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Old
05-21-2013, 01:20 PM
  #301
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't know why people bother arguing with you. You obviously have an agenda and nobody with common sense can seem to reason with you.

If you think Glachenyuk is already a better overall player than Deshanais then you are beyond help, because NOBODY on the roster had more sheltered minutes than him

Don't get me wrong, I love his skill and upside and I think he will be 3x the player Desharnais is in 2-3 years, but RIGHT NOW, he has a lot to work on to not be a liability in certain sutuations.
Galchenyuk wasn't getting sheltered in terms of opposition he played against any more than Desharnais (statistically, DD was actually sheltered more). He was sheltered more in the sense of keeping him away from difficult situations like protecting leads. Even in terms of zone starts, DD had a higher Off-Zone %.

Neither DD or Galckenyuk/Eller faced opposition top lines.

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05-21-2013, 01:21 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
Hi everyone,

I wanted to know what you guyz think of the possibility to trade Subban.

for real, hes my favorite player out there, but tradding Subban might be Bergevin idea this summer.

-Fact is that Subban is going to cost alot next season, is MB willingto pay that much? IDK
-Subban is worth so much right now, MG could get mostly anyting he want with him.
-On MB post-season conference, he was quite quiet about Subban performances, saying he could take nothing for sure, safe.
-Not to talk about contract dispute where MB have been quite cheap on Subban salary.
No way in hell do they trade Subban.

I think the reasom MB did that is because he wants PK to keep working on his game and not think he has "arrived" and has nothing to improve on.

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05-21-2013, 01:22 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Galchenyuk wasn't getting sheltered in terms of opposition he played against any more than Desharnais (statistically, DD was actually sheltered more). He was sheltered more in the sense of keeping him away from difficult situations like protecting leads.

Neither DD or Galckenyuk/Eller faced opposition top lines.
After Eller got hurt DD got a lot more defensive zone starts and tougher matchups. Galchenyuk was given easier ones and still struggled mightily in his own end.

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:44 PM
  #304
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
After Eller got hurt DD got a lot more defensive zone starts and tougher matchups. Galchenyuk was given easier ones and still struggled mightily in his own end.
Ignoring the odd use of playoff production from a series Habs got their ***** handed to them to extrapolate future regular season success/ability...


'A LOT' more is a stretch, he went from 61.1% to 54.3% while Galchenyuk went from 58.5% to 60.0%.

MTL: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...4+45++46+47+48

OTT: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...44+45+46+47+48

Not sure your claim is accurate. Galchenyuk seemed to have faced as much if not more tougher offensive opposition on average, he faced the Alfredsson line enough to have him in his top 10 opposition.

Furthermore, extrapolating playoff performance only enhances the argument of Desharnais being better off leaving. Even with Galchenyuk's struggles in the blowout losses, his offensive production 5 on 5 was higher than Desharnais' production in the regular season.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 05-21-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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05-21-2013, 02:30 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Ignoring the odd use of playoff production from a series Habs got their ***** handed to them to extrapolate future regular season success/ability...


'A LOT' more is a stretch, he went from 61.1% to 54.3% while Galchenyuk went from 58.5% to 60.0%.

MTL: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...4+45++46+47+48

OTT: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...44+45+46+47+48

Not sure your claim is accurate. Galchenyuk seemed to have faced as much if not more tougher offensive opposition on average, he faced the Alfredsson line enough to have him in his top 10 opposition.

Furthermore, extrapolating playoff performance only enhances the argument of Desharnais being better off leaving. Even with Galchenyuk's struggles in the blowout losses, his offensive production 5 on 5 was higher than Desharnais' production in the regular season.
Not sure about what you're saying, but I don't recall Galchenyuk with a defensive zone faceoff until game 4 or 5 when Halpern was put on his line. By putting Halpern on his line it was pretty clear that the coaching staff felt that Galchenyuk couldn't handle the center defensive responsibilities by moving him back to LW and putting him with a defensive specialist.

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Old
05-21-2013, 02:53 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Not sure about what you're saying, but I don't recall Galchenyuk with a defensive zone faceoff until game 4 or 5 when Halpern was put on his line. By putting Halpern on his line it was pretty clear that the coaching staff felt that Galchenyuk couldn't handle the center defensive responsibilities by moving him back to LW and putting him with a defensive specialist.
You don't have to remember, these things are tracked: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...61+62+64+65+66

Desharnais had 16 D zone starts while Galchenyuk had 12 D zone starts
Desharnais had 19 O zone starts while Galchenyuk had 18 O zone starts

I'm not sure what you're saying by extrapolating a couple games from the playoffs to project an opinion of Galchenyuk not being able to play the role of soft D minute/good linemate/offensive role that Desharnais had the last couple seasons.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 05-21-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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Old
05-21-2013, 03:23 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
You don't have to remember, these things are tracked: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...61+62+64+65+66

Desharnais had 16 D zone starts while Galchenyuk had 12 D zone starts
Desharnais had 19 O zone starts while Galchenyuk had 18 O zone starts

I'm not sure what you're saying by extrapolating a couple games from the playoffs to project an opinion of Galchenyuk not being able to play the role of soft D minute/good linemate/offensive role that Desharnais had the last couple seasons.
Those stats don't show only Galchenyuk at center as in game 2 and 3(I believe Halpern moved him back to lw in games 4 and 5). There is a difference between trusting a guy as a Lw and trusting him as the center(who is basically the 3rd d-man in the defensive zone).

Not saying Desharnais is great defensively, but he is a notch above where Galchenyuk is. It's a moot point because A-Desharnais is not getting traded B Galchenyuk will play LW barring injury

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Old
05-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I don't think it's legitimate to ignore that the Habs were comprehensively demolished by their division rivals this season. Our second place ranking came entirely from beating up on the rest of the conference, which is on average softer.

Had we faced the Rangers, the Penguins, or the Capitals in the first round, we might be in the second round right now. Instead we faced a tough team and thus were neutralized, Canadiens players were basically dominated, rounded up, and executed. The Habs lack full-spectrum excellence at this time, we match up very well against one style and very poorly against another style. The style we match up poorly against is precisely that of our division rivals, whom we face more often than other teams.

I am in complete agreement with your last paragraph.
LShap made a good point in another thread, when we played our game we did well against Ottawa. And quite frankly we didn't go to the net. Going to the net is a simple thing but we just didn't do it and for the life of me I don't know why. You can't score in the playoffs unless you're screening the goalie and getting in his face. Series could've gone either way but we didn't do this and it killed us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
So who stays and who goes?
On my trading block:

Karberle-you never know but morelikely buy out

Diaz-Good player, but we need balance on D and should have decent value

DD-Looks like the odd man out this time around. Would it be easier if he wasn't Quebecois? I see a trade t with him to make a move or room for an other trade.

Max Pacioretty-Yes him.Why?Well, if you really want a stud in a trade, you usely need to give one up. The price has to be good no dought.

Bourque-Give us a good year but in a trade perhaps he could fetch something we need, again, the price here would have to make sense.

Markov-It's hard for me to put him there but if I'm MB, I would listen to all offers and see if they make sense.
A huge 'no' on Max. No way we should trade him. As for DD, I'd actually really like us to deal him. Not because I think he's bad but he's just so freaking small and we're too small up front as it is. I doubt he goes though.

Gionta would be on my list. DD too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
Hi everyone,

I wanted to know what you guyz think of the possibility to trade Subban.

for real, hes my favorite player out there, but tradding Subban might be Bergevin idea this summer.

-Fact is that Subban is going to cost alot next season, is MB willingto pay that much? IDK
-Subban is worth so much right now, MG could get mostly anyting he want with him.
-On MB post-season conference, he was quite quiet about Subban performances, saying he could take nothing for sure, safe.
-Not to talk about contract dispute where MB have been quite cheap on Subban salary.
Pretty much zero.

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Old
05-22-2013, 03:36 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
Hi everyone,

I wanted to know what you guyz think of the possibility to trade Subban.

for real, hes my favorite player out there, but tradding Subban might be Bergevin idea this summer.

-Fact is that Subban is going to cost alot next season, is MB willingto pay that much? IDK
-Subban is worth so much right now, MG could get mostly anyting he want with him.
-On MB post-season conference, he was quite quiet about Subban performances, saying he could take nothing for sure, safe.
-Not to talk about contract dispute where MB have been quite cheap on Subban salary.
#1 dmen don't grow on trees. when you have one, you keep it

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Old
05-22-2013, 03:57 PM
  #310
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Those stats don't show only Galchenyuk at center as in game 2 and 3(I believe Halpern moved him back to lw in games 4 and 5). There is a difference between trusting a guy as a Lw and trusting him as the center(who is basically the 3rd d-man in the defensive zone).

Not saying Desharnais is great defensively, but he is a notch above where Galchenyuk is. It's a moot point because A-Desharnais is not getting traded B Galchenyuk will play LW barring injury
Well if that's your case then you're essentially basing your extrapolation off 1 game (game 3).

Regardless, I would agree with the sentiment that Desharnais is untradeable - perhaps in a different sense in that I feel he doesn't have that much trade value to be worth trading but the end point is the same.

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Old
05-24-2013, 06:23 PM
  #311
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Markov has 54 playoff games and 19 points.
Subban has 26 playoff games with 16 points.

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Old
05-24-2013, 08:15 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
#1 dmen don't grow on trees. when you have one, you keep it
More to the point, the list of players more valuable to a team than a 23 year old who is legit Norris candidate is awfully tiny. I mean, are you proposing to go after somebody like John Tavares here? I'd say as a rule of thumb, if he's worth trading Subban for, he's not available.

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Old
05-25-2013, 01:39 PM
  #313
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I don't see how trading Subban would help the club, this team's biggest problem right now is team toughness and size/grit. Size is not much of an issue, grit is, and grit in our size guys is also something Bergevin has to work on. I'm not saying quick fixes this summer, but signing a guy like Clowe/Clarkson/Bickell/Bordeleau would be a step in the right direction. Montreal doesn't really have any issues other than size, that is if Carey gets his head out of his ass...

We have: Scoring depth, elite goalie, #1 d-man, good mix of two-ways, powerforwards and sniper/play makers.

We lack: Size/Grit on our top6 and D, true #1 Center(in the making), good defensive-D (Tinordi in the making), solid 4rth line.

That is why down the road we will be a good team, but for now we lack a couple of things.

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Old
05-27-2013, 11:30 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
I don't see how trading Subban would help the club, this team's biggest problem right now is team toughness and size/grit. Size is not much of an issue, grit is, and grit in our size guys is also something Bergevin has to work on. I'm not saying quick fixes this summer, but signing a guy like Clowe/Clarkson/Bickell/Bordeleau would be a step in the right direction. Montreal doesn't really have any issues other than size, that is if Carey gets his head out of his ass...

We have: Scoring depth, elite goalie, #1 d-man, good mix of two-ways, powerforwards and sniper/play makers.

We lack: Size/Grit on our top6 and D, true #1 Center(in the making), good defensive-D (Tinordi in the making), solid 4rth line.

That is why down the road we will be a good team, but for now we lack a couple of things.
Agree with you except that we have to get rid of Plekanec. If we can make a push for a guy like Statsny + add 2 Clowe/Clarkson/Bickell type players + a Bordeleau, we're good. We really need to stop falling in love with our depth players. You can't have a guy like Josh Gorges in your line up at 3.9 millions if you don't have at least 2 6'4 type players.

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05-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
Agree with you except that we have to get rid of Plekanec. If we can make a push for a guy like Statsny + add 2 Clowe/Clarkson/Bickell type players + a Bordeleau, we're good. We really need to stop falling in love with our depth players. You can't have a guy like Josh Gorges in your line up at 3.9 millions if you don't have at least 2 6'4 type players.
Pleks is our best player year in and year out, eventually he'll get some respect.

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