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05-22-2013, 02:17 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
One tough guy means you have one tough guy, not really a tough team to play against. If that one guy, in this case Clowe, goes down, who is there to step up in that department? Toughness dept, not just fighting. If the answer is really no one who can play top minutes than that's a problem and you really don't have toughness as a team. It's like putting almost all our offensive woes on Nash. It shouldn't have to be all his doing, the team supports him and he supports the team.
It's not just 1 guy who fights though. It's the mentality he brings with him, what the locker room and the guys take away from him. Last year, the team mentality was we fight for each other. This year it's ???? Clowe brought some of that mentality back.

Add in McIlrath, and maybe even someone else... you're getting the same message that made this team so close together, across.

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05-22-2013, 02:19 PM
  #802
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my ideal lineup for next year would be:
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Zucc-Brass-Hags
Kreider-Miller-Asham
Haley-Boyle-Dorsett

Staal-McD
Girardi-Moore
MDZ-McIlrath

King
Giguere

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05-22-2013, 02:23 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
It's not just 1 guy who fights though. It's the mentality he brings with him, what the locker room and the guys take away from him. Last year, the team mentality was we fight for each other. This year it's ???? Clowe brought some of that mentality back.

Add in McIlrath, and maybe even someone else... you're getting the same message that made this team so close together, across.
Just make MCI the center of that toughness, make him know right off the bat the toughness starts with him. He's never gonna be a worldbeater on both ends of the puck, but if he becomes our version of Chara on the defensive side that'll go a long way with how the rest of the team will play and probably be assembled.

Kassian was available last season, not saying get him, but that type - a young up and comer. Will it cost, yes of course, but I don't believe in cheap moves for elements that are hard to find. Make a decision to trade a Dman along with extras if need be. Maybe use that 2nd we'd be wasting on Clowe as a piece.

When I hear 'get tougher', I want to hear 'and younger' to follow it right up.

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05-22-2013, 02:24 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Just make MCI the center of that toughness, make him know right off the bat the toughness starts with him. He's never gonna be a worldbeater on both ends of the puck, but if he becomes our version of Chara on the defensive side that'll go a long way with how the rest of the team will play and probably be assembled.

Kassian was available last season, not saying get him, but that type - a young up and comer. Will it cost, yes of course, but I don't believe in cheap moves for elements that are hard to find. Make a decision to trade a Dman along with extras if need be. Maybe use that 2nd we'd be wasting on Clowe as a piece.
Kassian would be ideal. Dorsett was a good addition to the Gaborik trade. Players like that are needed. Asham, at 35+ is not a good addition.

McIlrath will help, but the other players need to step up in that department. It's sad when Eminger is your most physical defenseman.

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05-22-2013, 02:24 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by NYRCSKA View Post
my ideal lineup for next year would be:
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Zucc-Brass-Hags
Kreider-Miller-Asham
Haley-Boyle-Dorsett

Staal-McD
Girardi-Moore
MDZ-McIlrath

King
Giguere
Need to throw Clowe in the mix.

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05-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by CheeseTortorella View Post
Need to throw Clowe in the mix.
Let him walk.

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05-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Just make MCI the center of that toughness, make him know right off the bat the toughness starts with him. He's never gonna be a worldbeater on both ends of the puck, but if he becomes our version of Chara on the defensive side that'll go a long way with how the rest of the team will play and probably be assembled.

Kassian was available last season, not saying get him, but that type - a young up and comer. Will it cost, yes of course, but I don't believe in cheap moves for elements that are hard to find. Make a decision to trade a Dman along with extras if need be. Maybe use that 2nd we'd be wasting on Clowe as a piece.
What else is out there that's available. I said 3 years 3.5 tops. What if we're able to swing a 2 years 2.5? A man with a chip on his shoulder trying to play for yet another contract after this and also trying to prove that he's not on the decline + an injury risk? It seems like a low risk high reward to me.

He's a gamer come playoff time. He's a great locker room presence (reportedly). Stick him on the 4th line with Boyle and Dorsett and you finally have a formidable checking line that brings immense grit and passion.

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05-22-2013, 02:27 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Kassian would be ideal. Dorsett was a good addition to the Gaborik trade. Players like that are needed. Asham, at 35+ is not a good addition.

McIlrath will help, but the other players need to step up in that department. It's sad when Eminger is your most physical defenseman.
Asham is one of our best playoff players. He has earned his place here for another year.

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05-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by NYRCSKA View Post
Asham is one of our best playoff players. He has earned his place here for another year.
That's not saying much.

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05-22-2013, 02:40 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
What else is out there that's available. I said 3 years 3.5 tops. What if we're able to swing a 2 years 2.5? A man with a chip on his shoulder trying to play for yet another contract after this and also trying to prove that he's not on the decline + an injury risk? It seems like a low risk high reward to me.

He's a gamer come playoff time. He's a great locker room presence (reportedly). Stick him on the 4th line with Boyle and Dorsett and you finally have a formidable checking line that brings immense grit and passion.
All I'm saying is, let's not limit the options just because the toughness needs fixing. To me it needs total updating, start with a guy who will hopefully be here for years, Mcilrath. Why not, we've exhausted the 'buying guys based on their old self', why not bet on a young guy in the opposite direction. We gambled on him as it was, let it ride !

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05-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
All I'm saying is, let's not limit the options just because the toughness needs fixing. To me it needs total updating, start with a guy who will hopefully be here for years, Mcilrath. Why not, we've exhausted the 'buying guys based on their old self', why not bet on a young guy in the opposite direction. We gambled on him as it was, let it ride !
And this is part of the issue. They drafted McIlrath. One would think they want to develop a team that would fit that type of player? They draft Thomas in Round 2. McIlrath is going to come up and be pretty much all alone.

Interesting that the AHL team saw it as a problem and went out and gave Carrol a contract, traded for Mashinter, brought Wilson up, etc.

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05-22-2013, 02:51 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Just cause he was playing doesn't mean he had healed from his previous concussion (if it was that to begin with). Boyle is widely speculated to have played through one last year. Clowe came back 4-5 games after he sustained one? Doesn't seem like an adequate time period to get over a concussion (in professional sports).
Maybe so. But given that he received two head shots, I take it as two concussions. Reoccurring symptoms would've been my argument if he had been playing, not received a second head shot, and then had to sit out because he didn't feel right.

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05-22-2013, 02:53 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
That's not saying much.
At least he shoots the puck....but then again he did previously play on offensively talented teams such as philly and pittsburgh. I'm even starting to think he knows more about offensive creativity than Tortorella does. He shoots the puck and he does it with authority and accuracy.

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05-22-2013, 02:58 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
And this is part of the issue. They drafted McIlrath. One would think they want to develop a team that would fit that type of player? They draft Thomas in Round 2. McIlrath is going to come up and be pretty much all alone.

Interesting that the AHL team saw it as a problem and went out and gave Carrol a contract, traded for Mashinter, brought Wilson up, etc.
We should have been looking for the forward equivalent to MCI since we drafted him, and way before that. Not saying someone exactly like him, but a tough forward who can play some minutes. I like guys like Asham and Dorsett, need others who will play against top D's, open space for a Nash, Step, Zucc.

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05-22-2013, 03:02 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
We should have been looking for the forward equivalent to MCI since we drafted him, and way before that. Not saying someone exactly like him, but a tough forward who can play some minutes. I like guys like Asham and Dorsett, need others who will play against top D's, open space for a Nash, Step, Zucc.
I 100% agree. I have been calling for a player like that for a long time. Sucks the Rangers can't find those players in the 2nd or 3rd. I can't fault their 1st rounders. They pick physical ability there. Kassian would have been great. It boggles my mind how this team can not draft a single tough scoring forward if their life depended on it.

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05-22-2013, 03:06 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I 100% agree. I have been calling for a player like that for a long time. Sucks the Rangers can't find those players in the 2nd or 3rd. I can't fault their 1st rounders. They pick physical ability there. Kassian would have been great. It boggles my mind how this team can not draft a single tough scoring forward if their life depended on it.
It's certainly a problem but they're not exactly growing on trees. I think you should always take BPA with first couple of picks in any draft. If you want to swing for fences in later rounds with a raw player or something, that's the time. IMO.

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05-22-2013, 04:40 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by NYRCSKA View Post
Let him walk.
I don't think you understand his value. We don't have enough players like this. Half of our guys aren't built for the playoffs. Clowe, in my opinion, is. Clowe is a big time keep for me.

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05-22-2013, 04:42 PM
  #818
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I don't think you understand his value. We don't have enough players like this. Half of our guys aren't built for the playoffs. Clowe, in my opinion, is. Clowe is a big time keep for me.
He was built to not play in these playoffs. And you have zero clue what his value is until you know his contract demands, which will be absurdly high for a beat up player. Time to stop projecting what Clowe was, and realizing what he actually is now...and will be.

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05-22-2013, 04:43 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by NYRCSKA View Post
my ideal lineup for next year would be:
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Zucc-Brass-Hags
Kreider-Miller-Asham
Haley-Boyle-Dorsett

Staal-McD
Girardi-Moore
MDZ-McIlrath

King
Giguere
That group of forwards is ugly. Don't know how you can expect the team to do better with those personnel. 3 AHL'ers slotted in, 2 of them before they are ready (at least, based on their performance this season). 4th liner playing on the third line. Charmin soft 2nd line. Defensive nightmare 3rd line. Counting on Brassard to continue near a point per game pace. A top 6 with at least 2, maybe 3 players slotted above where they should be on a good team. If that is what NYR brings next season, get ready for a bumpy ride.

Also, where's Stralman?

And how do you plan to get Giggy?

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05-22-2013, 04:46 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He was built to not play in these playoffs. And you have zero clue what his value is until you know his contract demands, which will be absurdly high for a beat up player. Time to stop projecting what Clowe was, and realizing what he actually is now...and will be.
He was hurt, it happens. I think we should make the effort to try to keep him. His demands can't be that high considering the season he just had.

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05-22-2013, 06:07 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by NYRCSKA View Post
my ideal lineup for next year would be:
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Zucc-Brass-Hags
Kreider-Miller-Asham
Haley-Boyle-Dorsett

Staal-McD
Girardi-Moore
MDZ-McIlrath

King
Giguere

Your ideal lineup features Asham on the THIRD line?

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05-22-2013, 06:34 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He was built to not play in these playoffs. And you have zero clue what his value is until you know his contract demands, which will be absurdly high for a beat up player. Time to stop projecting what Clowe was, and realizing what he actually is now...and will be.
Irony.

"You have zero idea what he's gonna ask for... so your point is wrong... but let me guess what hes gonna ask for so my point is valid."

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05-22-2013, 06:37 PM
  #823
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Irony.

"You have zero idea what he's gonna ask for... so your point is wrong... but let me guess what hes gonna ask for so my point is valid."
I wouldnt give him 3 years if he played for free.

If he wasnt broken, maybe I'd give him 2.

Point is, I dont care what he asks for.

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05-22-2013, 06:46 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I wouldnt give him 3 years if he played for free.

If he wasnt broken, maybe I'd give him 2.

Point is, I dont care what he asks for.
But how do we know he's broken? This seems like a gross over reaction. We are speculating (probably rightfully so) that he has had 1, maybe 2 concussions. He rested 4 games... which is abnormally low to sit out for a concussion, then had his head mashed into the boards again, likely intensifying his concussion symptoms from 5 games before or giving him an entirely different one. Now it's true that concussions vary, person - person, concussion - concussion, but what seems to be a very telling trend is the intensity and the nature of how you received the concussion. Neither hit was particularly vicious. What appears like a viable option - is that he tried to play through a concussion, rushed coming back, and realized he couldn't play at a high level when he got hit near the head again. 4 games to rest a concussion is literally nothing. More telling to me is his level of competitiveness to even try and come back after such an injury, not that he will not be able to recover.

If he's signing for 2-3 years at 2-2.5 per and has a 4th line or tops 3rd line role, I think its more than fair. If he's asking for 3 + years at 4 mill + then its a no brainer. I'm not for retaining this guy at all costs. But if the price is reasonable, he's the type of guy you want on your checking line and in your locker room.

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05-22-2013, 06:48 PM
  #825
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But how do we know he's broken? This seems like a gross over reaction. We are speculating (probably rightfully so) that he has had 1, maybe 2 concussions. He rested 4 games... which is abnormally low to sit out for a concussion, then had his head mashed into the boards again, likely intensifying his concussion symptoms from 5 games before or giving him an entirely different one. Now it's true that concussions vary, person - person, concussion - concussion, but what seems to be a very telling trend is the intensity and the nature of how you received the concussion. Neither hit was particularly vicious. What it appears like a viable options is that he tried to play through a concussion, rushed coming back, and realized he couldn't play at a high level when he got hit near the head again. 4 games to rest a concussion is literally nothing. More telling to me is his level of competitiveness to even try and come back after such an injury, not that he will not be able to recover.

If he's signing for 2-3 years at 2-2.5 per and has a 4th line or tops 3rd line role, I think its more than fair. If he's asking for 3 + years at 4 mill + then its a no brainer. I'm not for retaining this guy at all costs. But if the price is reasonable, he's the type of guy you want on your checking line and in your locker room.
Several teams will offer more than that...because they just love asking for trouble.

I hope the Rangers are not one of them.

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