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Old
05-21-2013, 10:12 PM
  #876
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Halpern was excellent for Montreal, even occasionally slipping onto the third line and not appearing overwhelmed. He is quite underrated and a faceoff beast. Armstrong though was widely inconsistent and slow beyond words. While I love the guy's attitude, he really never recovered from his injuries. I'd say Ebbett in a proper depth role is a close equivalent. Armstrong just hits more.
He's slow but he's much better than Ebbett. He's simply a pretty good hockey player which is more than can be said for someone like Sestito. Whatever he lacks in skating speed he more than makes up by being more skilled and smarter than the average 4th liner.

Good to see somebody else agree with me on Halpern.

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05-21-2013, 10:13 PM
  #877
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Here's a scenario for you all to mull upon:

To NEW YORK:
-Keith Ballard
-David Booth

To VANCOUVER:
-Brad Richards

New York does this because the Brad Richards/John Tortorella reunification appears to be failing, and Derick Brassard appears poised to take over Richards' spot on the depth chart (if he hasn't already). New York gets two players with bad contracts, but that they're only committed to for a fraction of the years that they're otherwise committed to Richards.

Vancouver does this because there's probably not much else they can do besides buyouts with Ballard & Booth, and they get immediate, proven offensive help. Vancouver's top six could then be:

Sedin/Sedin/Kassian (if he's ready)
Kesler/Richards/Burrows

Obviously, this would be a massive risk on Vancouver's part, in taking on Richards' contract, which pays him $6.7M until 2020, at which point he'll be the tender age of 40. However, hard to argue with the stability that it'd give us at the C position, assuming also a Sedin extension.

The allure with buying Richards today is that he'd come cheap, since Tortorella appears to not be interested in playing him. Which is strange, because even in his "terrible" years since being acquired by NYR, he's gotten 100 points in 128 games, which is pretty darn decent. The guy's an offensive genius and he might be just what this team's doctor ordered.

Not sure how exactly I'd feel about something like this, given the huge commitment with Richards, but it'd be a really ballsy move, and an excellent example of buying low. Thoughts?

EDIT: really unfortunate that this got moved. Now it'll just get lost in the thousands of other semi-related stories within this thread. Why is there such a fear of starting new threads, anyway? Makes everything much cleaner and organized. Just my opinion.
BRILLIANT! WE'D NEVER LOSE A GAME 7 AGAIN!

But his cap is too much, he'd be getting paid more than the Sedins and would be a second liner for us. If he was bought out, and we signed him for 9 mil for 2 years I'd be okay with that. I think he would fit in well with Kesler/Higgins and be able to score 20 goals/50 points, he really just needs a change of scenery.

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05-21-2013, 10:25 PM
  #878
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Absolutely no interest in Richards. To quote a rangers' fan, "he has been craptacularly terriawful." Even were he bought out, why pay him $4.5M after a dreafully poor season, yet people shy away from Roy, who actually played well? If you think Roy no showed during the playoffs, well Richards is so bad, he is anchoring the fourth line and getting outplayed. Granted, Torts had a habit of crushing confidence but the risks far outweigh any possible gain.

In a trade? Good lord no. That is Gomez bad.

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05-21-2013, 10:33 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
He's slow but he's much better than Ebbett. He's simply a pretty good hockey player which is more than can be said for someone like Sestito. Whatever he lacks in skating speed he more than makes up by being more skilled and smarter than the average 4th liner.

Good to see somebody else agree with me on Halpern.
Yeah, Ebbett may be too harsh a comparison but I do not think Armstrong could handle our system. He struggled mightily in Montreal due to foot speed. If he stays healthy though, he would be better than Sestito. Best thing I can say about Armstrong is the guy cares; one of those character type guys, much as I hate hockey cliches.

Halpern you grow to love if you watch the Habs. He did and does so much; faceoff specialist, good penalty killer. He may be as close to Malhotra was we can get. Another guy who could fly under the radar is Moore, if he chooses to return to the NHL.

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:38 PM
  #880
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I was just thinking about Colorado and their situation. A Colorado poster said, maybe they are waiting for Vigneault to be fired? Anyway, that made me wonder about a couple of things. What if Roy is in negotiations with a different team? What if his brother assumed it was Colorado but it was Vancouver?

Roy, the GM would solve several problems for Aquilini. It would be a total change of direction and team culture. It would allow the team to back off trading Luongo. After all, Roy may be the greatest all time goalie, if he says he wants Luongo....! Same thing with Vigneault. Roy could retain him without raising an eyebrow.

Roy could open doors previously closed to this team. Access to the Habs family/alumni. Roy will no doubt suit up for the Canadiens in the Winter Classic, raising visability. Former team mates (cough, Keener!) can be approached on behalf of the team.

Let Sakic have Colorado. Vancouver needs Roy.

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05-21-2013, 10:39 PM
  #881
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If a deal could be worked around Burrows for Paul Stastny...

To Dal- Kesler, Edler
To Van- Eriksson, Dillon, 10th overall

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:41 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
If a deal could be worked around Burrows for Paul Stastny...

To Dal- Kesler, Edler
To Van- Eriksson, Dillon, 10th overall
Who will be our 2nd line center next season?

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:42 PM
  #883
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Who will be our 2nd line center next season?
Paul Stastny...

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:46 PM
  #884
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Washington isn't one of the teams I follow so Hendricks isn't a guy I really have an opinion on, but what makes the Bruins 4th line good IMO is they have legitimately skilled guys like Dan paille playing there. Is Hendricks as good as a Paille? Hendricks has 2 points in 34 playoff games...

Eric Nystrom is another guy I could see us throw an offer at to improve the 4th line. Could bring some goalscoring and physicality to a 4th line that hasn't produced a thing when it matters over the last handful of years.

IMO if you want to really make an impact in the bottom 6 you try and get a guy like Marcel Goc on the 4th line. A legitimate 30-40 point player that should be able to carry a couple average wingers like Weise to some strong two-way numbers.
Goc is not a #4 center, though, and it's hard to see a scenario where he'd sign to put himself in that situaition. Averaged over 18 minutes of TOI last season, basically 2nd line minutes. He's a #3 center solution, not a #4.

Agree with most of what you're saying, and agree that Nystrom would be a nice addition, although again I think he'll get a 7-figure deal.

Goal should be to have the pro scouting to find some guys who can deliver for near the league minimum, given the constraints on the rest of the roster.

Adam Cracknell is a local guy who looked good down the stretch this year on St. Louis' 4th line, good size, hard worker, good production in 4th line minutes so far in his NHL career. UFA who would probably sign near the league minimum if he were to get a one-way deal from his hometown team. Signings like this are how you build cheap decent depth.

The problem right now with the suggestions here are that they're either Cadillac UFA 4th liner replacements who are going to get $1.5 million or it's the other extreme where people are promoting garbage suggestions from inside the organization (Lain, for ie) as cheap options when there simply is nobody in our organization ready to step up. Neither of these are the best solution.

Dana Tyrell is a guy in the TB organization (and another guy with BC connections) who has been a great skilled smaller defensive center at lower levels and might be ready to step up. Signed for $600k for next season, if we could get him for a mid-round pick or something along those lines.

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:50 PM
  #885
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Paul Stastny...
I cant read

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:51 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I was just thinking about Colorado and their situation. A Colorado poster said, maybe they are waiting for Vigneault to be fired? Anyway, that made me wonder about a couple of things. What if Roy is in negotiations with a different team? What if his brother assumed it was Colorado but it was Vancouver?

Roy, the GM would solve several problems for Aquilini. It would be a total change of direction and team culture. It would allow the team to back off trading Luongo. After all, Roy may be the greatest all time goalie, if he says he wants Luongo....! Same thing with Vigneault. Roy could retain him without raising an eyebrow.

Roy could open doors previously closed to this team. Access to the Habs family/alumni. Roy will no doubt suit up for the Canadiens in the Winter Classic, raising visability. Former team mates (cough, Keener!) can be approached on behalf of the team.

Let Sakic have Colorado. Vancouver needs Roy.
Pretty comical stuff there.

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:55 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Goc is not a #4 center, though, and it's hard to see a scenario where he'd sign to put himself in that situaition. Averaged over 18 minutes of TOI last season, basically 2nd line minutes. He's a #3 center solution, not a #4.

Adam Cracknell is a local guy who looked good down the stretch this year on St. Louis' 4th line, good size, hard worker, good production in 4th line minutes so far in his NHL career. UFA who would probably sign near the league minimum if he were to get a one-way deal from his hometown team. Signings like this are how you build cheap decent depth.

Dana Tyrell is a guy in the TB organization (and another guy with BC connections) who has been a great skilled smaller defensive center at lower levels and might be ready to step up. Signed for $600k for next season, if we could get him for a mid-round pick or something along those lines.
Goc is a good 3rd line centre. But if you get him in a Luongo deal and can find another centre as good or better than he is, then you've got a bottom 6 that compoares to a team like the Bruins. Unlikely, though that should be the goal.

Cracknell did look good with Porter and Reaves in the playoffs. Didn't know much about him before that series but his size and physicality is an obvious fit for a 4th line.

Gillis is too fixated on size at the moment to target a Tyrell IMO.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:10 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Goc is a good 3rd line centre. But if you get him in a Luongo deal and can find another centre as good or better than he is, then you've got a bottom 6 that compoares to a team like the Bruins. Unlikely, though that should be the goal.

Cracknell did look good with Porter and Reaves in the playoffs. Didn't know much about him before that series but his size and physicality is an obvious fit for a 4th line.

Gillis is too fixated on size at the moment to target a Tyrell IMO.
Ah, thought Goc was a UFA. But at $1.7 million that's awful rich for the role he'd play if we had a #3 center in place. As a 3rd line center, however, that's a different story.

As you say, Cracknell definitely showed he can play an NHL 4th line role in the playoffs this year, and did a good job. He should be a guy who is targeted - very signable, local guy who would cost near the minimum.

Size fixation is always dangerous. Tyrell is a guy who is a terrier after the puck, sacrifices his body, and has NHL skating ability. And some skill. Miles better as a #4 center option than anyone we have in our own organization right now.

Like you, I don't like the '3 unskilled bangers' approach to a 4th line. You need at least one guy in there who has some skill and vision and can drive a bit of puck possession for that line - if not you just have pluggers running around while the puck is always in their own zone.

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05-21-2013, 11:13 PM
  #889
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Gillis is too fixated on size at the moment to target a Tyrell IMO.
Not entirely true.

Gillis acquired Derek Roy (5'10) and targeted Nate Thompson (6'0) for the 3C. It's still very unlikely we see Tyrell and Schroeder as the bottom 6 Cs.

It's only on the wings that Gillis has become infatuated with physicality (Torres, Clowe, etc).

I think the suggestion of Goc for the 4C is a sign that we have impeccable depth. Goc is a player capable of stepping up to 2C minutes as you alluded to and has the defensive presence to carry Weise/plugs and still play ~10 min of ES.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:17 PM
  #890
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Food for thought. If we dealt Edler for Eriksson (in whatever packages). It might be worth inquiring about Beaulieu or Tinordi out of Montreal. Yes, they would likely demand Kassian or Jensen but both look to be stud defensemen and are already showing signs of it.

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05-21-2013, 11:18 PM
  #891
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If we deal Edler for Eriksson I'd rather just sign Gonchar or Streit.

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05-21-2013, 11:21 PM
  #892
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I think if the Canucks are to go with Schroeder as the 3rd line center next season then they need to find a more than capable 4th line center, someone who can step up if needed. Lapierre wasn't really able to do that this season which is likely part of the reason he won't be back.

A Marcel Goc that can play tough defensive minutes, anchor the PK and allow Kesler more offensive time, and still contribute modestly at 5-on-5 would be a great addition.

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05-21-2013, 11:21 PM
  #893
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No clue what he has left in the tank, but Jeff Halpern would make sense on a one year deal. He produced excellent results given his role this season. In fact, I don't really understand why the Canucks didn't claim him. Colby Armstrong should be a consideration on a cheap deal.
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Halpern was excellent for Montreal, even occasionally slipping onto the third line and not appearing overwhelmed. He is quite underrated and a faceoff beast. Armstrong though was widely inconsistent and slow beyond words. While I love the guy's attitude, he really never recovered from his injuries. I'd say Ebbett in a proper depth role is a close equivalent. Armstrong just hits more.
Agreed on Halpern. I didn't understand why the Canucks didn't throw a claim in either. Wouldn't be against seeing him here on a 1 year deal next year. Versatile, cheap, experienced. What's not to like?

Armstrong though, i agree with Bourne...just painfully slow and frustrating to watch. He's a shell of his former self. At like 600k i'd bite i guess as a 12th/13th sort of forward...he's still capable of being an NHL player, just not an every night player any more.


Another '4th line candidate' i have my eye on is Brad Richardson in LA. Assuming he gets shuffled out as a FA this summer and goes a bit under-the-radar, not looking for much of a payday, i wouldn't mind adding a versatile player with a bit of recent cup winning swagger and experience like that. Can play wing or center, decent on faceoffs when needed and it wouldn't hurt to add an extra wing option in the bottom-6 who can take some faceoffs or play center in a pinch. Not the prototypical 4th liner per se, but plays a gritty enough game for the 4th line, but isn't completely inept with the puck.


Last edited by biturbo19: 05-21-2013 at 11:27 PM.
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Old
05-21-2013, 11:29 PM
  #894
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BRILLIANT! WE'D NEVER LOSE A GAME 7 AGAIN!

But his cap is too much, he'd be getting paid more than the Sedins and would be a second liner for us. If he was bought out, and we signed him for 9 mil for 2 years I'd be okay with that. I think he would fit in well with Kesler/Higgins and be able to score 20 goals/50 points, he really just needs a change of scenery.
Richards is the wrong way to go, they need to get younger and restock the farm as they are way behind most teams in good young talent.

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05-21-2013, 11:31 PM
  #895
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Agreed on Halpern. I didn't understand why the Canucks didn't throw a claim in either. Wouldn't be against seeing him here on a 1 year deal next year. Versatile, cheap, experienced. What's not to like?

Armstrong though, i agree with Bourne...just painfully slow and frustrating to watch. He's a shell of his former self. At like 600k i'd bite i guess as a 12th/13th sort of forward...he's still capable of being an NHL player, just not an every night player any more.


Another '4th line candidate' i have my eye on is Brad Richardson in LA. Assuming he gets shuffled out as a FA this summer and goes a bit under-the-radar, not looking for much of a payday, i wouldn't mind adding a versatile player with a bit of recent cup winning swagger and experience like that. Can play wing or center, decent on faceoffs when needed and it wouldn't hurt to add an extra wing option in the bottom-6 who can take some faceoffs or play center in a pinch. Not the prototypical 4th liner per se, but plays a gritty enough game for the 4th line, but isn't completely inept with the puck.
Armstrong is basically done. Used to be a decent player but is finished.

As for Halpern, he'll be 38 by next year's playoffs and had 3 points in 46 games this year. Looked kind of OK for Montreal but at this stage you'd have to say he's an emergency stopgap at best.

Agreed on Richardson - solid utility player who has seen his icetime and value eroded by the center depth in LA, wouldn't be a bad signing. Upgrade on Ebbett as a 13th forward.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:36 PM
  #896
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What a childish, simple view of the situation.

FACT: Stanley Cup Winning teams roll 4 lines
FACT: Playing our bottom lines a bit more allows our top lines to be fresher, and to have easier matchups. This can lead to increase in production - we saw this with a healthy Malhotra.
FACT: Our depth scoring has let us down for the past few years - contrary to popular belief our top line hasn't been that bad. Improving our depth (ie bottom 6) will improve our depth scoring.

It is one small step that will help solve the problem. It is not the only solution, or even the main solution.
The guy had a point though, our top 9 needs a total revamp, bottom 4 could be the best in the league but without a really good mix and chemistry in the top 9 what does it matter?

Tinkering is only going to prolong the problem, moving Edler, if they can get the right deal as his value is low now, or Burrows before the no trades kick in could get them quality picks and prospects for the future.

Tinkering, dreaming that the window is still open leads to a Calgary west situation IMO.

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #897
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Kesler, Bieksa out
Stastny, Downie in

Yeah?

Edit: Even more crazy throw in prospects and picks (Jensen + 1st + ?) to get Eriksson

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Booth Stastny Kassian
Burrows X Hansen
Higgins Schroeder Downie

NHL 13 would be fun right now..


Last edited by shortshorts: 05-21-2013 at 11:51 PM.
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Old
05-21-2013, 11:48 PM
  #898
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Kesler, Bieksa out
Stastny, Downie in

Yeah?
Downie's injury is a concern.

If Stastny isn't re-signed to a reasonable deal, it would look awful a year from now.

I would prefer to work a deal around Burrows and Stastny. Burrows is 32 and his contract could become a bit of a problem. That's not the case with Kesler.

Definately open to moving Bieksa however. This team needs a new identity.

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05-21-2013, 11:50 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Downie's injury is a concern.

If Stastny isn't re-signed to a reasonable deal, it would look awful a year from now.

I would prefer to work a deal around Burrows and Stastny. Burrows is 32 and his contract could become a bit of a problem. That's not the case with Kesler.

Definately open to moving Bieksa however. This team needs a new identity.
How the heck are you going to convince Colorado Stastny for Burrows?!?! DtS for new GM!!

I'm extremely concerned with Kesler's injury issues. Stastny is only 27 and comes in to replace the Sedins when need be.

My proposed (pipedream) line-up is very young and tenacious, changes the core dramatically, and offensively looks better (of course in my opinion).

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05-21-2013, 11:51 PM
  #900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Kesler, Bieksa out
Stastny, Downie in

Yeah?

Edit: Even more crazy throw in prospects and picks (Jensen + 1st + ?) to get Eriksson

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Booth Stastny Kassian
Burrows X Hansen
Higgins Schroeder Downie

NHL 13 would be fun right now..
Wut?

Kesler > Stastny
Bieksa > Downie

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