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2013 Draft Thread: "Shoo-in for Nichushkin"

View Poll Results: Draft goes Jones/Mackinnon/Drouin/Barkov/Nichushkin/Nurse. Who should they take?
Monahan 138 73.02%
Lindholm 51 26.98%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-23-2013, 02:19 PM
  #501
dnicks17
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Lindholm pretty much does everything Lazar and Horvat does... Just better. If we pass on him I'll be pissed.
If he's better offensively than Monahan and better defensively than Horvat/Lazar(who I think are just as good, if not better, than Monahan in that regard), why isn't he unanimously ranked ahead of Monahan?

Seems odd.

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05-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Perhaps I am wrong and Lazar or Horvat will become a top 2 C. But we shouldn't be banking on that. Neither of those guys are consistently ranked in the top 10 on most draft lists. I remember way back in the day when Ryan O'Marra was the safest pick in the draft and would turn into a physical 3C bare minimum, with a really solid chance of being a 2C. Things don't always work out that way.

If the Oilers want to take Horvat or Lazar then they should trade down. Taking either of those guys at 7 is exactly the same as taking Moroz last year. Taking a player they like higher than they should.

Of course, I don't think they should trade down at all. I think they should trade up for Barkov, and failing that, take whoever falls to them out of Nichushkin, Lindholm or Monahan.
What makes you think they won't be a perfect fit on the Oil. Put a center who is strong on the puck, gritty, physical and awesome defensively between Hall/Yakupov/Eberle and how isn't that exactly what we need. Clearly having a skill guy like Gagner isnt doing it. It's not like Horvat or Lazar don't have offensive capabilities either.

We have so much top end talent on the wings, I don't think we are so desperate for a 2A center like some suggest. We just need some players to do some heaving lifting, not score 80 pts. If we can get a Lindholm or Monahan, perfect. But when trying to fill a 2nd line center role, I really don't see the drop off being that big when talking about Horvat or Lazar. I see these guys definitely being a top 6 center and worst case scenerio being a 3rd line center or winger.

Do you really see Lazar or Horvat being no better than what Horcoff is for us now in their prime? Or actually turning into O'Marra 2.0?

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05-23-2013, 02:37 PM
  #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
If he's better offensively than Monahan and better defensively than Horvat/Lazar(who I think are just as good, if not better, than Monahan in that regard), why isn't he unanimously ranked ahead of Monahan?

Seems odd.
Honestly, I don't see Lindholm IMO that much better offensively then Monahan. Not because he isn't gifted but I think Monahans offense is a bit underrated. I still think he is better offensively and better then Monahan. I just like Monahan more for the Oilers because of the size and face off ability. I think he also has more pride in shutting people down.

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05-23-2013, 02:53 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
If he's better offensively than Monahan and better defensively than Horvat/Lazar(who I think are just as good, if not better, than Monahan in that regard), why isn't he unanimously ranked ahead of Monahan?

Seems odd.
Isnt as big \ doesnt play in NA \ isnt a faceoffs expert.

Glennie vs (Center version of ) Paajarvi

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05-23-2013, 03:23 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I'm only talking Lazar/Horvat if Monahan isn't on the board. I don't know enough about Lindholm to say if I'd rather him over Lazar/Horvat. As for Nichushkin, I think he would be an absolutely disastrous pick, so I don't even consider him.

I don't see any point trading down if Monahan isn't on the board. Take the player you want. Don't trade down two or three spots, get a 3rd rounder in return and pray your player is still on the board.
My issue is with taking Lazar/Horvat over Lindholm. Lindholm may not be huge, but he's strong, and he could be an absolute dynamite player. What if(knock on wood) RNH has recurring shoulder issues. Would you rather have Lindholm as plan B or Lazar/Horvat.

I am not sure why you are so down on Nich. Many scouts say he's right there with the top of the draft in terms of potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
100% agree with this. I highly doubt Monahan goes past Calgary, but with Feaster in charge anything could happen there. Odds are it'll be between Nichushkin and Lindholm at 7, and I'd be good with either.
I'd be fine with that too. I hope that is what the Oilers do. I am just not sure that they won't trade down to grab the guy who plays under their nose just because they've seen him the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Brodziak View Post
What makes you think they won't be a perfect fit on the Oil. Put a center who is strong on the puck, gritty, physical and awesome defensively between Hall/Yakupov/Eberle and how isn't that exactly what we need. Clearly having a skill guy like Gagner isnt doing it. It's not like Horvat or Lazar don't have offensive capabilities either.

We have so much top end talent on the wings, I don't think we are so desperate for a 2A center like some suggest. We just need some players to do some heaving lifting, not score 80 pts. If we can get a Lindholm or Monahan, perfect. But when trying to fill a 2nd line center role, I really don't see the drop off being that big when talking about Horvat or Lazar. I see these guys definitely being a top 6 center and worst case scenerio being a 3rd line center or winger.

Do you really see Lazar or Horvat being no better than what Horcoff is for us now in their prime? Or actually turning into O'Marra 2.0?
O'Marra put up good junior numbers and no one thinks a 1st round listed player is going to bust pre draft. That is why they are a 1st round listed player. My points were that it happens, and suggesting that it's impossible that Lazar or Horvat could bust is a mistake. 2003 was the deepest draft in forever and we still pulled a bust out of the 1st round.

We should trade up for the name we want or take whichever of Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Nichushkin, or Lindholm reaches 7.

If we really like a Nurse/Risto/Horvat/Lazar, then try to package our 2nds and a good young player/prosepct for a later 1st.

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05-23-2013, 03:34 PM
  #506
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Would be interested in knowing how many of the Lindholm supporters have actually seen him play a game or two? If people remember Paajarvi was ranked top 5 in his draft year and fell to 10 and people were laughing at Burke for taking Kadri. After learning from that I tried to stop going by what scouting sources said and actually watch the player before making comments.

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05-23-2013, 03:39 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Neilio View Post
This is my impression as well. I'd take Monahan first, but if Lindholm is there, I think you take him. Lazar and Horvat will be useful NHLers but I don't think the ceiling is quite as high. I see Horvat as a Brandon Dubinsky type player. And Lazar maybe Mike Peca -ish. Both good and useful players but not top-end enough for #7.
I think of Horvat as being comparable to Bolland but not quite as good at agitating. Lazar reminds me of Stepan with less offense, but a little more grit.

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05-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  #508
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Monahan reminds me of a poor-man's Joe Niewendyk. Everything about their games are similar, even down to the fact that they were both stand-out lacross players. I still prefer Lindholm, but I'd be very happy to get Monahan. RNH/Monahan would look a lot like the Modano/Nieuwendyk one-two punch that the Stars used to pummel us in the late 90s and early 00s. It works extra well with the Schultz/Zubov comparisons that were thrown around so much this past offseason.

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05-23-2013, 04:21 PM
  #509
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If the oilers want lazar I hope they trade down, I dont see him going before 14th after a average whl season.

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05-23-2013, 04:47 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Would be interested in knowing how many of the Lindholm supporters have actually seen him play a game or two? If people remember Paajarvi was ranked top 5 in his draft year and fell to 10 and people were laughing at Burke for taking Kadri. After learning from that I tried to stop going by what scouting sources said and actually watch the player before making comments.
I've seen him for more than a few games and I have always liked what I've seen. I was Monahan > Lindholm up until a couple of days ago but then I changed my mind so I vote Lindholm. Don't ask me for specific reasons, both seem like great prospects and I'd be thrilled with either one of them. I just hope one of them will be available at 7th.

I do not understand what Paajarvi, Kadri and laughing at Burke have to do with this?

Is Lindholm = Paajarvi and Monahan = Kadri in your opinion? I find that a bit odd.

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05-23-2013, 04:51 PM
  #511
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I'm pretty pumped about Nichushkin coming over next year. My two favorites are now Monahan and Nichushkin. I'd be happy with either one and furious if we didn't get either (unless someone slips)

COL - Seth Jones
FLA - Nate Mackinnon
TBL - Jonathan Drouin
NSH - Sasha Barkov
CAR - Valeri Nichushkin
CGY - Elias Lindholm
EDM - Sean Monahan

This is how I see it playing out. Tampa will consider taking Nichushkin, but how could they pass on Drouin? Nashville loves players like Barkov and after Radulov I can't see them taking a Russian. They've also never had a potential #1 center.. Carolina will take either Monahan or Nichushkin. Now that Valeri is coming over I can definitely see him going there. They have Semin and Tlusty there already to help ease him in. Calgary will take a center.. Flames fans seem to want Lindholm more than Monahan so I'll go with it.

Even if Carolina takes Monahan, Calgary would still take Lindholm I think so it's either Nichushkin or Monahan for us which is fantastic. Worst case scenario is Carolina takes Nichushkin, and Calgary takes Monahan leaving us Lindholm. Still a good pick at that point.

Other possibilities..

COL - Seth Jones
FLA - Nathan MacKinnon
TBL - Valeri Nichushkin
NSH - Jonathan Drouin
CAR - Sasha Barkov
CGY - Elias Lindholm
EDM - Sean Monahan

COL - Seth Jones
FLA - Nate MacKinnon
TBL - Jonathan Drouin
NSH - Elias Lindholm
CAR - Sasha Barkov
CGY - Sean Monahan
EDM - Valeri Nichushkin

#7 is really the perfect spot.. After 7 is a drop off and before 7 the possibilities are endless. I could totally see Tampa taking Nichushkin, and Nashville taking Lindholm even leaving Drouin and Barkov to slide. Our pick value has also increased after the news of Nichushkin.

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05-23-2013, 04:55 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
O'Marra put up good junior numbers and no one thinks a 1st round listed player is going to bust pre draft. That is why they are a 1st round listed player. My points were that it happens, and suggesting that it's impossible that Lazar or Horvat could bust is a mistake. 2003 was the deepest draft in forever and we still pulled a bust out of the 1st round.

We should trade up for the name we want or take whichever of Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Nichushkin, or Lindholm reaches 7.

If we really like a Nurse/Risto/Horvat/Lazar, then try to package our 2nds and a good young player/prosepct for a later 1st.
If **** hits the fan, yes anyone can bust.. Is that really your point? I don't see how it changes the notion that horvat and lazar are two of the safest picks out there. They clearly have the qualities of being a 3rd line checker in case somehow their offense doesnt translate over, can you say the same about other prospects? If you're drafting those guys in the 1st round, you clearly are expecting their offense to translate over. If there offense does come then these are the guys that turn into the bergeron/backes/brown/richards/callahan/doan type players that we desperately need to go with our high end skill

If you really like your guy, whats wrong taking him at 7 if you dont like whats left. Especially when we need center depth, the most important position. I think packaging your 2nds and whatever else to move into the top 15 will be next to impossible. Teams will hold onto those picks like every other year so how is that an option?

If you think you can trade down and still get Horvat or Lazar and something else, go ahead, but take the guy who you think is going to be a difference maker for this club regardless. BPA is always subjective.

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05-23-2013, 04:57 PM
  #513
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Lindholm is likely going to be better than Monahan. Kid is nuts.

Monahan is a great player but there is this ridiculous cult of personality developing around him on this board that IMO is unjustified.

Lindholm has all the tools to be the next Zetterberg. Monahan projects more like a Jordan Staal, IMO.

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05-23-2013, 05:07 PM
  #514
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Will be happy with one of these 7 and even Nurse... Dont want Oilers to outsmart other scouts and go off the board.. (Zadorov being an example)

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05-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Kyle Brodziak View Post
If you think you can trade down and still get Horvat or Lazar and something else, go ahead, but take the guy who you think is going to be a difference maker for this club regardless. BPA is always subjective.
I'll give you that BPA is subjective to some degree but you have to admit that players are usually grouped together at the draft. From every single scouting report I have seen, the same 7-8 guys are at the top. I could honestly care less which of Monahan and Lindholm we draft because they are in the same group. If the oilers feel like one player fits the organization better then you can't say they went against the "BPA mentality". However, if you draft someone from a group below you, you can definitely say you didn't correspond to the BPA mentality.

The Oilers did a good job "grabbing their guy" with Alex Plante and Riley Nash in 2007 as well. That didn't exactly go over well.

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05-23-2013, 05:16 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
Lindholm is likely going to be better than Monahan. Kid is nuts.

Monahan is a great player but there is this ridiculous cult of personality developing around him on this board that IMO is unjustified.

Lindholm has all the tools to be the next Zetterberg. Monahan projects more like a Jordan Staal, IMO.
Forget Staal, all we really need is a Stoll at this point.. Also there is a greater chance of Lindholm becoming a Jacob Josefson than a Zetterberg..

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05-23-2013, 05:25 PM
  #517
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You know what I hate commenting so strongly when I haven't seen the majority of a season of a player but I will anyways. I know scouting reports have questioned Monahans offensive upside but the games I saw this year (and last year and 2 from year before) I see a great offensive player. In 2 of the games I caught of his this year, he created a bunch of scoring chances with his passing but his teammates fumbled his passes, weren't paying attention and let it just go by them (which u don't see at NHL level much but do so in junior) or just couldn't convert. I didn't have any issue with his 5 on 5 play. I know a lot of his points came on the pp but I think he is a fabulous offensive player in any situation. I think if we got him he would be a great offensive player for us and would be behind only Hall in terms of creating. Yes Yak is great but that is how highly I think of Monahans offensive game. So why aren't the scouting reports saying the same? Not sure, maybe I'm out to lunch( I don't think so but maybe its possible ).

I think Monahan has 70-80 point potential. Combine that with his defensive game and ability on the dot, pp and PK and you have the 2nd best player in draft (behind only Mack). I think if he had better team and line mates we wouldn't be talking about Monahan as he would be battling for the top 5. I really hope we get this guy. He would be a godsend. But I'm not a scout - just a fan. And I've been wrong about a lot of players in the past.
70-80 points is a bit high. in the 11-12 season only 21 players got 70 points or more. It is harder than what people think. If Monahan can average 50 points, be very good at the two way game, shut down other lines and rule in the dot I would be more than happy with that as that is what this team needs in a 2C.

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05-23-2013, 05:31 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by titsuple View Post
If the oilers want lazar I hope they trade down, I dont see him going before 14th after a average whl season.
To me, you don't trade down unless it's part of a much bigger deal.

trading down is the opposite of a "bold" move

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05-23-2013, 05:33 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Samwise Gagner View Post
You could pretty much call me the captain of the Monahan bandwagon all season, but this footage has me wondering if I'd rather see Nichuskin slide instead...

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Originally Posted by oilers2k10 View Post
If he is available Oilers must take him..he's got more size than any forward in the top ten..sure he's a winger, but put him and Yakupov around Gagner and we will be fine.
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
If he is signed to a NHL contract he can't go back, so that really isn't a worry unless the kid is unwilling to sign a contract until after TC.
If Nich is there at 7 we have to take him. He is that big body to play in the top 6, that is something this team really needs. I would draft him and still look at getting a bigger 2C. We can't have RNH and Gagner as our top two centremen. Wonder if Yak and Nich can click together. Even having Eberle with Nich would be sweet.

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05-23-2013, 05:37 PM
  #520
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Is anybody really surprised that the Oilers value Horvat and Lazar? Lazar we all knew about......Horvat is basically the same player just a tad bit bigger.

Both players are the kinds of players we have been missing and MacT loved those types of guys as coach.

I'm sure the Oilers will try to trade up to 5th to get Monahan but if not i think they will try to move down a few spots so they can hopefully get one of Horvat or Lazar.

I think all signs are pointing to a deal with PHX.

Gagner + Edm 1st
For
Yandle + PHX 1st
I would do that deal

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05-23-2013, 05:43 PM
  #521
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I'll give you that BPA is subjective to some degree but you have to admit that players are usually grouped together at the draft. From every single scouting report I have seen, the same 7-8 guys are at the top. I could honestly care less which of Monahan and Lindholm we draft because they are in the same group. If the oilers feel like one player fits the organization better then you can't say they went against the "BPA mentality". However, if you draft someone from a group below you, you can definitely say you didn't correspond to the BPA mentality.

The Oilers did a good job "grabbing their guy" with Alex Plante and Riley Nash in 2007 as well. That didn't exactly go over well.
Yes, you are correct.. I got caught exaggerating the point. BPA is subjective to some degree but then again when you look back at drafts, the top 15 consensus BPA's are never the same down the line. If you could tell me walking away from this draft we will have 1 of Monahan, Lindholm, Lazar, or Horvat, I will be happy regardless. I think all of them are outstanding and bring what we lack in a 2nd C spot. It's not like whoever we draft won't be playing with fantastic wingers even if we do miss out on top end prospects like Monahan and Lindholm.

We are not drafting a face of the franchise here like Calgary is trying to do. We really are trying to draft a guy who will be 5th or 6th fiddle on this team and a lot of guys out there fit that role, even if we miss out on group B of BPA and reach 4-7 spots to take a guy out of "group C". Just get the guy who will make the difference for us down the road and Horvat and Lazar have the styles to do just that.

Don't know what Plante and Nash have to do with this. Were people really vouching for us to draft these guys regardless of position or if we had to reach?

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05-23-2013, 05:47 PM
  #522
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This is my impression as well. I'd take Monahan first, but if Lindholm is there, I think you take him. Lazar and Horvat will be useful NHLers but I don't think the ceiling is quite as high. I see Horvat as a Brandon Dubinsky type player. And Lazar maybe Mike Peca -ish. Both good and useful players but not top-end enough for #7.
I agree, I have seen Lazar a few times this year and I see him more as a 3C than a 2C. Not saying he won't help you win but when drafting 7th you don't pass on a top 6 player to get a 3C.

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05-23-2013, 05:56 PM
  #523
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I went with Monahan, mainly because he plays in NA, has the size that we need and will be the ideal 2C. If we get any of Nich, Monahan or Lind I will be happy. I think that Lind will be just over 6ft and 200lbs in 3 yres so he won't be small. I don't believe that Gagner is 5"11" and 195lbs. They added on an inch and a half and about 15 lbs. You can see it when he plays against people. He gets thrown around.

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05-23-2013, 05:57 PM
  #524
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70-80 points is a bit high. in the 11-12 season only 21 players got 70 points or more. It is harder than what people think. If Monahan can average 50 points, be very good at the two way game, shut down other lines and rule in the dot I would be more than happy with that as that is what this team needs in a 2C.
I think he is the type of player that elevates the play of those around him and with the talent we have on wings he could out up big points.

If he went to Calgary I see him in tht 50-60 range. With us I think he would be that 70-80 point guy. His best asset is his IQ....with the talent we have he should be able to maximize his and his wingers play (and points).

He has that Getzlaf element. What I'm trying to say in a roundabout way is that some players need the puck to be effective. Say Duchene. Dutch could come to us and I don't see his points going up much (if at all). Monahan is opposite where he plays to other strengths. Like Getzlaf


Last edited by doubledown99: 05-23-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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05-23-2013, 06:03 PM
  #525
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Wonder if the the Sabres would consider a trade like this if the player they want is available at 7?

To EDM:
8th (Nurse/Risto) & 16th (Lazar/Horvat/Wennberg....)

To BUF:
7th (Nichushkin/Monahanahan/Whoever) overall and 37th

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