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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 5)

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Old
05-24-2013, 09:30 AM
  #26
Agnostic
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Price has 310 regular season games under his belt. Of the last 10 Stanley Cup winning goaltenders 6 had already won a cup before that time. The average number of games played before winning their first Stanley cup is 249 amongst this group of 10.


Tm Goalie year # games played before first cup

LA Quick 2012 249
BOS thomas 2011 321
CHI Niemi 2010 42
Pit Fleury 2009 235
Det Osgood 2008 116
ana Giguere 2007 353
Car Ward 2006 28
TB khabibulin 2004 476
NJ Brodeur 2003 91
Det Hasek 2002 581

Experience and accomplishment tells the story. Price is nothing special.

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05-24-2013, 10:03 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Playoff Accomplishments of Goalies at the time they reached 300 games played in NHL.
Price is the only player in the group not to have 10 or more wins in the playoffs. Boucher, Bryzgalov, Nabokov, Theodore all more successful. Yeah but he's only 25, I'll be glad to show this chart again next year when Price is Only 26


Fleury 38-24 (cup)
J.S. Giguere 31-13 (Cup)
Ward 23-18 ( 6 series wins, Cup)
Miller 22-18 (4 series wins)
Nabokov 18-15 (3 series wins)
Brodeur 31-23 (Cup)
Bryzgalov 12-9 (1 series win)
Anderson 10-11 (1 series win)
Lundqvist 14-16 (2 series wins)
Khabibhulin 10-13
Theodore 11-15 (1 series)
Boucher 21-18 (3 series wins)
Hedberg 10-12 (2 series wins)
Kiprusoff 23-24 (3 series wins)



Price 9-17 (1 series win)

Experience and accomplishment tells the story. Price is nothing special.
Your stats are nothing special. I didn't know that winning a game or a series for that matter is reliant entirely on the goaltending...

Wow, Craig Anderson has 1 more game win and same amount of series wins as Price, he must be the better goalie...LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Price has 310 regular season games under his belt. Of the last 10 Stanley Cup winning goaltenders 6 had already won a cup before that time. The average number of games played before winning their first Stanley cup is 249 amongst this group of 10.


Tm Goalie year # games played before first cup

LA Quick 2012 249
BOS thomas 2011 321
CHI Niemi 2010 42
Pit Fleury 2009 235
Det Osgood 2008 116
ana Giguere 2007 353
Car Ward 2006 28
TB khabibulin 2004 476
NJ Brodeur 2003 91
Det Hasek 2002 581

Experience and accomplishment tells the story. Price is nothing special.
Prove to me that any of these are true:

2012 Los Angeles Kings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2011 Boston Bruins = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2010 Chicago Blackhawks = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2009 Pittsburgh Penguins = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2008 Detroit Red Wings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2007 Anaheim Ducks = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2006 Carolina Hurricanes = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2004 Tampa Bay Lightning = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2003 New Jersey Devils = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2002 Detroit Red Wings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens

Seeing how none of those statements are correct, your argument is invalid.

Thanks for stopping by.

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05-24-2013, 10:16 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Your stats are nothing special. I didn't know that winning a game or a series for that matter is reliant entirely on the goaltending...

Wow, Craig Anderson has 1 more game win and same amount of series wins as Price, he must be the better goalie...LOL



Prove to me that any of these are true:

2012 Los Angeles Kings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2011 Boston Bruins = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2010 Chicago Blackhawks = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2009 Pittsburgh Penguins = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2008 Detroit Red Wings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2007 Anaheim Ducks = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2006 Carolina Hurricanes = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2004 Tampa Bay Lightning = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2003 New Jersey Devils = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2002 Detroit Red Wings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens

Seeing how none of those statements are correct, your argument is invalid.

Thanks for stopping by.
I was greatly anticipating your puerile cherry picking response. Let me help you . Other , seemingly lesser goaltenders get better results than Price.

Those posts weren't part of an argument aimed at you or Lafleurs Guy, gawd knows you'll still be making excuses 3 years after Price is traded, that information was for the posters who GET IT.

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05-24-2013, 10:30 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I was greatly anticipating your puerile cherry picking response. Let me help you . Other , seemingly lesser goaltenders get better results than Price.

Those posts weren't part of an argument aimed at you or Lafleurs Guy, gawd knows you'll still be making excuses 3 years after Price is traded, that information was for the posters who GET IT.
Other, seemingly lesser goaltenders on teams like PIT, DET, ANA WOULD NOT GET BETTER RESULTS THAN PRICE on those teams.

My evidence? Look at his career stats in one of the weakest, softest, teams in the NHL: The Montreal Canadiens.

I understand those posts weren't part of an argument aimed at anyone, but when you post "information" for posters who "GET IT" and provide misleading conclusions like "Experience and accomplishment tells the story. Price is nothing special", I'll call you out on it because that's exactly what your conclusions are: misleading and don't have very compelling evidence to back it up.

You list a bunch of teams/goalies who went on cup runs. Are you trying to insinuate as well that goalies like Khabibulin/Fleury/whatever lesser goalies are better than ones like Lundqvist (reigning Vezina Trophy winner) and Rinne (Vezina finalist)?

x infinity.

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05-24-2013, 10:48 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Other, seemingly lesser goaltenders on teams like PIT, DET, ANA WOULD NOT GET BETTER RESULTS THAN PRICE on those teams.

My evidence? Look at his career stats in one of the weakest, softest, teams in the NHL: The Montreal Canadiens.

I understand those posts weren't part of an argument aimed at anyone, but when you post "information" for posters who "GET IT" and provide misleading conclusions like "Experience and accomplishment tells the story. Price is nothing special", I'll call you out on it because that's exactly what your conclusions are: misleading and don't have very compelling evidence to back it up.

You list a bunch of teams/goalies who went on cup runs. Are you trying to insinuate as well that goalies like Khabibulin/Fleury/whatever lesser goalies are better than ones like Lundqvist (reigning Vezina Trophy winner) and Rinne (Vezina finalist)?

x infinity.
9-17 is the evidence

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05-24-2013, 10:50 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Okay so if I'm understanding things correctly:

2009 Pittsburgh Penguins = 2013 Montreal Canadiens?

2006 Carolina Hurricanes = 2013 Montreal Canadiens

2012 Los Angeles Kings = 2013 Montreal Canadiens

and finally

2013 Boston Bruins = 2013 Montreal Canadiens

Right... (that's if they go all the way this year)

Rask won the SC in 2011 as a BACK-UP.
The 2013 Montreal Canadiens won the division for your info but hey God forbid.

BTW Rask was only a starter in 2010 and they beat Buffalo in round 1 before the meltdown against Philly in round 2. This is only the 2nd time he has had the chance to be in nets for them in the playoffs and if they get passed the Rags that's going to be 3 playoffs series wins, Price is still stuck at 1

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05-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Your stats are nothing special. I didn't know that winning a game or a series for that matter is reliant entirely on the goaltending...

Wow, Craig Anderson has 1 more game win and same amount of series wins as Price, he must be the better goalie...LOL



Prove to me that any of these are true:

2012 Los Angeles Kings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2011 Boston Bruins = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2010 Chicago Blackhawks = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2009 Pittsburgh Penguins = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2008 Detroit Red Wings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2007 Anaheim Ducks = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2006 Carolina Hurricanes = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2004 Tampa Bay Lightning = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2003 New Jersey Devils = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens
2002 Detroit Red Wings = any of 2008-13 Montreal Canadiens

Seeing how none of those statements are correct, your argument is invalid.

Thanks for stopping by.
The Kings barely made the playoffs last year and finished in 8th before Quick yes Quick took them on his back. Enough with the excuses and again I ain't no Price basher. He needs to pick it up and big time, stop comparing teams anything is possible come playoff time if your guys can step it up and Carey has never so far in his NHL career

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05-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
9-17 is the evidence
OMG 9-17. What an argument. Give me a break. Let's put a REAL team in front of him and then start actually judging him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
The 2013 Montreal Canadiens won the division for your info but hey God forbid.

BTW Rask was only a starter in 2010 and they beat Buffalo in round 1 before the meltdown against Philly in round 2. This is only the 2nd time he has had the chance to be in nets for them in the playoffs and if they get passed the Rags that's going to be 3 playoffs series wins, Price is still stuck at 1
"The 2013 Montreal Canadiens won the division for your info but hey God forbid."*********

Notice how I put asterisks. Cuz 48-game season folks. Imagine if we continued our sucking down the stretch. But hey, it seems to many people here that we actually won the Division by 1 point and all of a sudden we're like CONTENDERS.

Notice the meltdown against Philly...I know it's not solely on Rask but I mean hey, let's just put all success/failure of team's PO series on the goalie (Agnostic i'm talking to you).

Price is stuck at 1 cuz Price has pretty bad in front of him. Put Price on PIT, do you actually doubt he doesn't win more than 1 series in 5 years?

I can't believe the comments, arguments and evidence coming out on this thread. Oh no wait a minute, I actually can oddly enough.

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05-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
The Kings barely made the playoffs last year and finished in 8th before Quick yes Quick took them on his back. Enough with the excuses and again I ain't no Price basher. He needs to pick it up and big time, stop comparing teams anything is possible come playoff time if your guys can step it up and Carey has never so far in his NHL career
Just so this is clear, yes they barely made it. However, the season before they finished 7th. Then they added guys like Carter, Richards, Gagne, Mitchell (to name a few) throughout the offseason I believe and during the season as well. Many analysts said they underperformed during the season and that they should have been contenders. Murray is fired, Sutter is hired: cue the fire under all their ***** and they make the playoffs and win the SC.

Of course he needs to pick it up but don't make it seem like the lack of PO success for the Montreal Canadiens is on Price's shoulders only...

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05-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
OMG 9-17. What an argument. Give me a break. Let's put a REAL team in front of him and then start actually judging him.



"The 2013 Montreal Canadiens won the division for your info but hey God forbid."*********

Notice how I put asterisks. Cuz 48-game season folks. Imagine if we continued our sucking down the stretch. But hey, it seems to many people here that we actually won the Division by 1 point and all of a sudden we're like CONTENDERS.

Notice the meltdown against Philly...I know it's not solely on Rask but I mean hey, let's just put all success/failure of team's PO series on the goalie (Agnostic i'm talking to you).

Price is stuck at 1 cuz Price has pretty bad in front of him. Put Price on PIT, do you actually doubt he doesn't win more than 1 series in 5 years?

I can't believe the comments, arguments and evidence coming out on this thread. Oh no wait a minute, I actually can oddly enough.
We don't know if he would win more cause look at last year the Penguins were scoring 4-5 goals a game against the Flyers and still losing cause Fleury sucked and couldn't step it up.

Price needs to step it up, no other way to look at it

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05-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
We don't know if he would win more cause look at last year the Penguins were scoring 4-5 goals a game against the Flyers and still losing cause Fleury sucked and couldn't step it up.

Price needs to step it up, no other way to look at it
How many goals did Price let in on average per game in ANY of the series he played in (non-2010)? How many goals did the Canadiens score per game in any of the series.

Game, Set, Match.

Don't give me this "still losing cause Fleury sucked and couldn't step it up."

UHHH hello...IMO Price >>>> Fleury.

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05-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Just so this is clear, yes they barely made it. However, the season before they finished 7th. Then they added guys like Carter, Richards, Gagne, Mitchell (to name a few) throughout the offseason I believe and during the season as well. Many analysts said they underperformed during the season and that they should have been contenders. Murray is fired, Sutter is hired: cue the fire under all their ***** and they make the playoffs and win the SC.

Of course he needs to pick it up but don't make it seem like the lack of PO success for the Montreal Canadiens is on Price's shoulders only...
Yes of course Carter and Richards were nice additions but they weren't the reason. Carter had 13 points in 20 games and Richards had 15

Gagne only played in 4 games in the playoffs and didn't get anything

At the end of the day it's Quick who had a 1,41 GAA and a .946SV% going 16-4 in the playoffs!

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05-24-2013, 11:11 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
How many goals did Price let in on average per game in ANY of the series he played in (non-2010)? How many goals did the Canadiens score per game in any of the series.

Game, Set, Match.

Don't give me this "still losing cause Fleury sucked and couldn't step it up."

UHHH hello...IMO Price >>>> Fleury.
Fleury won the Cup and lost one in the finals

He has accomplished a lot more then Carey Price

Oh and yes Fleury won the Cup because of Malkin and Crosby right? The same Malkin and Crosby who Halak stopped and got the job done right? Thank You bye bye!!!

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05-24-2013, 11:18 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Yes of course Carter and Richards were nice additions but they weren't the reason. Carter had 13 points in 20 games and Richards had 15

Gagne only played in 4 games in the playoffs and didn't get anything

At the end of the day it's Quick who had a 1,41 GAA and a .946SV% going 16-4 in the playoffs!
Yes Quick was amazing and probably the "difference maker" but you can't say Carter and Richards didn't do anything. They were one of the select few point getters on a very low scoring team (due to Sutter's system).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Fleury won the Cup and lost one in the finals

He has accomplished a lot more then Carey Price

Oh and yes Fleury won the Cup because of Malkin and Crosby right? The same Malkin and Crosby who Halak stopped and got the job done right? Thank You bye bye!!!
Halak was ****ing hot and you know it. Any team runs into a hot goalie and you're not winning a single thing. I don't understand how you can use that argument alone when everyone says this about Montreal's ECF run that year...

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05-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Fleury won the Cup and lost one in the finals

He has accomplished a lot more then Carey Price

Oh and yes Fleury won the Cup because of Malkin and Crosby right? The same Malkin and Crosby who Halak stopped and got the job done right? Thank You bye bye!!!
Marc-Andre Fleury's 2010 Playoff Stats:

2.78 GAA, .891 Save %. Oh yeah stellar goaltending from the previous year's SC winning goaltender...

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05-24-2013, 11:21 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Yes Quick was amazing and probably the "difference maker" but you can't say Carter and Richards didn't do anything. They were one of the select few point getters on a very low scoring team (due to Sutter's system).



Halak was ****ing hot and you know it. Any team runs into a hot goalie and you're not winning a single thing. I don't understand how you can use that argument alone when everyone says this about Montreal's ECF run that year...
Because Price has never done it, never. How long do we keep waiting? That was my point to begin with when someone posted he is only 25- 26 this summer

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05-24-2013, 11:22 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Marc-Andre Fleury's 2010 Playoff Stats:

2.78 GAA, .891 Save %. Oh yeah stellar goaltending from the previous year's SC winning goaltender...
He sucked against the Habs not denying that but he also got the job done in Detroit the year before in game 7. Price hasn't done anything

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05-24-2013, 11:25 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Because Price has never done it, never. How long do we keep waiting? That was my point to begin with when someone posted he is only 25- 26 this summer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
He sucked against the Habs not denying that but he also got the job done in Detroit the year before in game 7. Price hasn't done anything
One more year, and then I jump onto your side. However, I am against trading assets at their lowest cost so what do you do???? I guess draft a goalie next year and wait 6 years till he's ready and ride Price out at 6.5 million (that doesn't sound good).

As for Fleury, yes he has had good games and 1 great series I remember in 09, but come on the guy is lacklustre in the POs, this year pretty much proves it, and this is supposed to be in his "prime" (27).

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05-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #44
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One more year, and then I jump onto your side. However, I am against trading assets at their lowest cost so what do you do???? I guess draft a goalie next year and wait 6 years till he's ready and ride Price out at 6.5 million (that doesn't sound good).

As for Fleury, yes he has had good games and 1 great series I remember in 09, but come on the guy is lacklustre in the POs, this year pretty much proves it, and this is supposed to be in his "prime" (27).
It's not the point of picking sides, I want Price to succeed period, not fail. I'm not one of those but I''m also not blind. At the end of the day he needs to be better, a lot better

As for Fleury he had 2 great back to back playoffs 2008 and 2009

And I think both goalies have the same problem to be honest, they're both very weak mentally

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05-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Fleury won the Cup and lost one in the finals

He has accomplished a lot more then Carey Price

Oh and yes Fleury won the Cup because of Malkin and Crosby right? The same Malkin and Crosby who Halak stopped and got the job done right? Thank You bye bye!!!
lol exactly, why would the two best players in the world be the reason PIT won the cup? Obv Fleury with his stellar 0.908 and 2.61 stole the cup that year.

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05-24-2013, 11:31 AM
  #46
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lol exactly, why would the two best players in the world be the reason PIT won the cup? Obv Fleury with his stellar 0.908 and 2.61 stole the cup that year.
Why haven't the 2 best players in the world won the cup every year since 2005?

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05-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
It's not the point of picking sides, I want Price to succeed period, not fail. I'm not one of those but I''m also not blind. At the end of the day he needs to be better, a lot better

As for Fleury he had 2 great back to back playoffs 2008 and 2009

And I think both goalies have the same problem to be honest, they're both very weak mentally
It's not about sides of wanting to Price to fail or succeed, it's of the "Do we keep Price or do we trade him".

Fleury had 1 great playoffs (remind you of somebody...) in 2008 and then his numbers in 2009 were such lacklustre, and going forward were such lacklustre stats. HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THIS? Seriously...

Quote:
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lol exactly, why would the two best players in the world be the reason PIT won the cup? Obv Fleury with his stellar 0.908 and 2.61 stole the cup that year.
This sure sums it up. Fleury is the reason the Pens won in 2009...

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05-24-2013, 11:33 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
It's not about sides of wanting to Price to fail or succeed, it's of the "Do we keep Price or do we trade him".

Fleury had 1 great playoffs (remind you of somebody...) in 2008 and then his numbers in 2009 were such lacklustre, and going forward were such lacklustre stats. HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THIS? Seriously...



This sure sums it up. Fleury is the reason the Pens won in 2009...
I'm not defending Fleury, I said he sucks. But at the end of the day he's accomplished a lot more than Price

Why are you still defending Price?

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05-24-2013, 11:34 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
It's not the point of picking sides, I want Price to succeed period, not fail. I'm not one of those but I''m also not blind. At the end of the day he needs to be better, a lot better

As for Fleury he had 2 great back to back playoffs 2008 and 2009

And I think both goalies have the same problem to be honest, they're both very weak mentally
I don't see what your argument is? Obviously with a cup Fleury has had more success in his career. Would I take him over Price? Don't think so.

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05-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I'm not defending Fleury, I said he sucks. But at the end of the day he's accomplished a lot more than Price

Why are you still defending Price?
At the end of the day, I'd accomplish more too if I was the goaltender for the Pittsburgh Penguins too.

I defend Price because he gets irrational bashing from people on this forum for things that are out of his control sometimes, like the team in front of him and how they play in front of him...something that many people on this forum ignore.

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