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Old
01-02-2004, 04:13 PM
  #51
Brooklyn Ranger
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Originally Posted by barnaby63
Yes. Anyone with half a brain would realize this thread was pointless utill Laches and Davisian started to talk with legit points.

Brooklyn, we are still waiting for you to answer RangerDieHards question. Or are you avoiding it?

As for Ekman, part of it was what you stated. That he wanted a guaranteed chance at making the top 6. But i did read in one of the locals that Ekman said that if he didnt make the top 6 that he wanted to be traded(i mean i hope you would realize how easy it is for Ekman to think that with you so casually pointing out how Sather had something out for him so he knew he wouldnt be on the team so he demaded a trade), now knowing that Sather would later sign Hlavac, Sather didnt feel like he needed a demanding player like that so he got good value for him.
Sorry, I never saw what you claim Ekman said, and thanks to the internet, I read just about every article published in the NYC area about the Rangers. Especially during the summer. And if I knew that he said it I wouldn't hide it to further my cause. There's certainly plenty of ammunition out there to support just about any viewpoint without stretching things.

I saw your post first so you win the prize, I will respond to rangerdiehard when I have an extra moment. And inquiring minds are waiting to know your answer to the question: what is the ultimate goal of a hockey team?

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Old
01-02-2004, 04:21 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
Sorry, I never saw what you claim Ekman said, and thanks to the internet, I read just about every article published in the NYC area about the Rangers. Especially during the summer. And if I knew that he said it I wouldn't hide it to further my cause. There's certainly plenty of ammunition out there to support just about any viewpoint without stretching things.

I saw your post first so you win the prize, I will respond to rangerdiehard when I have an extra moment. And inquiring minds are waiting to know your answer to the question: what is the ultimate goal of a hockey team?
Selective reading? I already answered that not only in this thread but another i believe. The main goal is to win the Stanley Cup. IF you want to base your entire feelings on Sather by that, then yes he has been a failure. But as i say OVER AND OVER but you seem to overlook, he has IMO improved(not rebuilt) the system and improved the talent level on the team. Most of his trades work out or are complete steals and most of his signings are at least decent except for a few. So i look at Sather has a decent general manager. Not great, but not ****** either.

Can you read that ok?

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Old
01-02-2004, 04:24 PM
  #53
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Brooklyn, inquiring minds want to know. What was the point of this thread? Seems pretty useless to everyone else.

Just to let you know, i am done posting in this thread unless you say something crazy. Figured i would let you know for you dont think my silence means you proved me wrong.

I know these are damned words around here but...LETS GO RANGERS!!!!!

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Old
01-02-2004, 04:45 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
starting this thread makes me believe that you may be somewhat defensive on this subject. Of course I could be wrong so I'll just ask you - how good do you think Zidlicky is as a player now and how good do you think he will be? In your opinion who do you think made the better trade? I'm asking out of curiosity.
I'm sorry, I guess I haven't made myself clear recently. I believe in building from within. I want to see players who were drafted by the Rangers, developed by their farm system and play together until they form a real team. Then I would consider looking for free agents and trading for players to fill in the holes.

I wanted to see Zidlicky with my own eyes, playing for the team that drafted him. I wanted to see if he could cut it in the NHL. I was and am willing to watch and support a team that plays young players--knowing they make mistakes--and firmly believe that the vast majority of fans would also support this approach, especially if management had a plan and explained it to Ranger fans. The bottom line in this town is about putting on a good show and as long as hockey players play hard, do their best EVERY SINGLE SHIFT and are coached well, the wins will follow. Having home grown talent that fans see from the time they enter the NHL only adds to the excitement and makes the show that much better.

It would have cost NOTHING but a few bucks to sign Zidlicky. If he doesn't make the NHL roster, too bad, he plays in Hartford for a season and then goes home. At least then we would have known.

And that's the bottom line: I had NO IDEA how good Zidlicky is or could be. Same with Ekman, same with Holmqvist. I have NO IDEA how good Tjutin will be, or Wiseman or Lampman or Jussiman. I WANT to know. And I want to know while these players are playing for ME, in a Rangers uniform. I want these kids to be proud of the organization they represent. I'm sick of watching mercernaries play for their retirement checks. Because every time they mail it in they crap on a uniform I love and the only team I root for.

The result may not be that much different. But, getting there would be a hell of a lot easier to take and a lot more fun to watch.

SALVATION LIES WITHIN.

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Old
01-02-2004, 08:31 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
I'm sorry, I guess I haven't made myself clear recently. I believe in building from within. I want to see players who were drafted by the Rangers, developed by their farm system and play together until they form a real team. Then I would consider looking for free agents and trading for players to fill in the holes.

I wanted to see Zidlicky with my own eyes, playing for the team that drafted him. I wanted to see if he could cut it in the NHL. I was and am willing to watch and support a team that plays young players--knowing they make mistakes--and firmly believe that the vast majority of fans would also support this approach, especially if management had a plan and explained it to Ranger fans. The bottom line in this town is about putting on a good show and as long as hockey players play hard, do their best EVERY SINGLE SHIFT and are coached well, the wins will follow. Having home grown talent that fans see from the time they enter the NHL only adds to the excitement and makes the show that much better.

It would have cost NOTHING but a few bucks to sign Zidlicky. If he doesn't make the NHL roster, too bad, he plays in Hartford for a season and then goes home. At least then we would have known.

And that's the bottom line: I had NO IDEA how good Zidlicky is or could be. Same with Ekman, same with Holmqvist. I have NO IDEA how good Tjutin will be, or Wiseman or Lampman or Jussiman. I WANT to know. And I want to know while these players are playing for ME, in a Rangers uniform. I want these kids to be proud of the organization they represent. I'm sick of watching mercernaries play for their retirement checks. Because every time they mail it in they crap on a uniform I love and the only team I root for.

The result may not be that much different. But, getting there would be a hell of a lot easier to take and a lot more fun to watch.

SALVATION LIES WITHIN.
I understand your points about building within and growing the farm system; don't you think I would love to see the Rangers draft a player like Gaborik or Kovalchuk and watch them play for the next 10 years wearing Red, White and Blue? But at the same time I too feel that the ultimate go is to win the Stanley Cup and sometimes players both young and old need to be moved in order to improve the teams' chances of accomplishing that ultimate goal. Philly acquired Comrie but they had to give up first round pick Jeff Woywitka and 2 other picks to land him.
Has Sather been successful - of course not, we havn't even made the playoffs. But the trades that we speak about IMO would not have accomplished that.
Almost every player that we acquire (Carter, Kovalev, etc) underachieves; there is a problem from within. This has nothing to do with the players themselves but rather the system itself and no 19 year old prospect will magically help the situation. Most importantly so far we didn't deal away any impact players; but in all honesty I have a bad feeling about Novak but we'll see.
Hey the trades are done and I'm confident that the team will finally make the playoffs this year and that should be on everyone's minds right now, not what would've happened if we kept Marek Zidlicky, Nils Ekman or Ronald Petrovicky (11 goals?!)

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Old
01-04-2004, 04:36 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
Selective reading? I already answered that not only in this thread but another i believe. The main goal is to win the Stanley Cup. IF you want to base your entire feelings on Sather by that, then yes he has been a failure. But as i say OVER AND OVER but you seem to overlook, he has IMO improved(not rebuilt) the system and improved the talent level on the team. Most of his trades work out or are complete steals and most of his signings are at least decent except for a few. So i look at Sather has a decent general manager. Not great, but not ****** either.

Can you read that ok?

Who cares if he marginally improved the team. And did he even do that? We have been in the same spot at the end of every year... in the race for the #8 spot and we miss by a few points and end up at .500 give or take a game. I judge this team by their record, by the W's and points.

Talent? Great... they are talented LOSERS. This team is old so even if he did improve the talent level he still doesn't have a team that will come close to winning a cup because... I have no idea why. I'll believe the farm system bit when I see these kids play in the NHL.

Talent shouldn't mean anything. Our team is not in a better spot, we are turning into (or become a bigger) joke of the league, we are in a financial mess, and the team is losing the fan base in New York. Sather has failed miserably and there is no excuse for that. 3 years is more than enough time.

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Old
01-04-2004, 07:10 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
Ugh. As i have already said, if you base your opinion on Sather entirely on making the playoffs, then yes he has failed.

But i maintain, this team is better right now then it was 3 years ago. Of course not on the record, but the talent is better than it was then, and the farm is improved from 3 years ago. Hardly a juggernat like Ottawa's system, but its not a bad start.
---The improvement of the farm system is arguable at best. On this very site, the Rangers were ranked 8th out of 30 teams when Sather took over. They are now ranked 28th out of 30 teams. Sather has traded away so many prospects, draft picks and young players, it's difficult to keep track. I don't think Sather deserves any credit in this area.

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Old
01-04-2004, 09:07 AM
  #58
barnaby63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laches
---The improvement of the farm system is arguable at best. On this very site, the Rangers were ranked 8th out of 30 teams when Sather took over. They are now ranked 28th out of 30 teams. Sather has traded away so many prospects, draft picks and young players, it's difficult to keep track. I don't think Sather deserves any credit in this area.
and out of all those young players he traded, are any of them good?

Barrett Heisten
Manny Malholtra
Tomas Kloucek
Pavel Brendl
Rico Fata
Kim Johnsson
Mike York
Filip Novak

Out of that group York and Johnsson are the only good ones and in return we got a decent offensive-defenseman and a number 1 center.

Either way, the reason why they were ranked so high when sather took over was because of all the "good young" players we had. We had no depth in the system but a few high end prospects that never turned out like expected.(york and johnsson werent top prospects, they kinda came out of nowhere)

Now we have depth but not a big group of top end talent. Jessiman, Lundqvist, Blackburn, Dawes, Moore and Tyutin arent a bad start.

You get the last word.

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Old
01-04-2004, 01:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
and out of all those young players he traded, are any of them good?

Barrett Heisten
Manny Malholtra
Tomas Kloucek
Pavel Brendl
Rico Fata
Kim Johnsson
Mike York
Filip Novak

Out of that group York and Johnsson are the only good ones and in return we got a decent offensive-defenseman and a number 1 center.

Either way, the reason why they were ranked so high when sather took over was because of all the "good young" players we had. We had no depth in the system but a few high end prospects that never turned out like expected.(york and johnsson werent top prospects, they kinda came out of nowhere)

Now we have depth but not a big group of top end talent. Jessiman, Lundqvist, Blackburn, Dawes, Moore and Tyutin arent a bad start.

You get the last word.

Why are we wasting time with the prospect talk, none of these guys matter until they contribute in the NHL.

Barnaby on your last point in our arguement, I really dont understand how you can be satisfied with Sather so far. To show you an analagy, it's like if a kid was getting D's in school and needed a C average to graduate he (or his parents) hire a tutor to help him raise his grades to AT LEAST passing level, if not higher. Well the goal should be an A, but he needs a C at least. After a long time working with the tutor the kid is now getting a C- average. Sure, he's improved, but the improvement is marginal and insignificant. Same with the Rangers, so what if they are "better off" than they were 3 years ago. They are still a joke of a team and the joke of the league. Sather has done a TERRIBLE job. Stronger, younger, and faster I believe was his quote. I have yet to see it.

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