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The Armchair GM Thread - XL

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:55 PM
  #901
Drop the Sopel
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
How the heck are you going to convince Colorado Stastny for Burrows?!?! DtS for new GM!!

I'm extremely concerned with Kesler's injury issues. Stastny is only 27 and comes in to replace the Sedins when need be.

My proposed (pipedream) line-up is very young and tenacious, changes the core dramatically, and offensively looks better (of course in my opinion).
Burrows is over $2mil cheaper, is a strong defensive presence and good goalscorer. Colorado has a good 1-2 with Duchene and O'Reilly and Burrows could be a good fit on either line. Stastny may not want to be there... Patrick Roy and Alex Burrows are french!

I like Stastny as a target. Wouldn't work a deal around him and Kesler though.

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05-22-2013, 12:04 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Washington isn't one of the teams I follow so Hendricks isn't a guy I really have an opinion on, but what makes the Bruins 4th line good IMO is they have legitimately skilled guys like Dan paille playing there. Is Hendricks as good as a Paille? Hendricks has 2 points in 34 playoff games...
I'm surprised that teams haven't started keying in on guys coming off bad years to get a decent player for their fourth line. Every year you see other guys like Paille (like Patrick Eaves, Clarke MacArthur, Scott Gomez, etc.) sign for peanuts and become quality fourth liners despite the fact that they don't exactly fit the mould teams are looking for there. Having a guy like that opens the door to using a couple of less skilled players if you want a fourth line that is big and intimidating.

I like the Brad Richardson suggestion.

Another guy I see as a buy low opportunity is Alexei Ponikarovsky. His offense fell off the map this season (9 points in 42 games) but he was still a quality possession player who got the short end of the stick in terms of the percentages. He only got $1.8 million last offseason coming off a 33 point season, and it's tough to imagine much of a market for him with a declining cap and his production this year. He's a good bounceback bet and fits the size mantra Gillis seems to be preaching. Worst case, he'd be a decent fourth liner.

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05-22-2013, 12:10 AM
  #903
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After playing with capgeek the last hour... Burrows is way too expensive if he's not on the Sedin line.

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:15 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I'm surprised that teams haven't started keying in on guys coming off bad years to get a decent player for their fourth line. Every year you see other guys like Paille (like Patrick Eaves, Clarke MacArthur, Scott Gomez, etc.) sign for peanuts and become quality fourth liners despite the fact that they don't exactly fit the mould teams are looking for there. Having a guy like that opens the door to using a couple of less skilled players if you want a fourth line that is big and intimidating.

I like the Brad Richardson suggestion.

Another guy I see as a buy low opportunity is Alexei Ponikarovsky. His offense fell off the map this season (9 points in 42 games) but he was still a quality possession player who got the short end of the stick in terms of the percentages. He only got $1.8 million last offseason coming off a 33 point season, and it's tough to imagine much of a market for him with a declining cap and his production this year. He's a good bounceback bet and fits the size mantra Gillis seems to be preaching. Worst case, he'd be a decent fourth liner.
Kyle Wellwood.

Takes no penalties and if you bookend him with a couple big, physical wingers that can put the puck in the net you might have something. You would at least win a lot of faceoffs and outchance opponents 4th lines.

Ponikarovsky Wellwood Kassian

Steve Bernier is another guy that fit your description pretty well. Players with top 9 upside that can't quite stick.

If the Leafs swing a deal with the Lefas for Luongo I think Frattin would be a nice addition to the 4th line. Need to start targeting guys that have 8-10 goal upside - something we likely wouldn't out out of an entire 4th line with Sestito and Weise on it.

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05-22-2013, 12:15 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
After playing with capgeek the last hour... Burrows is way too expensive if he's not on the Sedin line.
agree, 4.5 mil for a 3rd liner.. ugh

almost as bad as paying Bieksa 4.6

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05-22-2013, 12:22 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Kesler, Bieksa out
Stastny, Downie in

Yeah?

Edit: Even more crazy throw in prospects and picks (Jensen + 1st + ?) to get Eriksson

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Booth Stastny Kassian
Burrows X Hansen
Higgins Schroeder Downie

NHL 13 would be fun right now..
I do not understand this sudden idolization for Stastny. He is barely a bigger forward than Roy and their physical stats are even more negligible.

Roy: 15 Hits; 30 Blocked shots
Stastny: 21 Hits; 29 Blocked shots

The only notably difference between them is faceoffs, where Stastny clears trumps Roy. But is that worth assets and much higher cap space? The idea of replacing Kesler with Stastny is ridiculous. That is massive downgrade. Put into perspective, Kesler has more hits than Stastny is less than half the games - games he played with a broken foot and recovering from surgery.

I think Vanek is getting overrated but can at least buy some of the arguments favoring him. Stastny? He is overrated, overpaid, inferior to what we already have and can barely out hit Derek friggin' Roy. Why do we want him?

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05-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #907
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Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-xxx

We should be looking for a player to fill in on Kesler's wing there. Give Kassian a chance to reignite his chemistry from the start of the season. Best case scenario he does, worst case we end up shuffling the lines and move Higgins/Hansen or maybe Jensen up.

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05-22-2013, 12:27 AM
  #908
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Why on earth would we move Kesler to get Stastny? He'd be an amazing 3rd line center or a 2nd line winer for us, but there is no way that would happen. Let's focus on getting the positions filled that aren't currently, like that 3rd line center role or the 2nd line wing spot, and stay away from moving Kesler.

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05-22-2013, 12:28 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I do not understand this sudden idolization for Stastny. He is barely a bigger forward than Roy and their physical stats are even more negligible.
Paul Stastny is a tank. He's not a physical player but he doesn't get knocked off the puck either. He's shorter than Kesler but stronger on his skates.

Maybe people want Stastny because our top 9 has been built around undersized, defense 1st tweeners that can't produce enough secondary scoring and Stastny is one of the more productive players in the NHL over the last 3-5 years. Not to mention Stastny is the exact type of linemate Kesler needs...

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05-22-2013, 12:29 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
If the Leafs swing a deal with the Lefas for Luongo I think Frattin would be a nice addition to the 4th line. Need to start targeting guys that have 8-10 goal upside - something we likely wouldn't out out of an entire 4th line with Sestito and Weise on it.
Agree with everything else you say, but I still think Weise is a useful fourth liner. He's got a good track record at lower levels and odds are the team will shoot a little better than they did with him on the ice this season. He also drew penalties at a much better clip (~50% more often) than he took them.

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05-22-2013, 12:40 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Paul Stastny is a tank. He's not a physical player but he doesn't get knocked off the puck either. He's shorter than Kesler but stronger on his skates.

Maybe people want Stastny because our top 9 has been built around undersized, defense 1st tweeners that can't produce enough secondary scoring and Stastny is one of the more productive players in the NHL over the last 3-5 years. Not to mention Stastny is the exact type of linemate Kesler needs...
Except he comes at a high price both in trade and contract, neither being favorable for us. I might be sold on the idea if Stastny were a free agent and we signed him to a better contract but as it stands, we are better off either re-signing Roy or looking elsewhere. Size is an overrated aspect nowadays - the latest trend.

I would much rather look to Cammalleri or Tanguay out of Calgary, both who are underrated playmakers, come at far more reasonable contracts (Calgary would eat Cammy's salary) and in Cammalleri's case, have a monstrous playoff resume. Biggest perk is it wouldn't cost nearly as much to get them as it would Stastny.

Now if Colorado is willing to trade him for a first and B prospect while eating up to twenty percent of that god awful contract. I'll play ball.

Short of those two, Burrows/Kesler/Roy is hardly a bad line. In fact, I would argue it being pretty deadly.

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05-22-2013, 12:51 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
no. carlyle is ****ing hopeless and the only reason the leafs won games in the playoffs was because worthless AHL quality defencemen got hurt, forcing him to use jake gardiner

when your coach is literally sitting your most impactful defenceman because he needs to play mark fraser, he's Really Bad

edit: that needs to be extra double bold. he was not using jake gardiner until an injury forced him to
Thank you. Bang on!

100% quality post.

Well done good sir.

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05-22-2013, 01:06 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Crispy Crust View Post
Thank you. Bang on!

100% quality post.

Well done good sir.
You mean your coach prefers playing "defensive" guys who should be healthy scratches over high risk dmen who have proven to be able to play top minutes as well?


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05-22-2013, 01:31 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I would much rather look to Cammalleri or Tanguay out of Calgary, both who are underrated playmakers, come at far more reasonable contracts (Calgary would eat Cammy's salary) and in Cammalleri's case, have a monstrous playoff resume. Biggest perk is it wouldn't cost nearly as much to get them as it would Stastny.
Cowtown may not want a piece of our roster back, but for Tanguay or Cammy they'll want a pretty good prospect and maybe our 1st Round Pick since it is in the bottom 10. I think it's safe to assume they wouldn't want Rodin or Jensen though, because they have a very similar prospect in Baertschi, so that would probably mean a defenseman.

Perhaps I should ask this in the Trade Board, but McNally and a 2nd for Tanguay or McNally and a 1st for Cammaleri wouldn't be that bad for the Canucks, so long as Calgary eats some of the salary.

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05-22-2013, 01:32 AM
  #915
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
You mean your coach prefers playing "defensive" guys who should be healthy scratches over high risk dmen who have proven to be able to play top minutes as well?

Pretty much to say the least lol.

Egregious decisions:

- Benching Jake Gardiner and JML in favour of Mike Kostka.
- Misusing Mikhail Grabovski - Completely burying their top puck possession C.
- Playing pylon Holzer on the top pair with Dion Phaneuf for 20 games in a 48 game shortened season.
- Giving Colton Orr more ES ice time in one game than Phil Kessel.

I mean I imagine there is more but Carlyle is off his rocker.

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05-22-2013, 02:15 AM
  #916
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Ah, thought Goc was a UFA. But at $1.7 million that's awful rich for the role he'd play if we had a #3 center in place. As a 3rd line center, however, that's a different story.

As you say, Cracknell definitely showed he can play an NHL 4th line role in the playoffs this year, and did a good job. He should be a guy who is targeted - very signable, local guy who would cost near the minimum.

Size fixation is always dangerous. Tyrell is a guy who is a terrier after the puck, sacrifices his body, and has NHL skating ability. And some skill. Miles better as a #4 center option than anyone we have in our own organization right now.

Like you, I don't like the '3 unskilled bangers' approach to a 4th line. You need at least one guy in there who has some skill and vision and can drive a bit of puck possession for that line - if not you just have pluggers running around while the puck is always in their own zone.
Dale Weise is still signed right? Having a skilled guy on the fourth line might bring out some more of Weise's talent.

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05-22-2013, 02:21 AM
  #917
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Dale Weise is still signed right? Having a skilled guy on the fourth line might bring out some more of Weise's talent.
Weise is RFA he will be back for 650K or so.

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05-22-2013, 02:22 AM
  #918
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Well, I never do these, but suppose ill try. This would be my team.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Horton-Kesler-Simmonds
Higgins-Couturier-Hansen
Plug - Gordon -Plug

Hammuis - Garrsion
Bieksa - Tanev
Corrado - ?
Alberts


Sign Horton to a 3 year 12 million dollar contract.
Trade Edler and Kassian for Couts, Simmonds and a 2nd.
Just need a 3rd pairing Dman.

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05-22-2013, 02:23 AM
  #919
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Oops.

Buy out Ballard
Buy out Booth
Trade Luongo for picks.

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05-22-2013, 02:25 AM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Askel View Post
Weise is RFA he will be back for 650K or so.
Thank you good sir. I'm glad Weise will be (hopefully) back. He is a quality fourth liner who is still very young and improving.

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05-22-2013, 02:34 AM
  #921
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Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
Cowtown may not want a piece of our roster back, but for Tanguay or Cammy they'll want a pretty good prospect and maybe our 1st Round Pick since it is in the bottom 10. I think it's safe to assume they wouldn't want Rodin or Jensen though, because they have a very similar prospect in Baertschi, so that would probably mean a defenseman.

Perhaps I should ask this in the Trade Board, but McNally and a 2nd for Tanguay or McNally and a 1st for Cammaleri wouldn't be that bad for the Canucks, so long as Calgary eats some of the salary.
That would be a fairly reasonable trade. Perhaps not McNally since Minnesota fans have tossed him around for Clutterbuck but the basis is there.

1st + Rodin/McNally for Cammalleri
Rodin/McNally + Greiner for Clutterbuck
Schneider for Philly's 1st, Talbot and possibly prospect

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Mike Cammalleri ($3.000m—50.0%) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($2.000m)
Dale Weise ($0.677m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.500m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
Andrew Alberts ($0.750m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,479,278; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $820,722
------------------------------------

1st + Rodin/McNally for Cammalleri
Rodin/McNally + Greiner for Clutterbuck
Edler for Eriksson (likely a package but just doing those two for now)
Luongo for picks


FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Loui Eriksson ($4.250m)
Mike Cammalleri ($3.000m—50.0%) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Jannik Hansen ($1.350m) / Jeff Halpern ($0.750m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($2.000m)
Dale Weise ($0.677m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.500m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Mark Streit ($4.600m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
Andrew Alberts ($0.750m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,995,944; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $304,056
---------------------------------------


Regardless of the roster. That is the amount of depth I would love to have. When you can put guys like Hansen and/or Clutterbuck on your fourth line. You are absolutely stacked. We could keep Roy in the first roster posted, provided Luongo is traded and we opt for Halpern over Talbot. Roy would then take Cammalleri's place and we retain our first. So...

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Roy - Kesler - Burrows
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
Lapierre - Halpern - Clutterbuck

Garrison - Tanev
Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Corrado

Schneider
Lack


Last edited by Bourne Endeavor: 05-22-2013 at 02:41 AM.
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05-22-2013, 02:59 AM
  #922
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
After playing with capgeek the last hour... Burrows is way too expensive if he's not on the Sedin line.
I honestly would rather trade Burrows for a top prospect + 1st or something like that then buyout Booth.

Am I crazy?

Is my valuation completely off (regarding player values)?

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05-22-2013, 03:05 AM
  #923
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I was bored tonight and came up with this.

Canucks Team needs:
PP Quarterback
PK/FO specialist
Scoring Depth

Flyers team needs:
#1 D-man
Starting goalie

Vancouver trades:
Alex Edler
Jordan Schroeder
Roberto Luongo

Philadelphia trades:
Sean Couturier
Erik Gustafsson
Wayne Simmonds
Ilya Bryzgalov

Sign:
David Steckel – I have him at 1.2 but it will likely take more than a 10% raise.

Canucks Lineup:
Sedin (6.1) Sedin (6.1) Burrows (4.5)
Kassian (.87) Kesler (5) Simmonds (3.95)
Higgins (2.5) Couturier (1.375) Hansen (1.35)
??? Steckel (1.2) ???
???
Hamhuis (4.5) Bieksa (4.6)
Garrison (4.6) Tanev (1.2)
Gustafsson (1.2) Corrado (.599)
???

Schneider (4)
???

Cap total= 53.644 Million with 5 spots to fill

Buy out:
Bryzgalov and one of Ballard or Booth if either can’t be traded or picked up on waiver, though both should be movable for next to nothing as they can still be valuable pieces.

New additions:
Couturier - gives us a big 3rd line centre that can play at both ends of the ice, if he develops chemistry with Higgins and Hansen, look out for that line.
Simmonds - what needs to be said signed for term at a decent price, big young and can chip in.
Gustafsson - has the potential to be the offensive D-man we need to help our transition game and he gives us a cheap left handed D-man who has played 20+ minutes in Philly.
Steckel - the 4th line centre we need, can PK wins draws and is left handed so he compliments Kesler giving us a dominant RH centre and LH centre

Subtractions:
Edler - hard to replace but we still have a good unit with Tanev showing a great defensive game this year and that he is probably ready for 2nd pairing minutes. This new look D gives us L/R balance with 3 of the top 4 guys still capable of putting up points and a 3rd pairing that could feed off of PP minutes(Gustafsson) and take advantage of playing against lesser opponents, though there is the possibility of being exposed on the road.
Schroeder - a small pivot not really built for the traditional 3rd line role and I fear what the Pacific Division teams would do to the 3rd line against him, it’s not that I don’t think he was good this year I liked his game but Couturier is the ideal 3rd line centre with the potential to move into a bigger role as he gains experience (learning from a couple of guys like the Sedin twins who were also questioned for their skating helps)
Luongo – this is self-explanatory, Philly’s situation with Bryzgalov can mask the “horrid” contract that Luongo has and we can use a compliance buy out to take care of this problem, yes it’s a lot of money but the Aquilini’s make a lot of money off of this team and its success (team is now valued at over 300 million) and we get something of value in the trade.

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05-22-2013, 03:29 AM
  #924
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There are a few Detroit fans that think Franzen needs a change of scenery and would thrive on the Sedin line, while sending Burrows the other way.

Personally, I'd keep Franzen in Detroit, but thought I'd toss this onto the table for you all to consider. And yes, he'd thrive like crazy on the Sedin line.

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05-22-2013, 03:30 AM
  #925
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I honestly would rather trade Burrows for a top prospect + 1st or something like that then buyout Booth.

Am I crazy?

Is my valuation completely off (regarding player values)?
Only if you think Burrows commands that much value. I would say a first alone is enough. Much as I love Burrows, he means far more to us than any other team in the league. Consider for a moment what your reasons are for trading him: may be overpaid; thirty. Every other team is going to be thinking the same and most certainly are not about to hand over a top prospect and their first. Look at huge aggressive Pittsburgh and Boston were in their refusal to do just that.

Value aside, Burrows was essentially paid chump change for all his success here and perception would be highly negative on our reputation to trade him now. I also believe it would spend the wrong message to the dressing room, especially to Kesler and Bieksa.

For those reasons, I cite Burrows untouchable, if only due to circumstance; his value isn't there on the market and his departure would set in a slew of negatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown View Post
Vancouver trades:
Alex Edler
Jordan Schroeder
Roberto Luongo

Philadelphia trades:
Sean Couturier
Erik Gustafsson
Wayne Simmonds
Ilya Bryzgalov
If we are going the buyout route, then Luongo is who we do so with not another goalie. When Lu retired we were be stuck with dead cap, whereas buying him out alleviates us of that issue. Therefore, if we are not getting value for him via trade, it is far more beneficial to go that route. Nevertheless, this is a horrible deal for the Flyers. Simmonds is the definition of untouchable; young, career year, big power-forward. Everything we want Kassian to become they have.

That leaves Edler for Gusafsson and Couturier. Value wise, it is fair however I tend to favor Chris' argument a while back. Considering how determined Holmgren was to not trade Couturier, I have my doubts they deviate from that course. He is their best defensive centre and being the gambler I am, see them liable to test him or even Giroux on the wing before a trade is made, unless it is a blatant overpayment, which this is not.

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