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Old
10-04-2006, 11:02 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Good post.

I'd like to ask though, what is the norm when it comes to clothing?
Societal norms are very complex and in fairly constant flux. This doesn't mean that they are not fairly well defined (except on what exactly constitutes the outter edges) and understood by the people comprising that society. These of course will differ from one "society" to the next. A burca was very strongly in the norm for women in Talieban Afghanistan, mini skirts not. Jeans are pretty much in the norm for a male saturday shopping at McPhee's local grocer, cocktail dresses not. It's not an "objective" reality. If everybody in north america dressed like Ribs, he would be in the norm. There is nothing "good" or "bad" about the dress in of itself (for crying out loud, we find hanging metals and plastics from the ears of women quite "normal" and putting a knotted lenghty piece of frabric around a mans neck quite "well dressed"). It's the value and imagerie that the surrounding society puts on these that give it meaning. And it does have quite powerfull meaning (people chosing to deviate also know and use this meaning). Same applies to many other types of behavior. Like I said, being wired this way has many pros and cons for humans. It is notheless the way it is.

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10-04-2006, 11:10 AM
  #52
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If a guy has off ice swagger, he MUST leave it on the ice every night.He has to play with the intensity of a Koivu, Keane or Muller, and if there's one thing Montreal fans have loved through the ages, is a hard working,intense player.They love to see a guy work hard and will reward that committment.

Ribeiro never projected seriousness of purpose.In the old days, Pete Mahovolich or Pointu had big, expansive personalities, but they performed bigtime, and no one ever doubted their desire to win, and play for the team.

The Oakland Raiders had a mystique 30 years ago, where offbeat individuals could shine, and their iconoclasm would be encouraged, if they gave it all on the field.They wanted to party, but after they won on Sunday.

The press gave Ribeiro more slack than anyone else, and the local boy never figured it out.They wanted him to succeed more than he did.

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10-04-2006, 11:32 AM
  #53
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Let's not blow this clothing thing out of propportion - how often did the media criticize his clothing out of the thousands of articcles written?

I used to defend Ribs three years ago when he had plenty of detractors - I said give him the benefit of the doubt, and that if he really wants to reach his potential he'll add 5-10 pounds of muscle each offseason over three or four years and get up close to 190 pounds. He had put on 15 pounds in the previous two offseasons, and it was looking like Ribs was starting to get it.

Ribs went and had a strong season offensively, but just like in junior he let it go to his head. When he returned to the NHL two seasons later he was at most five pounds heavier, and if anything a little slower.

When the media caught wind of this and his subseuent poor play, he was brought to task - his reaction? Blame everyone but himself. No..that didn't further endear him to the media...should it have?

At the end of the day no Montreal journalists are happy that Ribs is gone solely because he dressed like a juvenile. They are happy to see him gone because he had come a detriment to the team.

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10-04-2006, 11:37 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I guess jack todd didn't read that Ribeiro added as much weight as koivu did?
Koivu never had a problem with skating and weakness though.

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10-04-2006, 11:41 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Koivu never had a problem with skating and weakness though.
That has nothing to do with it... Adding 8 pds to an Ectomorph's body over 2 months can be very hard. Ribs might've trained harder than anyone in the off-season...how are we to know? Not that I mean to defend him, it's just that we have no way of knowing what any of these guys do with their time...

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10-04-2006, 12:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Societal norms are very complex and in fairly constant flux. This doesn't mean that they are not fairly well defined (except on what exactly constitutes the outter edges) and understood by the people comprising that society. These of course will differ from one "society" to the next. A burca was very strongly in the norm for women in Talieban Afghanistan, mini skirts not. Jeans are pretty much in the norm for a male saturday shopping at McPhee's local grocer, cocktail dresses not. It's not an "objective" reality. If everybody in north america dressed like Ribs, he would be in the norm. There is nothing "good" or "bad" about the dress in of itself (for crying out loud, we find hanging metals and plastics from the ears of women quite "normal" and putting a knotted lenghty piece of frabric around a mans neck quite "well dressed"). It's the value and imagerie that the surrounding society puts on these that give it meaning. And it does have quite powerfull meaning (people chosing to deviate also know and use this meaning). Same applies to many other types of behavior. Like I said, being wired this way has many pros and cons for humans. It is notheless the way it is.
Not if they're too baggy

Anyways, good post again.

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10-04-2006, 12:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Not if they're too baggy

Anyways, good post again.
Well to be fair, baggy jeans don't show off mcphee's figure.

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10-04-2006, 12:25 PM
  #58
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Well to be fair, baggy jeans don't show off mcphee's figure.
lol! no you're right, they don't quite do him justice

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10-04-2006, 12:29 PM
  #59
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lol! no you're right, they don't quite do him justice
The pink leggings do him justice, but he still draws the same stares at the super market.

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10-04-2006, 01:50 PM
  #60
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Just want to get my two cents in here...

What i think a lot of people are missing the point of is, Hockey professionals are that, professionals.

To me, it's important that you show this in your attitude whether you're off the ice or not.

And let's face it: you dont have to wear a suit and tie to look professional, but it certainly wont hurt you.

For example, if i was in charge of of hiring staff in x corporation, the truth of the matter is that today, first apparences will make or break many a deal. I dont care how smart you are, if you come in my office for a job interview dressed with baggy pants and such, you WONT look professional by the world's standards. And i wont hire you because i wont think you take me or the interview very seriously. End of story.

I used to think a lot like you a couple of years ago 417, and the real world hands you your *** more often then not if you try to be "individualistic". You gotta get with the program if you want to go somewhere.

Like McPhee said, you have to pick your battles. And the clothing one is not one i want to fight against anymore. Because let's face it: i'd rather get the job then not get the job.

If Mikey exhibited a professional attitude physically (and mentally) even with his on ice suckiness, he would of been more credible and would of probably toughed out the season.

His problem always has been and probably always will be him thinking he's the **** and deserves to be where he is.

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10-04-2006, 02:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by The n00b King View Post
Just want to get my two cents in here...

What i think a lot of people are missing the point of is, Hockey professionals are that, professionals.

To me, it's important that you show this in your attitude whether you're off the ice or not.

And let's face it: you dont have to wear a suit and tie to look professional, but it certainly wont hurt you.

For example, if i was in charge of of hiring staff in x corporation, the truth of the matter is that today, first apparences will make or break many a deal. I dont care how smart you are, if you come in my office for a job interview dressed with baggy pants and such, you WONT look professional by the world's standards. And i wont hire you because i wont think you take me or the interview very seriously. End of story.

I used to think a lot like you a couple of years ago 417, and the real world hands you your *** more often then not if you try to be "individualistic". You gotta get with the program if you want to go somewhere.
Like McPhee said, you have to pick your battles. And the clothing one is not one i want to fight against anymore. Because let's face it: i'd rather get the job then not get the job.

If Mikey exhibited a professional attitude physically (and mentally) even with his on ice suckiness, he would of been more credible and would of probably toughed out the season.

His problem always has been and probably always will be him thinking he's the **** and deserves to be where he is.
Look I work for the govt. I know how the 'real' world works, i'm not talking about clothing when you're going for a job interview, obviously you're going to wear a suit and tie and look sharp for the part.

I'm talking about environments where the dress code is a casual one or when there's no dress code at all. Alot of people in the media and fans criticized Ribeiro for the way he dressed off the ice in non team functional events, he'd wear baggy pants or tilt his hat to the side a little. But that was all in a casual environment, my casual wear can be quite different than somebody elses is, who's to say which one is more proper?

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10-04-2006, 02:08 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider View Post
If a guy has off ice swagger, he MUST leave it on the ice every night.He has to play with the intensity of a Koivu, Keane or Muller, and if there's one thing Montreal fans have loved through the ages, is a hard working,intense player.They love to see a guy work hard and will reward that committment.

Ribeiro never projected seriousness of purpose.In the old days, Pete Mahovolich or Pointu had big, expansive personalities, but they performed bigtime, and no one ever doubted their desire to win, and play for the team.

The Oakland Raiders had a mystique 30 years ago, where offbeat individuals could shine, and their iconoclasm would be encouraged, if they gave it all on the field.They wanted to party, but after they won on Sunday.

The press gave Ribeiro more slack than anyone else, and the local boy never figured it out.They wanted him to succeed more than he did.
awesome post

Hit the nail on the head IMO.

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Old
10-04-2006, 04:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Look I work for the govt. I know how the 'real' world works, i'm not talking about clothing when you're going for a job interview, obviously you're going to wear a suit and tie and look sharp for the part.

I'm talking about environments where the dress code is a casual one or when there's no dress code at all. Alot of people in the media and fans criticized Ribeiro for the way he dressed off the ice in non team functional events, he'd wear baggy pants or tilt his hat to the side a little. But that was all in a casual environment, my casual wear can be quite different than somebody elses is, who's to say which one is more proper?

well here's a hint...dressing like a "gansta" will automatically label you as a trouble maker. why? blame guys like 50 cents and co. incredibly bad image if you tell me and it reflects on people. so when they see someone dressing up like that...well call it a stereotype. you may not like it, but that's just how the world rolls. Life's not fair. Deal with it.

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10-04-2006, 04:32 PM
  #64
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well here's a hint...dressing like a "gansta" will automatically label you as a trouble maker. why? blame guys like 50 cents and co. incredibly bad image if you tell me and it reflects on people. so when they see someone dressing up like that...well call it a stereotype. you may not like it, but that's just how the world rolls. Life's not fair. Deal with it.

and noob king who are you stereotyping......

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10-04-2006, 06:07 PM
  #65
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and noob king who are you stereotyping......
if i knew what you meant by that, i would try to respond with something...

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10-04-2006, 06:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by The n00b King View Post
if i knew what you meant by that, i would try to respond with something...
well with the jewel perched upon your melon you must be trying to emulate someone.....no?

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10-04-2006, 06:45 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't know if you heard the exchange about Tim Raines. He admitted after a season in the early 80's to having a serious issue with it. He did his mea culpas, he did his re-hab, showed up the next year ready to go to work.

During an early season slump, Melnick got calls about Raines being back into the life. Like Gagnon said, Raines would have had to be at 3 bars at the same time for any of this to be true. Hangers on, people that partied with the guy were no longer welcome in his social circle so they had an ax to grind. Some just disliked the guy. Ribs portrayed an image, I get 417's point, but the guy wanted to be seen in a certain light. He wanted to be a Mtl rockstar and maybe didn't understand the price you pay to earn it.

Seb, like most stories, both pov's have some truth to them. I think #71 has some maturity issues, I also think many are obsessed with tearing someone down.
I missed some of the Tim Raines stuff but I did get Gagnon point that some e-mails are just fabrication from some loons. Which is evident to anyone who spends a little time on the net. It's litter with people with issues.

I get what you saying and it is probably a good thing for Mike to be away from the temptation to seek fame outside the rink. I bet that gives Ribs a boost of maturity that translate on a better work ethic.

Personally I'm getting sick of the over exposer. I like the habs alot, but could they just stick to the facts. For example Pierre Mcguire which I tend to disagree with most of the time but the guy talks hockey and nothing else. ANd he does it with professionalism. ALthough he will go WWE on us once in a while but that's to get the casual american fans going (and canadian, let's face it).

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10-05-2006, 08:05 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by The n00b King View Post
well here's a hint...dressing like a "gansta" will automatically label you as a trouble maker. why? blame guys like 50 cents and co. incredibly bad image if you tell me and it reflects on people. so when they see someone dressing up like that...well call it a stereotype. you may not like it, but that's just how the world rolls. Life's not fair. Deal with it.
Deal with what? Shortsighted, biggoted people who generalize people based on the image portrayed by some entertainer?

I deal with that everyday, so save me the speech.

You say blame 50 cent, well what if 50 cent wore country casual clothing, would country casual clothing then be considered 'gangsta' as you put it?

It's just a style of clothing like all the other one's. You choose to associate the style of clothing, with the lifestyle a guy like 50 cent portrays. The same way you choose not to associate the style of clothing for others. Like I mentionned before, it's all about perception. All you're doing is selective stereotyping as you see it fit.

I heard the guy that shot up the Amish school was wearing jeans and a plad shirt, does that mean that everyone who wears jeans and a plad shirt should be considered a nutbag????

Judge a person by their actions, not what they're wearing.

Anyways, sorry to bring this thread up again, but I had to respond cause your post was so dumb and I didn't get a chance to read it until this morning.

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10-05-2006, 08:37 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Deal with what? Shortsighted, biggoted people who generalize people based on the image portrayed by some entertainer?

I deal with that everyday, so save me the speech.

You say blame 50 cent, well what if 50 cent wore country casual clothing, would country casual clothing then be considered 'gangsta' as you put it?

It's just a style of clothing like all the other one's. You choose to associate the style of clothing, with the lifestyle a guy like 50 cent portrays. The same way you choose not to associate the style of clothing for others. Like I mentionned before, it's all about perception. All you're doing is selective stereotyping as you see it fit.

I heard the guy that shot up the Amish school was wearing jeans and a plad shirt, does that mean that everyone who wears jeans and a plad shirt should be considered a nutbag????

Judge a person by their actions, not what they're wearing.

Anyways, sorry to bring this thread up again, but I had to respond cause your post was so dumb and I didn't get a chance to read it until this morning.
i disagree with u bud.

this goes deeper then that. People judge others on their appearences. quit giving me righteous attitude. you know it just as well as i do, the world doesnt give a **** about you until you prove you're worth giving a **** about. People judge. That's what we do. Fine, you dont. Good for you. But the reality is, first impressions count for a LOT. And Ribeiro, whether you like or not, dressed up as a gansta. I dont care whether he's a good guy or not. The general perception of that style of clothing is a "bad ***" someone who "dont give a ****". Blame the music industry for that image, whatever. Dont you know man? Image is everything.

I personally dont give a **** about how Ribeiro dressed up, i dont care what he did on his time. As long as he put out on the ice and acted professional. Which he didnt. He was a big baby who caved in under pressure.

And that's really the bottom line. Im sure that if he was God on the ice, nobody would care about the way he dressed. But you cant act all tough and "the ****" when you're pretty average at best.

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10-05-2006, 08:49 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
The pink leggings do him justice, but he still draws the same stares at the super market.
Pink leggings, huh?

I always thought that a pink mini-skirt with a stretched purple T-shirt which would show his belly would be more fitting.

But I guess pink leggings are OK too.

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10-05-2006, 08:53 AM
  #71
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i disagree with u bud.

this goes deeper then that. People judge others on their appearences. quit giving me righteous attitude. you know it just as well as i do, the world doesnt give a **** about you until you prove you're worth giving a **** about. People judge. That's what we do. Fine, you dont. Good for you. But the reality is, first impressions count for a LOT. And Ribeiro, whether you like or not, dressed up as a gansta. I dont care whether he's a good guy or not. The general perception of that style of clothing is a "bad ***" someone who "dont give a ****". Blame the music industry for that image, whatever. Dont you know man? Image is everything.

I personally dont give a **** about how Ribeiro dressed up, i dont care what he did on his time. As long as he put out on the ice and acted professional. Which he didnt. He was a big baby who caved in under pressure.

And that's really the bottom line. Im sure that if he was God on the ice, nobody would care about the way he dressed. But you cant act all tough and "the ****" when you're pretty average at best.
It's not about being righteous, it's about being real. Maybe it's because all my life where i'm from, I grew up with all types of different people and different styles that I think this way. If that's the case, than thank God.

I agree with you that people judge people based on their appearances, you won't get an argument from me. However, if you judging someone by their appearance based on what you see on TV, then that's where I disagree, and that's why I think you're argument is flawed.

You associate what Ribeiro's wearing as 'gangsta' but to him, that's just the way he dresses, what's so hard to understand about that?

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10-05-2006, 09:00 AM
  #72
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It's not about being righteous, it's about being real. Maybe it's because all my life where i'm from, I grew up with all types of different people and different styles that I think this way. If that's the case, than thank God.

I agree with you that people judge people based on their appearances, you won't get an argument from me. However, if you judging someone by their appearance based on what you see on TV, then that's where I disagree, and that's why I think you're argument is flawed.

You associate what Ribeiro's wearing as 'gangsta' but to him, that's just the way he dresses, what's so hard to understand about that?

Look, i know this because i too was judged based on the way i dressed and was even eventually laid off because of it. Nevermind the fact that i was incredibly efficient at my job and that my boss cried when i got laid off, the reality is that people will judge you from the way you present yourself.

The press certainly did not help his cause all that much either. That and the 3 amigos story.

His attitude remained his biggest problem and people just rubbed it in with his dress code. The fact that you can look beyond that is commending, unfortunately not eveyone else has this kind of open-mindedness.

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10-05-2006, 09:14 AM
  #73
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Look, i know this because i too was judged based on the way i dressed and was even eventually laid off because of it. Nevermind the fact that i was incredibly efficient at my job and that my boss cried when i got laid off, the reality is that people will judge you from the way you present yourself.
The press certainly did not help his cause all that much either. That and the 3 amigos story.

His attitude remained his biggest problem and people just rubbed it in with his dress code. The fact that you can look beyond that is commending, unfortunately not eveyone else has this kind of open-mindedness.
Again, i'm not talking about an environment where you're expect to 'look' a certain way. That's obviously a different situation.

Either way, you're right, his attitude was his biggest problem, and that would of remained the same no matter how he dressed. I just find the jabs at his choice of clothes weak because i'm 120% sure that if his attitude was the same and he dressed like Koivu, no one would mention his clothing. And i've got to ask myself the question as to why it's like that?

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10-05-2006, 09:30 AM
  #74
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If I was in Ottawa and suggested a bunch of posters meet for a beer, whatever perception you'd have of me would alter if I showed up in baggy jeans showing about 4 inches of plaid boxers, a sideways cap, or fill in the blanks.
some people here would pay good money to see that.
I know I'd make the drive up to Ottawa for that.

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10-05-2006, 09:39 AM
  #75
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some people here would pay good money to see that.
I know I'd make the drive up to Ottawa for that.
I don't get it, you'd drive up to Ottawa just because mcphee had raided Gros Bills' closet?

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