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Old
05-22-2013, 03:57 PM
  #276
couture23
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Yeah the Jets owner is extremely rich, the richest in Canada by A LOT.

Vanek would resign there no doubt, many factors too.

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05-22-2013, 04:07 PM
  #277
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarenPuppaLives View Post
I don't know much about the guy but I believe actual reporters over forum posters, no offense. Reporters don't just make stuff up for no reason - there has to be something to it, right?

Not that I don't believe you but unless you're watching the games live, it can be difficult to judge someone's defensive play since a lot of the positioning is off-screen. I'm trying to understand the defensive side of the game myself lately and get very frustrated that I can't see someone unless he's near the puck.

That said, if he is as good as you say defensively, can we offer Vanek to get him, if Staff doesn't do the trick? Seems very promising, either way.
"Actual reporters" have a pretty bad track record of understanding players' games. See our own Buffalo reporters.

From my limited viewings I'd say he's certainly not BAD defensively and would compare favorably to a lot of the guys on our team. It can be argued if he's an ideal target, but if we can get him for Stafford I'm all over it.

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05-22-2013, 04:15 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
I don't see the Jets even talking about getting Vanek.

They aren't in a win now mode and they know they won't re-sign him.

So, it's not a matter of figuring out trade value. Winnipeg hangs up if Regier won't talk alternative packages for Burmi.
I disagree, they are in win now mode imo. It may not be smart and their top end in the next couple seasons may not be Cup-calibre, but I believe the organization is pretty keen on getting into the playoffs. That fanbase is dying for it.

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05-22-2013, 04:16 PM
  #279
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Why not? It's one of the closest NHL markets to his home in Minnesota. Their owner is richer than Pegula, and would no doubt shell out the cash to re-sign Vanek. They can give him an eighth year if they acquire him this summer, something no other team can give him.

The guy just doesn't want to go through a long rebuild. The Jets aren't rebuilding. Adding Vanek, Scheifele, Trouba, and a full season of Bogo makes them a pretty good team, even with the loss of Burmistrov--and that's assuming they stop there. If they could just get some consistent goaltending, they'd be a good team.

And, hey, he may even enjoy playing half his games in an arena that doesn't sound like a public library.
If I were Vanek... I'd view winnipeg just like buffalo over the last few years.... "oh look at all the nice little pieces"

Winnipeg is no where near contending... they will be habitual borderline playoff team, until they get the core franchise building blocks in place... they don't really have any.

I see no reason that Vanek re-signs anywhere that isn't a bonafide contender BEFORE free agency. But I might be giving him too much credit for wanting to win.

Signing in Winnipeg after testing free agency... sure, I could see that. But not before.

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05-22-2013, 06:02 PM
  #280
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Mike Schopp (yeah I know) said this afternoon that he's heard from credible sources in the Sabres that Darcy got offered a 1st for Ott at the deadline. Anyone think he should have taken it? I would have probably kept Ott personally...

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05-22-2013, 06:14 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Mike Schopp (yeah I know) said this afternoon that he's heard from credible sources in the Sabres that Darcy got offered a 1st for Ott at the deadline. Anyone think he should have taken it? I would have probably kept Ott personally...
It depends. If it was Vancouver, that late 1st is probably fair value and not a "No takebacks lol" trade. Buffalo obviously feels that Ott is a character guy that the team needs in addition to his more unique skillset.

I probably would have taken the 1st, but I see why they didn't.

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05-22-2013, 06:34 PM
  #282
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I made Vanek to Winnipeg proposals weeks ago citing the Vanek/Wheeler connection and got torched by Peg fans saying that Vanek doesn't fit their needs or model going forward. My proposal was:

Vanek for Bogosian and Burmistrov

I will amend that proposal to

Vanek (at 50%) and #16 for Bogosian (RFA), Burmistrov (RFA), and #14


Also....anyone think that with Patrick Roy the new HC in Colorado that Grigs to Avs rumors will start?

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05-22-2013, 06:37 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
It depends. If it was Vancouver, that late 1st is probably fair value and not a "No takebacks lol" trade. Buffalo obviously feels that Ott is a character guy that the team needs in addition to his more unique skillset.

I probably would have taken the 1st, but I see why they didn't.
Yep. Depends on who offered the 1st. Vancouver/Chicago/etc.....fair value, but I don't take it.

One of the more fringe playoff teams? Hard to pass.....

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05-22-2013, 07:06 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clumping platelets View Post
I made Vanek to Winnipeg proposals weeks ago citing the Vanek/Wheeler connection and got torched by Peg fans saying that Vanek doesn't fit their needs or model going forward. My proposal was:

Vanek for Bogosian and Burmistrov

I will amend that proposal to

Vanek (at 50%) and #16 for Bogosian (RFA), Burmistrov (RFA), and #14


Also....anyone think that with Patrick Roy the new HC in Colorado that Grigs to Avs rumors will start?
You probably got ripped because 'Peg fans view Bogo as practically untouchable. Can't see them trading him.

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05-22-2013, 07:09 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clumping platelets View Post
I made Vanek to Winnipeg proposals weeks ago citing the Vanek/Wheeler connection and got torched by Peg fans saying that Vanek doesn't fit their needs or model going forward. My proposal was:

Vanek for Bogosian and Burmistrov

I will amend that proposal to

Vanek (at 50%) and #16 for Bogosian (RFA), Burmistrov (RFA), and #14


Also....anyone think that with Patrick Roy the new HC in Colorado that Grigs to Avs rumors will start?
You won't get Bogosian for Vanek (1yr/50%) + 16, let alone adding Burmi & 14. Jets D prospect pool is thin enough as it is.

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05-22-2013, 07:48 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clumping platelets View Post
I made Vanek to Winnipeg proposals weeks ago citing the Vanek/Wheeler connection and got torched by Peg fans saying that Vanek doesn't fit their needs or model going forward. My proposal was:

Vanek for Bogosian and Burmistrov


I will amend that proposal to

Vanek (at 50%) and #16 for Bogosian (RFA), Burmistrov (RFA), and #14


Also....anyone think that with Patrick Roy the new HC in Colorado that Grigs to Avs rumors will start?
that's a horrendous offer.

There's this thing called Restricted Free Agency, it keeps young players under team control until they've reached a # of seasons/gameplayed/age

it's kind of a big deal

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05-22-2013, 07:49 PM
  #287
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I'm glad we kept Ott. I have no doubt Vancouver would have offered their 1st for him (though he wouldn't have made too much of a difference in that series). I'd rather have Ott than a late 1st, honestly.

Schopp and Bulldog think he'll be our Captain next year, which surprised me.

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05-22-2013, 10:24 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
that's a horrendous offer.

There's this thing called Restricted Free Agency, it keeps young players under team control until they've reached a # of seasons/gameplayed/age

it's kind of a big deal
Thanks for the heads up omlimpotent one

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05-22-2013, 11:20 PM
  #289
Der Jaeger
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I'd be OK with Vanek for Burmistrov nearly straight up. I'm sure Regier could wriggle a draft pick out of Winnipeg too. I'm willing to deal one more year of Vanek for four years of Burmistrov... probably more.

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05-22-2013, 11:56 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Looking at it from Regier's view: Stafford is more proven than Burmistrov and if Burmistrov wasn't willing to resign in Winnipeg who is to say he would jump at the chance to sign in Buffalo. Winnipeg needs to add.

I get that Burmistrov is young but 194 games played 23-35-58. Stafford had back to back 50 point seasons before last year. He also has almost as many goals (57) in the last three seasons as Burmistrov has points (Not to mention the extra 63 assists during the same span).
You're comparing Burmistrov's first three seasons in the league, aged 18-21, to Stafford's 5th-7th seasons, aged 24-26. Not exactly the most fair comparison. I'm not saying that your main point, that Stafford is a more proven commodity, isn't valid, but Burmi's not at the stage of his career where he should be a proven player, and Stafford is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Yeah the Jets owner is extremely rich, the richest in Canada by A LOT.

Vanek would resign there no doubt, many factors too.
Maybe if someone follows the Jets they can clear this up.. but for some reason I think True North operates under a self-imposed cap. They have quite a few UFA/RFA's this summer, so I'm not sure if they could fit a 7 million dollar player on their team. Vanek's next contract will undoubtedly be worth less per year, however it will still be a relatively high salary.



Already posted about Burmistrov when a poster brought up potentially negotiating with Winnipeg for him again, and I hope once again Darcy is in on him. Not really a fan of how he's taken this trade demand public, except there are just some player/coach combos that don't work. I think Claude Noel is a good coach, seems like a pretty funny guy as well, but he reminds me of Torts in the sense that you either completely agree with him or you're indifferent to him. I understand that Darcy wants to get full value for his players, but if Stafford for Burmi is on the table I'm running away with that. Take on some of Stafford's salary or add a 2-3 if that's what it takes.


Last edited by Sean McG: 05-23-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Old
05-23-2013, 01:44 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I'd be OK with Vanek for Burmistrov nearly straight up. I'm sure Regier could wriggle a draft pick out of Winnipeg too. I'm willing to deal one more year of Vanek for four years of Burmistrov... probably more.
But wouldn't this be underselling an asset? Darcy is notorious for "winning the deal". I doubt he would make that straight up trade. Now if the Jets throw in #16 and a solid prospect with the Jets taking full salary/cap....I could get behind that deal.

Ok....so Jame doesn't like my deal proposal. How about something around Vanek + for Burmistrov and Byfuglien?

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05-23-2013, 02:05 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Sean McG View Post
You're comparing Burmistrov's first three seasons in the league, aged 18-21, to Stafford's 5th-7th seasons, aged 24-26. Not exactly the most fair comparison. I'm not saying that your main point, that Stafford is a more proven commodity, isn't valid, but Burmi's not at the stage of his career where he should be a proven player, and Stafford is.
True but potential =/= proven. Burmistrov hasn't shown anything more than being a shutdown center.... his offensive stats are less than desirable. Stafford's first 3 seasons put him at totals of 49-61 =110 points (184 games). Burmistrov has less than half of those stats at the same time. Ultimately is a player who averages .27 gpg (21-22 for a 82 game season) worth less than a shutdown center whose offensive abilities leave much to be desired?

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05-23-2013, 07:47 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by clumping platelets View Post
But wouldn't this be underselling an asset? Darcy is notorious for "winning the deal". I doubt he would make that straight up trade. Now if the Jets throw in #16 and a solid prospect with the Jets taking full salary/cap....I could get behind that deal.

Ok....so Jame doesn't like my deal proposal. How about something around Vanek + for Burmistrov and Byfuglien?
If Regier could get Burmistrov and Winnipeg's first for one year of Vanek, I think he wins that deal.

I don't think Vanek is worth Burmistrov and Byfuglien unless Winnipeg is allowed to pre-trade negotiate with Vanek and has an extension deal in place. I think that's not likely, and may not even be possible under the new CBA (not a CBA guru).

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05-23-2013, 07:59 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Mike Schopp (yeah I know) said this afternoon that he's heard from credible sources in the Sabres that Darcy got offered a 1st for Ott at the deadline. Anyone think he should have taken it? I would have probably kept Ott personally...
"@Schopptalk: I'm hearing Stafford to Washington is happening. Not official." Apr 3

#insider

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05-23-2013, 09:01 AM
  #295
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Just pointing out that Lawless has a track-record of making **** up about Jets players re-signing with the Jets that have never born fruit. Burmistrov's social media commentary yesterday points to the article being less than truthful.

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05-23-2013, 06:21 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
True but potential =/= proven. Burmistrov hasn't shown anything more than being a shutdown center.... his offensive stats are less than desirable. Stafford's first 3 seasons put him at totals of 49-61 =110 points (184 games). Burmistrov has less than half of those stats at the same time. Ultimately is a player who averages .27 gpg (21-22 for a 82 game season) worth less than a shutdown center whose offensive abilities leave much to be desired?
Absolutely true. For a rebuilding team, I value Burmistrov's said potential over what Stafford can bring. Simple as that.

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05-23-2013, 10:24 PM
  #297
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Sorta realistic off-season

Vanek to Winnipeg for Burmistrov and draft choice(s), possible a 2014 conditional pick that could rise to a first if Vanek resigns.

Sign a free agent bottom six center. Boyd Gordon works. I'd go with Scott Gomez if that didn't work, now that his contract isn't an issue. Short term deal if it's Gomez.

Try to sign a top six scorer. Briere if he's bought out works. Jagr might work too. Shortest possible term deal that Briere would accept. 1 year deal with Jagr. Either/or, not both.

Not trying to rebuild past times, but I'd work to get Tallinder back from New Jersey. It'd be part of an all-out push to get Myers back on track. Maybe they'd take Gerbe as part of the deal.

I honestly have no idea what to do with Miller, so I'm just going to go with the Rundblad trade to Phoenix.

Try the bold trade up with Colorado - though I think Greg Sherman turns it down. Once that trade up try is gone, work a trade up with Carolina to get Lindholm.

Go into 2013 like this:

Ennis - Hodgson - Stafford
Briere/Jagr - Burmistrov - Leino
Foligno - Gordon/Gomez - Flynn
Ott - Porter - Kaleta
Scott- Tropp

Ehrhoff - Sekera
Tallinder - Myers
Weber - Pysyk
Ruhwedel

Enroth
Hackett

Juggle the lines and pairing how you wish.

That'd set up my trade deadline target: Ryan O'Reilly. I'd wait to set how Colorado's center situation plays out. Sherman is in somewhat of a similar situation with Stastny as Regier is with Vanek, and who knows how O'Reilly feels about returning to the organization. If Stastny is moved, and O'Reilly is offered at the deadline (after the one-year no trade rule post RFA matching), I'd offer Grigorenko, Sekera, and a high 2014 draft choice.

That's admittedly not a good 2013-2014 lineup, but it's by design. It allows Girgensons, Larsson, Armia, Lindholm (if they get into position to draft him), whoever they take at 16, Kea, Catenacci, Rundblad, McNabb, McCabe, etc. development time before rushing them to the NHL.


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05-23-2013, 11:46 PM
  #298
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I would not want to use Vanek in the Winnipeg trade. I think he would be best to trade near or at the deadline. The biggest obstacle with vanek is his cap hit which shouldn't be issue by that time. Most teams should be able to cover his remaining cap hit. He's especially flexible when considering the fact that he shoots right but plays left wing. Basically, whoever gets him can put him anywhere on the wing. So between his prorated cap hit and his position flexibility, his maximum value IMO is at the deadline where value is inflated anyway.

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05-24-2013, 01:24 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
I don't see the Jets even talking about getting Vanek.

They aren't in a win now mode and they know they won't re-sign him.

So, it's not a matter of figuring out trade value. Winnipeg hangs up if Regier won't talk alternative packages for Burmi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLewyB View Post
I would not want to use Vanek in the Winnipeg trade. I think he would be best to trade near or at the deadline. The biggest obstacle with vanek is his cap hit which shouldn't be issue by that time. Most teams should be able to cover his remaining cap hit. He's especially flexible when considering the fact that he shoots right but plays left wing. Basically, whoever gets him can put him anywhere on the wing. So between his prorated cap hit and his position flexibility, his maximum value IMO is at the deadline where value is inflated anyway.

Based on my understanding, when a tean can retain half his salary in a deal, it appears as if that means they basically eat is remaining salary at the deadline...thus he is free for the team that gets hm.

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05-24-2013, 09:58 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by JLewyB View Post
I would not want to use Vanek in the Winnipeg trade. I think he would be best to trade near or at the deadline. The biggest obstacle with vanek is his cap hit which shouldn't be issue by that time. Most teams should be able to cover his remaining cap hit. He's especially flexible when considering the fact that he shoots right but plays left wing. Basically, whoever gets him can put him anywhere on the wing. So between his prorated cap hit and his position flexibility, his maximum value IMO is at the deadline where value is inflated anyway.
I think a deadline move with Vanek is too risky given his injury troubles that usually come mid-season.

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