HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

New Arena Thread: Rogers Place? Yawn...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-22-2013, 11:52 AM
  #376
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
ftr I was stating the bolded just in general terms and not specific to Structal. Thats why I said slippery slope and reflecting concern with where things could lead to in the future. How would the economy be if some firm wanted to build a massive condo tower and felt forced to pick lowest bids? I'm just stating that in general terms.

As far as the regional Calgary plant at least thats good for Alberta, if not for Edmonton. So Edmonton public $ going out to feed Quebec and Calgary then. I feel so much better about that.
We aren't forced to take lowest bidder unless that's how the bid is setup.


The reason it's been outsourced is because the companies in Edmonton aren't being forced to work for so cheap. Why you might ask, because they have enough work in this economy. It's actually probably a good sign that things are being outsourced.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
05-22-2013, 11:54 AM
  #377
fysloc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 279
vCash: 50
Theres always talks about supporting local economy, but then I just remembered, the type of jobs where these funds are going are the type of jobs a majority of unemployed people refuse to do or do not have the skills to do. Everybody wants to be the big boss manager office person to sit in his comfy chair, but nobody wants to be the labour guy that does the hard work through muscles and sweat, or even the technical person that fixes stuff.

So really, is supporting the local economy going to mean anything if theres insufficient workers willing to do the job? This is especially true in the manufacturing industry.

fysloc is offline  
Old
05-22-2013, 12:06 PM
  #378
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
We aren't forced to take lowest bidder unless that's how the bid is setup.


The reason it's been outsourced is because the companies in Edmonton aren't being forced to work for so cheap. Why you might ask, because they have enough work in this economy. It's actually probably a good sign that things are being outsourced.
The Edmonton firms as cited have been laying off staff. So if follows that they likely don't have enough current work.

Labor cost ftr is one part of Alberta inefficiency. Economies of scale and having difficulty competing with a larger firm like Structal is probably more the issue at hand here.

But with this deal we're furthering a wealthy, huge, Quebec firm, ignoring our own economic diversification, all with public monies, while wondering why we don't have a diversified economy in place.

I worry about where this province is headed.

Replacement is offline  
Old
05-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #379
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The Edmonton firms as cited have been laying off staff. So if follows that they likely don't have enough current work.

Labor cost ftr is one part of Alberta inefficiency. Economy of scale and having difficulty competing with a larger firm like Structal is probably more the issue here. But with this deal we're furthering a wealthy Quebec firm, ignoring our own economic diversification, all with public monies, while wondering why we don't have a diversified economy.

I worry about where this province is headed.
When did they lay off employees?

I honestly don't know, but is it something they do every year?

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
05-22-2013, 12:13 PM
  #380
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
When did they lay off employees?

I honestly don't know, but is it something they do every year?
Its from the original article. Sourced direct statements from the firm.

This being one of the key points causing me to have this concern on behalf of Albertan, and local, firms and employers.

Quote:
The news comes at a particularly difficult time for Waiward and other local steel fabricators, which have seen their order books shrink as capital spending in the oilsands slows. Waiward recently laid off about 50 workers, reducing its total head count to about 220.

Lower oil prices and continued uncertainty about the fate of TransCanada’s proposed Keystone XL pipeline are key factors behind the drop in capital spending.

“Voyageur was the big one for us,” says Degner, referring to Suncor’s recent decision to cancel its long-delayed $11.6 billion Voyageur upgrader project.

“Right now, we’re fighting quite a significant slowdown. Competition has also got a lot more fierce, mostly from foreign and out-of-province suppliers,” he says, including Asian steel makers.
Without looking at that key piece in the article one does not necessarily understand my concern as expressed.

That getting this contract would have been a godsend to these local firms. A much needed one.

These are not bloated firms as much as they are struggling due to contracts heading out of province more and more frequently while Albertans show no concern.

Replacement is offline  
Old
05-22-2013, 12:51 PM
  #381
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Its from the original article. Sourced direct statements from the firm.

This being one of the key points causing me to have this concern on behalf of Albertan, and local, firms and employers.



Without looking at that key piece in the article one does not necessarily understand my concern as expressed.

That getting this contract would have been a godsend to these local firms. A much needed one.

These are not bloated firms as much as they are struggling due to contracts heading out of province more and more frequently while Albertans show no concern.
I don't know if I'd call it a godsend as that upgrader is a lot bigger than the arena.

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
06-06-2013, 10:38 AM
  #382
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 23,990
vCash: 406
http://www.edmontonexaminer.com/2013...rena-financing

More detail look of the funding

joestevens29 is offline  
Old
07-19-2013, 01:51 AM
  #383
Auguste Escoffier
Registered User
 
Auguste Escoffier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 5,600
vCash: 500
Anyway,

someone says someone will say something about the arena sometime next week, or something like that.

Auguste Escoffier is offline  
Old
07-19-2013, 03:38 PM
  #384
s7ark
Registered User
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,208
vCash: 500
Arena thread folks. All posts not relating to the arena after this will be removed.

Edit: Ok, I just removed the entire conversation. This is not a political board.


Last edited by s7ark: 07-19-2013 at 04:29 PM.
s7ark is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 11:42 AM
  #385
Auguste Escoffier
Registered User
 
Auguste Escoffier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 5,600
vCash: 500

Auguste Escoffier is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:10 PM
  #386
KClovesGaming
Registered User
 
KClovesGaming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 823
vCash: 500
Checked out the videos on the official Oilers site. That's pretty cool. The design looks great. I hope it helps the city of Edmonton, especially small businesses around it. See no reason why it wouldn't.

KClovesGaming is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:24 PM
  #387
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,760
vCash: 500
Just wondering how this arena that won't start construction until well into 2014 is expected to be ready for the fall 2016 season.

Anybody believe that?

Replacement is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:38 PM
  #388
Comrade Blunderbore
Генерал Файлюра
 
Comrade Blunderbore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: КПЗ
Country: New Zealand-Maori
Posts: 1,707
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Just wondering how this arena that won't start construction until well into 2014 is expected to be ready for the fall 2016 season.

Anybody believe that?
well, the construction of Consol Energy Center in Pittsburgh took exactly two years, why couldn't Edmonton's new barn be thrown up over similar time?

Comrade Blunderbore is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:38 PM
  #389
Hockey Nightmare
Welcome to Edmonton
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,973
vCash: 500
The Console Energy Centre broke ground August 14, 2008 and opened September 22, 2010.

Hockey Nightmare is online now  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:45 PM
  #390
Hockey Nightmare
Welcome to Edmonton
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,973
vCash: 500
Nationwide Arena broke ground May 26, 1998 and opened September 8, 2000.

Hockey Nightmare is online now  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:50 PM
  #391
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,881
vCash: 500
So we should be breaking ground around June 2014 or so?

Soundwave is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 06:55 PM
  #392
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,070
vCash: 500
How long until that sign gets vandalized? I'll give it a week.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 07:38 PM
  #393
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 11,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
So we should be breaking ground around June 2014 or so?
yeah, i'm guessing that would be the time frame they are looking at

jadeddog is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 08:07 PM
  #394
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
The Console Energy Centre broke ground August 14, 2008 and opened September 22, 2010.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
Nationwide Arena broke ground May 26, 1998 and opened September 8, 2000.
This is a more elaborate, extensive, and expensive design than any of the above. Factor in labor problems here (i.e. finding it) supply problems and winter climate for many months of the year and I don't know that these are comparables. This is a massive undertaking for it to be projected at two years from ground breaking to completion.

I'd be amazed if it was all finished inside and out and ready to go in Fall 2016.

Replacement is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 08:09 PM
  #395
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
How long until that sign gets vandalized? I'll give it a week.
I paid somebody a few bucks to tag it already...





5bucks gets the 5 X 5 Gagner impressionist mural. I think I got ripped..


















jk








Don't throw tomatoes. Or spray cans. Ouch.

Replacement is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 08:14 PM
  #396
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is a more elaborate, extensive, and expensive design than any of the above. Factor in labor problems here (i.e. finding it) supply problems and winter climate for many months of the year and I don't know that these are comparables. This is a massive undertaking for it to be projected at two years from ground breaking to completion.

I'd be amazed if it was all finished inside and out and ready to go in Fall 2016.
Well I guess they could start in April/May 2016.

Not everything has to be 100% complete for it to open either I don't think. The main arena section would but maybe some of the other things could come online in the following months. Like I don't think it'd be the end of the world if the Winter Garden component isn't ready until say November.

Minnesota is pretty comparable for climate though. They were built in a shade over 2 years (XCel Energy Center).

Air Canada Center in Toronto was actually under two years.

I think starting in May 2016 is plenty of time to have the arena and most of the base structure finished by October 1, 2016. The Oilers can play a few pre-season games at Rexall if need be.


Last edited by Soundwave: 07-22-2013 at 08:22 PM.
Soundwave is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 08:25 PM
  #397
Blue And Orange
SEAHAWKS SB48 CHAMPS
 
Blue And Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Europe
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,146
vCash: 500
Worst case scenario, the Oilers move into the new arena mid-season so we'll end up playing a few home games at Rexall Place.

Phoenix did that in 2003, Leafs did in 1999, even Montreal moved into their new home mid-season.

Blue And Orange is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 08:29 PM
  #398
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Worst case scenario, the Oilers move into the new arena mid-season so we'll end up playing a few home games at Rexall Place.

Phoenix did that in 2003, Leafs did in 1999, even Montreal moved into their new home mid-season.
Yeah I doubt that'll even be necessary, but they could play a month or two at Rexall in the worst case scenario.

Once the outer structure is built, they'll be able to work on it all through winter 2015 regardless of what the weather is like outside.

If they start in May/June 2014, that's plenty of time for at least the arena and immediate concession area to be complete. Maybe the Winter Garden and shopping district part takes a few extra months to be completed.

I assume they probably want The Winder Garden ready for the holiday season of 2016 so families can come down there and they can have Christmas festivities, but it's not like the end of the world if it doesn't happen.

Soundwave is offline  
Old
07-22-2013, 09:00 PM
  #399
Q Continuum
The trial never ends
 
Q Continuum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,639
vCash: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
How long until that sign gets vandalized? I'll give it a week.
No, don't do that, Mandel would probably cry...

Oh wait, that's a good thing. Carry on.

Q Continuum is online now  
Old
07-22-2013, 09:12 PM
  #400
Del Preston
Registered User
 
Del Preston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,614
vCash: 147
When the arena deal was finalized didn't they mention construction was going to begin in early 2014?

Del Preston is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.