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Old
05-23-2013, 01:24 PM
  #26
habtastic
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Rangers are puzzling cuz they sucked all season bringing back the memory of when they stacked up with Lindros, Kovalev et al. and SUCKED, but then they make the best moves in shipping out gaborik (wasn't working with Tortellini) and bringing in brassard...become one of the hottest teams in the league --> BEAT WASHINGTON (THE hottest team). I mean that was incredible. THEN, they absolutely suck against a pretty average IMO Boston team.

Don't know how to get a read on whether this team is good or horrible...

AS for Richards, I've never seen him look so much like an AHL player and it's not due to Torts. He can't make a damn play.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:32 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I vaguely recall the Conference Finals last year.
Jesus, totally forgot.

Okay, one time they got out of the conference finals in 15 years? That's the kind of mediocrity we bash the Habs' management for!


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05-23-2013, 01:40 PM
  #28
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People should stop underrating Boston.

Boston is not an "average" team. It's a force to deal with, a real strong, complete team with all mixes of ingredients in their cocktail. They have the makeup of a Championship team.

They have a solid goaltender in Rask.
A franchise d-man in Chara.
Good puck-moving types in Hamilton and Seidenberg.
Good, solid, rough defensive ds in Ference, McQuaid and Boychuk.
The best 4th line in the league (Paille - Campbell - Thornton)
A great complementary 3rd line who can chip in AND play good defense (Jagr - Kelly - Peverley)
Two very good scoring lines (Seguin - Bergeron - Marchand and Lucic - Krejci - Horton) with size, skills, sniping and physicality, along with some complete players)
A very, very good coach in Julien
And all of them play in a team first concept. They are held accountable and are standing up for each other like any big family would.

They have as good a team as the LA Kings. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it all again this season.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Sather has found a way to get out of all the bad contracts without crippling the team. They have a very good, young nucleus. Like the Flyers, the Rangers have been fearless in their management. It leads to some embarrassing contract situations, but generally has worked out well for both teams.
Some parts were good like getting UFA and trading them:
  • He got Gomez as UFA and traded him for McDonagh;
  • He got Gaborik as a UFA and traded him for assets in bottom-6 lost in the Nash trade;
  • He traded assets for Nash that left his team depleted until the Gaborik trade;
He got Richards as a UFA but he won't be able to trade him given the costs and the way Torts acted.
So it is either a compliance buy-out or trading Torts.

As for the Flyers: Richards and Carter are still playing while Flyers are out of the PO.

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05-23-2013, 01:55 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Some parts were good like getting UFA and trading them:
  • He got Gomez as UFA and traded him for McDonagh;
  • He got Gaborik as a UFA and traded him for assets in bottom-6 lost in the Nash trade;
  • He traded assets for Nash that left his team depleted until the Gaborik trade;
He got Richards as a UFA but he won't be able to trade him given the costs and the way Torts acted.
So it is either a compliance buy-out or trading Torts.
Not sure if these are arguments against Sather?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
As for the Flyers: Richards and Carter are still playing while Flyers are out of the PO.
IMO the Richards and Bryz moves were awful. The Hartnell & Timmonen, Carter and Pronger moves were great. Like I said, a fearless approach, resulting in some embarassment, but has generally resulted in a successful franchise. Both the Flyers and Rangers have done some crazy things and have remained contenders in a division with the luckiest (Crosby & Malkin) team in the league.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:59 PM
  #31
habtastic
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Jesus, totally forgot.

Okay, one time they got out of the conference finals in 15 years? That's the kind of mediocrity we bash the Habs' management for!

Despite that tiny technicality, I totally agree with you. Took us 17 years, them 18 years.

I put things in perspective and despite our faltering, we've had to put up with changing times, changing politics and a fanbase that has often forced an incompetent management into making stupid moves that wouldn't happen if this was columbus. Not excusing them, but there are reasons why we went off the tracks. If we could build a team unfettered, as I believe we ARE now (truly believe in MB's vision and he's going to weather the storm of fan impatience, which is great), we will get the team we want and deserve.

Everyone who goes on to me (friends who just read the commonly trotted out headlines and tropes) about "we are too small", "can't win with pleks, dd, eller", "Price is a lot cause", etc. usually has no idea who our top 3 prospects are (and that's just scratching the surface...we have a LOT to look forward to). We just need to be patient and things will fall into place. I would not be surprised if we have one of the most solid D corps in 4 years. Sure, long time, but do we want to win Cups for years to come? Not such a long time from that perspective. Same goes for "tough" fwds, snipers and guys who will show up every night. We are headed that way.

I can't stress patience enough. That and hoping MB does not do something stupid trade wise. I'm not sure I like this team's chances without Tomas Plekanec. He doesn't have to be labeled the #1 C (in fact, this season and last season, he WASN'T!), but as Boston needs Bergeron, we need him as well and I hardly think he minds playing the shutdown role.

Anyway, rangers do not strike fear in me and I think their management situation is far more volatile than ours even though they've got great pieces. It amazes me just how useless their star players have been in this last series and they do not seem hurt. It's a cautionary tale about signing these big time free agents. I really thought Nash would light it up this year. Amazed.

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Old
05-23-2013, 02:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
People should stop underrating Boston.

Boston is not an "average" team. It's a force to deal with, a real strong, complete team with all mixes of ingredients in their cocktail. They have the makeup of a Championship team.

They have a solid goaltender in Rask.
A franchise d-man in Chara.
Good puck-moving types in Hamilton and Seidenberg.
Good, solid, rough defensive ds in Ference, McQuaid and Boychuk.
The best 4th line in the league (Paille - Campbell - Thornton)
A great complementary 3rd line who can chip in AND play good defense (Jagr - Kelly - Peverley)
Two very good scoring lines (Seguin - Bergeron - Marchand and Lucic - Krejci - Horton) with size, skills, sniping and physicality, along with some complete players)
A very, very good coach in Julien
And all of them play in a team first concept. They are held accountable and are standing up for each other like any big family would.

They have as good a team as the LA Kings. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it all again this season.
It's moreso the result of everyone previously OVER-rating them. They've shown all season that they lack offensive punch and that they aren't the same team from 2011 (even 2012 was a lesser team despite Seguin's rise).

They are a very good team, no doubt, but everyone picking them to be favourites was a bit ridiculous to me. They are very beatable. And THIS year, in particular, they have underachieved. The rangers series is the first time I've seen them resemble the team they SHOULD look like so I'll give them credit there. Another thing to compliment them for is Bartkowski and Krug seeming to be very good players. Too bad Nieuwendyk is such a moron.

They are not the Kings, though...

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Old
05-23-2013, 02:38 PM
  #33
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Just a quick question about buyouts. When I was reading the Richards being scratched story on ESPN, the writes states "Per rules of hockey's new collective bargaining agreement, each team is allotted two over the next two summers. The Rangers have utilized an accelerated compliance buyout on Wade Redden, now with the Bruins, but that doesn't count against their remaining two."

Is this true? Does this mean we would have 2 buyouts at the ends of his year - we did the same with Gomez.

ESPN link: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...ratched-game-4

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Old
05-23-2013, 03:05 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Rangers are puzzling cuz they sucked all season bringing back the memory of when they stacked up with Lindros, Kovalev et al. and SUCKED, but then they make the best moves in shipping out gaborik (wasn't working with Tortellini) and bringing in brassard...become one of the hottest teams in the league --> BEAT WASHINGTON (THE hottest team). I mean that was incredible. THEN, they absolutely suck against a pretty average IMO Boston team.

Don't know how to get a read on whether this team is good or horrible...

AS for Richards, I've never seen him look so much like an AHL player and it's not due to Torts. He can't make a damn play.
He is a poor fit for NYR, he is a puck posession guy playing on a grinding dump and cahse team.

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Old
05-23-2013, 03:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
Just a quick question about buyouts. When I was reading the Richards being scratched story on ESPN, the writes states "Per rules of hockey's new collective bargaining agreement, each team is allotted two over the next two summers. The Rangers have utilized an accelerated compliance buyout on Wade Redden, now with the Bruins, but that doesn't count against their remaining two."

Is this true? Does this mean we would have 2 buyouts at the ends of his year - we did the same with Gomez.

ESPN link: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...ratched-game-4
The article is wrong, by using it on Redden(same as Gomez) they only have one left for 2013 and 2014.

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Old
05-23-2013, 03:42 PM
  #36
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Paint it how you want but it got results, Eller was working much harder and was a better player when he got back in which was the goal. Maybe MT was trying to send a message to veterans, and it worked. He's not there to win a popularity contest, he's there to win and get the most out of guys.
Eller was working much harder after? After what? His 12minute game???

Ya sure, it sent a message to the rest of the veterans. Because I'm sure Erik Cole was really scared to get scratched after Eller, the player that constantly got pushed out last year on the 4th, was scratched. That makes a ton of sense. That is more likely to be the reason than the team playing their first game without a training camp in a new system. It's not about practicing with the team more, with new linemates, in the new system. Nope, that likely had very little barring. It's MT scratching a 4th liner at the time that really made an impact.

Scratching players can have an impact, good or bad, but in this particular case, I don't think it changed anything.

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Old
05-23-2013, 03:53 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
People should stop underrating Boston.

Boston is not an "average" team. It's a force to deal with, a real strong, complete team with all mixes of ingredients in their cocktail. They have the makeup of a Championship team.

They have a solid goaltender in Rask.
A franchise d-man in Chara.
Good puck-moving types in Hamilton and Seidenberg.
Good, solid, rough defensive ds in Ference, McQuaid and Boychuk.
The best 4th line in the league (Paille - Campbell - Thornton)
A great complementary 3rd line who can chip in AND play good defense (Jagr - Kelly - Peverley)
Two very good scoring lines (Seguin - Bergeron - Marchand and Lucic - Krejci - Horton) with size, skills, sniping and physicality, along with some complete players)
A very, very good coach in Julien
And all of them play in a team first concept. They are held accountable and are standing up for each other like any big family would.

They have as good a team as the LA Kings. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it all again this season.

Yeah yeah, Bruins are great, just like Leafs. We get it.

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:36 PM
  #38
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
People should stop underrating Boston.

Boston is not an "average" team. It's a force to deal with, a real strong, complete team with all mixes of ingredients in their cocktail. They have the makeup of a Championship team.

They have a solid goaltender in Rask.
A franchise d-man in Chara.
Good puck-moving types in Hamilton and Seidenberg.
Good, solid, rough defensive ds in Ference, McQuaid and Boychuk.
The best 4th line in the league (Paille - Campbell - Thornton)
A great complementary 3rd line who can chip in AND play good defense (Jagr - Kelly - Peverley)
Two very good scoring lines (Seguin - Bergeron - Marchand and Lucic - Krejci - Horton) with size, skills, sniping and physicality, along with some complete players)
A very, very good coach in Julien
And all of them play in a team first concept. They are held accountable and are standing up for each other like any big family would.

They have as good a team as the LA Kings. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it all again this season.
I agree and disagree. Boston is one of the better teams in the east, but the east as a conference is weak as a whole. In a 7 game series with a healthy Boston matching up against a healthy Montreal, I am very skeptical as to whether Boston wins that series. In fact, I would be confident in Montreal's chances despite the completely different constructions of the team.

Boston's season has been up and down. They were great first half, okay to poor in the second half. We saw the same team problems when they played the Leafs in the first round, which is that speed kills their team. The Toronto forwards, like the Habs forwards repeatedly showed how fragile Boston's system is when you come in with speed: constant turnovers in the defensive end and the inability to have a clean break-out counter attack, which imo is a much bigger part of their offensive game then their cycle game, Boston is extremely effective scoring off a counter attack rush, this part of their offensive game (their biggest part) often gets over looked because of the Big-bad Bruins discourse. Boston despite it's size a very skilled team with Bergeron, Krecji, Marchand, Peverley and to a certain extent Horton.

The 2013 Boston team imo is not at the same level as the cup winning team. They had better depth with Ryder and Recchi. Jagr is good, but doesn't fit the style of the current Bruins team. However, with Krug and Bartowski developing well and looking like they're ready, along with Hamilton, the Boston D core becomes much more intriguing, moving towards a more mobile, pucking moving D core, than a stifling, space-eliminating physical one. Ironically, moving towards the puck moving D core has Boston looking much better as a team then it did in the second half of the season and the first round against the leafs.

They're a good team, but I don't think they are in the same class as Pittsburgh, Detroit or LA...they're close, but they are not there yet and are still very vulnerable, especially with Rask in net, who while is one of the best goaltenders in the league, is still very beatable and doesn't have the same clutchness in my opinion that Thomas does, which put that 2011 Boston over the edge.

Like I said, a healthy Montreal team against a healthy Boston team, I'd give the odds to Montreal, despite the Bruins being "built for playoff hockey."


Last edited by Andy: 05-23-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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Old
05-23-2013, 04:42 PM
  #39
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Patrick Roy in Denver. Could be entertaining.

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:45 PM
  #40
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Damn... I really wanted Roy as our coach.

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05-23-2013, 04:53 PM
  #41
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I'm done with rookie coaches in Montreal, personally. Let em fail elsewhere first and then scoop em up.

But best of luck to Roy, of course.

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:54 PM
  #42
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Damn... I really wanted Roy as our coach.
He will be, just needs a bit of NHL experience outside the Montreal circus, I'd hate to have another Carbo repeat, Roy's destiny is coming back to MTL and bringing the cup back with him.

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:55 PM
  #43
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I have this feeling AV is going to land in Dallas, don't know why just a gut feeling.

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:55 PM
  #44
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Let the overreaction begin!

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:56 PM
  #45
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Announcement says Head Coach / VP of Hockey operations. Doesn't that put him both below and above the GM? Obviously, he wants a bit more responsibility as was rumored in the past.

EDIT:

Did I miss them announcing Sherman is fired or what? No mention of him anywhere and normally, that would be his hire, no?

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05-23-2013, 05:01 PM
  #46
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I wonder if ben groulx will go with him

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05-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
Just a quick question about buyouts. When I was reading the Richards being scratched story on ESPN, the writes states "Per rules of hockey's new collective bargaining agreement, each team is allotted two over the next two summers. The Rangers have utilized an accelerated compliance buyout on Wade Redden, now with the Bruins, but that doesn't count against their remaining two."

Is this true? Does this mean we would have 2 buyouts at the ends of his year - we did the same with Gomez.

ESPN link: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...ratched-game-4
Wes?

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05-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #48
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I'm glad we avoided the Roy circus.

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05-23-2013, 05:24 PM
  #49
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Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype 5m My problem with the Avalanche's moves: their managerial hierarchy now resembles a game of Snakes & Ladders instead of a pyramid. Not good.

LOL

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Old
05-23-2013, 05:33 PM
  #50
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Given where Colorado finished this year, I wonder how much pressure is on him. It's not like he's Gretzky, who was an atrocious coach (I think most of us have blocked that abomination from our memories) without prior experience. Roy is coming in having had success in a very competitive league and having dealt with all kinds of players. I think he reads the game well, but how that translates to a full NHL season will be interesting. Def looking forward to some agression towards the opposite bench/coach (hmmmm...get ready Babcock). In fact, he might be a little bit like 2002 Therrien.

As for him coming back to MTL, I really want to give Therrien the team he wants before kicking him out of town. I think he's gone a great job so far and it's just the beginning. Unfortunately, we might just be developing into a powerhouse once the media/fans become impatient with him though it will be because of him. I'm afraid that (hypothetically) bringing in a Roy might mess it all up, but hey, that's looking way too far into the future. Roy might be awesome from day one.

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