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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part 4: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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05-21-2013, 11:34 AM
  #551
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Point being that he's not going to get a big contract and that Detroit is still going to benefit from this.

I don't view Smith as a great defensive prospect and the comparisons between him and Schenn are unfair comparisons because Schenn is close to being an elite shut down guy while Smith is more of a two way guy.
I'm not denying the fact that he won't get a huge bridge contract. I'm pointing out that the low ELC years were wasted away in the AHL while he was developing into just being able to handle the NHL as a defenseman. So Detroit gets a 4 year benefit of a low bridge contract where Smith STILL most likely won't hit his prime years and will still have more growing pains. Then assuming he fully develops, Detroit has to give him ANOTHER contract at an UFA rate to cover his prime years.

Whereas, using Couturier as an example. The Flyers get the benefit of his ELC in the NHL where it matters because of the salary cap. He will also get a low bridge contract and will hit his prime years DURING the bridge. Then the Flyers can either re-sign a potentially declining asset or trade high (like Richards/Carter).

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05-21-2013, 12:24 PM
  #552
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Another voice of dissent to the notion of shying away from using early picks on a defenseman. Not only does this mean that a team is constantly overpaying for talented Dmen, but it also weakens the organization developmentally as a whole. The expected assembly line of talent is draft --> minor-league affiliate --> NHL squad. This both allows the big club to keep a close eye on the developing talent of their prospects while integrating them into a franchise playing strategy. Here's my half-baked pet theory:

Logically, a strong all-around AHL team will favourably promote a player's development to maximize his talent potential. If a team is top-heavy with one position, however, it may well lead to insufficient ice time for some deserving individuals. As well, lack of equivalent talent among the 3 positions – forward, defense and goal – risks blunting talent advancement for the others. For example, a star-in-the-making forward who always plays with inferior defensemen could receive lower offensive support (good passes, shots from the point to pounce on rebounds, etc.) as well as more time devoted to defensive play. By extension, there is a risk that the player loses confidence in the system and tries to do too much on his own.

The latter isn't 100% a bad thing because that in itself can force a player to push himself further than his talent would allow; however, in a team game, completely individual efforts are largely overshadowed by interacting well with teammates. They look great on the Highlights of the Night, but in the long run a team usually beats a group of individuals.

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05-21-2013, 03:12 PM
  #553
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What is this love for Pulock? He is the next Alex Plante. Absolute pylon. Remember in the Mighty Ducks movie the big kid who could not skate but had the booming shot?
Well that is Pulock. I am not sold on Nurse or Risto either. Did any of you see any of the SSM games??? I think Lindholm will fall to 11th and would you take him???? And for drafting, Taylor Leier in last year's 4th round is an absolute steal......NHL 3rd line....Mat Read with snarl......I think last night he was 1st star in the Memorial Cup game between London [Horvat and Domi] and Portland [ Seth Jones' team]. The guys I am rooting for are Josh Morrissey or Sam Morin in the 1st and Dillon Heatherington in the 2nd. M-O Roy in 3rd. But all three might be gone before we even get the chance. But hey I am not Paul Holmgren and I do not have the whole picture of what is going through his brain at this moment EXCEPT the depressing thought that Detroit is fast, big, can play defense and score sick goals and thinking to himself.... how in the world can we catch up to them???? And oh yeah Detroit has a goalie that can actually stop pucks.......

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05-21-2013, 03:25 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by macleish1974 View Post
What is this love for Pulock? He is the next Alex Plante. Absolute pylon. Remember in the Mighty Ducks movie the big kid who could not skate but had the booming shot?
Well that is Pulock. I am not sold on Nurse or Risto either. Did any of you see any of the SSM games??? I think Lindholm will fall to 11th and would you take him???? And for drafting, Taylor Leier in last year's 4th round is an absolute steal......NHL 3rd line....Mat Read with snarl......I think last night he was 1st star in the Memorial Cup game between London [Horvat and Domi] and Portland [ Seth Jones' team]. The guys I am rooting for are Josh Morrissey or Sam Morin in the 1st and Dillon Heatherington in the 2nd. M-O Roy in 3rd. But all three might be gone before we even get the chance. But hey I am not Paul Holmgren and I do not have the whole picture of what is going through his brain at this moment EXCEPT the depressing thought that Detroit is fast, big, can play defense and score sick goals and thinking to himself.... how in the world can we catch up to them???? And oh yeah Detroit has a goalie that can actually stop pucks.......
I dont think you have to worry about Morrissey or Morin not being there at 11. Even if their not means 2 teams picked them up early making other players drop.

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05-21-2013, 03:55 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by macleish1974 View Post
What is this love for Pulock? He is the next Alex Plante. Absolute pylon. Remember in the Mighty Ducks movie the big kid who could not skate but had the booming shot?
Well that is Pulock. I am not sold on Nurse or Risto either. Did any of you see any of the SSM games??? I think Lindholm will fall to 11th and would you take him???? And for drafting, Taylor Leier in last year's 4th round is an absolute steal......NHL 3rd line....Mat Read with snarl......I think last night he was 1st star in the Memorial Cup game between London [Horvat and Domi] and Portland [ Seth Jones' team]. The guys I am rooting for are Josh Morrissey or Sam Morin in the 1st and Dillon Heatherington in the 2nd. M-O Roy in 3rd. But all three might be gone before we even get the chance. But hey I am not Paul Holmgren and I do not have the whole picture of what is going through his brain at this moment EXCEPT the depressing thought that Detroit is fast, big, can play defense and score sick goals and thinking to himself.... how in the world can we catch up to them???? And oh yeah Detroit has a goalie that can actually stop pucks.......

I agree. Pulock is going to be a 3rd pairing, 1st unit pp defenseman. He is slow as hell , not very good laterally and not big enough to make up for his lack of skating.

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05-21-2013, 04:01 PM
  #556
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Slower than Luke Schenn?

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05-21-2013, 04:55 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by macleish1974 View Post
What is this love for Pulock? He is the next Alex Plante. Absolute pylon. Remember in the Mighty Ducks movie the big kid who could not skate but had the booming shot?
Well that is Pulock. I am not sold on Nurse or Risto either. Did any of you see any of the SSM games??? I think Lindholm will fall to 11th and would you take him???? And for drafting, Taylor Leier in last year's 4th round is an absolute steal......NHL 3rd line....Mat Read with snarl......I think last night he was 1st star in the Memorial Cup game between London [Horvat and Domi] and Portland [ Seth Jones' team]. The guys I am rooting for are Josh Morrissey or Sam Morin in the 1st and Dillon Heatherington in the 2nd. M-O Roy in 3rd. But all three might be gone before we even get the chance. But hey I am not Paul Holmgren and I do not have the whole picture of what is going through his brain at this moment EXCEPT the depressing thought that Detroit is fast, big, can play defense and score sick goals and thinking to himself.... how in the world can we catch up to them???? And oh yeah Detroit has a goalie that can actually stop pucks.......
After reading Anthony San Fillipo's article, gut feeling says that it won't be a defenseman they're picking in the first. Call it a hunch, but it's either going to be Shinkaruk or Horvat.

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05-21-2013, 05:23 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
After reading Anthony San Fillipo's article, gut feeling says that it won't be a defenseman they're picking in the first. Call it a hunch, but it's either going to be Shinkaruk or Horvat.
I'd be very happy with either of those two, I'd like Risto or Nurse if they're still on the board though.

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05-21-2013, 05:26 PM
  #559
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I'd be very happy with either of those two, I'd like Risto or Nurse if they're still on the board though.
I have 1 easy answer for Philly if they trying hard to decide if they should pick a forward or defenseman.

Zach Fucale. lol

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05-21-2013, 05:27 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
After reading Anthony San Fillipo's article, gut feeling says that it won't be a defenseman they're picking in the first. Call it a hunch, but it's either going to be Shinkaruk or Horvat.
I would prefer Horvat over Shinkaruk. Then take a defensemen in the second round like McCoshen, Bowey, or Subban etc.


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05-21-2013, 05:36 PM
  #561
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I have 1 easy answer for Philly if they trying hard to decide if they should pick a forward or defenseman.

Zach Fucale. lol
That's probably the only pick they could make that would piss me off.

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05-21-2013, 05:41 PM
  #562
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I have 1 easy answer for Philly if they trying hard to decide if they should pick a forward or defenseman.

Zach Fucale. lol
No, he's overrated as hell.

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05-21-2013, 06:34 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
After reading Anthony San Fillipo's article, gut feeling says that it won't be a defenseman they're picking in the first. Call it a hunch, but it's either going to be Shinkaruk or Horvat.
Thus completing the ginger hat trick. I wouldn't be shocked to see them reach for Mantha or Gauthier either.

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05-21-2013, 07:12 PM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
After reading Anthony San Fillipo's article, gut feeling says that it won't be a defenseman they're picking in the first. Call it a hunch, but it's either going to be Shinkaruk or Horvat.
Long time flyers fan. 1st post. Just wanna comment that I too think it will be a forward like Horvat. But after his recent playoff performance, I wonder how high his stock has risen.

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05-21-2013, 07:55 PM
  #565
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Possible forwards: Shinkaruk, Domi, Horvat, Mantha, Wennberg, Zykov, Lazar, Gauthier? ...

Remember 2003? Jeff Carter was ranked 27th by the ISS, Richards was ranked 30th. Perry, Weber, Burns, Backes and several other stars were ranked even lower than they were.

To be honest, I trust the Flyers scouts probably more than I trust any other teams (except perhaps Detroit) ... I'm sure whoever they pick will be a fantastic prospect.

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05-21-2013, 08:22 PM
  #566
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Long time flyers fan. 1st post. Just wanna comment that I too think it will be a forward like Horvat. But after his recent playoff performance, I wonder how high his stock has risen.
4th post, and two of them are from 2004 if I saw correctly lol. Welcome aboard though!

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05-21-2013, 08:31 PM
  #567
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Possible forwards: Shinkaruk, Domi, Horvat, Mantha, Wennberg, Zykov, Lazar, Gauthier? ...

Remember 2003? Jeff Carter was ranked 27th by the ISS, Richards was ranked 30th. Perry, Weber, Burns, Backes and several other stars were ranked even lower than they were.

To be honest, I trust the Flyers scouts probably more than I trust any other teams (except perhaps Detroit) ... I'm sure whoever they pick will be a fantastic prospect.
I don't really get this myth that Detroit has some great scouting staff. I think people tend to overrate them because of Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I mean don't get me wrong they were incredible finds but they were more than a decade ago. Their recent drafts haven't been that phenomenal.

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05-21-2013, 08:41 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by flyersfan02 View Post
Long time flyers fan. 1st post. Just wanna comment that I too think it will be a forward like Horvat. But after his recent playoff performance, I wonder how high his stock has risen.
I wouldn't be surprised if Horvat goes higher than Monahan, who has been out of the scouts eyes for awhile. The Flyers might have no option but a defensemen at 11. I think it's possible that there will be a run on forwards after Seth Jones, with as many as 8 going in a row: Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Nichushkin, Lindholm, Monahan, Horvat, Shrinkaruk and then maybe Max Domi.

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05-21-2013, 08:44 PM
  #569
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I don't really get this myth that Detroit has some great scouting staff. I think people tend to overrate them because of Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I mean don't get me wrong they were incredible finds but they were more than a decade ago. Their recent drafts haven't been that phenomenal.
Agreed. Detroit was on the cutting edge of scouting Russia and then Scandinavia. The league has caught up though. I would take the Flyers scouting department over them. I do think Detroit does a way better job at development as they are very patient with their prospects.

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05-21-2013, 08:50 PM
  #570
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As much as I have been opposed to the idea of taking another grindy Canadian center, especially over a defenseman, Horvat has me extremely intrigued.

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05-21-2013, 09:00 PM
  #571
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As much as I have been opposed to the idea of taking another grindy Canadian center, especially over a defenseman, Horvat has me extremely intrigued.
Most here would probably freak out but IMO they could do way worse than picking Horvat.

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05-21-2013, 09:08 PM
  #572
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Most here would probably freak out but IMO they could do way worse than picking Horvat.
I loved how last years draft unfolded with a good forward in the 1st and 4 defensemen later and a goalie. If that's how it goes again with Horvat being the 1st round forward, that's great.

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05-21-2013, 09:10 PM
  #573
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
After reading Anthony San Fillipo's article, gut feeling says that it won't be a defenseman they're picking in the first. Call it a hunch, but it's either going to be Shinkaruk or Horvat.
It is really going to be an interesting draft. With so many good players who will be there when they pick it is hard to say. Do they pick a very good player who is close to being NHL ready? Or do they select a player who has a very high ceiling but may be a few years away? Along with Shinkaruk and Horvat, Wennberg could be a pick and of course the guy I have been yacking about all year...Kerby Rychel! If they go defense, I am still on the Morin and Morrissey bandwagon.

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05-21-2013, 09:18 PM
  #574
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I loved how last years draft unfolded with a good forward in the 1st and 4 defensemen later and a goalie. If that's how it goes again with Horvat being the 1st round forward, that's great.
There's still some good defensemen to be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. You could always move back into the late 1st round too if there's someone you like.

I think you could hold off on a goalie until next when the class should be better. You could grab a guy like Eric Comrie in the later rounds though. He was supposed to be right there with Fucale starting out but got and had to miss most of the year. Now he had to get hip surgery which is risky for goaltenders especially at his age but if you take him in the 5th round or later it could be worth the risk.


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05-21-2013, 09:26 PM
  #575
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4th post, and two of them are from 2004 if I saw correctly lol. Welcome aboard though!
Thanks. Its been a while.LOL

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