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Old
05-21-2013, 06:53 PM
  #851
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
why are you guys bickering about the 4th line when the top 3 lines are a mess. get your prorities in order ffs.
Because apparently getting an extra 4 minutes out of an 8 point player will solve our scoring problems.

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05-21-2013, 07:12 PM
  #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because apparently getting an extra 4 minutes out of an 8 point player will solve our scoring problems.
What a childish, simple view of the situation.

FACT: Stanley Cup Winning teams roll 4 lines
FACT: Playing our bottom lines a bit more allows our top lines to be fresher, and to have easier matchups. This can lead to increase in production - we saw this with a healthy Malhotra.
FACT: Our depth scoring has let us down for the past few years - contrary to popular belief our top line hasn't been that bad. Improving our depth (ie bottom 6) will improve our depth scoring.

It is one small step that will help solve the problem. It is not the only solution, or even the main solution.


Last edited by Nuckles: 05-21-2013 at 07:15 PM. Reason: removed flaming
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Old
05-21-2013, 07:17 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
We need upgrades in a few positions, I won't disagree with you there. That's why I'd like to sign Hendricks and trade Edler for Couturier.

Unfortunately I don't think Booth will be bought out, but I also agree we could upgrade the top 6.

Disagree with 3 lines playing 55 and the 4th playing 5 - we've tried that for several years and it always bites us in the ass. Good teams roll 4 lines - and most importantly Stanley Cup winning teams roll 4 lines.
Chicago didn't roll 4 when they won.

They won with a stacked top 9.

Look it up.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:18 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Adding Clusterbuck is a good idea but he would add to the hate of the team. The officials would hate us more too
Good for them. They'll hate us either way and frankly, this hate this is becoming overblown. They were hardly the reason we lost and have been incompetent league wide. Clutterbuck would be a huge addition for us. That is all that matters.

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05-21-2013, 07:20 PM
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
why are you guys bickering about the 4th line when the top 3 lines are a mess. get your prorities in order ffs.

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05-21-2013, 07:30 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Pretty much this. Who knows, for $1.5M maybe we could get someone who could have the same impact on the 4th like that Sedin has on the 1st line
But the Twins are lighting it up at the Worlds, their all better now

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05-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Chicago didn't roll 4 when they won.

They won with a stacked top 9.

Look it up.
Good luck finding a 3 rd line of Ladd-Bolland-Versteeg. Even then good luck fitting that 3 rd line under your cap.

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05-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
why are you guys bickering about the 4th line when the top 3 lines are a mess. get your prorities in order ffs.
It's not as if people aren't talking about upgrading/changing our top 9, so I don't see anything wrong with also talking about picking up a great fourth liner

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
What a childish, simple view of the situation.

FACT: Stanley Cup Winning teams roll 4 lines
FACT: Playing our bottom lines a bit more allows our top lines to be fresher, and to have easier matchups. This can lead to increase in production - we saw this with a healthy Malhotra.
FACT: Our depth scoring has let us down for the past few years - contrary to popular belief our top line hasn't been that bad. Improving our depth (ie bottom 6) will improve our depth scoring.

It is one small step that will help solve the problem. It is not the only solution, or even the main solution.
I wouldn't say those are facts at all. Those are more opinions than facts, because facts are 100% accurate.

As arsmaster mentioned, Chicago didn't roll 4 lines when they won the Cup. The Kings didn't play their 4th liners much either.

I'll give you that playing our bottom lines more will allow our top liners to be fresher, but I don't see how this will give them easier matchups. It's not like opposing teams are going to match up their top checkers against our 4th line.

Our depth scoring has let us down, but I wouldn't say that our primary scorers haven't let us down either. In these past playoffs the Sedins and Burrows combined for 2 goals between the three of them. That's simply not good enough.

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05-21-2013, 07:47 PM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Chicago didn't roll 4 when they won.

They won with a stacked top 9.

Look it up.
We should totally get a stacked top 9!

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:07 PM
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Please Let Us Win View Post
We should totally get a stacked top 9!
Time to roid up our rookies.

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:08 PM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Please Let Us Win View Post
We should totally get a stacked top 9!
I'd be happy with allocating most of our funds towards a stacked top 9, and then using the 4th line as either a developmental line, or a line for pure enforcers/grinders who can physically beat down the opposition in limited ice-time. Something like Archibald-Lain-Weise

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:11 PM
  #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I'd be happy with allocating most of our funds towards a stacked top 9, and then using the 4th line as either a developmental line, or a line for pure enforcers/grinders who can physically beat down the opposition in limited ice-time. Something like Archibald-Lain-Weise
That fourth line would probably be the worst 4th line in the league by a good margin.

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05-21-2013, 08:12 PM
  #864
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philosophically id much rather have elite skills out of the top three than great out of the top four lines. im of the mindset that most players can handle considerably more ice time in any given game or stretch of games from a physical standpoint and rolling three excellent lines just seems to be more conducive to that kind of sustained pressure

interestingly enough, i think that was an underplayed aspect of bostons comeback vs toronto. obviously it was largely luck, but the fact that they stopped using line 4 and toronto didnt formulate a response was pretty impactful

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Something like Archibald-Lain-Weise
that said, you only use this line if you're ahead like three goals and you want to get those dudes some ice time, lol. that would be a funny line

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:53 PM
  #865
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Yes.. That's right listen to y2k.... The guy who wants to offer Clarkson 6mil a year long term and Clowe for combined salary of over 10 mil

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05-21-2013, 08:56 PM
  #866
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Even though hes a winger to me ryan reaves is the perfect type of 4th liner I like. Physical, hits everything that moves, relentless on the forcheck, fights, fires up the team, and can occasionally score. He was a wrecking machine against l.a. really wore some of l.a.'s D down.

To bad his 550 000 dollar contract is not up till next season.


Last edited by Orca Smash: 05-21-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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05-21-2013, 09:08 PM
  #867
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No clue what he has left in the tank, but Jeff Halpern would make sense on a one year deal. He produced excellent results given his role this season. In fact, I don't really understand why the Canucks didn't claim him. Colby Armstrong should be a consideration on a cheap deal.

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05-21-2013, 10:13 PM
  #868
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IIRC Chicago had an excellent 4th that year. Madden, Fraser, Burish, etc

They also had low end first liners like Ladd and Versteeg on their 3rd line.

LA had a very good 4th line as well. Just like Chicago they had an excellent 3rd line to eat up minutes. Stoll, playoff Penner. Even now with an injury to Stoll they can ask players in the 4th line to step up.

Not having a solid bottom 6 has been the biggest weakness during the Gillis era. After a couple injuries we had healthy scratches playing in the top 6.

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05-21-2013, 10:19 PM
  #869
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TSN said that AV will be fired this week, they think Thursday or Friday it'll be announced

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:27 PM
  #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
No clue what he has left in the tank, but Jeff Halpern would make sense on a one year deal. He produced excellent results given his role this season. In fact, I don't really understand why the Canucks didn't claim him. Colby Armstrong should be a consideration on a cheap deal.
Halpern was excellent for Montreal, even occasionally slipping onto the third line and not appearing overwhelmed. He is quite underrated and a faceoff beast. Armstrong though was widely inconsistent and slow beyond words. While I love the guy's attitude, he really never recovered from his injuries. I'd say Ebbett in a proper depth role is a close equivalent. Armstrong just hits more.

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05-21-2013, 10:31 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Yes.. That's right listen to y2k.... The guy who wants to offer Clarkson 6mil a year long term and Clowe for combined salary of over 10 mil
This along with the fact he doesn't think the Sedins' are worth even 4 million each.

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:37 PM
  #872
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Could the Canucks Acquire Brad Richards?

Here's a scenario for you all to mull upon:

To NEW YORK:
-Keith Ballard
-David Booth

To VANCOUVER:
-Brad Richards

New York does this because the Brad Richards/John Tortorella reunification appears to be failing, and Derick Brassard appears poised to take over Richards' spot on the depth chart (if he hasn't already). New York gets two players with bad contracts, but that they're only committed to for a fraction of the years that they're otherwise committed to Richards.

Vancouver does this because there's probably not much else they can do besides buyouts with Ballard & Booth, and they get immediate, proven offensive help. Vancouver's top six could then be:

Sedin/Sedin/Kassian (if he's ready)
Kesler/Richards/Burrows

Obviously, this would be a massive risk on Vancouver's part, in taking on Richards' contract, which pays him $6.7M until 2020, at which point he'll be the tender age of 40. However, hard to argue with the stability that it'd give us at the C position, assuming also a Sedin extension.

The allure with buying Richards today is that he'd come cheap, since Tortorella appears to not be interested in playing him. Which is strange, because even in his "terrible" years since being acquired by NYR, he's gotten 100 points in 128 games, which is pretty darn decent. The guy's an offensive genius and he might be just what this team's doctor ordered.

Not sure how exactly I'd feel about something like this, given the huge commitment with Richards, but it'd be a really ballsy move, and an excellent example of buying low. Thoughts?

EDIT: really unfortunate that this got moved. Now it'll just get lost in the thousands of other semi-related stories within this thread. Why is there such a fear of starting new threads, anyway? Makes everything much cleaner and organized. Just my opinion.


Last edited by King of the ES*: 05-21-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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Old
05-21-2013, 10:44 PM
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
FACT: Stanley Cup Winning teams roll 4 lines
Washington isn't one of the teams I follow so Hendricks isn't a guy I really have an opinion on, but what makes the Bruins 4th line good IMO is they have legitimately skilled guys like Dan paille playing there. Is Hendricks as good as a Paille? Hendricks has 2 points in 34 playoff games...

Eric Nystrom is another guy I could see us throw an offer at to improve the 4th line. Could bring some goalscoring and physicality to a 4th line that hasn't produced a thing when it matters over the last handful of years.

IMO if you want to really make an impact in the bottom 6 you try and get a guy like Marcel Goc on the 4th line. A legitimate 30-40 point player that should be able to carry a couple average wingers like Weise to some strong two-way numbers.

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05-21-2013, 10:47 PM
  #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Here's a scenario for you all to mull upon:

To NEW YORK:
-Keith Ballard
-David Booth

To VANCOUVER:
-Brad Richards

New York does this because the Brad Richards/John Tortorella reunification appears to be failing, and Derick Brassard appears poised to take over Richards' spot on the depth chart (if he hasn't already). New York gets two players with bad contracts, but that they're only committed to for a fraction of the years that they're otherwise committed to Richards.

Vancouver does this because there's probably not much else they can do besides buyouts with Ballard & Booth, and they get immediate, proven offensive help. Vancouver's top six could then be:

Sedin/Sedin/Kassian (if he's ready)
Kesler/Richards/Burrows

Obviously, this would be a massive risk on Vancouver's part, in taking on Richards' contract, which pays him $6.7M until 2020, at which point he'll be the tender age of 40. However, hard to argue with the stability that it'd give us at the C position, assuming also a Sedin extension.

The allure with buying Richards today is that he'd come cheap, since Tortorella appears to not be interested in playing him. Which is strange, because even in his "terrible" years since being acquired by NYR, he's gotten 100 points in 128 games, which is pretty darn decent. The guy's an offensive genius and he might be just what this team's doctor ordered.

Not sure how exactly I'd feel about something like this, given the huge commitment with Richards, but it'd be a really ballsy move, and an excellent example of buying low. Thoughts?

EDIT: really unfortunate that this got moved. Now it'll just get lost in the thousands of other semi-related stories within this thread. Why is there such a fear of starting new threads, anyway? Makes everything much cleaner and organized. Just my opinion.

No thanks. Wait till he is bought out.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:07 PM
  #875
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
IIRC Chicago had an excellent 4th that year. Madden, Fraser, Burish, etc

They also had low end first liners like Ladd and Versteeg on their 3rd line.

LA had a very good 4th line as well. Just like Chicago they had an excellent 3rd line to eat up minutes. Stoll, playoff Penner. Even now with an injury to Stoll they can ask players in the 4th line to step up.

Not having a solid bottom 6 has been the biggest weakness during the Gillis era. After a couple injuries we had healthy scratches playing in the top 6.
Everyone who hates the 4th line keeps overlooking the fact that's where we get our replacements from when the top 9 get injury. Our top 9 would have looked at lot better if it wasn't missing Schroeder and Booth, the 4th line would have looked better too. You have to factor injuries in.

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