. I really hope Boullion is 7D. IMO this is the true status of our Defence (the guys I expect to see this year anyway.

Subban #1 - Simply one of the best Dmen in the NHL at a young age. He can lead the TOI and the attack of this team, but he needs support.

Markov #2/3 - Declining but still very useful. His minutes need to be trimmed for stamina reasons, but he is a huge asset. Ideal on the second pairing.

Emelin #3/4 - Underrated in regards to his offense, Emelin has emerged as a top4 Dman. He should play the PP, but aside from that, he has all the physical skills and tools to be well-rounded. Can easily handle top pairing minutes with Subban. IMO this the Ideal 1st pair. Hard to tell where he'll be post-injury.

Gorges #4 - Had a bad year, but if he is used right he's a great #4. He needs to improve his decision making with the puck. His ability to clear the zone and possess the puck at the blue line simply have to be more competent. I found teams would force the puck to Gorges and cut off Subban, and it was effective. Gorges needs to develop quicker decision making, even if the right decisions for him are. With the right partner, he can be a successful #4, but Ideally he'd be great to see playing on the third pair in a shut-down role.
*Expendable (Due to depth, skillset and caphit)

Diaz #4 - Sort of the offensive Gorges, in the sense that he's a top4, but has holes in his game that he needs to round out to be effective (though he has way more value than JG). He obviously plays a big role of being the 2PP QB, but the main things against him are a lack of size, and lacking a strong enough positional game to overcome that (though he's not bad)
*Expendable (Due to lack of size, surplus of type, and trade value)

Tinordi #5 - Still skinny but IMO he looked like he should continue the next phase of development by sticking in the NHL. Depending on if he beefs up he could be a #4, but for now he's a bottom pairing guy. I love his stickwork and skating, right now he's a more mobile Hal Gill, and that's awesome. He also had some nice hits when he got more comfortable, and despite what some others may think, he is a guy who looks like he will develop a bit of a mean streak (Pronger-lite in that sense). Offensive ability is underrated as well.

Boullion #7 - Boullion has a pretty balanced set of skills but his size, age, and lack of exceptional talent makes him the 7D. Not too bad to have on the third pairing, but we've seen him play with Subban and log huge minutes. I don't like the idea of that for another year. I hope he sticks in the press box. Good depth.

I say we create a package which includes the offensive minded Diaz for the other side of the coin, a veteran, physical Dman who can log enough minutes to anchor Subban. Despite playing Subban's assignments, playing with PK will ease the load so it doesn't have to be a superstar.

While Emelin recovers:
Top4 Physical Dman-Subban
Markov-Tinordi/Gorges
Tinordi/Gorges-Boullion/XXX
XXX/Boullion

When Emelin returns:

Emelin-Subban
Markov-top4 dman
Gorges-Tinordi
Boullion

While the first Dcore still has Boullion playing regularly, the addition of a top4 dman would be enough for the team to whether the storm.

The healthy configuration is very strong. Emelin gets back to the left side, where he can hit more and use his fantastic skating to keep up with Subban and develop a two-way game. Markov gets his physical partner he requires and should improve his defensive play. Finally, Gorges-Tinordi is a very strong shut-down pair. Gorges has great will and shot blocking, and Tinordi is allowed to grow into a fuller game while filling Gill's shoes, using his reach and frame (but also superior mobility) to choke out defensive assignments' attack. This also reduces harsh assignment minutes from Markov, giving the General more opportunities on the attack.
MB is that U ???? wow so accurate et so well.!

Name a d-man in the NHL that will fit that role

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:18 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
Huge Blow the the Dcore but there is a silver lining in that MB will be forced to find a replacement. I think a progression of the Defence to a more physical, crease clearing identity is by far the most important change needed to further rebuilding our team. If we do find a good replacement (in terms of style at least), when Emelin returns we could have a balanced core with good depth. I really hope Boullion is 7D. IMO this is the true status of our Defence (the guys I expect to see this year anyway.

Subban #1 - Simply one of the best Dmen in the NHL at a young age. He can lead the TOI and the attack of this team, but he needs support.

Markov #2/3 - Declining but still very useful. His minutes need to be trimmed for stamina reasons, but he is a huge asset. Ideal on the second pairing.

Emelin #3/4 - Underrated in regards to his offense, Emelin has emerged as a top4 Dman. He should play the PP, but aside from that, he has all the physical skills and tools to be well-rounded. Can easily handle top pairing minutes with Subban. IMO this the Ideal 1st pair. Hard to tell where he'll be post-injury.

Gorges #4 - Had a bad year, but if he is used right he's a great #4. He needs to improve his decision making with the puck. His ability to clear the zone and possess the puck at the blue line simply have to be more competent. I found teams would force the puck to Gorges and cut off Subban, and it was effective. Gorges needs to develop quicker decision making, even if the right decisions for him are. With the right partner, he can be a successful #4, but Ideally he'd be great to see playing on the third pair in a shut-down role.
*Expendable (Due to depth, skillset and caphit)

Diaz #4 - Sort of the offensive Gorges, in the sense that he's a top4, but has holes in his game that he needs to round out to be effective (though he has way more value than JG). He obviously plays a big role of being the 2PP QB, but the main things against him are a lack of size, and lacking a strong enough positional game to overcome that (though he's not bad)
*Expendable (Due to lack of size, surplus of type, and trade value)

Tinordi #5 - Still skinny but IMO he looked like he should continue the next phase of development by sticking in the NHL. Depending on if he beefs up he could be a #4, but for now he's a bottom pairing guy. I love his stickwork and skating, right now he's a more mobile Hal Gill, and that's awesome. He also had some nice hits when he got more comfortable, and despite what some others may think, he is a guy who looks like he will develop a bit of a mean streak (Pronger-lite in that sense). Offensive ability is underrated as well.

Boullion #7 - Boullion has a pretty balanced set of skills but his size, age, and lack of exceptional talent makes him the 7D. Not too bad to have on the third pairing, but we've seen him play with Subban and log huge minutes. I don't like the idea of that for another year. I hope he sticks in the press box. Good depth.

I say we create a package which includes the offensive minded Diaz for the other side of the coin, a veteran, physical Dman who can log enough minutes to anchor Subban. Despite playing Subban's assignments, playing with PK will ease the load so it doesn't have to be a superstar.

While Emelin recovers:
Top4 Physical Dman-Subban
Markov-Tinordi/Gorges
Tinordi/Gorges-Boullion/XXX
XXX/Boullion

When Emelin returns:

Emelin-Subban
Markov-top4 dman
Gorges-Tinordi
Boullion

While the first Dcore still has Boullion playing regularly, the addition of a top4 dman would be enough for the team to whether the storm.

The healthy configuration is very strong. Emelin gets back to the left side, where he can hit more and use his fantastic skating to keep up with Subban and develop a two-way game. Markov gets his physical partner he requires and should improve his defensive play. Finally, Gorges-Tinordi is a very strong shut-down pair. Gorges has great will and shot blocking, and Tinordi is allowed to grow into a fuller game while filling Gill's shoes, using his reach and frame (but also superior mobility) to choke out defensive assignments' attack. This also reduces harsh assignment minutes from Markov, giving the General more opportunities on the attack.
If Tinordi regresses, and every other player is constant, our blueline is going to blow something awful. This team always relies on players getting better, when in fact they usually don't on our backend. Gorges isn't going to improve much , why do we even expect more? Markov is slowing down... and Boullion isn't a spring chicken.

We have an small, aging blueline that is being asked to play a style we simply cannot do. Subban is the only ace in the hole.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:22 PM
  #34
StellerEller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
MB is that U ???? wow so accurate et so well.!

Name a d-man in the NHL that will fit that role
My post was dealing with an ideal situation. I'm not saying the scenario I'm presenting is easy or even likely. There obviously has to be a trading partner in this scenario, and a proper Diaz package that is worth it for MB. There's little doubt in my mind that MB will go after a replacement of some sort. There are plenty of NHL Dmen that can fill the role of replacement for Emelin. I'm sure if there was interest in Diaz, a team could bite and trade us a stay at home, physical guy.

I could name some but it's hard to say who is available and who is affordable.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:23 PM
  #35
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[QUOTE=StellerEller;66393011]Huge Blow the the Dcore but there is a silver lining in that MB will be forced to find a replacement. I think a progression of the Defence to a more physical, crease clearing identity is by far the most important change needed to further rebuilding our team. If we do find a good replacement (in terms of style at least), when Emelin returns we could have a balanced core with good depth. I really hope Boullion is 7D. IMO this is the true status of our Defence (the guys I expect to see this year anyway.

Subban #1 - Simply one of the best Dmen in the NHL at a young age. He can lead the TOI and the attack of this team, but he needs support.

SUPERSTAR AND FRANCHISE D

Markov #2/3 - Declining but still very useful. His minutes need to be trimmed for stamina reasons, but he is a huge asset. Ideal on the second pairing.

one more year and then see ya later

Emelin #3/4 - Underrated in regards to his offense, Emelin has emerged as a top4 Dman. He should play the PP, but aside from that, he has all the physical skills and tools to be well-rounded. Can easily handle top pairing minutes with Subban. IMO this the Ideal 1st pair. Hard to tell where he'll be post-injury.

legit Sidenberg type 3/4 is correct , but next year will be a write off , by the time he gets back and plays well it maybe January

Gorges #4 - Had a bad year, but if he is used right he's a great #4. He needs to improve his decision making with the puck. His ability to clear the zone and possess the puck at the blue line simply have to be more competent. I found teams would force the puck to Gorges and cut off Subban, and it was effective. Gorges needs to develop quicker decision making, even if the right decisions for him are. With the right partner, he can be a successful #4, but Ideally he'd be great to see playing on the third pair in a shut-down role.
*Expendable (Due to depth, skillset and caphit)

agreed expendable , smallish but overrated and had a poor year

Diaz #4 - Sort of the offensive Gorges, in the sense that he's a top4, but has holes in his game that he needs to round out to be effective (though he has way more value than JG). He obviously plays a big role of being the 2PP QB, but the main things against him are a lack of size, and lacking a strong enough positional game to overcome that (though he's not bad)
*Expendable (Due to lack of size, surplus of type, and trade value)

GARBAGE IN THE PLAYOFFS .. u can live with him in the regualr season
needs to go , cant win with him

Tinordi #5 - Still skinny but IMO he looked like he should continue the next phase of development by sticking in the NHL. Depending on if he beefs up he could be a #4, but for now he's a bottom pairing guy. I love his stickwork and skating, right now he's a more mobile Hal Gill, and that's awesome. He also had some nice hits when he got more comfortable, and despite what some others may think, he is a guy who looks like he will develop a bit of a mean streak (Pronger-lite in that sense). Offensive ability is underrated as well.

future 4/5 , needs top get bigger and stronger but solid

Boullion #7 - Boullion has a pretty balanced set of skills but his size, age, and lack of exceptional talent makes him the 7D. Not too bad to have on the third pairing, but we've seen him play with Subban and log huge minutes. I don't like the idea of that for another year. I hope he sticks in the press box. Good depth.

WASTE OF SPACE , depth 7th guy , but useless

I say we create a package which includes the offensive minded Diaz for the other side of the coin, a veteran, physical Dman who can log enough minutes to anchor Subban. Despite playing Subban's assignments, playing with PK will ease the load so it doesn't have to be a superstar.

Dias is worth a bag of doritos ina trade , no one wants small finesse players

we need Nathamn and Patweyn to step in at some point

good thing is cap goes down , should be mant bluleliners available via trade

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:27 PM
  #36
StellerEller
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If Tinordi regresses, and every other player is constant, our blueline is going to blow something awful. This team always relies on players getting better, when in fact they usually don't on our backend. Gorges isn't going to improve much , why do we even expect more? Markov is slowing down... and Boullion isn't a spring chicken.

We have an small, aging blueline that is being asked to play a style we simply cannot do.
I've addressed some of the things you've pointed out, but I don't think Tinordi would regress in a bottom-pairing role. What I said about Gorges is valid. He simply has to get the puck away faster before he gets cornered. I'm not suggesting he could improve his point shot, for example. It's not about production, it's about his decision making, something that can be improved even when someone isn't a rookie anymore.

As for Markov and Boullion, I agree. That's why I'm advocating trading Diaz to fill our need for an Emelin replacement. I don't want to see Boullion dressed frankly. And I still think Markov is an asset but like my post said I would like to see his TOI reduced and his minutes more catered to Ozone starts.

I think you and I agree on more things than you may realize.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:30 PM
  #37
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[QUOTE=onemorecup;66395093]
Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
Huge Blow the the Dcore but there is a silver lining in that MB will be forced to find a replacement. I think a progression of the Defence to a more physical, crease clearing identity is by far the most important change needed to further rebuilding our team. If we do find a good replacement (in terms of style at least), when Emelin returns we could have a balanced core with good depth. I really hope Boullion is 7D. IMO this is the true status of our Defence (the guys I expect to see this year anyway.

Subban #1 - Simply one of the best Dmen in the NHL at a young age. He can lead the TOI and the attack of this team, but he needs support.

SUPERSTAR AND FRANCHISE D

Markov #2/3 - Declining but still very useful. His minutes need to be trimmed for stamina reasons, but he is a huge asset. Ideal on the second pairing.

one more year and then see ya later

Emelin #3/4 - Underrated in regards to his offense, Emelin has emerged as a top4 Dman. He should play the PP, but aside from that, he has all the physical skills and tools to be well-rounded. Can easily handle top pairing minutes with Subban. IMO this the Ideal 1st pair. Hard to tell where he'll be post-injury.

legit Sidenberg type 3/4 is correct , but next year will be a write off , by the time he gets back and plays well it maybe January

Gorges #4 - Had a bad year, but if he is used right he's a great #4. He needs to improve his decision making with the puck. His ability to clear the zone and possess the puck at the blue line simply have to be more competent. I found teams would force the puck to Gorges and cut off Subban, and it was effective. Gorges needs to develop quicker decision making, even if the right decisions for him are. With the right partner, he can be a successful #4, but Ideally he'd be great to see playing on the third pair in a shut-down role.
*Expendable (Due to depth, skillset and caphit)

agreed expendable , smallish but overrated and had a poor year

Diaz #4 - Sort of the offensive Gorges, in the sense that he's a top4, but has holes in his game that he needs to round out to be effective (though he has way more value than JG). He obviously plays a big role of being the 2PP QB, but the main things against him are a lack of size, and lacking a strong enough positional game to overcome that (though he's not bad)
*Expendable (Due to lack of size, surplus of type, and trade value)

GARBAGE IN THE PLAYOFFS .. u can live with him in the regualr season
needs to go , cant win with him

Tinordi #5 - Still skinny but IMO he looked like he should continue the next phase of development by sticking in the NHL. Depending on if he beefs up he could be a #4, but for now he's a bottom pairing guy. I love his stickwork and skating, right now he's a more mobile Hal Gill, and that's awesome. He also had some nice hits when he got more comfortable, and despite what some others may think, he is a guy who looks like he will develop a bit of a mean streak (Pronger-lite in that sense). Offensive ability is underrated as well.

future 4/5 , needs top get bigger and stronger but solid

Boullion #7 - Boullion has a pretty balanced set of skills but his size, age, and lack of exceptional talent makes him the 7D. Not too bad to have on the third pairing, but we've seen him play with Subban and log huge minutes. I don't like the idea of that for another year. I hope he sticks in the press box. Good depth.

WASTE OF SPACE , depth 7th guy , but useless

I say we create a package which includes the offensive minded Diaz for the other side of the coin, a veteran, physical Dman who can log enough minutes to anchor Subban. Despite playing Subban's assignments, playing with PK will ease the load so it doesn't have to be a superstar.

Dias is worth a bag of doritos ina trade , no one wants small finesse players

we need Nathamn and Patweyn to step in at some point

good thing is cap goes down , should be mant bluleliners available via trade
Disagree about Diaz. Many NHL teams need offense on their back end, and can afford to have a small guy on the blueline (especially since his role would be smaller on teams other than the habs). Diaz (more importantly a Diaz+ package) holds plenty of value. We could have some good offers for him.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:32 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CHwest View Post
How bad was Komo for the leafs? Was it a matter of not playing him to but him out ala Gomez, or was he that bad?
Hard to tell... he only played 4 games at 15 minutes per game with the Leafs, then 7 regular season games and 6 playoff games with the Marlies.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
I've addressed some of the things you've pointed out, but I don't think Tinordi would regress in a bottom-pairing role. What I said about Gorges is valid. He simply has to get the puck away faster before he gets cornered. I'm not suggesting he could improve his point shot, for example. It's not about production, it's about his decision making, something that can be improved even when someone isn't a rookie anymore.

As for Markov and Boullion, I agree. That's why I'm advocating trading Diaz to fill our need for an Emelin replacement. I don't want to see Boullion dressed frankly. And I still think Markov is an asset but like my post said I would like to see his TOI reduced and his minutes more catered to Ozone starts.

I think you and I agree on more things than you may realize.
I haven't see the FA list for this year to see if there is any possible help on the horizon if he choses that route. With the cap going down, I'm not sure how much room we even have left after the Gomez contract is gone?

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:26 PM
  #40
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Why would anyone want to trade Diaz?? Yes, we can get really good trade value for him - that's because he has really good value, period. Stop fixating on the rusty version of Diaz we saw after coming back from a long injury. This is a very solid top-four D who skates, moves the puck, has a great shot and can play both PP and PK roles. He and Emelin made major leaps last season and were big reasons why the Habs had such a great start. We need a heavyweight upgrade for Bouillon - who played well but is a diminishing return - and we need a more-confident Tinordi. Gorges gets a takeover for a weak year, but his game needs to pick up.

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05-21-2013, 08:33 PM
  #41
otto bond
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[QUOTE=StellerEller;66395453]
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post

Disagree about Diaz. Many NHL teams need offense on their back end, and can afford to have a small guy on the blueline (especially since his role would be smaller on teams other than the habs). Diaz (more importantly a Diaz+ package) holds plenty of value. We could have some good offers for him.
I only hope you are correct.
I'm not sure what kind of GM we have, but he is moving towards youth....big time. I also think that Markov could be moved by MB. I only hope it's a better trade then the Cole one. I called that one a safe trade, both team wins there and then. IMO, Cole asked for a trade but that's me, it's a gut feeling.
Adding nothing at the dead line was also a bit disapointing but understand his move or lack of.

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05-21-2013, 09:49 PM
  #42
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This is really bad news, especially considering how the Habs went down in the playoffs. I'm afraid Bergevin's hand will be forced. Adding Tinordi won't be enough to repair the D, so he'll have to go into trade/free agent mode. (Waiting for Emelin's return is risky because it could keep the Habs from getting off to a good start.) Whatever MB gives up would subtract from the assets he could use to improve the the forward positions.

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05-21-2013, 10:46 PM
  #43
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Bergevin needs to pretend as if he's not coming back. That could take longer than 6 months. And he could comeback not exactly the same type of player. Emelin coming back will be like a UFA signing. But before we "sign" people, we need to prepare ourselves and build that D without him. If and when he comes back, let Bergevin make the appropriate changes. We need a better D. We need to help Price. People in Montreal will not permit him to be average at the start of the season.
yeah but i still don't want bergy to go and trade significant futures for that immediate help. which is a kind of paradox i know, but surprising standing position aside, we are still rebuilding, remember when we were supposed to pick top 5 again?

if bergevin can trade something from our roster, or from our position of strength (or things we have too much of, lolsmallpeople) - whatever that is - for defensive help, then sure, i just have a really hard time seeing that happen as i don't think we have a position of strength yet... do we?

edit: to clarify, diaz, dd et cie are expandable, i just doubt they will net the return we need to solidify this d corp(se). i just don't want bergy to go overboard and forget what the plan was a year ago

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05-21-2013, 11:00 PM
  #44
StellerEller
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I haven't see the FA list for this year to see if there is any possible help on the horizon if he choses that route. With the cap going down, I'm not sure how much room we even have left after the Gomez contract is gone?
The cap might be a tight squeeze but regardless, it's highly unlikely a move isn't made in some way to replace Emelin.


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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Why would anyone want to trade Diaz?? Yes, we can get really good trade value for him - that's because he has really good value, period. Stop fixating on the rusty version of Diaz we saw after coming back from a long injury. This is a very solid top-four D who skates, moves the puck, has a great shot and can play both PP and PK roles. He and Emelin made major leaps last season and were big reasons why the Habs had such a great start. We need a heavyweight upgrade for Bouillon - who played well but is a diminishing return - and we need a more-confident Tinordi. Gorges gets a takeover for a weak year, but his game needs to pick up.
I like Diaz. I agree with your evaluation but he is simply an asset we can afford to move. Remove Diaz, and we have plenty of PMD (two of which are above him in the depth chart already) and in return we can upgrade our Dcore by gaining a quality physical Dman and diversifying our Dcore. Diaz is an asset, but IMO I think his value is better served by flipping him for a need than keeping him and sitting on a surplus of small, offensive Dmen. Diaz would fit well on other teams that can insulate him properly to maximize his effectiveness. On Montreal, he'd be asked to do too much without a proper kind of partner that he would need.

As for Boullion, he's the 7D. Obviously we'd like to upgrade him, but we can't trade Boullion, Weber,etc and expect a quality Dman coming back. We should trade Diaz because it will better the club as a whole, especially if the Dman we get back sticks when Emelin returns, bumping Boullion to the press box. Tinordi, as I've said, will be fine on the 3rd pairing. Gorges should bounce back, I doubt he's as bad as he was this year.

We'd have 4 physical Dmen (Subban, Tinordi, Emelin, New guy)
1 "neutral" Dman (Gorges)
1 non-physical Dman (Markov)

The thing about defence is that we can only dress 6 guys. We can't afford to use a spot on Diaz when we're soft already. Other teams have that luxury.

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05-22-2013, 07:48 AM
  #45
Ceux de Montreal
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We need Mark Streit back.

Perfect dream scenario even though I like those two and wish we could keep them is:

- Trade Gorges and Diaz for Edler
- Sign Streit

And ride this blueline next year:

Streit - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Edler - Tinordi

Unfortunately, there's only one right-handed defenceman on the lot. So it might not work. Whatever, fantaisies.

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05-22-2013, 08:10 AM
  #46
JGRB
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
We need Mark Streit back.

Perfect dream scenario even though I like those two and wish we could keep them is:

- Trade Gorges and Diaz for Edler
- Sign Streit

And ride this blueline next year:

Streit - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Edler - Tinordi

Unfortunately, there's only one right-handed defenceman on the lot. So it might not work. Whatever, fantaisies.
Seems like a log jam of A1 puck movers to me.

I'm wondering if Bergevin might consider moving Markov instead of a guy like Diaz. He's a proven commodity around the league and he had a great bounce back year, he might fetch us a really good young player that'll fit more into our future vision.

Diaz was bad after his return from concussion but he was probably our second best D-man behind Subban up until his injury. It's hard to take such a small sample serious though. I'd only advocate shipping Markov if we were getting a real solid promising young player in return.

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05-22-2013, 09:28 AM
  #47
Joe Cole
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One big problem on this team for the past few years has been the D. I was amazed this year when many experts were saying that the Habs had a great D corps. The re-addition of a recovered Markov did not make this group dominant.

A good D group needs a few elements.
#1. Minute eater, solid D, carries the puck, effective offensively. PP trigger man.
#2. Physical, strong on D. Knows when to step up, or pass.
#3. Puck mover. Second PP trigger.
#4. Size, mobility, mean streak, shot blocker.
#5. All around D. Shot blocker.
#6. Size, and dependable on D

Now, affix a dollar amount to each role, and then see if your personnel fits. If not, built towards that.

I think Subban, and Tinordi are the building blocks. Maybe Beaulieu too. Everyone else is just a band aid until you reach your goal.

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05-22-2013, 09:36 AM
  #48
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
One big problem on this team for the past few years has been the D. I was amazed this year when many experts were saying that the Habs had a great D corps. The re-addition of a recovered Markov did not make this group dominant.

A good D group needs a few elements.
#1. Minute eater, solid D, carries the puck, effective offensively. PP trigger man.
#2. Physical, strong on D. Knows when to step up, or pass.
#3. Puck mover. Second PP trigger.
#4. Size, mobility, mean streak, shot blocker.
#5. All around D. Shot blocker.
#6. Size, and dependable on D

Now, affix a dollar amount to each role, and then see if your personnel fits. If not, built towards that.

I think Subban, and Tinordi are the building blocks. Maybe Beaulieu too. Everyone else is just a band aid until you reach your goal.
While it's good to have a plan/blueprint. You can't have a plan that is that rigid simply because the personnel to fill those holes may or may not be available, or may come at a huge cost.

Teams have a different mix and still win the cup...Boston had a blueline that was big on size and weak in puck movers, LA and Chicago had highly skilled bluelines built around smaller, more skilled puck movers.

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05-22-2013, 10:32 AM
  #49
doug88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
We need Mark Streit back.

Perfect dream scenario even though I like those two and wish we could keep them is:

- Trade Gorges and Diaz for Edler
- Sign Streit

And ride this blueline next year:

Streit - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Edler - Tinordi

Unfortunately, there's only one right-handed defenceman on the lot. So it might not work. Whatever, fantaisies.
No way Streit comes back to Montreal!! Even for $100 mio! He's not crazy

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05-22-2013, 11:00 AM
  #50
Jack Bourdain
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This is good, hopefully we will develop depth.

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