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Oilers forwards vs Avalanche forwards

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Old
05-22-2013, 01:21 AM
  #26
smackdaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
Passing on a talent like Jones makes no sense if you're the Avs' GM.

1. Avs need defense
2. Avs have some depth/ talent at C position already
3. Jones is BPA

But, if you want to allow Seth Jones to "fall" to Florida, then by all means go right ahead! We need either a potential 1C or 1D. Jones or MacK will go a long way here.

IMO, Jones to Colorado and MacKinnon to Florida is the best case scenario for both markets.
In a competent management environment, it goes

1. BPA
2. BPA
3. BPA

What you're implying here is that if Jones wasn't a consensus #1 that the Avs should draft him anyway. Wrong line of thinking.

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Old
05-22-2013, 01:48 AM
  #27
thadd
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If Colorado drafts Jones(and they will) Edmonton has it.

1st line forwards: Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov
2nd line forwards: Gagner
3rd line forwards: Magnus
4th line forwards: Hartikainen

Just talking about the young guys there.

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Old
05-22-2013, 01:57 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Hallidays View Post
The difference is Edmonton has 3 potentially ELITE players (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle), while Colorado has some very nice players and a more balanced group I would say only 2 have "elite" potential (Duchene, Landeskog)
Don't consider Eberle "elite"

Eberle = O'Reilly.

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Old
05-22-2013, 02:02 AM
  #29
Crabapple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver Canucks View Post
Don't consider Eberle "elite"
I agree with this. Oils 3 Elite are Hall, Nuge, Yak, and Colorado has Duchene, Lando, and soon the be Jones.

I like the balance of the Avs young guys, but I do believe that the best 2 of the bunch will be Hall and RNH

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Old
05-22-2013, 02:19 AM
  #30
Joe Sakic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
Passing on a talent like Jones makes no sense if you're the Avs' GM.

1. Avs need defense
2. Avs have some depth/ talent at C position already
3. Jones is BPA

But, if you want to allow Seth Jones to "fall" to Florida, then by all means go right ahead! We need either a potential 1C or 1D. Jones or MacK will go a long way here.

IMO, Jones to Colorado and MacKinnon to Florida is the best case scenario for both markets.
It's just in my opinion Jones isn't BPA and I'm not keen on drafting a defenseman that high. I don't want a future 'Erik Johnson' at the expense of passing up on a future 'Jonathan Toews' or 'Nicklas Backstrom'.

Time will tell though.

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Old
05-22-2013, 02:45 AM
  #31
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even if we draft mackinnon i would take the oilers, on the other hand i like the avs depth with guys like mcginn downie jones who are very effective 3rd liners.

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Old
05-22-2013, 02:49 AM
  #32
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AVs issues go way deeper than the forwards. Why would Kyperos even go there in this debate? It's pretty glaring what the area of need for Colorado is and they have probably the most touted answer to that solution in recent draft memory staring them in the face. And they're going to pass on it? Would make NO sense.

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Old
05-22-2013, 05:06 AM
  #33
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Poor Erik Johnson. He's gonna be replaced by the better younger franchise defenceman again.

Wonder where he will go?

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Old
05-22-2013, 05:08 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie View Post
Are you seriously saying that drafting someone to be a second line center (at least in short term) fills a need?
MacK:s game is actually more suited for wing, however, he've worked so hard on becoming a complete center that it would be a waste if he didn't play center.

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Old
05-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #35
thevil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Hallidays View Post
The difference is Edmonton has 4 potentially ELITE players (Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle), while Colorado has some very nice players and a more balanced group I would say only 2 have "elite" potential (Duchene, Landeskog)
If Duchene and PAP click like they did last season for the next couple seasons, PAP could easily be considered an "elite" player. He was completely on par with Duchene every step of the way last season.

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Old
05-22-2013, 09:16 AM
  #36
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It'll be interesting to see who the Avs draft .

D take longer to develop regardless of how talented they are and drafting Jones won't fix there problems in the immediate future . If they're looking to try to win sooner they could draft Mac and deal ROR and PS to improve there D .

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Old
05-22-2013, 09:20 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
If Colorado drafts Jones(and they will) Edmonton has it.

1st line forwards: Hall, Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov
2nd line forwards: Gagner
3rd line forwards: Magnus
4th line forwards: Hartikainen

Just talking about the young guys there.
I wouldn't call gagner young...

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Old
05-22-2013, 09:35 AM
  #38
AaronEkbald
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
In a competent management environment, it goes

1. BPA
2. BPA
3. BPA

What you're implying here is that if Jones wasn't a consensus #1 that the Avs should draft him anyway. Wrong line of thinking.
No. I believe they should draft BPA. I'm also pointing out that it would be the right decision as well in terms of their needs.

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Old
05-22-2013, 09:49 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
It'll be interesting to see who the Avs draft .

D take longer to develop regardless of how talented they are and drafting Jones won't fix there problems in the immediate future . If they're looking to try to win sooner they could draft Mac and deal ROR and PS to improve there D .
Excluding that O'Reilly can't be traded in the near future.

If Avs are smart they just take their time to build and there's easily enough time to wait that Eliott/Barrie/Siemens/Jones group develops.

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05-22-2013, 10:05 AM
  #40
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drij View Post
I wouldn't call gagner young...
Is 23 years old too old on these boards? Jeez next you're going to tell me Iggy is almost as old as Lidstrom.

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Old
05-22-2013, 10:07 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drij View Post
I wouldn't call gagner young...
Yeah at 23 years old his best days are clearly behind him.

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Old
05-22-2013, 10:45 AM
  #42
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i wouldn't call gagner young...
lol!!

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:00 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Key word there is potential.

Duchene is proven and will grow more.
ROR is proven and will grow more.
Stastny is proven, though has been more on the decline.
Landeskog more potential than proven at this point.

And you wanna know the best part about this? None of them were 1st overall.

With that said I agree with you.
Hall was the second leading scorer in the Western Conference this past season - proven.
Eberle has scored 29 more points than ROR in 70 less games - proven.
Gagner - drafted 2 years after Stastny but trending in the opposite direction - proven
RNH more potential than proven at this point.
Yakupov more potential than proven at this point.

Do you you want to know the best part about this? Come next season Colorado will be dressing more guys picked in the top 3 of recent drafts than the Oilers will.

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:13 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Hall was the second leading scorer in the Western Conference this past season - proven.
Eberle has scored 29 more points than ROR in 70 less games - proven.
Gagner - drafted 2 years after Stastny but trending in the opposite direction - proven
RNH more potential than proven at this point.
Yakupov more potential than proven at this point.

Do you you want to know the best part about this? Come next season Colorado will be dressing more guys picked in the top 3 of recent drafts than the Oilers will.
Hall has had one great (shortened) season, and a couple of sub-par, injury riddled seasons. I fully believe the Hall from this past year is the Hall we'll see from this point forward, but he hasn't proven he can stay healthy over 82 games, much less that he can sustain that level of offense.
Eberle has played under 200 games, somehow that's an argument that he's proven? Because in that time he's outscored a defensive specialist that played a mostly third line role? At this point in his career, Paul Stastny was a PPG center with a great two way game. **** happens.
Gagner isn't trending in any direction. Other than an anomalous lockout season, he's been a 40-50 point per 82 game season scorer. In the same period of time, Stastny has been a 50-80 point center (often with the worst wingers on the team) who plays a great defensive game. Gagner is, at best, proven mediocre.

As for the last comment, one of those players came via trade. The "worst team in the league" count still favors the Oilers 2-0.

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:50 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
Passing on a talent like Jones makes no sense if you're the Avs' GM.

1. Avs need defense
2. Avs have some depth/ talent at C position already

3. Jones is BPA

But, if you want to allow Seth Jones to "fall" to Florida, then by all means go right ahead! We need either a potential 1C or 1D. Jones or MacK will go a long way here.

IMO, Jones to Colorado and MacKinnon to Florida is the best case scenario for both markets.
Bolded is completely irrelevant and I can assure you that if Rick Pracey sees Mac as the BPA he'll pick him not Jones.

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:59 AM
  #46
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If Colorado drafts MacKinnon, Stastny can be moved for a dman. There are lots of teams who could use him.



Duchene Mackinnon ROR is pretty sick

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:01 PM
  #47
Allen Degenerate
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
If Colorado drafts MacKinnon, Stastny can be moved for a dman. There are lots of teams who could use him.
If trade proposals are any indication, we wouldn't get back anything significant enough to really improve the defense.

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:05 PM
  #48
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Mackinnon is BPA

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:08 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
I wouldn't call gagner young...
23 isn't young? Many current NHL stars weren't doing anything of note at 23

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:42 PM
  #50
worraps
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Originally Posted by Chaos Engine View Post
Hall has had one great (shortened) season, and a couple of sub-par, injury riddled seasons. I fully believe the Hall from this past year is the Hall we'll see from this point forward, but he hasn't proven he can stay healthy over 82 games, much less that he can sustain that level of offense.
Eberle has played under 200 games, somehow that's an argument that he's proven? Because in that time he's outscored a defensive specialist that played a mostly third line role? At this point in his career, Paul Stastny was a PPG center with a great two way game. **** happens.
Gagner isn't trending in any direction. Other than an anomalous lockout season, he's been a 40-50 point per 82 game season scorer. In the same period of time, Stastny has been a 50-80 point center (often with the worst wingers on the team) who plays a great defensive game. Gagner is, at best, proven mediocre.

As for the last comment, one of those players came via trade. The "worst team in the league" count still favors the Oilers 2-0.
Check out Hall's "sub-par seasons" with par being John Tavares:

Rookie season: Taylor Hall - 0.65 ppg, John Tavares - 0.64 ppg
Sophomore season: Taylor Hall - 0.87 ppg, John Tavares - 0.85 ppg
Third season: Taylor Hall - 1.04, John Tavares - 0.99 ppg

Is Hart Trophy nominee John Tavares proven? BTW Hall has outscored the 'proven' Matt Duchene in all but his rookie season with more games lost to injury.

Eberle has proven himself at every level and only finished 6 points behind Duchene this season despite playing with a broken finger. How did Duchene do at playing through injury last year?

If you think a 40-50 point second line centre is mediocre I don't know what to tell you.


Last edited by worraps: 05-22-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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