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Old
05-23-2013, 10:35 AM
  #51
SlingshotVv
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so, we can continue to believe that Nash, Callahan, Stepan, Richards, MDZ, McD, Kreider, etc are all under-acheiving, or we can point to the coaching and say, how come every other team looks organized in the offensive zone, and we throw the puck around the boards and everyone improvises their way into a turnover.

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05-23-2013, 10:36 AM
  #52
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Here's the mistake with the premise of this thread:

Callahan (and to an extent, but certainly lesser) Stepan's value in the playoffs derive from their defensive ability. Stepan is probably our best two way forward, but that's not to be confused with an exceptional scorer who plays great D, it's merely our player who is the most competent on both ends. Callahan's a close second, but his offensive game is simply not there. Moreover, neither of their offensive games translate well to the playoffs. While they try to play physically, both are too undersized to be truly dominant puck controllers, and neither possesses the ability to, try as they might, play a strong game controlling the corners.

Also, specifically as it relates to Callahan, if we're relying on him for offense, we're doing it wrong. He's not capable of generating offense, his goals come from being up front, getting a deflection or a putback. He's not going to be able to create. That's not a knock on him, just a statement of fact.

The problem, as far as I'm concerned, are the no-shows of Nash, Girardi (who did have a good game 3 in what seemed like his first good game this post-season, and certainly against the Bruins), and the struggles of Richards. Nash and Richards are the guys who need to create chances and just haven't been doing that. Girardi's been woefully out of position on seemingly every big goal. Those are the biggest problems.

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05-23-2013, 11:03 AM
  #53
Cliffy1814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Everyone outside of Lundqvist, Brassard, Callahan and McDonagh haven't brought it this series as far as I'm concerned. I might give Stralman, Asham and Zuccarello a break based on their pay grade. Dorsett and Moore because they're fairly new and have done some good.

Richards, Del Zotto, Nash...the whole bunch. Embarrassing. You almost wish we didn't make the playoffs with this performance.
Brassard? Who is that? I have not noticed him at all this series. He was excellent in the Washington series.
The unfortunate part of that is this was his reputation in Columbus. Talented kid who disappeared for periods/games.
It would be poor judgement to rely on him to be an automatic 50-60 point center next year.

Mc Donough, Stalman, Doresett, Asham, have done as much as you could have expected IMO.
Kreider has looked a little better as we have moved along. He got moved to Nash's line before he got hurt the other night.
Why not start things out that way and see what happens tonight?

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05-23-2013, 11:10 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Conine View Post
Nash better need some kind of major surgery this off season or else Sather made one of his worst moves of his tenure here, bringing this guy in for 4 roster players. Completely gutting a team for a soft, slow, heartless player.
1) And how would that mitigate him?
We had a winger before who scored 30+ goals, but never showed up in the playoffs due to being a choker or injuries (Gaborik).
So if Nash is injured, well that doesn't help his case.

2) Lundqvist has NOT been inconsistent. He's been great. Without him, the Rangers are done in 5 or 6 round one. He is woren down from playing the whole season without rest and having to carry the team.

3) Girardi I will excuse. I think first, he was paired with Del Zotto who stinks. Then, he also has been overworked.

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Old
05-23-2013, 11:37 AM
  #55
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Here's our problem:

Logan Couture 8GP 5G 6A = 11P
Joe Thornton 8GP 1G 8A = 9P

Sidney Crosby 9GP 7G 7A = 14P
Evgeni Malkin 10GP 3G 11A = 14P

David Krejci 10GP 5G 11A = 16P
Patrice Bergeron 10GP 3G 4A = 7P

Brad Richards 10GP 1G 0A = 1P
Derek Stepan 10GP 3G 0A = 3P

So basically, our "top 2" Centers suck right now. Add that Nash has 1 goal, and well here we are.

I like Stepan as a player, he has a lot of potential. BUT he will never be a Logan Couture type player which is what any team needs down the middle to be competitive in today's league. He just doesn't have the offensive toolset. Only way you can get away with Step as your 2C in the playoffs is if you have a powerhouse 1C, which clearly we don't.

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05-23-2013, 11:56 AM
  #56
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I love Stepan and I would say he's probably my favorite Ranger (outside of Henrik) and coming into the playoffs I thought he'd get past his post season woes, but IMO he has been invisible for most of the playoffs. He had those two game winning goals which were very important, but outside of that he has really done nothing.

I definitely expected more from Nash as well. He has shown signs of playing better, but he should be the best player on the ice and he's been far from that.

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05-23-2013, 12:10 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toastbag View Post
I love Stepan and I would say he's probably my favorite Ranger (outside of Henrik) and coming into the playoffs I thought he'd get past his post season woes, but IMO he has been invisible for most of the playoffs. He had those two game winning goals which were very important, but outside of that he has really done nothing.

I definitely expected more from Nash as well. He has shown signs of playing better, but he should be the best player on the ice and he's been far from that.
If he isn't scoring, he should at least be throwing his body around. In games 6+7 when Ovechkin was scoring, he was still noticeable because he used his body. I'm not expecting Nash to be as physical as Ovechkin but he needs to be similar.

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05-23-2013, 12:21 PM
  #58
SnowblindNYR
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Snow, your comment about other fan's percpetion of the Rangers talent level is true. They think we're one of the most talented teams in the league and are filled with stars. I think we underestimate it a bit, and the truth is somewhere in the middle, but interesting nevertheless.
Well we get big names and we also have guys that are a bit overhyped. Gabby is a guy that hasn't been elite since 2010. That said he WAS very good last year. He's not on the team now though. Hags is a guy that sometimes is overrated but he's a very useful player and a good role player even in the top 6. Cally is overrated by the media but without injuries and the lockout would probably have 3 straight almost 30 goal and over 50 point seasons, good for the top 6. I think that the team a lot closer to what opposing fans think than pessimists like Kershaw who think that the Rangers aren't even top 10 in talent. Funny thing is, this perception is still there even with a good player like Zucc being an unknown. Rangers fans know about him and yet they are the ones ******** on the team. I don't mean that he's a great player, but if I were a fan of another team I'd probably think he's a scrub.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:24 PM
  #59
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Here's our problem:

Logan Couture 8GP 5G 6A = 11P
Joe Thornton 8GP 1G 8A = 9P

Sidney Crosby 9GP 7G 7A = 14P
Evgeni Malkin 10GP 3G 11A = 14P

David Krejci 10GP 5G 11A = 16P
Patrice Bergeron 10GP 3G 4A = 7P

Brad Richards 10GP 1G 0A = 1P
Derek Stepan 10GP 3G 0A = 3P

So basically, our "top 2" Centers suck right now. Add that Nash has 1 goal, and well here we are.

I like Stepan as a player, he has a lot of potential. BUT he will never be a Logan Couture type player which is what any team needs down the middle to be competitive in today's league. He just doesn't have the offensive toolset. Only way you can get away with Step as your 2C in the playoffs is if you have a powerhouse 1C, which clearly we don't.
So Stepan is not even a 2C anymore? Ok...

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05-23-2013, 12:36 PM
  #60
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
So Stepan is not even a 2C anymore? Ok...
You tell me. Look at those stats for the teams currently winning games and look at their 2C.

And where did I say he wasn't? I said he could be if the team has a legitimate force at 1C. Which we're not even close to having..

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:38 PM
  #61
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
You tell me. Look at those stats for the teams currently winning games and look at their 2C.

And where did I say he wasn't? I said he could be if the team has a legitimate force at 1C. Which we're not even close to having..
He's not playing well. However, he's still young. We'll see. The guy was easily a #1 center in the regular season and now has #4 center production.

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05-23-2013, 12:38 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I like Stepan as a player
No you don't.

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05-23-2013, 12:39 PM
  #63
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I have no problem with Stepan's production (or lack of there) this playoffs.

He's had some tough games, but at the end of the day, he's a 2way playmaker, not a goal scorer. He can't make up for the fact that our most accomplished winger this postseason, given their ice time, has been Asham.

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05-23-2013, 12:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Brad Richards. 1 assist. - 3.

That's incredible haha.

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05-23-2013, 01:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post

oh man. laughed out loud for the first time in a while. thank you.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:23 PM
  #66
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
No you don't.
I do though. In comparing to the rest of the league's elite teams he's just not good enough offensively in the top 6 and he's proved this in each of his playoff outings. Maybe one day he will be but I doubt it. He doesn't have the offensive ceiling of a Couture esque player which IMO is what you need to be elite and really give yourself a good shot. What we can sit here and debate all day is whether or not this team can win a cup with Stepan's offensive (or lackthereof) play. What's not even debatable is that he's been hot garbage in each of his playoff stints

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05-23-2013, 01:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I do though.
What do you like about him?

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05-23-2013, 01:45 PM
  #68
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
What do you like about him?
He's a young, reliable defensive minded center that can pot a goal here and there. Above average playmaking ability, can play all situations if needed. Players like this are very valuable but.. He's not the ideal candidate for #1C on a contender. Or if you look at teams like PIT SJS LAK etc not #2 either unfortunately.

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Old
05-23-2013, 02:00 PM
  #69
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
He's a young, reliable defensive minded center that can pot a goal here and there. Above average playmaking ability, can play all situations if needed. Players like this are very valuable but.. He's not the ideal candidate for #1C on a contender. Or if you look at teams like PIT SJS LAK etc not #2 either unfortunately.
He was on a 30 goal pace and most of the goals were shots not garbage goals. Seems like he can do more than score a goal here and there.

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Old
05-23-2013, 02:12 PM
  #70
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
He was on a 30 goal pace and most of the goals were shots not garbage goals. Seems like he can do more than score a goal here and there.
In the regular season, sure. In the playoffs the Krecjis, Thorntons, Coutures, Malkins and Sharps of the world are putting up points. Our guy isn't, and hasn't. He's still very young; I'm not making a judgement call on a 22 year old. But fact remains he hasn't been good in the playoffs.

And I'm pretty sure he had a fair amount of tap-ins on the powerplay from the left circle. At least 4 or 5 off the top of my head I can think of. I'm not gonna debate goals though.. a goal is a goal. I'm just saying

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05-23-2013, 02:20 PM
  #71
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
In the regular season, sure. In the playoffs the Krecjis, Thorntons, Coutures, Malkins and Sharps of the world are putting up points. Our guy isn't, and hasn't. He's still very young; I'm not making a judgement call on a 22 year old. But fact remains he hasn't been good in the playoffs.

And I'm pretty sure he had a fair amount of tap-ins on the powerplay from the left circle. At least 4 or 5 off the top of my head I can think of. I'm not gonna debate goals though.. a goal is a goal. I'm just saying
Well his problem is not so much the 3 goals, it's the 0 assists. Would have had another goal but it somehow managed to go through Rask's legs and hit the post.

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Old
05-23-2013, 02:29 PM
  #72
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Well his problem is not so much the 3 goals, it's the 0 assists. Would have had another goal but it somehow managed to go through Rask's legs and hit the post.
Agreed. As dumb as this may sound but if that puck goes in this series MIGHT be different. We probably take game 2 if that puck goes in; would've changed the entire complexion of the game IMO

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05-23-2013, 02:31 PM
  #73
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Old
05-23-2013, 03:56 PM
  #74
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Agreed. As dumb as this may sound but if that puck goes in this series MIGHT be different. We probably take game 2 if that puck goes in; would've changed the entire complexion of the game IMO
If that puck went in, he'd be prorated to over 30 goals in an 82 game season.

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Old
05-23-2013, 04:00 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
In the regular season, sure. In the playoffs the Krecjis, Thorntons, Coutures, Malkins and Sharps of the world are putting up points. Our guy isn't, and hasn't. He's still very young; I'm not making a judgement call on a 22 year old. But fact remains he hasn't been good in the playoffs.

And I'm pretty sure he had a fair amount of tap-ins on the powerplay from the left circle. At least 4 or 5 off the top of my head I can think of. I'm not gonna debate goals though.. a goal is a goal. I'm just saying
Our entire team has sucked in the playoffs with the exception of Brass, Zuc, and Hank. I don't know whether to call the entire series an outlier as far as talent wise and just blame it on the coach of if it actually matters.

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