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Is Ryan Johansen going to be a problem???

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Old
05-22-2013, 08:54 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Johansen's actions in Springfield may not be enough for him to be traded, of course, but they are certainly worthy of examination. I'm sure the intention of the team in sending him down to join the Falcons in the playoffs was to see him continue and build on the progress seen down the stretch. Instead, he was benched. That is no longer speculation, that has been verified. Can it be overcome? Certainly. Should it be ignored? No. Everything a young player does factors into his future role with the team, as well as his value as an asset. Ryan, being young, has time to prove he's learned what is expected of him and make everyone forget what happened in the AHL playoffs.
I agree, it should not be ignored. But it shouldn't cause so much heartburn, either. Sorry, but the sanctimony rankles me.

He was scratched, his poor performance is in the press, his failure has been made public. I'm of the opinion those could potentially be positive things for his development.

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05-22-2013, 08:58 PM
  #127
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I thought Porty explained the situation quite well...

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05-22-2013, 09:02 PM
  #128
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I agree, it should not be ignored. But it shouldn't cause so much heartburn, either. Sorry, but the sanctimony rankles me.

He was scratched, his poor performance is in the press, his failure has been made public. I'm of the opinion those could potentially be positive things for his development.
Agreed, we don't have that much reason to worry. We don't have any information that he was sulking and didn't play well because he didn't want to be there (Note, this was the main hypothesis this thread started from). From what AP tweeted it seems he was just outplayed. The AHL playoffs are the pinnacle of the season for most AHL players, and it appears Johansen is still learning how to find that extra gear.

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05-22-2013, 09:19 PM
  #129
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Agreed, we don't have that much reason to worry. We don't have any information that he was sulking and didn't play well because he didn't want to be there (Note, this was the main hypothesis this thread started from). From what AP tweeted it seems he was just outplayed. The AHL playoffs are the pinnacle of the season for most AHL players, and it appears Johansen is still learning how to find that extra gear.
I think your point that we shouldn't blow this out of proportions is valid. I've made mistakes myself and have needed a good kick (either from myself or others) to rectify the situation and get back on track. I hope Joey can also use this to learn from his mistakes.

However, I'm not sure how you can chalk this up to Joey not being able to find an extra gear, and that we "don't have any information that he....didn't want to be there". I'm not sure how there can be any more clear evidence that this was a motivation issue.

It's not often you see quotes like these from a coach and a general manager:

Larsen: "I didnít feel like he was there. I didnít feel like he was all in."

Jarmo: "If you donít earn it, youíre going to sit. The coaching staff didnít think he earned his spot on the team, so he sat."

I don't want to trade him at this point but let's not white-wash what is pretty blatant. He'd have to be a rock at this point to not realize that he messed up - let's hope he puts it behind and comes to camp focused and with purpose.

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05-22-2013, 09:32 PM
  #130
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I think your point that we shouldn't blow this out of proportions is valid. I've made mistakes myself and have needed a good kick (either from myself or others) to rectify the situation and get back on track. I hope Joey can also use this to learn from his mistakes.

However, I'm not sure how you can chalk this up to Joey not being able to find an extra gear, and that we "don't have any information that he....didn't want to be there". I'm not sure how there can be any more clear evidence that this was a motivation issue.

It's not often you see quotes like these from a coach and a general manager:

Larsen: "I didnít feel like he was there. I didnít feel like he was all in."

Jarmo: "If you donít earn it, youíre going to sit. The coaching staff didnít think he earned his spot on the team, so he sat."

I don't want to trade him at this point but let's not white-wash what is pretty blatant. He'd have to be a rock at this point to not realize that he messed up - let's hope he puts it behind and comes to camp focused and with purpose.
I don't know if its a motivation issue or not, but the quotes you've cited aren't clear evidence that it is. Larsen's statement comes close, I'll give you that.

Also, when I say that perhaps he "couldn't find that extra gear" its not entirely different than saying a guy wasn't "all-in". Sometimes young players don't know how to go "all-in". There's a set of habits and practices that have to be learned.

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05-22-2013, 09:34 PM
  #131
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Obviously some around here are just like the old management teams and accept poor attitudes. I for one am happy as hell the new management is calling people out when they are turds.
Blah, blah, blah.

"John Clarkson was one of the greatest pitchers that ever lived - many regard him as the greatest, but not many know what an amount of encouragement it took to keep him going. Scold him, find fault with him, and he would not pitch at all. Say to him after a game 'Grand work John, I will probably have to use you again to-morrow, for we've got to have that game,' and he would go out the next day and stand all the batters on their heads."

To give some idea of how long ago that was, Cap Anson said that upon Clarkson's death in 1909. Clarkson has the 7th most wins by a pitcher in MLB history. He was neurotic, a hypochondriac, and a gentleman who still wasn't above a little bit of digging (he once pitched a lemon instead of a baseball to prove that it was too dark to continue on). Hell, he died at age 47 in an asylum.

But what this demonstrates is that it's possible to not just be great, but be an all-time great, despite not having the "personality" to achieve such lofty heights. Look just in hockey in the last 20 years. Brett Hull was a floater known for taking extended time off on the ice. Steve Yzerman was a whiner and a crybaby to an incredible extent. Wayne Gretzky couldn't be bothered to backcheck. Mario Lemieux constantly pulled the Otto von Bismarck card ("If I don't get my way, I'll just walk away!"). And yet...and yet all of them had success.

I don't have any idea what Johansen's career arc will look like. But to bury him at age 20 because you don't think he has "the right attitude"...give me a ****ing break.

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05-22-2013, 09:49 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
sorry, I think IHeartZherdev's got Pete on this one. The bolded may apply to everyone but Prout and Joey, but we have seen those two play in a highly pressurized second half run that came down to the final game. I've no doubt Jarmo is disappointed in what transpired down there, but if he trades Joey because of a handful of minor league games rather than keeping Joey because of his major league effectiveness, I will be dumbfounded. I know, or at least I hope, no one really believes Johansen will be traded over the Springfield stint, but I think the odds of him being traded based on his performance (rather than as part of a better package) are laughably tiny.

I know it feels good to flame a player for seemingly not caring, but if Jarmo is as smart as many of us seem to think he is, he recognizes Johansen's contributions to the Jackets' run and recognizes that he is still a kid.
So what, he was benched in the AHL after a very good performance for four weeks or more in Columbus... contributing to a playoff run no less... Perhaps he was a little down after being sent to the minor league club, who cares, many would be down and play halfhearted after the heat of battle at the major league level..

At times the press is a tool for NHL management, they knew scratching him in the minors would raise eyebrows in the media and fan base (and Johansens psyche)... It worked; trust me, Johansen is a key building block in Davidson's CBJ plan...

He will be around for a long time..

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05-22-2013, 09:49 PM
  #133
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I thought Porty explained the situation quite well...
Agreed. I hope Joey takes this in stride.

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05-23-2013, 07:55 AM
  #134
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Glad you are man enough to admit your short comings.



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I guess it shouldn't be surprising that a thread of this nature would compel a fair amount of self-righteousness, but DSL come on. Plenty of fans support players with bad attitudes in this game. And to equate that the silly canard that fans like that "hate winning" implicates yourself in the very thing you're supposedly trying to rectify in yourself.

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05-23-2013, 08:55 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
Sorry, but the sanctimony rankles me.
I don't think anyone has staked out a position of moral superiority, here, just trying to gauge the meaning of recent events and how they might affect the future of the player and the team. The story and its possible impact has spread to both mainstream and unconventional media around the hockey world. It would be unrealistic to think that posters here who are passionate about the Jackets would not join in the speculation.

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05-23-2013, 08:58 AM
  #136
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How about using one of the picks this year and RyJo to move way up in the 1st?

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05-23-2013, 09:10 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
How about using one of the picks this year and RyJo to move way up in the 1st?
I fail to see how that helps Blue Jackets in their quest to win a playoff game for the first time in their history next season.

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05-23-2013, 09:13 AM
  #138
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Wayne Gretzky couldn't be bothered to backcheck.
If you can score two or three points a game, I don't care if you back check. lol

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I don't have any idea what Johansen's career arc will look like. But to bury him at age 20 because you don't think he has "the right attitude"...give me a ****ing break.
We must be bored around here because we are making a big deal about the AHL playoffs. The question for me isn't what he did down there, the question is what he did up here.

There is enough evidence to start to question his mental make up. However, as I stated before, Diva's exist. You brought up a point earlier, it's not if you have a Diva it's how you manage the Diva.

Not really discussion your quote anymore.

Johasen worked along side everyone else during the last two months of the run. He played against some of the better player in the West and held his own. He managed to even be a plus player those last two months with questionable production. He scored a couple of huge goals. He was very good in the faceoff circle that last month. During the brief times he was on the ice with Gaborik, through game situations, he looked like a different player on the offensive side of the ice.

We can focus on the negatives or we can simply put the issue to rest, reflect on what he did, discuss what he needs to do, and see what he does in camp and into the regular season.

We know we need more production out of him, but I was content with his work in two of the three zones. The two most important zones. He obviously needs to improve on the PP, as does the entire team.

At any rate, we talked about, from the beginning, how Johansen was going to be a project. Maybe people either forgot or envisioned it being a challenge in other areas. To be honest, I never thought his transition would be smooth. However, when I look at him on the ice, he looks like a NHL player. Not sure where he is going to peak, but I'm content enough with his play that I think he can have a productive enough career. He may not put up the points that we hoped, too early to tell. But he can play against the top players in the league and not get abused.

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05-23-2013, 09:44 AM
  #139
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I fail to see how that helps Blue Jackets in their quest to win a playoff game for the first time in their history next season.
That hard to replace a guy that hasn't scored 10 goals in a year?

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05-23-2013, 09:49 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
How about using one of the picks this year and RyJo to move way up in the 1st?
Some talk about this in the draft thread.

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05-23-2013, 10:00 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
That hard to replace a guy that hasn't scored 10 goals in a year?
And can still shut down players like the sedins, datsyuk, Thornton, and next season crosby, Malkin, staal, etc...

Johansen is a elite player minus point production, give him time...hes not even 21...

Smh

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05-23-2013, 10:06 AM
  #142
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Some talk about this in the draft thread.
Sorry.

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05-23-2013, 10:23 AM
  #143
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is the headshake because we both missed the sarcasm of your original post?

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05-23-2013, 10:25 AM
  #144
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Sorry.
No sweat. Just wanted to make you aware of it.

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05-23-2013, 10:28 AM
  #145
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is the headshake because we both missed the sarcasm of your original post?
Sarcasm. Irony. Satire. Whichever.

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05-23-2013, 12:11 PM
  #146
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Plenty of fans support players with bad attitudes in this game.
So if a fan were to look past the bad to find the good, realizing that these player are, indeed human and we are going to get player of different varieties. That is a fault that should be called out and possibly mocked for? That differing of opinion is a fault in a fan that should be changed because the opposing view point is far superior?

We seem to be taking a very black and white view to players and our own fans.

I've tried to draw a distinction. If Johansen is willing to listen to our NHL coaching staff, accept is role, and not be an issue in the locker room than I will accept his other short comings. No one is perfect and if he offers something that others on the roster can't provide or are better suited for other roles, than I am willing to look past the flaws, conditionally.

The reality is there are very few of us here that can relate to anything these players go through, but yet we have no issue being judgmental. I am not immune to it, but I tend to take my time forming my opinions/judgements and leave room that I could be wrong. If I turn out to be wrong I admit it.

At any rate, I have no issue with how JK or the coaching staff handled it. I am disappointed he didn't perform better, but at the same time if we get back the player that we had at the end of the season, at a minimum, to start the season, I will be content and look past it. JK/JD and the coaching staff can monitor the situation better than we can and will deal with it as necessary.

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05-23-2013, 01:47 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I don't think anyone has staked out a position of moral superiority, here, just trying to gauge the meaning of recent events and how they might affect the future of the player and the team. The story and its possible impact has spread to both mainstream and unconventional media around the hockey world. It would be unrealistic to think that posters here who are passionate about the Jackets would not join in the speculation.
If I imagined something that's not there, my bad. But I know for certain that aspersions like "turd" were being thrown around freely in this thread. thank god my kid can't read yet!

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So if a fan were to look past the bad to find the good, realizing that these player are, indeed human and we are going to get player of different varieties. That is a fault that should be called out and possibly mocked for? That differing of opinion is a fault in a fan that should be changed because the opposing view point is far superior?

We seem to be taking a very black and white view to players and our own fans.

I've tried to draw a distinction. If Johansen is willing to listen to our NHL coaching staff, accept is role, and not be an issue in the locker room than I will accept his other short comings. No one is perfect and if he offers something that others on the roster can't provide or are better suited for other roles, than I am willing to look past the flaws, conditionally.

The reality is there are very few of us here that can relate to anything these players go through, but yet we have no issue being judgmental. I am not immune to it, but I tend to take my time forming my opinions/judgements and leave room that I could be wrong. If I turn out to be wrong I admit it.

At any rate, I have no issue with how JK or the coaching staff handled it. I am disappointed he didn't perform better, but at the same time if we get back the player that we had at the end of the season, at a minimum, to start the season, I will be content and look past it. JK/JD and the coaching staff can monitor the situation better than we can and will deal with it as necessary.
Trying to figure why you're quoting me here. I agree with your post, I was trying to make the same point. Granted, I was doing so in response to a satirical post in which I missed the sarcasm, but...

I'm not criticizing fans for supporting players with bad attitudes. I do it, too, and generally refrain as much as possible from ascribing a bad attitude to someone I don't know. When someone like no. 77 makes it easy, it's another story, and when someone like no. 61 walks away I enjoy watching him struggle. But now I've wandered...

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05-23-2013, 02:31 PM
  #148
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Trying to figure why you're quoting me here. I agree with your post, I was trying to make the same point. Granted, I was doing so in response to a satirical post in which I missed the sarcasm, but...
I think you missed the sarcasm in the first post, but pub didn't.

I quoted you because I didn't understand your position, which others hold dearly and I've seen around here a lot. It gave me a chance to get you to clarify your position will still making my point to the group at large.

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05-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #149
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The playoffs are the forum in which a player demonstrates whether he has a real passion for the game or doesn't. Some players have it; others don't.

Sugarcoating Johansen's documented (Larsen's and JK's quotes and the elimination game benching suffice) heartless play won't change the fact that he has shown-until proven otherwise-that he lacks the passion of a winner. The AHL playoffs were the highest level of playoff hockey where Johansen has ever played. An appropriate forum for him to have demonstrated his passion for winning. He didn't. In fact he was on the far other end of the compete/passion spectrum. Pretending that this is an "end of the season disappointment" or any other lame excuse is avoiding the reality of the situation.

He will be rightfully judged going forward by CBJ management with this huge red flag in mind.

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05-23-2013, 03:52 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
The playoffs are the forum in which a player demonstrates whether he has a real passion for the game or doesn't. Some players have it; others don't.

Sugarcoating Johansen's documented (Larsen's and JK's quotes and the elimination game benching suffice) heartless play won't change the fact that he has shown-until proven otherwise-that he lacks the passion of a winner. The AHL playoffs were the highest level of playoff hockey where Johansen has ever played. An appropriate forum for him to have demonstrated his passion for winning. He didn't. In fact he was on the far other end of the compete/passion spectrum. Pretending that this is an "end of the season disappointment" or any other lame excuse is avoiding the reality of the situation.

He will be rightfully judged going forward by CBJ management with this huge red flag in mind.
Eh, more like a minor small red flag. Hes young, at the end of a extremely tough season, hes tired. He was committed enough last off season to get a live-in trainer and gained 20 lbs of muscle and kept his speed. Lets see if he keeps up with that, maybe go fire some pucks with one of his new wingers (gaborik) learn a thing or two lol. Seriously Johansen still has teammates on Portland he played with when he was there. He's not that far off from the Jrs himself. As for his attitude he was the starting momentum for the winning attitude that has started here (i live in oregon). And this year when he takes on a semi-major role the team thrived. Give him time.. Some players come in the league and dominate, some take time to grow and develop. I seriously think everybody is making to much of this. Could Johansen be moved this offseason? Anyone can for the right price, but since Johanden completely shutdown Thorton the thought of trading him makes no sense with the centers we're going to be facing next year. Even if we trade for a top pick that would set us back at least a year or two.. I honestly cant believe how everyone really feels about him. I feel like im the only one who doesnt think its that big of a deal even if JK does.

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