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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 4)

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:48 PM
  #926
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
If you want proof, go dig it up, it's easily verifiable, I don't feel like giving history lessons here. The information is readily available.
And, in fact, it has been explored in depth on the History Board of this very site numerous times. It's not a huge factor, but affects significant digits in the SV%, if I'm not mistaken.

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05-21-2013, 08:01 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
what matters are results.and by that i mean winning.who cares if he is voted best in some random poll.at the end of the day all that matters is delivering wins on a consistent basis .at 6 mil per i EXPECT him to deliver and carry the team.he has not done that.
He did deliver wins on a consistent basis though.

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05-21-2013, 08:05 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by CP31 View Post
I'd really like to hear who says he is a top 5 goalie based on potential. TSN had him in their top 50 last year, with 3 goalies ahead of him, and this year they said he just missed out. TSN also had a halfway point of the season show this year, and what do you know he was ranked 1st (or 2nd, cant remember is Anderson was Ahead of him) in the East. This should also show that he indeed was having a very good season before the collapse. Not to mention the coaches in the east voted him as the best (but I am aware that to you this doesn't matter at all).
Really?

What are you talking about bob mckenzies informal poll of some coaches who mentioned Carey Price but who by consensus would choose Anderson for Vezina ? Is that the one or was there another survey?

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05-21-2013, 08:09 PM
  #929
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problem is he delivers just as many losses.his playoff record is atrocious as well.you think thats worth 6 mil per?again i dont want him gone,but he needs to step up LARGE nexzt year or its gonna get really painful for him in montreal.

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05-21-2013, 08:47 PM
  #930
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Too many posts to go through but I'll touch on a few...
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
With the BIGGEST QUESTION MARK ever....can Luongo be a winner? Is he just satisfied to be a good regular season goalie? There was always a big question mark to this great goalie...question mark that shouldn't be beside the list of "great goalies"...Yes, our D was bad...we didn't acquire Kaberle to make our D better, we thought we needed a puck-moving d-man mostly for our PP. As far as who would have done what with us....honestly we do not know. You also know what confidence does to people. You have a goalie who's continuously make the big saves, you know that it reflects on the players in front of him. If we take this year for example, the average play of Price reflected on the rest of the team....like surely the average play of our D reflected on Price himself. They fed from each other in the playoffs....negatively of course. But you add a Quick for us, and I'm sorry, we do not lose in 5. Do we lose? Moot point, we don't know. But we have a better chance.
Luongo wasn't the problem. He stole two games for them. Two 1-0 shutouts and a 3-2 win. Team only scored 3 goals for him once and it was a win. Can't win if you can't score. And Luongo was good enough to win Olympic gold under incredible pressure. He's certainly been a top goalie for years.

Henrik Lundqvist has a losing postseason record. Is he not good enough to win either or is it the team in front of him?
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But both of your examples don't many any sense as both of these guys brought their game to another level pretty consistently. What Price wasn't able to do consistantly. So not only he is not consistent in the regular season, but he doesn't have playoff success as well. And for the record, yes....Thornton was blamed for his lack of success in the playoffs. And frankly, it's not like he never had any points in it...it's because people were expected more out of him. So he doesn't have all the blame 'cause that's the nature of the beast. The tougheset position of them all is goaltending. They will be the first one to blame as their mistake create a goal compared to another player's mistake that could ALWAYS be corrected by the goalie. We've been targeting Nashville as a really bad team and borderline miraculous to see that they were always in despite of it, the greatest reason being Rinne. They also had a good duo with Weber-Suter as well, but Rinne was doing miracles on top of miracles. I saw 1 year of miracles from Price. And 1 series.

By the way, I'M not expecting miracles from Price anymore. Just need a goalie that will give us a chance to win. With a save% around .920.
Thornton is in his mid 30s, his career is written. Price is just coming into his prime and hasn't had the benefit of a team that can sniff a cup.

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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
He is definitely on the ropes at this point though, he simply needs to be better. He gets paid like a top goalie and there is little doubt he hasn't played like one since the 2011 playoffs. I was critical of the signing then and I still am to this day, I thought it was a massive over commitment to a player that has proved little to date. Price's problem is strictly between the ears, it's all in his head. It's a similar problem to Roberto Luongo at this point, the problem isn't the athlete's abilities so much as it is his confidence.

I would not be surprised at all if Bergevin is shopping him in some capacity, especially if he can land a goalie with similar career numbers that has a substantially easier contract to swallow.
I don't agree. He's played very well up until the crash. Last year and that was a trainwreck of a team and he was very strong.
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post

A top 5 goalie making 6.5 million a year isn't supposed to be carried by the team. He is supposed to contribute to the team, to make the team better in its own right.
He dragged us into the playoffs in 2011 making next to nothing. Couldn't do it last year but who could?

Teams would line up to trade for him. He's carried the team in the past and that contract is no problem at all. Bryzgalov, Luongo... I could understand it if you brought that up because we'd have something to be worried about.

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05-21-2013, 08:50 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Really?

What are you talking about bob mckenzies informal poll of some coaches who mentioned Carey Price but who by consensus would choose Anderson for Vezina ? Is that the one or was there another survey?
The one of all the Eastern conference coaches who voted and had Price as #1 for the Vezina.

So at worse they would've had Price #2?

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05-21-2013, 09:08 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by CP31 View Post
Figured you'd say that. All hail the all-knowing hockeyfan2k11.
For the love of...

If he managed a top 10 sv%/GAA and/or was clutch then I could say you make a valid argument...but the guy is consistently mid/low tier in these categories not to mention has struggled when it matters and you're trying to tell me to disregard all that because some anonymous GMs in a poll said he was top 5?

I wonder what their response would be if Price was 35. Again, Price is one of the better young goalies out there when you consider potential. That is why GMs like him. I can also tell you GMs have not watched as many games as I have on Carey.

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05-21-2013, 09:31 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
All the things you implied I said are incorrect. I never said that the sole reason we lost games was because of one goalie, specifically Carey Price.

What I did say, was that our shot differential was top tier in the entire league. The correlation between shot differential and qualifying for the playoffs is pretty astounding. I was debunking the myth that we gave up an extraordinary amount of scoring chances despite the low shot totals. It simply isn't true. Budaj, for the most part played under the same D and won 8 out of 10 starts. Not to say Budaj is a better goalie than Price, I don't believe that to be the case. His sample size is small and he has a history that can't be ignored, however, he played well this year, but the strong D was primarily responsible for that. Not Budaj himself.

There has been study after study done that shows shot quality as a whole has very little meaning. Shots generated is the driver force to goals. We gave up the 5th fewest, if you honestly believe our D gave up the 5th fewest shots, but the 5th most scoring chances, or whatever snake oil you're trying to sell, You are full of it, plain and simple.

I've watched every habs game for the last 10 years aside for one that a missed the first period of, this season. Try again.

We had the shot differential strongly in our favor even though we led plenty of games. The score plays a factor in Shot differential as teams leading tend to get out shot as they either sit back or the trailing team pushes forward.

What we seen during the meltdown was a goalie spotting the other team a 3 goal lead before the end of the first period, sometimes on 4 shots. From this point forward there is going to be a disproportionate amount of odd man rushes as the team who spotted the 3 goal lead now has to take risks they normally wouldn't take. They looked bad, but Price contributed greatly as to why they looked bad. They were playing 1, 2, 3 behind 10minutes into the first.

It sounds to me like your position is entirely based on emotion and not on merit. I'm beginning to believe it was you who didn't watch the games. I don't believe what everyone tells me just because they tell me it. I do this real Neanderthal thing, called thinking.
Im going to address both of you in the same reply because I feel like i'm hearing similar arguments.

Carey Price is a top 5 goalie, not only based on potential, but a bunch of factors. Age, experience, stats given his age.

Now, he's not a clutch playoff performer yet, but again he's no Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur. Let's wait a bit (1 year at least if they're in the playoffs) to see if he actually "elevates [his] game to another level".

I want to iterate this for the last time: if Carey Price had a sniff, as another poster wrote, of a Stanley Cup winning team, aka he was on a team like, say, the LOS ANGELES KINGS, then would his stats over the years still be as bad as you all say they are. Not counting that bad stretch during the end of the season, as stated by many EASTERN CONFERENCE COACHES, they named Carey Price as their favourite of the Eastern Conference as a Vezina winner. Now obviously they don't make the Vezina selection and it doesn't take in effect the whole season, but he was playing well throuhg at least half the season.

I mean look at each season objectively, especially 2011-12 where the team was an ultimate cluster**** through at least the first half. His stats, are superb given his age.

If you don't take this into account when you make decisions on who is in ur top 5 or not, then you're just being the classic "scouts" that i'm glad aren't actually scouts.

I hope i've made my case very apparent. If not, oh well, let's agree to disagree.

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Old
05-21-2013, 10:09 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Carey Price is a top 5 goalie, not only based on potential, but a bunch of factors. Age, experience, stats given his age.
So actual production and results compared to his peers have nothing to do with why you consider him top 5?

Mind = blown

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05-21-2013, 10:31 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
The one of all the Eastern conference coaches who voted and had Price as #1 for the Vezina.

So at worse they would've had Price #2?
I guess all means 12 in the new math.

Obviously a practical joke on bob because in the real vote Price is not even nominated.

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05-21-2013, 10:33 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
For the love of...

If he managed a top 10 sv%/GAA and/or was clutch then I could say you make a valid argument...but the guy is consistently mid/low tier in these categories not to mention has struggled when it matters and you're trying to tell me to disregard all that because some anonymous GMs in a poll said he was top 5?

I wonder what their response would be if Price was 35. Again, Price is one of the better young goalies out there when you consider potential. That is why GMs like him. I can also tell you GMs have not watched as many games as I have on Carey.
It was shown to you... you continue to ignore it. tied for 6th. And two of those goalies became backups.

But keep holding your hands over your ears.

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05-21-2013, 10:38 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So actual production and results compared to his peers have nothing to do with why you consider him top 5?

Mind = blown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It was shown to you... you continue to ignore it. tied for 6th. And two of those goalies became backups.

But keep holding your hands over your ears.
In theory, you are both right. Price is on the cusp of either solidifying his role as a dominant young goalie, or he is beginning his slide to overrated mediocrity. Depends on how you want to look at it.

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05-21-2013, 11:16 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
In theory, you are both right. Price is on the cusp of either solidifying his role as a dominant young goalie, or he is beginning his slide to overrated mediocrity. Depends on how you want to look at it.
Like I said, he's coming off an inconsistent season. And if he wants to be considered as an elite goalie going forward he'll have to be better next year.

But to say that he hasn't been good up until now is silly.

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05-21-2013, 11:16 PM
  #939
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Just got finished watching the B's and Rags highlites on nhl.com.
Funny enough, Rask only has 23 shots. Didn't have to make any great stops and let in a flutter shot from the blueline. Lundqvist had more shots and was steady. However, the 2 goals he allowed were pretty greasy. All 3 goals are similar to what we saw in the Ottawa series.
Who's to blame for these goals? I doubt fans of either team will outright blame the keeper like many here do.
What I didn't see is the goalie being hung out to dry on multiple occasions like our defense does.

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05-21-2013, 11:21 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Just got finished watching the B's and Rags highlites on nhl.com.
Funny enough, Rask only has 23 shots. Didn't have to make any great stops and let in a flutter shot from the blueline. Lundqvist had more shots and was steady. However, the 2 goals he allowed were pretty greasy. All 3 goals are similar to what we saw in the Ottawa series.
Who's to blame for these goals? I doubt fans of either team will outright blame the keeper like many here do.
What I didn't see is the goalie being hung out to dry on multiple occasions like our defense does.
I thought both goalies were good when they had to be. Problem with Lundquist is, he gets exposed because they do not score for him... sounds familiar right?

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05-21-2013, 11:25 PM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Welp...might as well close the thread. TSN has spoken!
Not to mention the players and coaches who also agree.

But hey, you've got Haburger on your side so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
That's actually why I was so against the contract length and size. He didn't earn it - and I'm a big believer in Price.
He earned it and then some in 2011 when he dragged the club into the playoffs. It's gravy for the owners after that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Just got finished watching the B's and Rags highlites on nhl.com.
Funny enough, Rask only has 23 shots. Didn't have to make any great stops and let in a flutter shot from the blueline. Lundqvist had more shots and was steady. However, the 2 goals he allowed were pretty greasy. All 3 goals are similar to what we saw in the Ottawa series.
Who's to blame for these goals? I doubt fans of either team will outright blame the keeper like many here do.
What I didn't see is the goalie being hung out to dry on multiple occasions like our defense does.
Lundqvist stopped three breakaways in the first period. He gave up a rebound on at least two of them, one difference is that his D was actually there for the rebounds whereas ours aren't.

Guy's an awesome goalie but I wouldn't say that his D was great tonight. You give up three breakaways in a period and something's wrong.

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05-21-2013, 11:27 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Like I said, he's coming off an inconsistent season. And if he wants to be considered as an elite goalie going forward he'll have to be better next year.

But to say that he hasn't been good up until now is silly.
He's been 'better', more than he's been 'bad'... I'll give him that. Sometimes I think Price believes he's #1 no matter what and he loses his drive for stretches. Then again, it must be tough playing behind this assembly of misfits and roster turnovers, I think stability on the blue-line and upfront will help.

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05-22-2013, 01:04 AM
  #943
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Carey needs to deliver in the next playoffs or else we'd go nowhere with a goalie that can't excel on a consistent basis given our smurfy top 6.

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05-22-2013, 06:15 AM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Like I said, he's coming off an inconsistent season. And if he wants to be considered as an elite goalie going forward he'll have to be better next year.

But to say that he hasn't been good up until now is silly.
But how will he be better with the same defense in front of him unless you think that this said defense will by itself improve for some reasons. Minus Emelin at the start of the season. I mean, I don't understand that. We keep hearing that it's because of the D's...yet, we haven't make one change yet that tells you it will be better. I guess we can think that Gorges will play better. And that Tinordi will improve, unless he's faced with a sophomore jinx. And that surprisingly enough, Markov will find a new speed. And that Diaz will not becoming from an injury again....But it's really wishful thinking.

But I can tell you that the ones who keeps defending him, and tries to say that Price needs to be better, will come back hard with the excuse if we don't make any DRASTIC changed to the D's. Mark my words.

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05-22-2013, 06:40 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I guess all means 12 in the new math.

Obviously a practical joke on bob because in the real vote Price is not even nominated.
So 80%? Wow, such a small number.

Because by then he wasn't Vezina worthy. The point is that for the first 2/3rds of the season he was until his injuries started bothering him.

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05-22-2013, 07:22 AM
  #946
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So 80%? Wow, such a small number.

Because by then he wasn't Vezina worthy. The point is that for the first 2/3rds of the season he was until his injuries started bothering him.
Respondents had to pick someone from the east. Meaningless survey and you know it.

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05-22-2013, 07:25 AM
  #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
So actual production and results compared to his peers have nothing to do with why you consider him top 5?

Mind = blown
Comparing to peers is hard when most of his peers are 5 years older than him and much more "experienced" and in their prime goaltending years. Let's take a look at all the goalies that were in the NHL during each season Price has played that is his EXACT age or within 1 year of him and played at least 40 games (like him).

2007-08
Price: MTL, 20 yo, 41 GP, 2.56 GAA, .920 Save % (pretty good year)
No other goalies, next closest is like Cam Ward and others aged 23.

2008-09
Price: MTL, 21 yo, 52 GP, 2.83 GAA, .905 Save % (bad year, came back from injury early)
Steve Mason: CBJ, 20 yo, 61 GP, 2.29 GAA, .916 Save % ( very good year [especially given the team in front of him], only one he had in CBJ)
Next closest is Jonathan Quick aged 23.

2009-10
Price: MTL, 22 yo, 41 GP, 2.77 GAA, .912 Save % (bad year, lost starting job to Halak)
Steve Mason: CBJ, 21 yo, 58 GP, 3.06 GAA, .901 Save % (crappy year)
Rask: BOS, 22 yo, 45 GP, 1.97 GAA, .931 Save % (incredible year and playing on a great Boston team whom a year later will win the Stanley Cup)
Pavelec: ATL, 22 yo, 42 GP, 3.29 GAA, .906 Save % (crappy year)
Next closest is Jonathan Quick aged 24.

2010-11
Price: MTL, 23 yo, 72 GP, 2.35 GAA, .923 Save % (very good year, also played at least 14 more games than any other goalie below)
Neuvirth: WSH, 22 yo, 48 GP, 2.45 GAA, .913 Save % (pretty good year)
Reimer (i'll include cuz it's close to 40 GP): TOR, 22 yo, 37 GP, 2.60 GAA, .921 Save % (good year)
Mason: CBJ, 22 yo, 54 GP, 3.03 GAA, .901 Save % (crappy year)
Bobrovsky: PHI, 22 yo, 54 GP, 2.59 GAA, .915 Save % (pretty good year)
Pavelec: ATL, 23 yo, 58 GP,2.73 GAA, .914 Save % (good year)
Dubnyk: EDM, 24 yo, 35 GP, 2.71 GAA, .916 Save % (good year)
Next closest is Jonathan Quick aged 25.

2011-12
Price: MTL, 24 yo, 65 GP, 2.43 GAA, .916 Save % (good year)
Varlamov: COL, 23 yo, 53 GP, 2.59 GAA, .913 Save % (good year)
Reimer: TOR, 23 yo, 34 GP, 3.10 GAA, .900 Save % (had a crappy year, concussion at the beginning of the year)
Neuvirth: WSH, 23 yo, 38 GP, 2.82 GAA, .903 Save % (really bad year)
Mason: CBJ, 23 yo, 46 GP, 3.39 GAA, .894 Save % (terrible year)
Pavelec: WPG, 24 yo, 68 GP, 2.91 GAA, .906 Save % (really bad year)
Devan Dubnyk: EDM, 25 yo, 2.67 GAA, .914 Save % (pretty good year)
Next closest is Jonathan Quick aged 26.

2012-13
Price: 25 yo, 39 GP, 2.59 GAA, .905 Save % (bad year)
Markstrom: 23 yo, 23 GP, 3.22 GAA, .901 Save % (terrible year, is a young goalie).
Holtby: 23 yo, 36 GP, 2.58 GAA, .920 Save % (pretty good year)
Varlamov: 24 yo, 35 GP, 3.02 GAA, .903 Save % (terrible year)
Reimer: 24 yo, 33 GP, 2.46 GAA, .924 Save % (very good year)
Mason: 24 yo, 20 GP, 2.59 GAA, .916 Save % (good year)
Lindback: 24 yo, 24 GP, 2.90 GAA, .902 Save % (really bad year)
Bobrovsky: 24 yo, 38 GP, 2.00 GAA, .932 Save % (vezina finalist type year)
Rask: 25 yo, 35 GP, 2.00 GAA, .929 Save % (amazing year)
Pavelecc: 25 yo, 44 GP, 2.80 GAA, .905 Save % (really bad year)
Schneider: 26 yo, 30 GP, 2.11 GAA, .927 Save % (amazing year)
Dubnyk: 26 yo, 38 GP, 2.57 GAA, .921 Save % (pretty good year)
Bishop: 26 yo, 22 GP, 2.67 GAA, .920 Save % (pretty good year)

Taking THESE stats into account, Carey Price at one point was the ONLY goalie in his age group in the NHL (in impeccable feature in itself) and through half a season, had a pretty good year. Other years where there were more than 3 goalies in his age group, he was in the top 3 in either 1 stat or both in all years except for last year and was top in BOTH stats two years running (2010-12).

So with that said, is Carey Price an elite goalie, given his age, stats at his age, experience as a young goaltender, ABSO-****ING-LUTELY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But how will he be better with the same defense in front of him unless you think that this said defense will by itself improve for some reasons. Minus Emelin at the start of the season. I mean, I don't understand that. We keep hearing that it's because of the D's...yet, we haven't make one change yet that tells you it will be better. I guess we can think that Gorges will play better. And that Tinordi will improve, unless he's faced with a sophomore jinx. And that surprisingly enough, Markov will find a new speed. And that Diaz will not becoming from an injury again....But it's really wishful thinking.

But I can tell you that the ones who keeps defending him, and tries to say that Price needs to be better, will come back hard with the excuse if we don't make any DRASTIC changed to the D's. Mark my words.
D will be better. One more year in the league for Tinordi, Diaz, Emelin (upon his return) will be good for the defense. However, they need more depth in their top 4 defense i think. Move Markov down to a 4th defenseman (2nd line pairing) with Emelin. Gorges should be a 5th defenseman with Diaz as the 6th defenseman (3rd line pairing). Add a strong defensive defenseman with Subban so that he can perform better offensively 5on5 and we have a solid group (7th Tinordi, 8th Bouillon after Emelin comes back, before he does, Tinordi plays 6th defenseman).

But Price will be better too. Put these two together and I don't see how Montreal can't fight for the division title and possibly win it again (we won it this year cuz 48-game schedule only, had this season gone 82-games, we would have been 4th.)

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05-22-2013, 07:33 AM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Respondents had to pick someone from the east. Meaningless survey and you know it.
LOL meaningless survey. A survey of highly intelligent hockey people (HEAD COACHES) where other great goalies in the Eastern Conference they could have selected are:

Rask
Lundqvist
Anderson (before he went down)
Miller
Brodeur
Fleury
Holtby
AND Price

And most of them picked...who was it again? Oh right CAREY PRICE.

Jesus get your heads out your ***** people. Price is staying for now and he's elite.

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05-22-2013, 07:45 AM
  #949
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
LOL meaningless survey. A survey of highly intelligent hockey people (HEAD COACHES) where other great goalies in the Eastern Conference they could have selected are:

Rask
Lundqvist
Anderson (before he went down)
Miller
Brodeur
Fleury
Holtby
AND Price

And most of them picked...who was it again? Oh right CAREY PRICE.

Jesus get your heads out your ***** people. Price is staying for now and he's elite.
I would sell your signed Carey Price junk if I were you , value is sinking like a stone just like Carey.

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05-22-2013, 07:48 AM
  #950
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But how will he be better with the same defense in front of him unless you think that this said defense will by itself improve for some reasons. Minus Emelin at the start of the season. I mean, I don't understand that. We keep hearing that it's because of the D's...yet, we haven't make one change yet that tells you it will be better. I guess we can think that Gorges will play better. And that Tinordi will improve, unless he's faced with a sophomore jinx. And that surprisingly enough, Markov will find a new speed. And that Diaz will not becoming from an injury again....But it's really wishful thinking.
I'm pretty sure I said that he was inconsistent this year. I didn't just say that it was all the D.

We had a terrible D the year before and he was great for us. That's what I expected this year and for the most part he was fine. As long as Price plays like he did in the previous two seasons and the first half of this year it's all good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But I can tell you that the ones who keeps defending him, and tries to say that Price needs to be better, will come back hard with the excuse if we don't make any DRASTIC changed to the D's. Mark my words.
I guess it depends on what's being said and how Price himself is playing.

He played great in 2012 but we didn't make the playoffs. It was in spite of his play not because of it. If he plays like that and folks freak out then yeah, you'll hear it because it won't be the fault of Price. If he plays like he did in the latter part of this year then no, because that's on the goalie. The five hole we saw in the latter part of this season isn't on the D.

My worry (and it's a worry about the team not Price) is that Markov is unreliable at this stage of his career. Emelin probably won't start the season with us and we'll probably have a couple of rookies in the lineup. As a group that's not good. I think Price can make up for this as he has in years past. But we NEED at least one PK specialist on the blueline. Hal Gill for all his faults would at least clear the crease and get to the rebounds if they were there.

And as an aside - At least we can score with some consistency now. That's a big plus that we haven't had in a long time. I like the young core we have. It is a good group but like I said, we're in that 'in between stage' that I was worried about. It's why I argued that we should've rebuilt earlier than we did. I said that Price would be coming into his prime years and if we put it off (which we did) that some of those years would be wasted because we'd have younger players coming in and developing while we should be focusing on winning instead. And that's kind of what's happening now. Young guys coming in, Markov being old... our D is a bit of a mess now. This past year exceeded my expectations by a million percent but we could drop back next year. We'll see I guess.

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