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Ryan Smyth: The most useless player on the team

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Old
05-24-2013, 10:48 AM
  #301
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
If I were the GM of the Oilers, I would give Smyth two options:
1) retire
2) be assigned to Stockton

Don't buy him out, $-bill Smyth would love that and it would cost the Oilers a buyout that could be used on Belanger.

I respect Smyth, for what he's done, but he is finished.
ECHL isn't an option for guys on one-way deals.

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05-24-2013, 10:48 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
This thread is rather distasteful. It has me thinking the Edmonton fans suffer from entitlement issues that this thread has a good number of contributors ignoring the fact that this is a disrespectful discussion. Smyth has been one of the most honest hard working players in the league for years. I don't think this should stop anyone from being able to honestly assess his performance and discuss it publicly - that's the NHL, but this can easily be done more tactfully. It makes me want to say - where is your head at you pack of spoiled brats? I can imagine Smyth looking at this thread and simply realizing for all the warmth during the good times - what was it worth?
You know who has entitlement issues? Ryan Smyth

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05-24-2013, 10:50 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
This thread is rather distasteful. It has me thinking the Edmonton fans suffer from entitlement issues that this thread has a good number of contributors ignoring the fact that this is a disrespectful discussion. Smyth has been one of the most honest hard working players in the league for years. I don't think this should stop anyone from being able to honestly assess his performance and discuss it publicly - that's the NHL, but this can easily be done more tactfully. It makes me want to say - where is your head at you pack of spoiled brats? I can imagine Smyth looking at this thread and simply realizing for all the warmth during the good times - what was it worth?
They guy was here for a lot of BS over the years and saw what happened with guys that underperformed or wanting out or whatever, if he really thought this wouldn't happen then he was only kidding himself.

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05-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
You're right. It is distasteful. Dumping on Smyth for what was essentially a management failure (not going year-to-year on his contract) is pathetic.

I'm not a big supporter of how this fanbase tends to focus on what they're seeing rather than the machinations behind the product.

The Tambellini era was incredibly toxic. MacT will flush the turds, and Smyth will stick around to help this year.
It takes two to tango, I tend to believe that Smyth wanted two years and wouldn't back down, his negotiation skills are why he was traded in the first place.

I created this thread because of his poor play on the ice, not his contract

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05-24-2013, 11:11 AM
  #305
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Expect tact or taste online and you'll be constantly disappointed. Getting mad about it is like shouting at the ocean.

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05-24-2013, 01:08 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
It takes two to tango, I tend to believe that Smyth wanted two years and wouldn't back down, his negotiation skills are why he was traded in the first place.

I created this thread because of his poor play on the ice, not his contract
That was a management mistake, they should have let him walk last year if he wasnt willing to sign one year at a time.

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05-24-2013, 02:09 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
So because I expressed my opinion freely I have entitlement issues? Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying it is your right to speak? In that case of course it is, but this needn't be done so in a manner that is so disrespectful.

I find it interesting how people attack others instead of logically encountering opposing views. Happens quite a bit here it seems.

I'm saying it's everyone's right to say what they please within reason. Last I checked there were a handful of moderators screening out the really distasteful stuff. I'm actually impressed that the moderators here are pretty tolerant and let most people have their say. As for thinking it's ok to be HF version of Goebbels doesn't sit well.

You make it seem like Smytty is some kind of innocent bystander being stoned. From my point of view he is reaping what he sowed.

He was an decent hockey player that worked his ass off and built up a cult following among a fan base that didn't have an awful lot to cheer about for a hell of a lot of years.

He then proceeds to throw it all away over a reported $100,000 per season.

The next summer as a free agent he signs with a division rival as opposed to signing with his beloved Edmonton.

His play then starts to decline due to age and injuries or whatever the case may be. He then gets shipped to LA where his decline continues to the point he finds himself slated for third line duty the coming season. What does captain magnificent do?

I'm sure with delusions of grandeur rolling around in his head he plots his return to the one place he presumes will mindlessly worship him. He then demands a trade back to his beloved Edmonton...errrr.....maybe Calgary if Edmonton doesn't want me....errr... wellllll I'll float that out there to apply the screws to edmonton, I'll make them want me back.

So he's back in edmonton an all is well for about 30 games...

At this point everyone and his dog knows smyth is done as a useful player( oilerbear aside) and I'm thinking this is his swan song. There where a number of posts on here of people suggesting they let him walk or at most a one year contract.

The next few months see Smyth in another fight over money. He proceeds to sign for 2 years with the customary calgary rumors which has become a smyth trade mark...I'm thinking this is a Katz signing as some kind of misguided thank you for years of service and to prevent him from signing in calgary. I have a hard time believing Tamblo is that stupid.....although I have over estimated them in the past.

In any event I'd say he is getting about what is deserved considering his track record.


Last edited by KlimasLoveChild: 05-25-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old
05-24-2013, 02:42 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Gabriel6676 View Post
The distinction is small - but real. I am sure you have been in that position - where you would like to say something because so many of the elements that would make that true are present - but do not because you don't have enough information to fully justify that comment. The reason i said what i was thinking was to suggest that we consider what some of this fan base is that it would support such a thread as this. It is at the very least unnecessary to use such language as useless in relation to Smyth.

I think the reason you would refuse to see that is because you don't want to.

Your contention that Smyth is not deserving of some respect for a single contract issue (quite common in hockey and at least partly the organizations fault as well) doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Perhaps you should mention those "lots of" reasons?
My discontent for Ryan Smyth is not singly held to the contract dispute over 100,000$, like I previously said, but you're in turn refusing to see that i stated I was also disappointed in how he behaved afterwards.

Lots of those reasons have nothing to do with hockey, therefore should not be discussed here.

You're obviously here to start something, and I just find quite hypocritical that you're attacking some of us because our views and opinions don't align with yours.

Congrats, I concede this Internet fight, you're righteous way of attacking people for expressing there opinions has taught me a lesson.

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05-24-2013, 07:36 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
It takes two to tango, I tend to believe that Smyth wanted two years and wouldn't back down, his negotiation skills are why he was traded in the first place.

I created this thread because of his poor play on the ice, not his contract
Smyth had zero leverage in the negotiation as he had forced a trade home from LA, and Tambo still screwed it up. The blame is with management.

As for his poor play: I respect your right to your opinion about the quality of his play. But making a thread with such a title is very disrespectful to a guy who gave us his all, night in and night out.

I'd put the blame on the players who tuned out Krueger midway through the season, before I'd ever point a finger at Smyth.

You want some worse players? Hordichuk. Eager. Peckham. Hartikainen. Potter. Brown. Lander. Jones. Nick Schultz. Fistric.

All contributed less than Smyth this year. Are they useless? Not necessarily in the right situation, but they were all in over their heads, with little help from their line mates or partners.

Who is responsible for such failures? Management.

Management is entirely to blame for this crapshow. Ultimate failure from Lowe and Tambellini. Pointing a finger at any player whose heart was still in it and gave his best effort is an absolute waste of time, compared to how poorly the squad was assembled.


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05-25-2013, 11:23 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Smyth had zero leverage in the negotiation as he had forced a trade home from LA, and Tambo still screwed it up. The blame is with management.

As for his poor play: I respect your right to your opinion about the quality of his play. But making a thread with such a title is very disrespectful to a guy who gave us his all, night in and night out.

I'd put the blame on the players who tuned out Krueger midway through the season, before I'd ever point a finger at Smyth.

You want some worse players? Hordichuk. Eager. Peckham. Hartikainen. Potter. Brown. Lander. Jones. Nick Schultz. Fistric.

All contributed less than Smyth this year. Are they useless? Not necessarily in the right situation, but they were all in over their heads, with little help from their line mates or partners.

Who is responsible for such failures? Management.

Management is entirely to blame for this crapshow. Ultimate failure from Lowe and Tambellini. Pointing a finger at any player whose heart was still in it and gave his best effort is an absolute waste of time, compared to how poorly the squad was assembled.

Not arguing with the general gist of your post... but I would definitely take Fistric off that list. He's exactly the type of bottom pairing dman the team needs... physical and decent enough defensively to not be a liability out there.

Before someone points out that Fistric has no offensive dimension...
he obviously isn't there for his offense, BUT he also had more points than both Smid and Potter and played fewer games and fewer minutes than them.

I personally think Fistric was under utilized on the team. If the Oilers weren't so offensively devoid of talent from most of their other dmen they could have left Fistric on the bottom pairing all season, instead they had to rotate Potter/Whitney in and out trying to find some spark from their blueline. Fistric was a replacement for Sutton (and a good one).. and I don't think he deserves to be on the list of "crappy, worthless players". I hope he is back again with the Oilers next year.

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05-25-2013, 12:50 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Smyth had zero leverage in the negotiation as he had forced a trade home from LA, and Tambo still screwed it up. The blame is with management.

As for his poor play: I respect your right to your opinion about the quality of his play. But making a thread with such a title is very disrespectful to a guy who gave us his all, night in and night out.

I'd put the blame on the players who tuned out Krueger midway through the season, before I'd ever point a finger at Smyth.

You want some worse players? Hordichuk. Eager. Peckham. Hartikainen. Potter. Brown. Lander. Jones. Nick Schultz. Fistric.

All contributed less than Smyth this year. Are they useless? Not necessarily in the right situation, but they were all in over their heads, with little help from their line mates or partners.

Who is responsible for such failures? Management.

Management is entirely to blame for this crapshow. Ultimate failure from Lowe and Tambellini. Pointing a finger at any player whose heart was still in it and gave his best effort is an absolute waste of time, compared to how poorly the squad was assembled.

A number of years ago he did. He hasn't played one of these games since December of last year. He refuses to acknowledge he's just not a very good hockey player anymore and LA was smart to get rid of him for Colin Fraser. People need to look past their personal bias of this guy and see that he's not as golden as people think he is. He let $100,000 prevent him from staying in Edmonton and then went where the money was in the off-season instead of taking a paycut to remain with his childhood team.

I'm sorry, but Ryan Smyth has few redeeming qualities. Management could have felt pressure from the fans to keep him an extra year because he's a fan favourite. In hindsight not even trading for him would've likely been the best option.

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05-25-2013, 03:58 PM
  #312
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Not arguing with the general gist of your post... but I would definitely take Fistric off that list. He's exactly the type of bottom pairing dman the team needs... physical and decent enough defensively to not be a liability out there.

Before someone points out that Fistric has no offensive dimension...
he obviously isn't there for his offense, BUT he also had more points than both Smid and Potter and played fewer games and fewer minutes than them.

I personally think Fistric was under utilized on the team. If the Oilers weren't so offensively devoid of talent from most of their other dmen they could have left Fistric on the bottom pairing all season, instead they had to rotate Potter/Whitney in and out trying to find some spark from their blueline. Fistric was a replacement for Sutton (and a good one).. and I don't think he deserves to be on the list of "crappy, worthless players". I hope he is back again with the Oilers next year.
That ISN'T a list of worthless, crappy players. I only said that I consider them worse than Smyth. And I don't consider Smyth to be worthless and crappy. I take issue with the classlessness of the thread title.

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05-26-2013, 06:09 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
That ISN'T a list of worthless, crappy players. I only said that I consider them worse than Smyth. And I don't consider Smyth to be worthless and crappy. I take issue with the classlessness of the thread title.
The thread title might be hyperbole, but it's a result of the frustration we all feel watching Smyth.

Defensive mishaps, slow skating, lazy slapshots, undisciplined penalties. He can be an effective checker, but because he's a step behind, the play dies. When I watched him, it looked like he knew where he was supposed to be, but he wasn't there in time.

He's at his best when he's around the net, but how many of his patented deflections did we see this season? How many greasy rebound goals?

His decline has certainly been gradual, but we will always compare the Smyth we have to the Smyth we had. He has a much higher standard to live up to than the players who you thought were less effective.

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05-26-2013, 11:28 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
That ISN'T a list of worthless, crappy players. I only said that I consider them worse than Smyth. And I don't consider Smyth to be worthless and crappy. I take issue with the classlessness of the thread title.



This. In spades.
Obviously the game has passed Smytty by, or at the very least the lockout forced him to sit for too long. Either way to talk about a guy that has generally been a good Oiler this way is classless. He played in the Nhl for many many years and worked his butt off for every one of those years. He could still skate circles around us scrubs on this board so lets keep it in perspective shall we? If nothing else he deserves a little respect for having had a great career. I think it is fine to suggest he should retire but lets keep it classy for a change,

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05-26-2013, 11:55 PM
  #315
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[/B]


This. In spades.
Obviously the game has passed Smytty by, or at the very least the lockout forced him to sit for too long. Either way to talk about a guy that has generally been a good Oiler this way is classless. He played in the Nhl for many many years and worked his butt off for every one of those years. He could still skate circles around us scrubs on this board so lets keep it in perspective shall we? If nothing else he deserves a little respect for having had a great career. I think it is fine to suggest he should retire but lets keep it classy for a change,

Bwhahahaha.....so the measuring stick of a quality NHL player is whether or not he is better then a HF poster. I've heard it all now. The Smyth apologists are really digging deep now. Way to put things into perspective.

I don't think anyone here would deny he was a quality player at one time. It's just quite clear that time was in the distant past and he could really save face by packing it in now. Have you ever heard a pro athlete when retiring mention that he didn't want to be that guy who tried to hang on too long. Well, Smyth is that guy at the moment.

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05-27-2013, 12:03 AM
  #316
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Bwhahahaha.....so the measuring stick of a quality NHL player is whether or not he is better then a HF poster. I've heard it all now. The Smyth apologists are really digging deep now. Way to put things into perspective.

I don't think anyone here would deny he was a quality player at one time. It's just quite clear that time was in the distant past and he could really save face by packing it in now. Have you ever heard a pro athlete when retiring mention that he didn't want to be that guy who tried to hang on too long. Well, Smyth is that guy at the moment.
Bingo.

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05-27-2013, 12:56 AM
  #317
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And this year he is 76th with 13 points. What's your point? http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...rt=points&pg=3

Is the NHL lying?
Nope he had 13. that would be mid 3rd line for LW.
For 24 games of play with Eager, Petrell and Brown he had 2 points.
For 23 games of play he had 11 points with the rest of the players. .48 EVPPG.
By your responce you think Eager, Petrell, Brown have the same offensive ability as Hall, RNH, Eberle.
Do you think they are the same?
i do not! The production difference shows that.
It is ok that you think they are.
But those three will be gone and Smyth will be playing with the rest.
I will take 80 games at the .48 EVPPG with the others still around.
heck 47 Gm without the EPB he is 22-23EVP 16th to 21 for LW.

It is strange the number of people willing to take the all players are the same stand
rather then Say "yes those three dragged him down."

Ah! opinion and pride over reality!


Last edited by oilerbear: 05-27-2013 at 01:03 AM.
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05-27-2013, 01:12 AM
  #318
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Nope he had 13. that would be mid 3rd line for LW.
For 24 games of play with Eager, Petrell and Brown he had 2 points.
For 23 games of play he had 11 points with the rest of the players. .48 EVPPG.
By your responce you think Eager, Petrell, Brown have the same offensive ability as Hall, RNH, Eberle.
Do you think they are the same?
i do not! The production difference shows that.
It is ok that you think they are.
But those three will be gone and Smyth will be playing with the rest.
I will take 80 games at the .48 EVPPG with the others still around.
heck 47 Gm without the EPB he is 22-23EVP 16th to 21 for LW.

It is strange the number of people willing to take the all players are the same stand
rather then Say "yes those three dragged him down."

Ah! opinion and pride over reality!
You want to make a case for Smyth? Show how other players were better with him than without him on their line. Not how he was better playing with certain players as opposed to other players.

So, Smyth's production was worse playing with Brown/Petrell/etc? Was their's better playing with him.

You're trying to pawn off his decline on others, when the fact is that he just isn't what he used to be, which was a decent player.

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05-27-2013, 07:08 AM
  #319
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Tambellini was actually pretty good with contracts but the Smyth deal wasa huge mistake. I never understood why they would offer him a tow year deal. Smyth needed the Oilers a lot more than the Oilers needed him. A one year deal for any marginal player over 35 should be team policy.


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05-27-2013, 07:14 AM
  #320
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Nope he had 13. that would be mid 3rd line for LW.
For 24 games of play with Eager, Petrell and Brown he had 2 points.
For 23 games of play he had 11 points with the rest of the players. .48 EVPPG.
By your responce you think Eager, Petrell, Brown have the same offensive ability as Hall, RNH, Eberle.
Do you think they are the same?
i do not! The production difference shows that.
It is ok that you think they are.
But those three will be gone and Smyth will be playing with the rest.
I will take 80 games at the .48 EVPPG with the others still around.
heck 47 Gm without the EPB he is 22-23EVP 16th to 21 for LW.

It is strange the number of people willing to take the all players are the same stand
rather then Say "yes those three dragged him down."

Ah! opinion and pride over reality!
The problem with this analysis is that Smyth has no business playing with these top guys anymore.

I have no doubt that if the team lines Smyth up as the LW with Nuge and Eberle next year that he will get some points. But as Kurri says, is Smyth adding to the line or feasting off of the skills of the better players while at the same time reducing their effectiveness? It would seem clear that the latter is more accurate.

At this point if Smyth is on the roster it should be for spot duty between dates in the pb. If that is not the case, then the bottom 6 will be no better than it was last year.

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05-27-2013, 09:09 AM
  #321
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Tambellini was actually pretty could with contracts but the Smyth deal wasa huge mistake. I never understood why they would offer him a tow year deal. Smyth needed the Oilers a lot more than the Oilers needed him. A one year deal for any marginal player over 35 should be team policy.
Strudwick brought as much or more and he was only done year by year. Major mistake for the team. If, as some are apparently suggesting, Smyth plays anywhere other then the 4th line, the team deserves to fail.

Ryan Smyth is Done. Time to Realize this.

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05-27-2013, 11:25 AM
  #322
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Tambellini was actually pretty could with contracts but the Smyth deal wasa huge mistake. I never understood why they would offer him a tow year deal. Smyth needed the Oilers a lot more than the Oilers needed him. A one year deal for any marginal player over 35 should be team policy.
I wonder how much influence Lowe had with the contract.

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05-27-2013, 01:47 PM
  #323
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Strudwick brought as much or more and he was only done year by year. Major mistake for the team. If, as some are apparently suggesting, Smyth plays anywhere other then the 4th line, the team deserves to fail.

Ryan Smyth is Done. Time to Realize this.
If that's the case, then where's the criticism for Hartikainen, Smithson, Lander or Vandevelde?

Smyth scored 13 points, was -5 in 47 games. Half the time, he was playing out of position at centre, which he has never played before with any regularity.

Heir apparent Teemu Hartikainen scored a mere 3 pts, was a worse -8 in 23 games and he didn't even play on the PK, or play out of position at centre.

Jerred Smithson, an actual centre, scored 1 pt, was plus 0, in 10 games.

Prospect Anton Lander scored 1 pt, was -4 in 11 games.

AHL centre Chris Vandevelde scored 0 pts, was -3 in 11 games.

By this comparison, Smyth was no where near the "most useless player" on the roster - an utter classless description by the OP, which says more about the OP than it does about Smyth.


Last edited by Master Lok: 05-27-2013 at 07:46 PM. Reason: commenting directed on OP, not JJ.
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05-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #324
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For those of you bringing up guys like Eager, Belanger, Petrell, Smithson, and Jones. The fact that these guys suck doesn't make Ryan Smyth a better player. The entire bottom 6 needs a do-over and they need to be jettisoned along with Smyth. Guys like Lander and Hartikainen were underwhelming as well, but keep in mind that they're 21 and 22 respectively, while Smyth is well north of 35. Which of these players do you think is more likely to improve or have a long term role with this team? I'd much rather have Hartikainen killing plays and knowing what to work on when he goes back to the AHL than have Smyth killing plays and taking no responsibility for his terrible play.

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05-27-2013, 03:38 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
For those of you bringing up guys like Eager, Belanger, Petrell, Smithson, and Jones. The fact that these guys suck doesn't make Ryan Smyth a better player. The entire bottom 6 needs a do-over and they need to be jettisoned along with Smyth. Guys like Lander and Hartikainen were underwhelming as well, but keep in mind that they're 21 and 22 respectively, while Smyth is well north of 35. Which of these players do you think is more likely to improve or have a long term role with this team? I'd much rather have Hartikainen killing plays and knowing what to work on when he goes back to the AHL than have Smyth killing plays and taking no responsibility for his terrible play.
Remember how Colin Fraser sucked so much here? Look how good he fits in with LA.

How many of these guys would fit in with teams that have good depth?

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